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Author Topic: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant  (Read 668215 times)

Offline broli

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #975 on: April 21, 2009, 01:14:22 AM »
Here is the most simplest model you can make. No collisions, no polygonal shapes. As you can see it just oscillates back and forth. With friction added it will find equilibrium and stop.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #976 on: April 21, 2009, 01:14:34 AM »
Here is the proof. What I am saying is correct.

I have mounted the weights on a straight wheel in the correct positions relative to the axle.

If you click run it will turn to the right initially and wobble until it finds its balance as expected.

Hans von Lieven

The example you give is obvious but it differs from the example we're discussing. Constraints are different. Besides, we already know that rigid joints should never be Optimized and the air resistance should always be turned on.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #977 on: April 21, 2009, 01:19:47 AM »
Here is the most simplest model you can make. No collisions, no polygonal shapes. As you can see it just oscillates back and forth. With friction added it will find equilibrium and stop.

That isn't the same either. Constraints differ. We already know that constraints such as these don't lead to a working model.

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #977 on: April 21, 2009, 01:19:47 AM »
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Offline broli

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #978 on: April 21, 2009, 01:20:59 AM »
That isn't the same eithe. Constraints differ. We already know that constraints such as these don't lead to a working model.

Are you looking for a real working model or how far you can squeeze wm2d to give you a working model?

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #979 on: April 21, 2009, 01:21:36 AM »
OK, cleaned it up a little, resetting speeds and just two balls so you can see.

Goes CCW, slows down, goes CW, slows down. Then the top ball starts spinning on its own.

Hans is right... However, if you made each arm into a single polygon you may get more accurate results.

I do not know why but as I mentioned way back the shape of the curve of the holders is inverted and should be curved towards the outside of the rim, not the other way around.

Omnibus, what were you seeing that prompted you that this may be it?

What were you seeing?

No, that isn't it either. The common action of all the spheres is needed.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #979 on: April 21, 2009, 01:21:36 AM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #980 on: April 21, 2009, 01:24:55 AM »
Are you looking for a real working model or how far you can squeeze wm2d to give you a working model?

I'm looking for an analytical solution. I've said that many times. In lack of analytical solution the palliative solution is to try to model it somehow. Analytical solution is the answer and it will solve a lot of trial and error which will lead us nowhere.

Offline AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #981 on: April 21, 2009, 01:26:18 AM »
No, that isn't it either. The common action of all the spheres is needed.

It would help if you disclosed what the model runs like... With all the balls it renders veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery slooooooooooooooooowly.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #981 on: April 21, 2009, 01:26:18 AM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #982 on: April 21, 2009, 01:28:05 AM »
@broli,

That way of forcing the balls along a trajectory is very interesting. How did you do it?

Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #983 on: April 21, 2009, 01:32:46 AM »
The example you give is obvious but it differs from the example we're discussing. Constraints are different. Besides, we already know that rigid joints should never be Optimized and the air resistance should always be turned on.

No it does not. All your constraints do is they cost you energy. If there isn't any surplus without constraints there will be less with. You show me how a constraint can add energy into a system and I will be converted.

Hans von Lieven

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #983 on: April 21, 2009, 01:32:46 AM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #984 on: April 21, 2009, 01:34:18 AM »
It would help if you disclosed what the model runs like... With all the balls it renders veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery slooooooooooooooooowly.

Yeah, it renders it very slowly. Don't know why.

Offline broli

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #985 on: April 21, 2009, 01:34:53 AM »
@Omnibus: Closed curved slot joint and copy/paste.

I have to make another one that acts more like the complex models you guys have made. That is one that falls a few degrees at the top, but that's for tomorrow

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #985 on: April 21, 2009, 01:34:53 AM »
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Offline AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #986 on: April 21, 2009, 02:00:52 AM »
No it does not. All your constraints do is they cost you energy. If there isn't any surplus without constraints there will be less with. You show me how a constraint can add energy into a system and I will be converted.

Hans von Lieven

If you put somebody in a constraint they will go red with rage and generate heat.

Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #987 on: April 21, 2009, 02:04:11 AM »
They still have to be fed though to keep it up  ;D ;D ;D

Hans

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #988 on: April 21, 2009, 02:10:38 AM »
No it does not. All your constraints do is they cost you energy. If there isn't any surplus without constraints there will be less with. You show me how a constraint can add energy into a system and I will be converted.

Hans von Lieven

It's not a matter of energy spent. I gave an example somewhere in the earlier pages (don't remember what page it was) with a ball losing the same energy but when constraints are imposed the ball is displaced substantially sideways which doesn't occur without constraints. Modeling the same constraints is crucial.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #989 on: April 21, 2009, 02:11:36 AM »
@Omnibus: Closed curved slot joint and copy/paste.

I have to make another one that acts more like the complex models you guys have made. That is one that falls a few degrees at the top, but that's for tomorrow

Please explain it in more detail. That's a very useful tool.

OK, here's how it works. A trajectory is drawn using Closed Curved Slot joint. Each such trajectory has one point that characterizes it. Separately draw a circle and then move the center of the circle and overlay it over the said characteristic point. Then go to Object>Attach To Body (or Ctrl+B) and you're done with one ball constrained along the given trajectory. If you want more balls constrained along the same trajectory just copy/paste the first one and overlay them.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 02:57:54 AM by Omnibus »

 

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