Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Tesla Paper

Free Energy Book

Get paid

Donations

Please Donate for the Forum.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.(Admin)

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 893856
  • *Total Topics: 15705
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 0
  • *Guests: 12
  • *Total: 12

Author Topic: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant  (Read 635208 times)

Offline fletcher

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 399
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2190 on: March 05, 2010, 11:45:12 PM »
The truth seems something you are not well acquainted with omnibus - not in a practical mechanical sense anyway - there is no extra Ke from balls following different tracks starting & finishing at the same heights - you have simply manipulated a slope, time & speed differential into a hypothesis about greater average Ke [which no one has disagreed with btw as it's obvious] & promoted that premiss of greater average Ke as being somehow meaningful & called it a clear demonstration of violation of CoE derived from Pe - since you can't use Ke, except in a physical contact & exchange of energy sense i.e. to do work, then it cannot be accumulated to give more work which is what your bogus claims are somehow promoting by quoting averages, if you could but think of a way to use it.

You'd have more success making a wheel turn by unlocking the energy trapped in the math than looking for a real energy source.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Cloxxki

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 825
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2191 on: March 06, 2010, 12:32:40 AM »
I tried, but cannot see how Ombibus would NOT be a misinformation agent. No-one is that well-spoken, yet so misinformed, and then stubborn about it without burdened by havig to found his claims with substance.

At first he seemed like a knowledgeable FE advocate, ut along the way I found him calling OU on pretty much everything. I started out seing OU in ever proposition also, but am learning to not put my hopes up, and ask myself and investors questions that, if well answered, would convince me.

I don't think I've ever had to ignore a poster online before, although I know I've been the subject of a block more than once. I am not a fan of censorship, but as misinformation agents can just claim general ignorance, what should a site like this do?

In the mean time, Abeling hasn't stepped forward yet. We don't know whether he's really managed OU or not. Let alone how he's done it. So far, this thread is a failure, then.

Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2192 on: March 06, 2010, 12:53:06 AM »
@Cloxxki,

You're looking for a practical answer and what we're discussing right now is a purely theoretical stuff. Please, ignore it. I asked you something on the practical side but you didn't notice it perhaps. Ignore this theoretical discussion and let's get to the practical side of it.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2192 on: March 06, 2010, 12:53:06 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2193 on: March 06, 2010, 12:57:59 AM »
The truth seems something you are not well acquainted with omnibus - not in a practical mechanical sense anyway - there is no extra Ke from balls following different tracks starting & finishing at the same heights - you have simply manipulated a slope, time & speed differential into a hypothesis about greater average Ke [which no one has disagreed with btw as it's obvious] & promoted that premiss of greater average Ke as being somehow meaningful & called it a clear demonstration of violation of CoE derived from Pe - since you can't use Ke, except in a physical contact & exchange of energy sense i.e. to do work, then it cannot be accumulated to give more work which is what your bogus claims are somehow promoting by quoting averages, if you could but think of a way to use it.

You'd have more success making a wheel turn by unlocking the energy trapped in the math than looking for a real energy source.

Like I said to @Cloxxki, this is a purely theoretical discussion and can hardly be used for practical purposes to build a working device. That lack of immediate practicality, as I said many times, doesn't at all invalidate it or make it unimportant in scientific terms. On the contrary, this and especially the other proof for the violation of CoE, has profound, far-reaching consequences for science far beyond any concrete utilitarianism. This has to be understood well so that the important pursuits are not mixed up making the confusion even greater than it is.

Offline fletcher

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 399
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2194 on: March 06, 2010, 01:39:47 AM »
I guess we'll have to wait & see if your epiphany sinks in omnibus, to anyone else but you, & catches hold in the physics world as other than a passing abstract thought - then someone might take up the batton & run on with it & sell it as something actually of fundamental & far-reaching importance as you claim - somehow I doubt it's going to set anyone alight because averages are meaningless in this context & is a misappropriation of math.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2194 on: March 06, 2010, 01:39:47 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2195 on: March 06, 2010, 03:18:51 AM »
See, math is only a helping hand in physics. That's just a tool. Math doesn't make physics. Physics makes math.

Also, usually scientific discoveries have no practical value in a sense of having direct utilitarian application. This latest one we discussed here is of this type. Scientific discoveries often but not always are the basis of technologies but more importantly they serve us to understand the world better. In this instance, now that we already know CoE can be violated, our perspectives are widened and we feel much freer and expectant of approaches, even in practical sense, that will bring us to new levels of our existence.

Now that we know perpetuum mobile is possible in principle we should not waste time to implement that knowledge in producing a practical device.

Like I said, the best approach so far is to seek in concrete terms a construction which  demonstrates a persistent violation of the lever rule. I've already shown initial steps of making a model to that effect. As I said, in that model the greatest problem is keeping the upper part of the ramp in place. Let's discuss now this concrete technical problem.

Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2196 on: March 06, 2010, 03:50:29 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2197 on: March 08, 2010, 09:33:21 PM »
Just wanted to mention that the "high road and low road" effect has already been discussed (http://www.physics4all.co.il/open.php?link=606) and has been tried unsuccessfully in the so-called "classic overbalanced wheel" (http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/art.htm).

Of course, we already know, that prior to this discussion it hasn't been noticed that the brachistochrone problem which maximizes the above effect, although well understood mathematically, has been overlooked as a violation of CoE in physics. Simanek's explanation is no exception in that respect as is his incorrect assessment of other devices.

We also now know that, although CoE can be violated in the above way, its dierct application for making a working OU device isn't straightforward.



P.S. The above text may be ignored by @Cloxxki and others who are only interested in direct technical solutions.

Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2198 on: March 08, 2010, 09:51:41 PM »
In terms of practicality, the greater problem, as I already said, is keeping in place the upper part of the track in a device similar to that of Sjack Abeling which seems so far to minimize friction the most (I already gave twice links to that device).

Unfortunately, the ramp problem is probably the insurmountable obstacle in the oldest known unbalanced wheel -- Bhaskara's wheel (http://keelynet.wordpress.com/2009/10/09/bhaskaras-wheel-interesting-claim-of-replication/) -- which is probably the ultimate in minimizing friction. How does one make the liquid on the left stay closer to the axle?

Another  problem with the Bhaskara's wheel is that it cannot be studies theoretically, using WM2D. You may recall, I defined a rule which is a test for an unbalanced wheel to be OU -- a wheel demonstrating persistent violation of lever rule (whereby wheel's center of mass is persistently sideways on one side of the axle) at any angle of rotation, is an OU wheel. Using WM2D one can easily prove that Sjack Abeling's device is OU (certain trajectories of the balls being more efficient than others) by observing that it demonstrates a persistent violation of the lever rule at every angle of rotation. Like I said, WM2D program cannot be used to study Bhaskara's wheel in this way although it would be quite curious to see how the center of mass refers to the axis of rotation at different angles of rotation of that wheel too. It very well may be that certain constructions would offer a better discrepancy (that is, greater extent of the desired violation). The mentioned practical lack of friction makes it a very attractive object of study, though.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2198 on: March 08, 2010, 09:51:41 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Cloxxki

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 825
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2199 on: March 09, 2010, 12:21:00 AM »
I sympathize. You are dilusional, and no-one but you can see it. In your own eyes you're so smart and can see all the greatness others are seemingly just ignoring.
Dig up all of internet, my 50,000 or more forums posts over the past decade, and catch me expressing myself towards someone this strongly. I am a patient man, but can't tolerate intensional misinformation. You ought to know better, and no sincere thinker can explain a good idea this badly.

A steeper or deeper path is nothing more than a earlier energy conversion. Without friction, height is simply converted into velocity. A ramp can take KE with vertical path component, and store it in a horizontally moving object.
Horizontal displacement, as vital as it is in our everyday life, living on the surface of our friction infested planet, is useless in physics. Horizontal velocty is like a state, it does nothing. Brings nothing. All you do to it, will rob it of KE without any gains.
A weight one foot from level ground needs to reach the finishline at level ground, 10 feet out. The fastest route, without going under ground, is steep down, and then levels towards the finish. Get that max velovity (x=1/2gt2) and use it to cross the distance in a short time. Finish line still has this same max velocity, in a no friction environment. If you get to go underground, you may get there a bit quicker still. Go 3 foot underground, reach 2x max speed, travel the next 8-9 feet at that speed, and then go steep up to level ground, and beat the above ground fastest time. In the latter case, 4x more PE was converted into KE. That's how the speed got into the weight. You just got to give the 300% back at the end again, and end up with 100% speed. You don't get speed for free if you need to dig a well, jump into it, and then climb out. In the low road case it's a quick transition, but still not for free. In stead of digging the well, one could as well climb a pole.

I will not ignore misinformation when I see it. Tolerating a lie, not fighting to identify it, is to be part of the lie. This is not a personal game, or an ego thing. In the free energy case, misinformation is a crime to humanity. Even if unintentional (I'm not the best informed thinker myself), it should be identifying where and as it occurs.

Go promote OU where it has actual merit. OU doesn't need your single sided hurrays. People are paid well to ridicule the OU movement just this way.

Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2200 on: March 09, 2010, 12:42:47 AM »
No, no, @Cloxxki, like I said, don't bother, that's not for you. That's theory. Stick to the practical side of this issue.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2200 on: March 09, 2010, 12:42:47 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2201 on: March 09, 2010, 02:08:04 AM »
@P-Motion,

Great build. The problem, as I see it, is in the lack of a ramp. Can you simulate it with WM2D? If you can, see if the center of mass is persistently sideways to the axle at any position of the arm. If that's the case you're there. If not, a suitable ramp has to be added to maintain that persistence.

Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2202 on: March 09, 2010, 02:03:48 PM »
@P-Motion,

I tried to draw it in WM2D but didn't come out quite right. Has to be drawn first in AutoCAD or some of the solids. We had very skillful people here using WM2D, maybe they can help. It's really necessary to see if this construction maintains persistent sideways position of center of mass w/ respect to axle at all positions of the rotating arm. That's the problem of all devices that have been tried and have not worked -- more important than friction, the center of mass has shifted when they were turning and hasn't stayed always sideways on one side of the axle. Abeling's device is an exception if the trajectory of the balls is properly maintained, some trajectories being more efficient than others. All that is due to the proper form and position of the ramp. I don't see how a device without that will work.

As for what you call "reciprocating potential" I don't at all understand what you mean. Maybe you've discussed that earlier but I've missed that discussion.

Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2203 on: March 09, 2010, 06:53:41 PM »
@P-Motion,

Here's one very rudimentary sim in WM2D just to show you what you have to look for and try to avoid. As you can see the center of mass in this sim is shifting with respect to the axle and instead of staying always sideways to the axle it moves from the left to the right of the axle in the course of the sway. Such behavior is trivial and will never cause OU. In order to have OU the device has to maintain permanently the sideways position of the center of mass with respect to the axle. Such device is Sjack Abeling's if one can technically ensure the trajectory of the balls to be permanently along the known trajectory forced by the combined action of the slots and the ramp. That should be the goal in our efforts. Maintaining that permanent trajectory throughout is even more important than decreasing friction.

Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2204 on: March 10, 2010, 02:22:38 AM »
Sorry,@P-Motion, I should've done it earlier and not make you go through the trouble of downloading and installing software. Please see the attached compressed vid (in rar format for being too large as avi) and observe how the mass center floats from the right side downwards and then goes to the left. This behavior of the center of mass should be avoided and the device should always have that mass center uni-directionally sideways with respect to the axle for any position of the moving arm. That's the criterion for a gravity device to be OU.

 

OneLink