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Author Topic: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion  (Read 122197 times)

Offline BEP

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #450 on: May 25, 2009, 02:18:27 AM »
Will polls be allowed or just strickly technical talk?
http://www.99polls.com/poll_66574

Will people, without being rude be allowed to give critical reviews of the devices?

I am being polite as I agree if this is your thread, then you have the right to set the rules.

I know a cheap source of magnets if anybody wants some . The person have enough for 16 complete sets of mylow motors. He bought them prior to the revealing Mylow tapes. he is open to offers.
If anyone is interested I will get him to come here so people can contact him.

Kind Regards
Mark

I have plenty of bar magnets but I need at least 5 more sets of the channel magnets. My offer to buy was to take some expense off the backs of those who tried but gave up.

I'll wait a few days for folks to shed their grief then I'll buy from a wholesaler.

Also needed are 4 more Al plattens. I can handle the bearing supports if folks wish to keep that part.

As far as posting goes that will be up to @Wattsup. Typical builder's threads are for builders. Before I provide a negative critique for another's experiment or ask them to perform an experiment for me I'll post mine for them to do likewise. Otherwise I'll just shut up.

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #450 on: May 25, 2009, 02:18:27 AM »

Offline nyctuber

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #451 on: May 25, 2009, 02:53:26 AM »

Offline Bobbotov

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #452 on: May 25, 2009, 03:08:04 AM »
Sterling seems to have a propensity for not taking responsibility for his actions. He releases Mylow's phone call to him which he felt was private but gives out it out to some others and apparently doesn't tell them to keep it under wraps and is now chastising those people?

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #452 on: May 25, 2009, 03:08:04 AM »
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Offline nyctuber

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #453 on: May 25, 2009, 03:16:38 AM »
Sterling seems to have a propensity for not taking responsibility for his actions. He releases Mylow's phone call to him which he felt was private but gives out it out to some others and apparently doesn't tell them to keep it under wraps and is now chastising those people?

He's all over the place. The moral of the story is probably that no one really needs Sterling Allan to help them figure out if an OU device is real. Either someone gets it validated on their own, or they don't.

I don't know exactly how he operates, but I'm pretty sure he tries to set up a 30% profit share arrangement as soon as possible from things I've read. It doesn't really seem constructive.

Offline wattsup

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #454 on: May 25, 2009, 07:28:01 AM »
Unfortunately Sterling has no bearing on the builders and what he does can be discussed elsewhere. Geez we have threads open to cater to your every need because here at overunity.com, WE AIM TO PLEASE.

Let's keep this thread on the builds, magnet theory, observations of function. let's learn what a magnet really is, something I feel this whole escapade has been trying to steer us away from. Well the more you steer away, the more reason you give to look further. Sorrrrrry.

Here is something I have learned in the last few days about magnets. May be mundane cause I did not do any googling on it.

Non-Symmetry versus Symmetry of Magnets

I now realize that magnets can be forced to do things, like a stubborn mule that you have to whip to get it going. Put it in a stator case and spin a rotor in it via some wind and they will produce juice. Or, by simply letting them be what they really are. Rotational fields. Magnets are rotational fields. The field goes out and back. While they do this they provide angled directionality that can only be understood by another magnet. This is the same directionality that makes two magnets, when let loose in proximity, one called Left and one called Right, to both turn while they are approaching each other to connect at their random polarities, Either LN to RS, or LS to RN. What made them do this "movement"? Do you see the speed, the precision, the exactitude at impact being so perfectly aligned when connected together, all in one multi-fraction of a second. Shit. No wonder some do not want us to know about magnets.

If the directionality is PERFECT, not symmetrical because symmetry kills the individual magnet and turns it into a part of a whole magnetic conjunction with other magnets in the vicinity. Symmetry gives the magnets static circularity but non-symmetry gives dynamic directionality since it cannot move in circles. If you are moving, and you are not moving in a circle, then you have to be directional and move continuously somewhere else. Mylow just takes that directionality and puts it back into a circle, but not enough to make it a circle. This is what the Mylow wheel is doing.

As if the leading field opens a void and the others fall into and out of it, something like the Start Ship Enterprise Warp Speed Propulsion worked with a magnetic field developed in front of the ship that the ship falls into and forward continuously. Can't explain it any better then that at this stage.

Maybe this. When two magnets are stuck together, thy are in symmetry. Throw a bunch of loose magnets on the floor and see what happens. The non-symmetric randomness of the thrown magnets will cause directionality in the magnets to the other magnets. Directionality means physical movement can be achieved by the magnets themselves and they all turn and move until they are all in symmetry again. A uniform field. They can't help themselves. It's automatic. So what if you keep the condition always one step away from symmetry? Or you can dive in and out of symmetry. Again the almost crowning of the rotors, plus the final crowning connected from half the stator and uncrowning from the other half of the stator happening is close succession.

Just a theory on magnets.

Oh, and they are very relaxing, expect when they decide to achieve symmetry. Then they snap and startle the hell out of when you least expect them. lol

When I get my bar magnets, I want to work on a clipping system that will enable me to position the rotors just as easily as with my neos. Otherwise I feel the gluing will be bad for trying so many testing parameters. Does anyone have any ideas on this or is using something  now that could help?

@markdansie

I would be interested in channel magnets.

Added:

@Boiling magnets off of DC motor chassis.

Did this today and got two nice magnets. Boiled them for a good 15 - 20 minutes by completely submerging the whole casing. I would turn them once in a while then put it in the sink and hit one end downwards with a hammer and a big spark plug remover socket. But did not work. I re-boiled it. My wife recommended I then put it in ice water so I took some cold water and put some ice in it. Took the casing put it into the cold water and hit it again with the hammer and socket and bingo, they popped off one by one. Enjoy.

Now to see how to change the polarity. Wind some good size wire around the center and hit both leads onto one or two 12vdc batteries or more. Maybe a big capacitor discharge.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 12:27:41 PM by wattsup »

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #454 on: May 25, 2009, 07:28:01 AM »
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Offline ellubpt

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #455 on: May 25, 2009, 08:28:37 AM »
Will polls be allowed or just strickly technical talk?
http://www.99polls.com/poll_66574

Will people, without being rude be allowed to give critical reviews of the devices?

I am being polite as I agree if this is your thread, then you have the right to set the rules.

I know a cheap source of magnets if anybody wants some . The person have enough for 16 complete sets of mylow motors. He bought them prior to the revealing Mylow tapes. he is open to offers.
If anyone is interested I will get him to come here so people can contact him.

Kind Regards
Mark
Mark, which magnets are sale? How much does he want for them?

Thanks

Offline Omega_0

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #456 on: May 25, 2009, 08:38:44 AM »
Unfortunately Sterling has no bearing on the builders and what he does can be discussed elsewhere. Geez we have threads open to cater to your every need because here at overunity.com, WE AIM TO PLEASE.

LoL...

Anyway, thats lots of magnets to play with. I can assure you its better than TV.
What I've found while playing with my Alu wheel and 36 block magnets, is that its VERY EASY to get the wheel turn by 355 or so degrees, but it never completes the turn, it just refuses. No matter how many magnets you add or how many different ways you arrange them. Even tried stators of different shapes and combinations of magnets.

It will become slower if you add more magnets, finally when you complete the circle, it just sits there on any random sticky. I guess everyone here knows that. This setup is nothing different.

Its also easy to build a 'gate'. You can arrange magnets in many ways to get a gate, where the stator prefers one direction to the other. However the energy in = energy out, even if it doesn't appear so to your eyes.

The secret is not in the arrangement or spacing or such, because it seems that even though the magnetic field is a complex thing, and not all is taught in text books about it, it surely is conservative, which means the integral of forces around a closed path adds to zero. Thats why you won't get any work out of a static arrangement of magnets.

That of course doesn't mean that there are no other ways to get to the ZPE, (dynamic stator is one possibility) lets see.....

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #456 on: May 25, 2009, 08:38:44 AM »
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Offline robbie47

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #457 on: May 25, 2009, 09:39:30 AM »
When I get my bar magnets, I want to work on a clipping system that will enable me to position the rotors just as easily as with my neos. Otherwise I feel the gluing will be bad for trying so many testing parameters. Does anyone have any ideas on this or is using something  now that could help?

Hey Wattsup, good to see you keeping up this thread, cleaning it and allow for continuation.

As for clipping the rotor magnets, for each rotor position I use 2 magnets that have the rotor plate in between. When I look to your pictures you did the same with neo's. This is a very convenient way to move rotor magnets around.
Another method may be using double sided sticking tape.
But for weaker magnets plastic clips will work best, I agree. Best options for that is a camping shop where they sell table clips to prevent table cloth to be blown off the table.

In parallel I am simulating this motor with FEMM, a free available 2D simulation program.
Exercising with that learns me a lot about what the effect of moving magnets around in this setup is. When time allows I'll share some of these later on if sufficient interest exists.
I have no expectations to find the clue of this setup by simulations however, its just helping to understand how magnet basics work and help me in the right directions to understand how Mylows adjustment method works.


« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 10:09:02 AM by robbie47 »

Offline Omega_0

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #458 on: May 25, 2009, 02:19:41 PM »
Some vizimag captures ...

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #458 on: May 25, 2009, 02:19:41 PM »
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Offline robbie47

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #459 on: May 25, 2009, 04:42:35 PM »
Nice pictures Omega, I was not aware of the existence of Vizimag.

FYI I am concentrating on the forces that occur and also the Magnetic field changes in the aluminum to judge the eddy current effects.
I use FEMM to calculate the forces, cogging points and field strengths and process them using Excel
« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 05:39:36 PM by robbie47 »

Offline wattsup

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #460 on: May 25, 2009, 06:31:27 PM »
@Omega_0

Yep, thanks for these magnet graphics. You can see the 6 rotors are forming a crown although I don't think the software thinks of it is such a away. Then the stator riding on top. Really neat. I just don't know how reliable this would be to do preliminary computer simulations before considering a rotor placement strategy, but it is nice to see this in graphic form.

@robbie47

Thanks for your suggestions of rotor mag clips. I will look for these clip you talk about. as for placing neos under the bar magnets, I was thinking of this also but realize the bar magnets will have much less ability to hold in place through a 1/4" thick alu disk, compared to the three noes stacks I have held by one neo underneath. But of course I will try it when I get my bar magnets. Also I wold like the bar magnets test to be as equal to Mylows as possible so adding magnets underneath may skew the results.

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #460 on: May 25, 2009, 06:31:27 PM »
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Offline nyctuber

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #461 on: May 25, 2009, 06:33:58 PM »
Some vizimag captures ...

According to Howard Johnson, the images do not show the proper magnetic field around the magnets due to iron filings becoming tiny magnets (I assume the program is based on that) He seems to have proved the theory with his shaded pole magnetic gate. I'm not sure though.

Offline Omega_0

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #462 on: May 25, 2009, 07:29:07 PM »
robbie47,
Found anything interesting ?
Vizimag is not free, but produces pretty pictures. Free trial is here btw : http://www.vizimag.com/vizimagtr318.zip

nyctuber,
Thats right, I also don't think there are any simulators that model HJ's version of fields. If you see his plots, the fields of a bar magnet do look like two 'conventional' magnets one on top of the other, with asymmetrical fields. I will try to picture this in vizimag or FEMM, just to see...

wattsup,
I forgot to say that the one with 6 rotors has a iron permeability plate below it. Alu has a permeability of 1 (same as air), so the pic doesn't really depict the real situation (I was just playing with that s/w).
I'm also trying different arrangements by sticking the rotors with Alu plate in between, it may affect things a little bit, but in my experience both glued and doubled rotor versions basically produce the same effect (i.e. fail !)

Now we should note that Mylow's design is non-working and we all are back to the drawing board. Exact replica of his design will produce an exact fail... ;)

Offline Omega_0

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #463 on: May 25, 2009, 10:58:01 PM »
So here are some simulations of simulation of HJ version of fields.
One can approximate the field of an HJ magnet using two conventional magnets in repulsion mode.
HJ-Simple : Shows just two such magnets, all vortexes are equal.
HJ-Approx1: Shows what an offset can do, getting closer.
HJ-Approx2: Shows that thin magnets look better.
HJ-Approx3: Shows that a slightly tapered cross section will more accurately render an HJ field.

If these two magnets are used as one in the simulation s/w, we can have the HJ effect and it may produce some interesting results (like OU for example ;) )

However, these are just my ideas nothing concrete here. Hope they will be useful for some.

Offline markdansie

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Re: MylowHJ Replication - Discussion
« Reply #464 on: May 26, 2009, 02:50:31 AM »
Have a look at the last photo

http://touko.cjb.net/mylow/








 

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