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Author Topic: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant  (Read 514381 times)

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #690 on: April 14, 2009, 07:19:41 PM »
Tnx, i repaired it myself also.

Here you can see the flying path of the ball...  I think this is the force we seek......

"may the force be with you"  ;D

Interesting design,
so you just want to pu the ball via the "flying" ramp into the height at 6 o´clock, so that it could be picked up by
the next lever arm ?
Please explain more in detail.
Many thanks.
P.S. For those who don´t have WM2D it would be good to also post a small screenshot at least.

Regards, Stefan.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline persume

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #691 on: April 14, 2009, 07:33:50 PM »
@Stefan



I totally agree Abeling is hiding something, because at best you have a very low loss construction like one of the models I posted earlier. Not overunity. AZ

Maybe he has just made a mistake; isn't it possible that a free energy inventor might make a mistake?

I just love how some of you guys go to whatever lengths to justify your belief in free energy. Don't get me wrong, I am not negating the possibility of free energy, but I let the interest of it stand on its own. I find the need to justify it by coming up with new catch phrases like overunity, or retheorizing over and over again forces like gravity and comparing them to wind, or quoting some notible scientist who at one time may have considered perpetual motion ( what good thinker wouldn't have ) to be quite frankly - idiotic.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #692 on: April 14, 2009, 07:37:04 PM »
I just made a test with WM2D regarding the centrifugal forces.
I just took a 5 Kg weight and applied to it a "sloted" path.
The weight starts rolling down to the right side the slope down,
then turns inside the slot and comes back up the left slope.

If it gains energy by the centrifugal forces, it should go over the top and continue.

Well, it does it 4 or 5 times over the top and then the next time it does not take the top,
but goes the other way back.

So as potential energy is converted into kinetic energy, this is a balance and
it seems, the centrifugal forces do not put additional energy into the system.
Why it goes for the first 5 times over the top is probably a calculation error of WM2D, cause
no friction was applied.

Regards, Stefan.
Attached is also the WM2D file

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #692 on: April 14, 2009, 07:37:04 PM »
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Offline mondrasek

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #693 on: April 14, 2009, 08:06:31 PM »

Why it goes for the first 5 times over the top is probably a calculation error of WM2D, cause
no friction was applied.


Decrease the animation step to get more accurate results and it does not go over the top.

Centrifugal Force is not a true force.  It is the effect of changing the direction of travel of an object (that should go straight) into a circular path.  Changing the path of a weight into a circle requires and acceleration towards the axle.  CF is the equal and opposite acceleration that points away from the axle of a wheel.

When you spin a weight attached to a string around your head, you are applying a force by holding the string.  This force is equal and opposite to the fictional force called Centrifugal Force.  In truth you are providing an acceleration that bends the path of the weight on the end of the string into a circle.  If you let go of the string the weight will travel in a straight line as is the nature of objects.  At the moment of release, the fictional CF also disapears.

So it takes energy, or proper construction (a wheel) to create CF.  It is not a Force that we can use to extract energy, or so we are taught.

Not trying to be negative here, just offer the classical explanation for those who might wnat to read it.  I too look for the "imposible"  way to harvest Gravity and CF.

M.

Offline 0c

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #694 on: April 14, 2009, 08:40:13 PM »
For some adventuresome WM2D user:

Create a 1 meter diameter wheel that has eight 1Kg steel balls/weights held inside at the periphery. Provide a ball escape mechanism for at least one ball which can be triggered to release the ball. Mount the wheel so the lowest portion is 1 meter from a perfectly elastic surface which is 90 degrees to the escape trajectory (you may need to try a couple runs to get the correct trajectory).

Now spin the wheel at 100 RPM and release one ball at the bottom (6:00 position) and see how high it bounces. Also note any changes to wheel rotation when the ball escapes. Now repeat the experiment at 200 RPM and note the difference.

The purpose of this experiment is to see how much energy (momentum) the ball acquires from the centrifugal force of the spinning wheel. We all know what the gravitational effects will be.

A few pages back, I described a system where the balls actually leave the wheel at the bottom and are recaptured at the top. In that concept, there are only weights on one side of the wheel, once it gets up to operating speed. This simple experiment should provide some information about weight and wheel behavior under these conditions, which might be useful for determining the feasibility of using a ball return mechanism external to the rotating device.

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #694 on: April 14, 2009, 08:40:13 PM »
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Offline Cherryman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #695 on: April 14, 2009, 08:47:45 PM »
For some adventuresome WM2D user:

Create a 1 meter diameter wheel that has eight 1Kg steel balls/weights held inside at the periphery. Provide a ball escape mechanism for at least one ball which can be triggered to release the ball. Mount the wheel so the lowest portion is 1 meter from a perfectly elastic surface which is 90 degrees to the escape trajectory (you may need to try a couple runs to get the correct trajectory).

Now spin the wheel at 100 RPM and release one ball at the bottom (6:00 position) and see how high it bounces. Also note any changes to wheel rotation when the ball escapes. Now repeat the experiment at 200 RPM and note the difference.

The purpose of this experiment is to see how much energy (momentum) the ball acquires from the centrifugal force of the spinning wheel. We all know what the gravitational effects will be.

A few pages back, I described a system where the balls actually leave the wheel at the bottom and are recaptured at the top. In that concept, there are only weights on one side of the wheel, once it gets up to operating speed. This simple experiment should provide some information about weight and wheel behavior under these conditions, which might be useful for determining the feasibility of using a ball return mechanism external to the rotating device.

Again.. That comes down to the same...  See here a ball leaving the wheel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBygA2vOHx4&feature=channel_page

Although it happens on the inside, it still is disconnected from the wheel by the ramp. You can actually see it also flying away from the rod, so it's floating free for a short period and then rejoins the wheel at around 12 o clock.

I tried that in different setups.. But it will loose speed eventually.

Offline 0c

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #696 on: April 14, 2009, 09:01:08 PM »
Again.. That comes down to the same...  See here a ball leaving the wheel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBygA2vOHx4&feature=channel_page

Although it happens on the inside, it still is disconnected from the wheel by the ramp. You can actually see it also flying away from the rod, so it's floating free for a short period and then rejoins the wheel at around 12 o clock.

I tried that in different setups.. But it will loose speed eventually.

In your example, the ball/weight is still supported by the spokes of the wheel on the way up. I want to see how the ball and wheel behave if the ball is ejected at the bottom so there is no interaction with the wheel until it rejoins at the top. And is there a change in the ball's energy level if the wheel is rotating at 200 RPM vs 100 RPM.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #696 on: April 14, 2009, 09:01:08 PM »
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Offline mondrasek

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #697 on: April 14, 2009, 09:07:00 PM »
Now spin the wheel at 100 RPM and release one ball at the bottom (6:00 position) and see how high it bounces. Also note any changes to wheel rotation when the ball escapes. Now repeat the experiment at 200 RPM and note the difference.

The ball will not drop straight down if released at the 6 o'clock position.  At that position it is traveling parallel to the surface of the Earth (same direction as an arrow from 3 to 9 o'clock).  Release it there and it will now be able to be acted on by the acceleration of gravity and so its path will arc towards Earth.  If you speed up the wheel to 200 RPM you will be traveling twice as fast in the horizontal when you release at 6 o'clock.  So it will travel further out away from the wheel as it arcs downward due to gravity.

If you want the ball on a clockwise wheel to drop straight down, you must release it at 3 o'clock.  If it does go straight down it would also indicate that the Centrifugal Force disappeared the moment the ball was released as well.  Nice experiment for that purpose I suppose.

M.

Offline Cherryman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #698 on: April 14, 2009, 09:07:41 PM »
In your example, the ball/weight is still supported by the spokes of the wheel on the way up. I want to see how the ball and wheel behave if the ball is ejected at the bottom so there is no interaction with the wheel until it rejoins at the top. And is there a change in the ball's energy level if the wheel is rotating at 200 RPM vs 100 RPM.

The beam is the hollow droplet shaped curve, when you look carefully you will see that the ball leaves the beam due to a higher spead the ball gains from the curved blocker.  But feel free to test it yourself.

About 30 pages back i posted this one..  It has a start speed of 1 for half a second and after settling it will run between 1.22 and 0.88 quite a while. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqDWtxSMbCc&feature=channel_page

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #698 on: April 14, 2009, 09:07:41 PM »
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Offline Cherryman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #699 on: April 14, 2009, 09:12:43 PM »
Here you can see what a dropping ball from 3 'o clock is capable of  (Without extra force or speed)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14mzbSkybvk&feature=channel_page

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #700 on: April 14, 2009, 09:20:13 PM »
@mrsean2k,

When I mentioned parallel processing it was regarding @mondrasek’s remark that calculations are done sequentially, one element at a time. I was thinking maybe if these calculations are done in parallel that would avoid the out of sequence problem we were talking about – calculations done for an element when the conditions for the other elements have changed. Otherwise, in terms of accuracy you’re undoubtedly right. No wonder why difference equations are not exactly differential equations.

@mondrasek,

Probably saying that centrifugal force is not a true force is a bit confusing because the body does experience it. The emphasis should be on the fact which you clearly point out that it is a reaction to a force for which you have to spend energy to create. That is, centrifugal force cannot be used to create energy. On the contrary, energy is spent to have centrifugal force appear. This has to be understood well because it causes a lot of confusion and false expectations, which is evident even in the latest posts.

On the other hand, it is true that the centrifugal force may help in aligning the elements in a favorable way which would allow them to produce energy by some other route, if such route exists. That is, one may think, some energy (part of the previously produced such) is spent to align the elements properly so that further greater energy is produced. That’s, of course, easier said then done when continuous production of such excess energy is aimed at (discontinuously, the way to produce excess energy is already clear).

Maybe I should add, if a proper construction to produce excess energy continuously exists, it should be enough for the aligning the elements properly for its production. One doesn't need centrifugal force to do that alignment. So focusing on the centrifugal force doesn't help much, if at all, when continuous production of excess energy is the goal.

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #700 on: April 14, 2009, 09:20:13 PM »
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Offline AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #701 on: April 14, 2009, 09:23:56 PM »
So the wheel is not bothered by the ball in the upmovement.. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBygA2vOHx4&feature=channel

That is just what Abeling mentions in the patent. Effortless ascend of the weights.

This is worth taking another look at for sure... Maybe not restricting the ball when it leaves the ramp...

On thing is for sure, "scissoring it" or squeezing it like a cherry pit (no pun intended) between thumb and finger fails miserable due to the friction generated.

No friction - no real acceleration. The more friction the more loss.

Offline AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #702 on: April 14, 2009, 09:28:54 PM »
Talking about strange behaviour...  Why is this going the wrong side???

Same thing, the mass of the wedge is too small. wm2d has a problem with that for some reason.

Set the mass to one KG and it works fine

Offline Cherryman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #703 on: April 14, 2009, 09:29:27 PM »


This is worth taking another look at for sure... Maybe not restricting the ball when it leaves the ramp...



Grinzz...  That is the basic of the KAD system al along..  Those are from the drawings i started with.. , my first prototype i built with my daughter from lego and an old harddisk and a few rails was built on this principle  ( didn't work, in case you're wondering)   ;D It seems that we do not only play with circles, whe also a walking around in them  :o

Offline mondrasek

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #704 on: April 14, 2009, 09:35:42 PM »
Probably saying that centrifugal force is not a true force is a bit confusing because the body does experience it.

I'm not thrilled with calling CF "not a true force", but I have seen it expressed as that, or as a "fictional force".

Lets try this example.  You are driving straight in your car.  If we remove all friction you will continue in a straight line forever.  When you initiate a turn by turning the steering wheel, you feel CF, right?  It pushes you away from the way you want to turn.  But what is really happening is your body is trying to continue in a straight line.  There is no force pushing on you.  So CF is fictitious.  What you notice is the change in direction of your reference frame which is the car.  It turns due to a force, but your body does not want to.  What you are experiencing is a resistance to a change in direction due to a force.

I agree it is very confusing to use those terms.  But it might also be more confusing for the term Centrifugal Force to have ever been used in the first place.  Maybe it should have been the Centrifugal Sensation?

M.

 

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