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Author Topic: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant  (Read 676699 times)

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2130 on: March 03, 2010, 07:45:53 PM »
@Cloxxki,

Terminal velocity is beside the point. Like I said more than once, you cannot ignore the physical traversing of the entire path for a given physical time. When you do that (refuse to ignore that) you'll end up finding out that same quantity of potential energy gives rise to different quantities of kinetic energy. That's a clear violation of CoE. How this is to be used for practical purposes is an entirely different matter.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Cloxxki

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2131 on: March 03, 2010, 08:49:16 PM »
Your conclusions stem from incorrect assumptions and understandings, supported by general stubbornness and fanatic faith in OU. I really tried, with examples. As have others.

Please sketch a setup to explain this COE violation. I will take a level ruler to your sketch and show you how high your ball will roll. If you don't use your excess KE or PE for making up height, was are you using it for?
Educate me. I thought I had this all figured out when I was 12.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2132 on: March 03, 2010, 08:56:43 PM »
No sketches needed. Look at the experiments and you'll convince yourself that the ball on the longer track arrives sooner at the final point which means it has had higher velocity while traversing the path from beginning to end than the other ball. Having higher velocity only means that it had higher kinetic energy overall. Different value of kinetic energy from the same potential energy is a violation of CoE. That's not an assumption but an experimental fact.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2132 on: March 03, 2010, 08:56:43 PM »
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Offline mscoffman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2133 on: March 03, 2010, 09:24:29 PM »
@All

There are two facts;

a) It would have been very easy to use a magic marker
to mark an 'X' and a 'Y' on each ball in order to prove
their fungiability in two experimental runs, where they
would be interchanged on their tracks.

<- experimental protocol was violated here.

b) It would have been very easy to subtlety alter one
of the balls to have constant radial material density,
without changing it's overall weight excessively.

So what I am saying is not that balls don't run the
track at different rates, but that the difference
that we see in the video may have been enhanced
by the balls not really being interchangeable, and
by using slight of hand during the experiment.

...What you see is not necessarily what you get...

Also, it may be possible to demonstrate this effect
using the Phun Physics Simulator.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2134 on: March 03, 2010, 09:54:47 PM »
Quote
So what I am saying is not that balls don't run the
track at different rates, but that the difference
that we see in the video may have been enhanced
by the balls not really being interchangeable, and
by using slight of hand during the experiment.

Well, if that were the case then it would be a hoax and we should ignore it. However, it isn't because such variational problem is known for centuries. What's new here is its implication for physics which has been ignored so far.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2134 on: March 03, 2010, 09:54:47 PM »
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Offline X00013

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2135 on: March 04, 2010, 04:15:55 AM »
Food 4 thot, shits n giiggles http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nGyBMGcQBc

Offline ramset

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2136 on: March 04, 2010, 04:30:45 AM »
X,
Definitely food for thought!
The tweezers we're a nice touch!

Thanks
Chet

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2136 on: March 04, 2010, 04:30:45 AM »
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Offline X00013

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2137 on: March 04, 2010, 04:39:41 AM »
vid not mine,  ;D

Offline JEJEHO

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2138 on: March 04, 2010, 07:49:16 AM »
Each domino's has its own PE when they kept straight. By releasing the PE of one small domino its converted KE helps the other domino to change its P.E to KE.So nothing special in this.

If it happens in the otherway like , smallest domino's loss of PE help the next domino to gain its PE , then loss of PE on this domino help the next to gain its PE then its really unbelivable. By doing this all dominos will loss there PE, the final one has a PE.Can it possible. It cannnot.


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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2138 on: March 04, 2010, 07:49:16 AM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2139 on: March 04, 2010, 05:29:25 PM »
@Cloxxki,

Wonder if you saw my attempt at building the gravity wheel: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7150.msg229719#msg229719 and  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7150.msg229720#msg229720. As you can see, unlike Abeling's the ramp is inbetween the two wheels and the steel ball are only lying on the edges of the slots thus decreasing the friction significantly. There's one difficult constructional problem, though. As you can see, the way it's done this construction only allows for the lower part of the ramp to be easily positioned. The upper part of the ramp, needed to form the entire quasi-elliptic track, is very difficult to hold in place. Any  simple way of attaching it stands in the way of the upcoming or downward going balls. Any ideas how this difficulty can be overcome?

Offline matrixman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2140 on: March 04, 2010, 06:25:23 PM »
You can bring math to the man but you can't make him think.

"Different value of kinetic energy from the same potential energy"

 Omni start both balls at the same time. When the ball which is traveling along the curve has reached its horizontal halfway point take a photo. Compare the vertical height of both balls. Is it the same? No, the ball following the curve will be lower down in the gravity well, meaning it's potential at that moment in time was greater. When both balls reach the end they will have transversed the same potential and both will be traveling at the same speed.
 I kept the bus out of your name cause I think you missed it on this on.

Fletcher your a smart guy, I'm glad to see you showing backbone. Wish you would at that other place.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2140 on: March 04, 2010, 06:25:23 PM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2141 on: March 04, 2010, 06:38:39 PM »
You can bring math to the man but you can't make him think.

"Different value of kinetic energy from the same potential energy"

 Omni start both balls at the same time. When the ball which is traveling along the curve has reached its horizontal halfway point take a photo. Compare the vertical height of both balls. Is it the same? No, the ball following the curve will be lower down in the gravity well, meaning it's potential at that moment in time was greater. When both balls reach the end they will have transversed the same potential and both will be traveling at the same speed.
 I kept the bus out of your name cause I think you missed it on this on.

Fletcher your a smart guy, I'm glad to see you showing backbone. Wish you would at that other place.

I'd suggest a different, physically more correct comparison. Compare the distance traveled by the two balls (along the curved and the straight path) from beginning to end. Release both balls at the same time from the start.

Now show backbone and state clearly is distance traveled divided by time of travel from beginning to end the same for both balls? If you say it isn't (which you'll do if you have backbone) then one had different velocity from the other which means one had different kinetic energy than the other. And yet they had the same potential energy.

Now, show backbone and acknowledge the truthfulness of the obvious: "Different value of kinetic energy from the same potential energy"

Offline mondrasek

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2142 on: March 04, 2010, 08:00:22 PM »
Now show backbone and state clearly is distance traveled divided by time of travel from beginning to end the same for both balls? If you say it isn't (which you'll do if you have backbone) then one had different velocity from the other which means one had different kinetic energy than the other. And yet they had the same potential energy.

Now, show backbone and acknowledge the truthfulness of the obvious: "Different value of kinetic energy from the same potential energy"

Omni, you keep leaving out the key word!  Here, I'll correct this for you:

Now show backbone and state clearly is distance traveled divided by time of travel from beginning to end the same for both balls? If you say it isn't (which you'll do if you have backbone) then one had different average velocity from the other which means one had different average kinetic energy than the other. And yet they had the same potential energy.

Now, show backbone and acknowledge the truthfulness of the obvious: "Different value of average kinetic energy from the same potential energy"

Offline matrixman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2143 on: March 04, 2010, 08:20:08 PM »
Your quite the ding dong.

"And yet they had the same potential energy"

Only at the end sweetheart, and at that time they are traveling at the same velocity. In between that time they each have a different potential.

Now that's several buses gone, run forest run.
 :D

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2144 on: March 04, 2010, 08:31:59 PM »
Your quite the ding dong.

"And yet they had the same potential energy"

Only at the end sweetheart, and at that time they are traveling at the same velocity. In between that time they each have a different potential.

Now that's several buses gone, run forest run.
 :D

Of course, at the end. Where else? That's the correct physics, not the one you propose.

The physical fact which you run from is that each ball traverses different physical distance while starting at the same level and ending also at the same, although lower, level. That's the first fact you run from like hell. The second fact you run from is that while starting at the same time and at the same level the ball traveling along the longer path arrives sooner at the end, again at the same, although lower, level. At the end, mind you. Not inbetween. Comparing what's happening inbetween in non-physical if one needs to compare what has happened with the same available potential energy.

You can run but you can't hide. You can't hide even behind the "average" velocity. Because a body with a higher average velocity also has greater kinetic energy than a body with a lower average velocity. How's that?

 

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