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Author Topic: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant  (Read 795832 times)

broli

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #795 on: April 15, 2009, 10:05:51 PM »
To put it bluntly, lack of a solution will simply kill the project.

I agree. Someone needs to convince Sjack to disclose the mechanics behind his wheel and then we can live in peace  ;D.

Alexioco

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #796 on: April 15, 2009, 10:07:02 PM »
Hi all  8), this topic seems to be getting more interesting as I read, i would help out with the modeling but every time i tried to get w2md, it failed...


Alex

Cherryman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #797 on: April 15, 2009, 10:11:37 PM »
I agree. Someone needs to convince Sjack to disclose the mechanics behind his wheel and then we can live in peace  ;D.

You know what i think:

I Think he is watching this.. and smiling! .. Because when he speakes the truth.. He cannot talk about it himself due to contracts, but i think he is a kind of person who likes this.. and somewhere in his mind would like us to find the clue..  But not to soon ;-)


broli

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #798 on: April 15, 2009, 10:14:06 PM »
You know what i think:

I Think he is watching this.. and smiling! .. Because when he speakes the truth.. He cannot talk about it himself due to contracts, but i think he is a kind of person who likes this.. and somewhere in his mind would like us to find the clue..  But not to soon ;-)



I agree. I would be having the fun of my life seeing others trying to solve my riddle. But I think the world is in a too big of a shit hole to be playing games right now.

hartiberlin

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #799 on: April 15, 2009, 10:24:54 PM »
@All,

We have to solve the following problem: Is there an egg-shaped (this is how we chose to call it) contour which will ensure that at any position of the spheres in Abeling’s model the generalized mass times the generalized right-hand lever arm length (to the right of the center of mass, that is) will be persistently greater than that generalized product on the left hand side of the system center of mass. This is a slightly topological problem but also looks more like a variational problem. Wonder if that can be solved numerically by the method of least or boundary elements? Of course, an analytical solution would be much more preferable. If no such solution exists, we’re in serious trouble regarding this project. To put it bluntly, lack of a solution will simply kill the project.

Well, I guess there is no working solution for the egg shaped Abeling wheel.
Also if using elliptical pathes it just does not work.
It just comes down to keel itself and comes to a stillstand,
which is predicted by normal gravity science.


Maybe he has hidden in his patent, why he uses 2 wheels instead of one.
This could have an effect of transfering weights from one wheel to the other
or something simular.

Why would he otherwise use 2 wheels if one could also do it ??

I guess this is his secret if his 2 wheel devic really works.

Regards, Stefan.

hartiberlin

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #800 on: April 15, 2009, 10:26:14 PM »
Lol this is indeed strange. The anomaly is back with that model. I even changed the pin joints with two rods and get the same numbers. Increased the accuracy and also get the same numbers. I'm clueless whether it's another wm2D quirk or the real deal. I'm going to do some force analysis to have an idea of the forces that are involved.

Attached is again a slightly tweaked model with energy calculation and more round up masses. At impact the cop is 2.2 or about 230% overunity.

Stefan even at 0.1 elasticity it gives overunity. If it doesn't just increase the mass of the spoke  ;D.

xnonix_rueda_overunityV2.wm2d

Can you explain this xnonix_rueda_overunityV2.wm2d
a bit more ?

How did you model this and how did you set the calculation display boxes in there ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

broli

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #801 on: April 15, 2009, 10:27:49 PM »
Can you explain this xnonix_rueda_overunityV2.wm2d
a bit more ?

How did you model this and how did you set the calculation display boxes in there ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

Lol I was quite surprised you mentioned that as this is an ancient model that once got posted on this forum. So please ignore it. I will change the post with the correct model.

hartiberlin

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #802 on: April 15, 2009, 10:52:14 PM »
Lol I was quite surprised you mentioned that as this is an ancient model that once got posted on this forum. So please ignore it. I will change the post with the correct model.

Yes, I still remember it, but wasit ever validated, that it really worked with this overunity factor ?

broli

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #803 on: April 15, 2009, 10:58:59 PM »
Yes, I still remember it, but wasit ever validated, that it really worked with this overunity factor ?

Nope it was heavily flawed. I was still a newbie back then.

Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #804 on: April 15, 2009, 11:28:32 PM »
Well, I guess there is no working solution for the egg shaped Abeling wheel.
Also if using elliptical pathes it just does not work.
It just comes down to keel itself and comes to a stillstand,
which is predicted by normal gravity science.


Maybe he has hidden in his patent, why he uses 2 wheels instead of one.
This could have an effect of transfering weights from one wheel to the other
or something simular.

Why would he otherwise use 2 wheels if one could also do it ??

I guess this is his secret if his 2 wheel devic really works.

Regards, Stefan.


I'm not sure about that. Until I see a rigorous solution to this problem it isn't evident to me at all that there isn't a path which will ensure the mentioned non-equality. Seems there's something overlooked in these devices or deliberately withheld because of various social reasons. All is within classical mechanics, nothing fancy, but either overlooked or deliberately withheld and not pursued when found. As to why two wheels, well, maybe because if it's one wheel it will infringe on other patents or won't be novel since it resembles numerous well-known constructions, nonworking as they may be. Of course, I don't deny that he may be hiding something as most patentees do so that they can sell it as a trade secret. First, however, we have to find a rigorous answer to the obvious problem with the egg-shaped groove, I think, and then pursue the rest.

Thus, we already have in this thread two clearly defined problems for mathematicians versed in calculations in mechanics. These problems may be considered part of theoretical physics despite their practical aspect.

Philip Hardcastle

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #805 on: April 16, 2009, 02:11:20 AM »
@omnibus,

I saw a post by you saying I broke my word.

I take exception at that, it is not the case.

I said ok to you using my email.

I did not agree to be silenced however I did respect your wish not to debate that rubbish.

I have left you to your quest in peace but do not go about attacking my good name.

My problem with you is that you lead a lot of people on with your claim that gravity energy is proved when the paper you showed me is not a proof, it is an opinion, not a good one in mine.

You should not claim to have proof when you do not then you would advance sensible debate on this forum.

Simply saying to all around you that a b or c is proved so lets move on is wrong unless a b or c is actually proved.

Now you gave me a document that you said proved such and then you expect me to agree by being totally quiet about it, well that is simply wrong omni and unfair for you to expect such.

Like I said I wish you luck but my opinion is the same that I believe you are wasting a lot of time when you could pursue better ideas.


Phil

mrsean2k

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #806 on: April 16, 2009, 03:31:50 AM »
@omnibus,

I saw a post by you saying I broke my word.

I take exception at that, it is not the case.

I said ok to you using my email.

I did not agree to be silenced however I did respect your wish not to debate that rubbish.

I have left you to your quest in peace but do not go about attacking my good name.

My problem with you is that you lead a lot of people on with your claim that gravity energy is proved when the paper you showed me is not a proof, it is an opinion, not a good one in mine.

You should not claim to have proof when you do not then you would advance sensible debate on this forum.

Simply saying to all around you that a b or c is proved so lets move on is wrong unless a b or c is actually proved.

Now you gave me a document that you said proved such and then you expect me to agree by being totally quiet about it, well that is simply wrong omni and unfair for you to expect such.

Like I said I wish you luck but my opinion is the same that I believe you are wasting a lot of time when you could pursue better ideas.


Phil

A simple apology for breaking your word would be a lot more palatable than this inelegant wriggle.

You agreed not to debate it here. You insisted on debating the matter despite giving your word - in other words you broke it.

You even apologised for doing so before you started, it's not as if it was accidental:

"Sorry to be blunt, and I know you do not want a debate, but anyone saying that it is proved by that essay is not being rational."

That you decided in retrospect that what you read wasn't worth the promise you made isn't a defence of any kind.

A bit rich to be getting on your high-horse; you did break your word, plain and simole.

hartiberlin

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #807 on: April 16, 2009, 04:51:14 AM »
Hi All,
I have tried to model the Bob machine over here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=2326.msg171876#msg171876

Still need some help with the model.
There is still a motor attached to get the disc to speed
and the rope pulleys are not yet correct, so the weights are not yet
pulled up correctly.

Maybe someone can fix it.
Many thanks in advance.

Regards, Stefan.

LarryC

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #808 on: April 16, 2009, 05:02:54 AM »
The statements of the main two inventors about CF slam energy should also be ignored.

I'm sorry Mr. Omnibus, I did not know. If I understand you correctly, the inventors of OU devices should pass their statements by you for approval.

I sure wish that Stefan would post this info on the home page, so that the poor ignorant hardworking, actual builders, inventors understand the rules.

Regards, Larry

X00013

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #809 on: April 16, 2009, 06:16:30 AM »
@Omni , ur havin too much fun with this, I just had to chime in. If you want to draft try http://www.solidedge.eu.com/isapi/pagegen.dll/pages?page=free_2d

Its a free full working 30 day trial, save as dxf, then import from working model. I've been running all the various models, in 2d and 3d, with better physics engines than wm2d. If I find somthing  I will post it. I have found the wheel wants to run backwards, kinda reminds me off the "ball race", shorter path or greater distance with gravityt? Speed and distance wins every time! Like u said somewhat, the math of my pc is determining the physics, which reminds me, u all need a kick ass graphics card and kick ass processer and tons of memory to get good results in ANY physics program. thank u n good nite