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Author Topic: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant  (Read 667399 times)

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #375 on: April 11, 2009, 12:38:58 PM »
@Philip Hardcastle,

You did not keep the agreement. I did not ask for your opinion in sending the text and I specifically said I don't want to discuss this. Uttering the nonsense you've uttered above is starting a discussion and this is deplorable once you've agreed not to discuss it.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #376 on: April 11, 2009, 02:26:47 PM »
@Philip Hardcastle,

You did not keep the agreement. I did not ask for your opinion in sending the text and I specifically said I don't want to discuss this. Uttering the nonsense you've uttered above is starting a discussion and this is deplorable once you've agreed not to discuss it.

Omnibus can you please PM me this documentation. I would be very interested in reading it and will not comment in public on it.

Contrary to some individuals in here you seem committed with a scientific basis for being so which makes me curious,

Thanks in advance

Offline AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #377 on: April 11, 2009, 02:30:05 PM »
@omni

Sorry to be blunt, and I know you do not want a debate, but anyone saying that it is proved by that essay is not being rational.

It is not the basis for anything and certainly extracting from it some sense as to support all these efforts is misguided. Mistakes start from the first few paragraphs and are then built upon to form a misdirection of common sense.

A bit like the old story

"A guy is given $10 by each of three ladies to go buy 3 bottles of wine, he buys the wine at $10 a bottle, $30 in all. However the merchant says, sorry I have over charged you, that wine is on special, here is $5 refund.

The guy thinks to himself walking back that splitting $5 is a bit tricky so he decides to give the ladies back a dollar each.

So he gives back each lady a dollar and gives them each a bottle of wine.

So they each paid $9 for a total of $27, and the guy kept $2 so 27 + 2 = $29.

So what happened to the other dollar?"


This is an old nonsense puzzle and so is that CoE violation paper.

I did read the paper twice and started to mark it up but thought, omni is smart enough to see this himself, and if not he maybe sees something I am missing.

I do not believe so, however I respect all your  rights to pursue non scientific ideas and will leave you to do your own thing.

Also I note that despite showing a preparedness to share my ideas they are ignored.

I note that no one comments on RTG or Curled Ballistic.

I guess I do not fit in here, and I do not wish to offend, so I must go and do, instead of talking.

Best wishes to all.


Philip Hardcastle.

Philip, I would seriously doubt that this forum is here to defend the CoE law, wouldn´t you agree?

There cannot be technological evolution without fresh looks at dusty matter, especially if you are not hampered by formal scientific education.

Funny thing is, the first thing any decent professor will teach you is to question everything. That would include the law of CoE.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #377 on: April 11, 2009, 02:30:05 PM »
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Offline eisenficker2000

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #378 on: April 11, 2009, 02:34:17 PM »
Just another interpretation..from a Dutch engineer..Yep roots in the north, I know ter Apel.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #379 on: April 11, 2009, 02:38:37 PM »
@AquariuZ,

Can you give me your e-mail address? Thanks.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #379 on: April 11, 2009, 02:38:37 PM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #380 on: April 11, 2009, 02:42:50 PM »
@eisenficker2000,

Thanks for sharing. The idea seems very similar to that of @Cherryman. Wonder how close it is to Abeling's. Have you shown it to him?

Offline AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #381 on: April 11, 2009, 02:46:44 PM »
@eisenficker2000,

Thanks for sharing. The idea seems very similar to that of @Cherryman. Wonder how close it is to Abeling's. Have you shown it to him?

Hey! I started that theory!

 ;D ;D ;D

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #381 on: April 11, 2009, 02:46:44 PM »
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Offline AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #382 on: April 11, 2009, 02:48:25 PM »
Just another interpretation..from a Dutch engineer..Yep roots in the north, I know ter Apel.

Hi! And welcome, thanks for sharing and please jion the discussion

I tried modelling this, but results were negative so far.

Trying to figure out the weights, shape and interconnectivity at the moment.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #383 on: April 11, 2009, 02:55:20 PM »
@AquariuZ,

Would be interesting to model @eisenficker2000's idea in WM2D exactly as he proposes it with the groove etc. and then maybe play with the pattern of the groove as well as with the rest of the elements (weight of spheres, material and so on).

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #383 on: April 11, 2009, 02:55:20 PM »
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Offline AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #384 on: April 11, 2009, 03:11:03 PM »
@AquariuZ,

Would be interesting to model @eisenficker2000's idea in WM2D exactly as he proposes it with the groove etc. and then maybe play with the pattern of the groove as well as with the rest of the elements (weight of spheres, material and so on).

I already posted that model earlier, but here it is again... PS: I did play with moving the barriers all around (because I saw the barriers on the video) and as of yet no self running, but at best a balanced wheel.

Also, to eisenficker2000: WHAT IF THE WEIGHTS ARE CONNECTED VIA A BAR PAIRING THEM IN 2 X 2

Inspired by Dusty

Offline mondrasek

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #385 on: April 11, 2009, 03:14:50 PM »
I think it's a bug in WD2D that when you remove the motor the structure falls apart..  So I have to rebuilt them..

You should be able to delete the motor and replace it with a pin joint.  I do it all the time.

FWIW, I will usually construct a wheel using a pin joint for an axle first.  If I want to force rotation to visualize the motion during rotation, I put a motor on top of the pin joint.  Then when you delete the motor the pin joint axle is still there.

Omni, if you can point me to just which sim file you want the motor removed from, I can do it if you have not been able to.  Also, please PM me any questions you have with how to use WM2D and I'll answer as best I can.  Or maybe we should start a WM2D users thread with tips and Q&A?   I recommend that everyone at lease take the 15 minutes to do the tutorials as well.  Very basic, but it gets you going.

M.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2009, 03:38:19 PM by mondrasek »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #385 on: April 11, 2009, 03:14:50 PM »
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Offline mondrasek

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #386 on: April 11, 2009, 03:24:06 PM »
I have a different idea as to how this wheel works, so here is a video as to how I think it works:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh7GAUYg_E8&feature=channel_page

Over this weekend I'm going to build a unit and see if my theory is correct.

Dusty, good luck with your idea! 

I wanted to reiterate that any system like this should work with only two weights at 180 degrees apart on a wheel as you have stated.  But once you have a positive torque due to one pair (and a self starting and running system), you would want to add more pairs.  This increases the amount of usable output torque.  So if you get an output torque of say 1 N.m from one pair, you would get 8 x 1 = 8 N.m from eight pairs.

Likewise, if it doesn't run with one pair, you actually have a resisting torque.  Adding more pairs will  increase the amount of resiting torque.  So adding additional pairs will cause a wheel to spin even less when an identical impulse is used to give it initial motion.

Therefore, the most expedient test method would be to model or build only one weight pair per test.  I agree that Abeling's wheel in the video appears to have been testing different slot profiles.  But then his production model would use as many pairs of the optimal slot profiles as he could assemble on the wheel.

M.

Offline Grimer

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #387 on: April 11, 2009, 04:30:42 PM »
I've come across quite a nice suggestion of how the Bessler wheel could work

http://www.orffyre.com/speculation.html

This represents the essence of the device I feel. If the attachment of the weights was more flexible and a barrier hangs down so they are drawn up vertically to get the full d3/dt3 action, then we have the Abeling arrangement.

Two comments worthy of note:

 His Highness, who possesses all the qualities that a great prince should have, has always had consideration for the inventor, and will not use the machine in any way for fear of the secret being discovered before the inventor had received a reward from foreigners. His Highness, who has a perfect understanding of mathematics, assured me that the machine is so simple that a carpenter's boy could understand and make it after having seen the inside of this wheel, and that he would not risk his name in giving these attestations, if he did not have knowledge of the machine...' - letter from Joseph Fischer to J.T. Desaguliers, 1721.

Orffyreus commented that when the secret is revealed, he is afraid that people will complain that the idea is so simple it is not worth the asking price.

This latter comment has been echoed by Sjack Abeling.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #388 on: April 11, 2009, 05:40:30 PM »
Sorry, @AquariuZ, didn't know you started that idea. Didn't follow the thread too closely so I've missed the exact sequence of events. What we need now is a working model and we should all put our heads together. Good luck.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #389 on: April 11, 2009, 05:43:47 PM »
@mondrasek,

Thank you very much for your willingness to help in sorting out the issues with WM2D. Could you please remove the motor in @Cherryman's KAD9 and KAD10 and replace it by a pin. How do you actually do that? Thanks in advance.

 

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