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Author Topic: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant  (Read 640590 times)

Offline Cherryman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #330 on: April 10, 2009, 08:22:48 PM »
So, how does one get rid of this motor and why was it part of this construction in the first place?

I Use motors to test the path of the balls, sometimes you want to control the speed during designing.

But i also dit think that after you let the motor getted stopped by thiming, it would run free....

Nou you guys say the motor (in this programme) will still cause drag???  ???

Then i have to relook a lot of my designs...     ::)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline mondrasek

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #331 on: April 10, 2009, 08:27:08 PM »
So, how does one get rid of this motor and why was it part of this construction in the first place?

Click on the motor so it is highlighted and hit the delete key on your keyboard.  If you cannot select the motor (sometimes other objects get selected) you can find it in the property box by doubleclicking any object and finding it in the pulldown menu.  Once you have it selected you must close the properties box.  Then hit delete like before.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #332 on: April 10, 2009, 08:28:09 PM »
I Use motors to test the path of the balls, sometimes you want to control the speed during designing.

But i also dit think that after you let the motor getted stopped by thiming, it would run free....

Nou you guys say the motor (in this programme) will still cause drag???  ???

Then i have to relook a lot of my designs...     ::)

Let us see it first without the motor. How do you delete the motor forever and replace it by a pin? That's the first thing to be done. This is a great design and I intuitively feel the answer is somewhere there.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #332 on: April 10, 2009, 08:28:09 PM »
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Offline AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #333 on: April 10, 2009, 08:28:43 PM »
So, how does one get rid of this motor and why was it part of this construction in the first place?

MODEL WITHOUT MOTOR ATTACHED
It accelerates for a few seconds then the path breaks and the spheres violate boundaries.

Please check accuracy settings to be Accuracy -> Custom -> Kutta-Merson (accurate) Fixed @ 0.005s

The motor was there for testing the flow.

A lot of work left to make a decent model out of this.

Offline mondrasek

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #334 on: April 10, 2009, 08:31:34 PM »
MODEL WITHOUT MOTOR ATTACHED

AquariuZ,  the arms on that model are not all the same mass!  A few (3 I think) are waaaay heavier than the others.  That is why I normalized them in my previous modification posted.  Once that is corrected it does not accelerate.

Sorry,

M.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #334 on: April 10, 2009, 08:31:34 PM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #335 on: April 10, 2009, 08:32:45 PM »
Thanks, @AquariuZ, but that's not @Cherryman's design. I'd like to see his first without a motor.

Offline Grimer

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #336 on: April 10, 2009, 08:55:44 PM »
Hi Grimer,
looks good, so it is a right turning cycle process, right ?
How can we make the area inside the curve bigger, for more output ?
Can you please calculate this and let us know, how to do this in the real world ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

Hi Stefan,
I've been swotting up on the history of Johann Bessler. What a fantastic story. It seems to me the evidence of his wheel's reality is very strong indeed. Which can only mean the Sjack has stumbled upon its secret. I suppose someone had to, sooner or later. I shall have to find the time line in relation to Carnot.

Cheers, Frank

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #336 on: April 10, 2009, 08:55:44 PM »
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Offline AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #337 on: April 10, 2009, 09:14:07 PM »
Thanks, @AquariuZ, but that's not @Cherryman's design. I'd like to see his first without a motor.

Hmmm. This is getting confusing. Maybe the KAD deserves a thread of its own as the designs differ

What does Cherryman say?

Offline AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #338 on: April 10, 2009, 09:15:13 PM »
AquariuZ,  the arms on that model are not all the same mass!  A few (3 I think) are waaaay heavier than the others.  That is why I normalized them in my previous modification posted.  Once that is corrected it does not accelerate.

Sorry,

M.

O. Well how do I clean it up? Select all arms and change props?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #338 on: April 10, 2009, 09:15:13 PM »
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Offline mondrasek

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #339 on: April 10, 2009, 09:21:37 PM »
O. Well how do I clean it up? Select all arms and change props?

Yep.  WM2D sometimes assigns different masses to identical objects that are imported from DXF.  Don't know why...

BTW, all the ball/weights are okay.  Just the arms need fixing (or use my previously posted file where I removed the motor).

Also, just some tips:  You have the elasticity on the ramps at 0.  That would make it very "soft."  You'd actually want them to be of a hard material closer to 1.  I personally do not use 0 or 1 for friction or elasticity.  Doing so opens up the possibility that the program might try to divide by zero.  Not sure if it would error out or just not work right.  I put in values like .0001 for 0 and .99 for 1 in those fields.

M.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #340 on: April 10, 2009, 09:22:59 PM »
Hmmm. This is getting confusing. Maybe the KAD deserves a thread of its own as the designs differ

What does Cherryman say?

They are all inspired by Sjack Abeling, aren't they? The problem is that Abeling isn't forthcoming and we have to guess what his design is. @Cheriryman's seems very promising so far. Stefan has more experience with these designs and he's skeptical (too few steel balls, too steep the ascending path and so on). This may be true but the direction I think is promising. Unfortunately, I have no experience with WM2D, in fact, today is the first day I'm using it, and that stands in the way of me being more flexible. Wonder what other programs are out there similar to WM2D, to see if the effects are reproducible.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #340 on: April 10, 2009, 09:22:59 PM »
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Offline AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #341 on: April 10, 2009, 09:26:18 PM »
Yep.  WM2D sometimes assigns different masses to identical objects that are imported from DXF.  Don't know why...

BTW, all the ball/weights are okay.  Just the arms need fixing (or use my previously posted file where I removed the motor).

Got it thanks.

I deleted all vectors and momentum as well and let it go. It does not doe anything, and then very slowly starts to rotate LEFT. Uhuh.

I am going to experiment with the barriers as someone pointed out the top one seems to be much steeper.

Still confident this is the concept though. The rest is just tweaking until you get it right.

Look closely.

Offline AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #342 on: April 10, 2009, 09:28:11 PM »
They are all inspired by Sjack Abeling, aren't they? The problem is that Abeling isn't forthcoming and we have to guess what his design is. @Cheriryman's seems very promising so far. Stefan has more experience with these designs and he's skeptical (too few steel balls, too steep the ascending path and so on). This may be true but the direction I think is promising. Unfortunately, I have no experience with WM2D, in fact, today is the first day I'm using it, and that stands in the way of me being more flexible. Wonder what other programs are out there similar to WM2D, to see if the effects are reproducible.

Eh no, his KAD had nothing to do with Abeling as he explained earlier.

I just do not want to cloud the concept I am trying but I leave it up to him.

Offline Grimer

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #343 on: April 10, 2009, 10:05:53 PM »
Hi Stefan,
I've been swotting up on the history of Johann Bessler. What a fantastic story. It seems to me the evidence of his wheel's reality is very strong indeed. Which can only mean the Sjack has stumbled upon its secret. I suppose someone had to, sooner or later. I shall have to find the time line in relation to Carnot.

Cheers, Frank

Carnot's work was over a century after Bessler's wheel so Bessler must have developed his wheel by trial and error. I suppose what has prevented its re-discovery until now is the idea the a perpetual motion machine driven by gravity is impossible. demonstrably this is not the case as more perceptive people, like Harvey on Fizzx, realise.

Offline mondrasek

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #344 on: April 10, 2009, 10:17:34 PM »
Still confident this is the concept though. The rest is just tweaking until you get it right.

I completely agree that you have modeled the intended path of weights in the wheel shown in the video.  Fantastic job with both the detective work and the models.  I just hope this wheel is representative of what Abeling says actually works, and not just attempts from before he found the key concept.  I also still wonder if the pictures are missing some other mechanism that works in conjunction with the wheel slots and static guides.

Remember that finding the right geometry for the slot profiles is probably as important as the guide profiles and angles.

One more pointer to speed your efforts.  If every slot is the same, this type of wheel should work with only two slots and weights 180 degrees apart.  Testing a single pair set up might go quicker.  Because if one weight cannot lift one opposite weight, eight of the same will still not lift eight more.

Good luck!  I hope you beat Abeling to his unveiling!

M.

 

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