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Author Topic: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant  (Read 823524 times)

eisenficker2000

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #945 on: April 19, 2009, 10:32:40 PM »
@Dusty, very good setup!

Try to get at least one more pair of weights (and hockeysticks) in at 90 degees . To use a part of their inequal moment to get over the dead point  (near top point of the track) of the first set.

persume

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #946 on: April 20, 2009, 01:56:50 AM »
...and the left hand shakes the right hand.

And why -do tell- did he not reveal the secret on his death bed then?

Mankind are swine?

And yes if I find something like this I will shove it down your throaths free of charge and happy to do it. As my "getting on" with it:

How much are YOU going to pay me?

Pathetic closed source thinking.

I guess you don't know that much about Bessler. He died falling from a roof of a building. I'm asking you to give up ten years of your lifes work and all money you've made. Will you do it? Live the comparison, walk in the shoes before you comment.

Left hand shaking what right hand?

The swine comment comes from the bible, but the understanding is a human one and probably a lot older than that. It means the average couch potato, you know ...the kind that want thier fast food and want it now, appreciates and respects very little. Yet they always have some kind of idealistic comment ( if they even think at all ) about society. Easy to judge.  Try putting some experience behind it, it won't make you bitter if your, well...pure souled, if you have a good intent, it will make you better. How easy to smash a glass window, how hard to create. "Swine" will never consider that before picking up a rock.

hansvonlieven

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #947 on: April 20, 2009, 03:01:59 AM »
I have no idea what the hell you are talking about. The people who should get their heads out of their arses are the ones who think they can get away with a patent on an overunity device.

Anyone who is not willing to share an invention which will profoundly further mankind is either too dumb to realise he or she will bathe in riches regardless of patent or money for selling or not because the CREDIT will be linked to them, are too greedy or simply have nothing to show and are looking for attention.

Bessler falls into the second category.

Genius or not, Bessler was a greedy bastard and I do blame him for not disclosing his invention.

You really don't understand Bessler very well, do you?

Bessler was not motivated by greed.

Bessler was a complex man. He was a fundamentalist Christian fanatic. His religious convictions controlled everything in his life. There was one thing he was aiming for. He believed he had been chosen by God to create a technical school that would teach advanced technology to students while primarily instilling into his students the "fear of God". (This was meant literally, he actually says this).

For this he needed money. The outrageous sum he asked for his invention was to pay for just this. He believed that God had given him the plans for his wheel to make this project possible. Any amount of money insufficient to do this was not acceptable.

When things started going against him he probably saw in this a sign that the time for this revelation was not right and destroyed all evidence of his machines awaiting a new sign by God when to begin again in earnest. It never arrived, he died. I think that is mainly why he never wrote his secret down for future generations, probably believing that if God really wanted it He would find another vessel.

There is much evidence of this. Few scholars are aware of Bessler's religious writings, fewer have studied them. None of his books on Christianity, to my knowledge, have been translated.

Hans von Lieven

oscar

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #948 on: April 20, 2009, 05:15:10 AM »
sorry, was double

oscar

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #949 on: April 20, 2009, 05:16:48 AM »
Take a greasy cherry pit between the thumb and bent finger… yes?  It goes a long way, does it not?  This is, or must be, the final action as the slow moving weight is feed back into the high velocity circuit…
Yes, these concepts are intriguing:
- scissors cutting round rod and
- fingers squeezing cherry pit, ejecting it

And then we also should remember Netwon's law that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

The equal and opposite reaction in the cases mentioned above, would be to observe the round rod squeezing back onto the pair of scissors.
That is probably not a good way to put it, but nevertheless the scissors do change shape and (relative) position  due to the collision with the rounded object, no?

What if not cherry stones or dumbbells are used as a weights but scissor shaped objects?
A crazy thought?

Please consider: a scissors looks like an X.
And scissors (or call them Xes or call them 'two rods with a pin-joint') can shape shift from being tall/long (=small angle between the legs) to broad/short (=big angle between the legs).
They are forced to do this, when put under pressure (or when meeting a barrier).

Maybe one can imagine a chain of Xes, arranged in a circle or rather in a D-shape so that there are 9 on the descending and only 7 on the ascending side.

There might even be a missing link (in the chain).
Should this be the case, one X  - at a certain point in the cycle - might have to actually jump places, in addition to doing shape shift trickery.

edit: I envisage the Xes to be individually hanging in the wheel, when on the descending side and to be somehow stacked and resting on top of each other while pressed against the outer and inner barrier(s) on the ascending side.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2009, 01:25:52 PM by oscar »

skippy

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #950 on: April 20, 2009, 06:50:49 AM »
Hello, 

Great concept model dusty.  I have an idea about what might be missing. (Why the weights won't make it all the way through one cycle)  To over come gravity acceleration is needed.  In fact Sjack, talks about acceleration in this diagram. (The green acceleration lines) It seems he deliberately left this part of the mechanism out of his patent application.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Image:Abeling_Weight_Path.jpg

If you look at some of the still pictures taken out of Sjack's movies, the wooden prototype has several symmetrical holes evenly spaced around it. They are illustrated in this drawing.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Image:Abeling_Wheel_Side_Drawing.jpg

I have attached a hand drawn diagram that was sent to me years ago in an E-mail. I don't remember by whom, or even if I had requested the diagram in the first place.  It was almost like I got an E-mail that was meant for someone else. This hand drawn sketch illustrates a mechanical concept that at certain degrees of rotation could provide a lot of acceleration to the weights in this machine. I built a small model of this concept several years ago, and was amazed at the swiftness that the device moves at when the critical angles are reached. The two arms in the diagram (some might even call them warped boards) might be engineered to lift the weight in your machine both to the center axle, and back to the rim very violently and very quickly,  providing the acceleration to push the machine through one full cycle.

                                                                    Skippy

                                                                                     


Tink

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #951 on: April 20, 2009, 07:13:03 AM »
How about using at least 8 weights?

(Harti, I can only reply when I press the "quote" icon, because there is no reply icon (button) in any post left after the last update. Is it just me because I use Linux and Mozilla?)

mondrasek

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #952 on: April 20, 2009, 03:47:29 PM »
Just thinking out loud: If Abeling is using springs where would he put them?

AquariuZ, you may remember this:  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7150.msg169744#msg169744  Stefan posted a screen shot a page or two later.  I gave this idea (too early I think) because it was the next logical step in the investigation of the Abeling web page and video as far as I could tell:  How to collect energy in the lower left of the wheel and use it to accelerate the weights in the upper left?

This was just a rough idea how a spring could be loaded in the lower left and then be allowed to release in the upper right.  Of course this doodle was just "food for thought" and not intended as a full working concept.

I did not pursue this idea further since it should fail for the same reasons:  Energy into the spring = energy out.  So we still do not have additional energy.

The mental search for an energy surplus brought about the idea that the weights could be spinning and possibly have gyroscopic effects that could somehow be useful.  I still have not research gyros enough to satisfy my own questions, but the concept of precession is what I think might be useful.  The gyro concept is not a way to add or gain energy in the wheel cycle.  But precession in a gyro causes forces not to act in equal and opposite directions.  Instead they are equal and at 90 degrees.  Could this be useful?  I'll study it more when I can.

This has been posted several times before.  Those interested in gyros should check out:  http://www.gyroscopes.org/1974lecture.asp

M.

AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #953 on: April 20, 2009, 09:45:42 PM »
AquariuZ, you may remember this:  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7150.msg169744#msg169744  Stefan posted a screen shot a page or two later.  I gave this idea (too early I think) because it was the next logical step in the investigation of the Abeling web page and video as far as I could tell:  How to collect energy in the lower left of the wheel and use it to accelerate the weights in the upper left?

This was just a rough idea how a spring could be loaded in the lower left and then be allowed to release in the upper right.  Of course this doodle was just "food for thought" and not intended as a full working concept.

I did not pursue this idea further since it should fail for the same reasons:  Energy into the spring = energy out.  So we still do not have additional energy.

The mental search for an energy surplus brought about the idea that the weights could be spinning and possibly have gyroscopic effects that could somehow be useful.  I still have not research gyros enough to satisfy my own questions, but the concept of precession is what I think might be useful.  The gyro concept is not a way to add or gain energy in the wheel cycle.  But precession in a gyro causes forces not to act in equal and opposite directions.  Instead they are equal and at 90 degrees.  Could this be useful?  I'll study it more when I can.

This has been posted several times before.  Those interested in gyros should check out:  http://www.gyroscopes.org/1974lecture.asp

M.

The AbelingMO model, I missed that. Have it now and will play with it for a while because I like the concept. He did say that acceleration is generated in the lower left part of the wheel.

With regards to the gyroscopes, please have a look at the Hayasaka-Takeuchi thesis where the claim is a mass reduction in gyroscopes under certain circumstances.

http://www.earthtech.org/experiments/tajmar/papers/p2701_1.pdf

If this mass reduction is a phenomenon in spinning bodies in general I think there is something here. Even Tesla did something extraordinary back then with a copper egg:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=item31

AZ

Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #954 on: April 20, 2009, 11:36:02 PM »
@All,

Check this out. If I haven't overlooked something then that's it. And, let me add, if that's it then @eisenficker2000 rulez!

hansvonlieven

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #955 on: April 21, 2009, 12:00:17 AM »
@All,

Check this out. If I haven't overlooked something then that's it. And, let me add, if that's it then @eisenficker2000 rulez!

Another quirk of WM2D. The device cannot possibly work as drawn. If you imagine a vertical line through the axle you will see that there is more torque on the right hand side than on the left, yet the device rotates to the left. And that is without taking friction into account.

Hans von Lieven

broli

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #956 on: April 21, 2009, 12:08:48 AM »
Another quirk of WM2D. The device cannot possibly work as drawn. If you imagine a vertical line through the axle you will see that there is more torque on the right hand side than on the left, yet the device rotates to the left. And that is without taking friction into account.

Hans von Lieven

I believe you are wrong. If you draw a curved line and do the torque analysis you will be surprised at what you get. Even though it's closer to the center its torque contribution is higher than the one that is further away. I posted the same answer in another thread;

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7262.new

Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #957 on: April 21, 2009, 12:10:45 AM »
Another quirk of WM2D. The device cannot possibly work as drawn. If you imagine a vertical line through the axle you will see that there is more torque on the right hand side than on the left, yet the device rotates to the left. And that is without taking friction into account.

Hans von Lieven

The question is why isn't the same quirk showing itself here (see attached)?

Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #958 on: April 21, 2009, 12:16:47 AM »
That link you gave is from the days when the basic flaws in wm2d were still unknown. In the present case there are no rigid joints, air resistance is on, there are no springs and we have a similar model (non-working) with everything else the same but the grooves on the rotor.

Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #959 on: April 21, 2009, 12:22:53 AM »
Here it is for those who don't have wm2d: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-dT4MZCtYo