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Author Topic: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant  (Read 662394 times)

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2220 on: March 12, 2010, 06:29:21 PM »
@P-Motion,

If you know CATIA please draw an exact dxf of your device so that we can import it in WM2D. Not all dxf files work with WM2D, though, but it's worth trying. This will save you efforts in building unnecessary variants.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2221 on: March 12, 2010, 10:05:41 PM »
Quote
The alleged invention of the "fall and Lift control system" was done towards the end of 2006

In November of 2007, an unknown Dutch inventor Sjack Abeling made the rather outlandish claim he had found a way to rotate and accelerate a large wheel by using twin weights and earths gravity as only propulsion. At the time this was merely ruled a hoax. We have heard nothing from the inventor or his machine since that I am aware of.

The first Weight Power Plant was expected to go online in May 2009. The location for the construction of the first Weight Power Plant was going to be the province of Groningen, the Netherlands." There has been no news of any such construction or new online power plants taking place in Groningen.

Don't you think 4 years is long enough to to see that this is a non-runner if not an outright scam. Consider the amount of advertising O-U achieved during the run of this topic.

I have said it before and I will say it again; members of this forum are wasting their time as well as mine as a subscriber. This machine will never work no matter how hard you try; it is and always will be a typical changing height for width scenario which Bessler himself stated will never work.

Ralph

Maybe it is time to talk about how and why it don't work.

Alan

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2222 on: March 12, 2010, 10:30:32 PM »
@ABHammer,

I've given ample arguments as to why this machine should work. The problem is that to make it properly it requires special watchmaking skills. Like I've said before, not even just any watchmaker can manufacture a Patek Philippe or a Vaucheron Constantin let alone a device so temperamental as a working gravity wheel. Thus, the problem is purely engineering and manufacturing one.

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2222 on: March 12, 2010, 10:30:32 PM »
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Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2223 on: March 13, 2010, 03:40:06 AM »
@ABHammer,

I've given ample arguments as to why this machine should work. The problem is that to make it properly it requires special watchmaking skills. Like I've said before, not even just any watchmaker can manufacture a Patek Philippe or a Vaucheron Constantin let alone a device so temperamental as a working gravity wheel. Thus, the problem is purely engineering and manufacturing one.

Omnibus

I have looked very carefully at the wheel design and a watchmaker skill is not needed but precise tracks would be needed to reduce as much friction at possible. But the problem is it's just not enough lift. I know how it is suppose to work, and I would call it flawed. That would be the reason we haven't heard anything else. My opinion is, it was posted in hopes of somebody would be able to correct the flaws in the design.
 To push strait up an up track is allot tougher than going up an gradual incline. The attempts to replicate the wheel tell this as well.
 So unless proved otherwise I will have to stand with Ralph on this one.

Alan

PS
 Jim this is not your string and I was not talking to you. I was talking to Omnibus. So it is best not to talk to me either.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2224 on: March 13, 2010, 04:01:39 AM »
@ABHammer,

Like I said, it has been proved otherwise. I'm not concerned whether or not someone like Abeling or anybody else has made it. Variants of this design are known for centuries and I have shown that only those designs work which maintain persistent violation of the lever rule, that is, center of mass is persistently sideways on one side of the axle for any position of the wheel. That's a systematical, irrefutable approach to the question and we now have it solved. It's a different story whether or not someone recently has been able to make a working rig (I don't know historically).

Your concern about the ramp being too steep is legitimate but that would be an issue only when we see everything else made with a watchmaking precision. With all due respect, all we see so far, including the alleged Abeling's wheel, is too crude to only consider the ramp to be the culprit. I guess, we need someone like that guy, if you remember, showing a mechanism ostensibly demonstrating Steorn's Orbo (not the eOrbo) effect to get interested in this project. Wonder what happened with him.

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2224 on: March 13, 2010, 04:01:39 AM »
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Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2225 on: March 13, 2010, 04:30:41 AM »
Omnibus

 I could build that machine with ease and precision. I am a blacksmith of 24 years and specialize with medieval armor recreation. But my plate is too full to try it, and it doesn't pass my pretest either. But I will say some parts on it that have been tried before have some merit but not in this configuration.

Here is a photo of how precise I do my work. I put the same effort in my real builds, not to be confused with my test builds. Reproductions of the Earl of Warwick legs. Hand made, no machine work except for buffing.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2226 on: March 13, 2010, 04:43:28 AM »
@ABHammer,

This is a beautiful piece of armor, indeed, but I'm afraid we need a different kind of skills, connected with making moving mechanisms. Your creations seem more like works of art, don't they? One never knows, however. Look at Leonardo da Vinci -- a genius as an artist and at the same time quite skillful in some technical matters.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2226 on: March 13, 2010, 04:43:28 AM »
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Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2227 on: March 13, 2010, 05:10:37 AM »
Omnibus

 Thanks, Leonardo Deviance is one of my historic heroes. I also specialize in historic machinery. I have built parts for a rev-war 3 pound cannon's. I lost my photos due to a computer crash, or I would post them for it was every metal piece on it, except the cannon itself. Next time I get to KY I will go by and take new photos. I will be finishing a few of my wheels next week. Maybe I will show one. ;D

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2228 on: March 13, 2010, 05:37:02 AM »
@P-Motion,

How do you mean Abeling hasn't the time anymore? Has he abandoned the project or he's too busy to talk to anybody? I've spoken with him too, I guess, a year ago and even wanted to visit him but he declined fearing his investors won't like it. Especially showing me the wheel. Don't know what happened since.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 06:11:54 AM by Omnibus »

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2228 on: March 13, 2010, 05:37:02 AM »
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Offline Cloxxki

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2229 on: March 13, 2010, 12:46:10 PM »
ABHammer, you may have touched on this before. Did you take into consideration perhaps the the Abeling style self runner might need, on top of it's super low friction, a significant kick-start velocity to come into a "zone"? The slower the wheel turns, the more one weight is lifting the other, over the whole height. At high speed, the weight would get itself reset easily, the remaining question mark being it's velocity relative to the rest of the wheel when hitting 12:00. I can see a velocity loss, obviously, but also a time GAIN. If the gain could be used somehow, or the initial 12:00 path be steeper, then I have some hope of syncronization with excess energy. The way I visualize it though, is as a deep high speed flow. Abeling's references to seeking extremely low friction materials would imply not just higher efficiency and durability of his machine, but more likely in my eyes, attaining high rpm's without friction building up faster than the gains. You'll be aware of especially air friction ramping up with speed, offering all kinds of bodies a velocity ceiling. Parashutists, large hail ice balls, cars (100bhp 210kph, 1000bhp 400kph), etc.
My gut is telling me Abeling found, or is searching a way to get high rpm at lower friction than his gains. Such a wheel would be vastly different in working from Bessler's, or simply an inferior version making it rely on high speed rather than inherent over balance.

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2230 on: March 13, 2010, 02:10:33 PM »
ABHammer, you may have touched on this before. Did you take into consideration perhaps the the Abeling style self runner might need, on top of it's super low friction, a significant kick-start velocity to come into a "zone"? The slower the wheel turns, the more one weight is lifting the other, over the whole height. At high speed, the weight would get itself reset easily, the remaining question mark being it's velocity relative to the rest of the wheel when hitting 12:00. I can see a velocity loss, obviously, but also a time GAIN. If the gain could be used somehow, or the initial 12:00 path be steeper, then I have some hope of syncronization with excess energy. The way I visualize it though, is as a deep high speed flow. Abeling's references to seeking extremely low friction materials would imply not just higher efficiency and durability of his machine, but more likely in my eyes, attaining high rpm's without friction building up faster than the gains. You'll be aware of especially air friction ramping up with speed, offering all kinds of bodies a velocity ceiling. Parashutists, large hail ice balls, cars (100bhp 210kph, 1000bhp 400kph), etc.
My gut is telling me Abeling found, or is searching a way to get high rpm at lower friction than his gains. Such a wheel would be vastly different in working from Bessler's, or simply an inferior version making it rely on high speed rather than inherent over balance.

Greetings Cloxxki

 You are correct with Bessler's last 2 wheels IMO, but his first 2 wheels did not need a push, according to reports. So his last two wheels need a push to start reactions. From what I have seen Abeling would need one hell of a push to get reactions. I look at it like the walking up a hill story. You have ten steps in a wheel like ten steps up a small hill. If you go ten steps forward and one step back, it will not run, or you don't make it over the hill. But if you go 11 steps forward and one step back it will run, for you will have exceeded the minimum line to overcome the resistance and it is down hill from there.

Alan   

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2230 on: March 13, 2010, 02:10:33 PM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2231 on: March 13, 2010, 06:42:46 PM »
You mean his work on his OU wheel does not allow him to spend time with visitors, correct? Not that he is busy at work, doing something else, and can't do any more OU work?

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2232 on: March 13, 2010, 07:33:08 PM »
  Omnibus,
 i've talked withAbeling and he told me he hasn't the time any more.
I have challenged Alan to an open build off on youtube. This way, he and I can demonstrate what we know.
 I'll still work on this but would be building what i believe is Bessler's wheel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laPqtUMk5gA


                                                                                    Jim

 Greetings All

 Jim has challenged me on youtube. This is not going to happen for why should I give away what I may have already achieved on a foolish challenge. But when I am ready I will post with security.

Alan

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2233 on: March 13, 2010, 10:20:27 PM »
Now, that's very interesting what you're saying, if I understand you correctly. Abeling has just wetted some people's imagination by splashing an untested idea in the cyberspace, waiting for someone to bring it to fruition while he goes on with his regular job unrelated to OU. Is that underhanded or what? Several people have expressed here and in other boards the concern that some "inventors" might be doing just this -- put forth an idea, wait for someone to actually build the device and then claim priority. If that's the case with Sjack Abeling that's most despicable. Wasn't he supposed to build the first gravity plant and didn't he write he's doing that in conjunction with major companies having the approval of the Dutch government to use the national grid for that purpose? So, all that turns out to be one big fat lie, is that it?

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2234 on: March 14, 2010, 03:01:21 AM »
@P-Motion,

Quote
... as one weight would always be performing work.

Now, this I don't see how would happen. Periodically, that is. Always spontaneously restoring what's been lost. Need to see this in a sim. Can't you use AutoCAD and draw it?

 

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