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Author Topic: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant  (Read 782166 times)

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #840 on: April 16, 2009, 10:31:53 PM »
@AquariuZ,

Quote
t is simple: the more spin, the more kinetic energy is passed on to the barrier, so when spin is created in the Abeling setup BY GRAVITY and centrifugal forces in a sufficient way the dumbbells WILL interact with the wheel upon impact.

I hope you don’t understand this in a sense that upon impact the spinning ball possess more kinetic energy than the ball not spinning. The well-established physical truth in the situation of this simulation is that the total sum of translational kinetic energy and the rotational energy (plus the heat losses) must be equal to the gravitational potential energy the ball had at the apex. If the program shows otherwise, it’s a flaw in the program and not a new discovery.

In this sense, it isn’t true that the more spin the more kinetic energy is passed on to the barrier. If you think the program is showing otherwise it’s an error in the program.

What may differ probably is the resultant velocity induced on the body being impacted upon after the impact by the moving body – the magnitude and direction of that velocity while preserving the amount of the total energy. I don’t see, however, how this will solve the problem of closing the loop in Abeling’s device.

Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #841 on: April 16, 2009, 11:15:15 PM »
When you guys are talking about spin combined with a drop maybe you should be looking at something like a Yo-Yo.

Just a thought

Hans von Lieven

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #842 on: April 16, 2009, 11:22:59 PM »
When you guys are talking about spin combined with a drop maybe you should be looking at something like a Yo-Yo.

Just a thought

Hans von Lieven

Hans

Water wheels have spin combined with drop.

 

Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #843 on: April 16, 2009, 11:37:17 PM »
No Alan, they don't.

The drop causes rotation in a separate device in a water wheel. In a Yo-Yo the drop actually causes the weight to rotate as it unwinds from the string. Different thing altogether.

Hans von Lieven

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #844 on: April 16, 2009, 11:45:51 PM »
OK Hans

I stand corrected, I was thinking out of context. :-[ LOL

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #845 on: April 17, 2009, 12:03:02 AM »
@mondrasek,

Could you please continue your thought from here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7150.msg171965#msg171965. Probably you recall my post to you http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7150.msg171005#msg171005 in which, although no gyro effect was involved, nevertheless shows how the same gravitational potential energy can be spent once for a vertical displacement and, if appropriate construction is available, for a displacement sideways, at 90 degrees. So, suppose we spend part of the gravitational energy which the sphere had at the top to convert it into rotational at the bottom, what will be the construction for turning the wheel such that, by repeating this with each one of the spheres, it will accomplish a full turn (will close the loop). See, what I'm getting at is to explore the practical application for our purposes of the fact mentioned by you that the gyro will be deflected at 90 degrees compared to non-gyro impact. Do you have any concrete ideas in this practical aspect or you're just mentioning that 90 degree deflection as just food for thought? At this point I don't see any practical ramification for our purposes of that fact.

Offline AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #846 on: April 17, 2009, 01:02:10 AM »
LOL

This has more thrills in it than Indiana Jones

Look out for the wheel! Watch the ramp! Noo.

....just......cant......yes

 Cherrymans gears BTW enjoy the show

OK back to the egg...

Offline mondrasek

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #847 on: April 17, 2009, 01:05:44 AM »
@mondrasek,

Could you please continue your thought from here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7150.msg171965#msg171965. Probably you recall my post to you http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7150.msg171005#msg171005 in which, although no gyro effect was involved, nevertheless shows how the same gravitational potential energy can be spent once for a vertical displacement and, if appropriate construction is available, for a displacement sideways, at 90 degrees. So, suppose we spend part of the gravitational energy which the sphere had at the top to convert it into rotational at the bottom, what will be the construction for turning the wheel such that, by repeating this with each one of the spheres, it will accomplish a full turn (will close the loop). See, what I'm getting at is to explore the practical application for our purposes of the fact mentioned by you that the gyro will be deflected at 90 degrees compared to non-gyro impact. Do you have any concrete ideas in this practical aspect or you're just mentioning that 90 degree deflection as just food for thought? At this point I don't see any practical ramification for our purposes of that fact.

It's definitely just food for thought, but with a few spices added that, though probably ground from the ignorant root, I thought intriguing.

In the current embodiments of the Abeling patent the weights encounter a force near the bottom of their fall through the right side of the wheel (in a clockwise turning wheel example like in the patent).  The force is due to the ramps that start to bring the weight closer to the axle.  When this ramp force is pushing straight up, the 90 degree reaction force could be straight to the left, aiding with the wheel's rotation.  As the weight rises up the ramp towards the 9 o'clock position the ramp is exerting a force on the weight that is to the right.  The 90 degree reaction force is now straight up, assisting in raising the weight:  Effectively lightly lifting the weight.  After this point, CF should push the weight back out to the rim in the sling shot trajectory.  I have not thought that through.  I'm not sure where the real force vectors acting on the weights are in this area.

I understand the concept of precession as it applies to gyroscopes and the 90 degree displacement reactions that result due to forces applied to one end of a gyroscope axle.  I have no idea how they apply if a force acts on both ends of the axle equally, or, in our case, if applied to the center of the axle with two weights spinning on the ends.

It was just food for though in the "How the hell could this work?" department.  I think we all agree the patent is for a non working devise *or* something is not disclosed in the patent.  This is one idea that is not disclosed that is also not ruled out by the patent.  Take from it what you will.

BTW, another work related road trip tomorrow so I do not know when I can respond to questions, criticism, and/or attacks.

M.

Offline mondrasek

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #848 on: April 17, 2009, 01:09:24 AM »
... enjoy the show

This is one most excellent adventure!

Offline AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #849 on: April 17, 2009, 01:19:37 AM »
This is one most excellent adventure!

I was laughing all the way up to frame 8000

Poor little ball

Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #850 on: April 17, 2009, 01:19:57 AM »
Neat AquariuZ,

Have a look at this one. Here we separate the centrifugal force from the force imparted by the drop. Notice how the wheel keeps spinning while the released centrifugal force propels the ball up a ramp.

Question is: Are the two forces added together more than the potential energy from the drop? You be the judge.

Hans von Lieven

Offline broli

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #851 on: April 17, 2009, 01:23:00 AM »
Has anyone contacted Sjack directly yet?

Offline noonespecial

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #852 on: April 17, 2009, 01:34:18 AM »

In the current embodiments of the Abeling patent the weights encounter a force near the bottom of their fall through the right side of the wheel (in a clockwise turning wheel example like in the patent).  The force is due to the ramps that start to bring the weight closer to the axle.  When this ramp force is pushing straight up, the 90 degree reaction force could be straight to the left, aiding with the wheel's rotation.  As the weight rises up the ramp towards the 9 o'clock position the ramp is exerting a force on the weight that is to the right.  The 90 degree reaction force is now straight up, assisting in raising the weight:  Effectively lightly lifting the weight.  After this point, CF should push the weight back out to the rim in the sling shot trajectory.  I have not thought that through.  I'm not sure where the real force vectors acting on the weights are in this area.


My question is with regard to the above is: After the weight develops it potential energy prior to the 6:00 position, isn't most (if not all) of that potential energy alledgedly transferred to the wheel in the form of kinetic energy? Also, as the weights travel in toward the center from 6:00 to 9:00 they lose acceleration. With regard to both of these points, how is it that there is any energy left to create any forward momentum beyond the 9:00 point, let alone any centrifugal acceleration?

Regards,
Charlie

Offline persume

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #853 on: April 17, 2009, 01:36:23 AM »
You boys are deluded. Enjoy the drinks cause the show aint free.

Offline Cherryman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #854 on: April 17, 2009, 01:52:43 AM »
LOL

This has more thrills in it than Indiana Jones

Look out for the wheel! Watch the ramp! Noo.

....just......cant......yes

 Cherrymans gears BTW enjoy the show

OK back to the egg...

Geweldig!   ;D