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Author Topic: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant  (Read 823364 times)

AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #750 on: April 15, 2009, 12:07:35 PM »
Well that did not take long.

Using one of Cherrymans wheels here another example of a translation of spin onto the wheel under a certain angle.

Optimal position of the wheel in this configuration is around 0 = 0.100 rad which gives a (whopping) jolt of -0.228 rad/s to the wheel.

Again, real world params active. NOT TO SCALE.

Bug or not, with this I can build an accelerating wheel. I will build one now with a three meter wheel.

AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #751 on: April 15, 2009, 12:50:29 PM »
Dont rush cherryman

Cherryman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #752 on: April 15, 2009, 12:57:20 PM »
Dont rush cherryman

With what?

Grinzz...  Well I'm working on two things at the same time...  Not good, i should focus on one.  I had a taught last night about those dumbells (bars) maybe they are not aligned and not only uses as shifting balance but also at the same time as there own lever. But that's becoming difficult 3D Stuff

The other project i post now.. It is not finished, but you cab see the idea behind it. The trick is a steady feedding, and more balls (weights) has to be weighting in a line to keep the feeding on a regular timing.

File attached  (Not working yet, just the concept)

Cherryman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #753 on: April 15, 2009, 12:58:44 PM »
And Aquarius, i see the force you're setup generates.. But still don't understand how you get the ball back up..  Am I missing something here?  ???

AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #754 on: April 15, 2009, 01:01:09 PM »
And Aquarius, i see the force you're setup generates.. But still don't understand how you get the ball back up..  Am I missing something here?  ???

You can easily do it using your gear example

Cherryman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #755 on: April 15, 2009, 01:05:40 PM »
You can easily do it using your gear example

Aha, now i understand!  Hmm  This is worth looking into further. 

Good luck!

broli

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #756 on: April 15, 2009, 01:06:52 PM »
Aqariuz I tweaked your angle spin wheel a bit by adding energy calculations. The input energy comes from the potential energy of the weight while the total energy output is equal to the kinetic energy of the weight and rotational energy of wheel. There's then also a cop calculation and it's very overunity. But I don't fully trust these numbers as the simulation is filled with polygonal shapes which I don't trust. I would try to primitize it  :P.

Cherryman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #757 on: April 15, 2009, 01:12:34 PM »
Aqariuz I tweaked your angle spin wheel a bit by adding energy calculations. The input energy comes from the potential energy of the weight while the total energy output is equal to the kinetic energy of the weight and rotational energy of wheel. There's then also a cop calculation and it's very overunity. But I don't fully trust these numbers as the simulation is filled with polygonal shapes which I don't trust. I would try to primitize it  :P.

That sounds promissing!  :)

Cherryman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #758 on: April 15, 2009, 01:16:58 PM »
You can easily do it using your gear example

We need a feeding system that is connected to the mainwheel, to ensure the right timing of the arriving of the weights...  I guess with having a few weights waiting in line and a kind of "thing" that's getting triggered by the wheel feeds a weight inside at the right time.  I tried several of those feeders.. But still not having a good design..  It can't be that hard..  you will see it in almost any factory with automated production lines..

Anyone got a clue??

Grimer

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #759 on: April 15, 2009, 01:29:01 PM »
Johann E. E. Bessler:

"A great craftsman would be that man who can 'lightly' cause a heavy weight to fly upwards! Who can make a pound-weight rise as 4 ounces fall, or 4 pounds rise as 16 ounces fall. If he can sort that out, the motion will perpetuate itself. But if he can't, then his hard work shall be all in vain."

That says it all doesn't it. Together with the Ezechiel quote

Ezechiel 1:16. And the appearance of the wheels, and the work of them was like
the appearance of the sea and the four had all one likeness: and their
appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the midst of a wheel.


It shows that Bessler beat Sjack to it by 300 years.

Think about it. What happens to the downwards force on the rack as the cogged weight climbs.

Where does this reaction finish up.

That's right, the ground. And that ain't going anywhere soon.

So the ground "sees" the wheel as having gotten (good Yankee word that  ;) ) heavier.

But if the wheel's gotten heavier, something else must have gotten lighter, eh!

What?

The weights climbing up the rack.

Now go back and read the Bessler quote.

Cherryman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #760 on: April 15, 2009, 01:53:21 PM »
Aquarius, i was trying to test the lifting power of the concept.. It seems to have enough force.. But my cradles are going crazy...  I keep having problems with the program, things moving by themselves.. 

Here is the file

Cherryman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #761 on: April 15, 2009, 02:00:26 PM »
Oke, If the program isn't fooling us..  Here is proof we can lift a weight back up to its same height...

 :o :o :o

Good work Aquarius!

broli

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #762 on: April 15, 2009, 02:04:12 PM »
Aqariuz I rebuild your simulation from scratch the "proper" way  :P. I used only primitives to build everything the wheel is only 1m in radius instead of 50m and only weighs 10kg instead of tons while the rolling weight weighs 1kg. Regardless of the amount of animation step chosen the over unity figure remains consistent. The COP can be as little as 1.24 (124%) to 24 (2400%) just by changing the mass of the rolling weight (see below) or the weight of the wheel.

BE AWARE:

If you change the mass of the rolling weight you must not forget to change the Energy input value. The weight of the wheel can be changed freely though. Make the mass of wheel 1 ton and you will see a COP of 28 000%  ;D.

Either there's something to explore here or I made a fatal error  ;D.

broli

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #763 on: April 15, 2009, 02:29:05 PM »
This is really strange. From all my experience with wm2d I have seen nothing like this. Usually the "bug" would go away with proper modeling but this remains consistent. Consistent to a point it makes unbelievable feats. It seems that the static-, kinetic friction and elasticity are the main parameters involved.

Even if the wheel weighs 10,000,000 kg, the 1kg weight manages for some reason to give it an extreme amount of energy on collision which is off the charts. In this specific case it's 7,222,243,630% overunity. But like I said those parameters are crucial. If you reduce them to 0 nothing out of the ordinary happens when you all max them out and make them 1 nothing out of the ordinary happens.

It's only when they reach a specific value where the cop is at its maximum.

Edit: Attached is another model clearly showing overunity instead of numbers. To stay true to the Bessler quote. The red weight is 4 times the yellow weight's mass. As you can see a small mass shoots up a heavy mass quite violently.

I'm on the fence with this one. Wm2d has it quirks but this is pretty amazing to me for such a simple model.

Cherryman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #764 on: April 15, 2009, 02:48:35 PM »
This is really strange. From all my experience with wm2d I have seen nothing like this. Usually the "bug" would go away with proper modeling but this remains consistent. Consistent to a point it makes unbelievable feats. It seems that the static-, kinetic friction and elasticity are the main parameters involved.

Even if the wheel weighs 10,000,000 kg, the 1kg weight manages for some reason to give it an extreme amount of energy on collision which is off the charts. In this specific case it's 7,222,243,630% overunity. But like I said those parameters are crucial. If you reduce them to 0 nothing out of the ordinary happens when you all max them out and make them 1 nothing out of the ordinary happens.

It's only when they reach a specific value where the cop is at its maximum.

Edit: Attached is another model clearly showing overunity instead of numbers. To stay true to the Bessler quote. The red weight is 4 times the yellow weight's mass. As you can see a small mass shoots up a heavy mass quite violently.

I'm on the fence with this one. Wm2d has it quirks but this is pretty amazing to me for such a simple model.

Hi Broli, i rebuilt it as well, but how do i set the weights?  because this doesn't replicate it.

File attached.