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Author Topic: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant  (Read 640638 times)

Offline mondrasek

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2145 on: March 04, 2010, 08:38:09 PM »
You can run but you can't hide. You can't hide even behind the "average" velocity. Because a body with a higher average velocity also has greater kinetic energy than a body with a lower average velocity. How's that?

Omni, please be specific!  You missed the key word again!  Here, I'll fix it for you:

Because a body with a higher average velocity also has greater average kinetic energy than a body with a lower average velocity.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2146 on: March 04, 2010, 09:48:28 PM »
Omni, please be specific!  You missed the key word again!  Here, I'll fix it for you:

Because a body with a higher average velocity also has greater average kinetic energy than a body with a lower average velocity.

So, what do you think you've achieved by this fixing? CoE is still violated. I already said that.

Offline mondrasek

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2147 on: March 04, 2010, 10:07:59 PM »
So, what do you think you've achieved by this fixing? CoE is still violated. I already said that.

Nope.  You are still wrong.  CoE is not violated.  And now you agree that the proper inclusion of the word "average" in fact fixed your incorrect statement.  That is a start.

Having a greater average KE over one path than another from start to finish is not a violation of CoE.

Thanks for coming around.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2147 on: March 04, 2010, 10:07:59 PM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2148 on: March 05, 2010, 12:08:56 AM »
Nope.  You are still wrong.  CoE is not violated.  And now you agree that the proper inclusion of the word "average" in fact fixed your incorrect statement.  That is a start.

Having a greater average KE over one path than another from start to finish is not a violation of CoE.

Thanks for coming around.

Yes it is. Finish the sentence, don't finagle--"Having a greater average KE over one path than another from start to finish" when the two balls expend the same potential energy (starting and ending at the same level) is a violation of CoE.

Offline matrixman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2149 on: March 05, 2010, 12:45:39 AM »
McFly, HELLOOO!!!!!!

Different potentials along the length of the course-different speeds.  Get some graph paper. (Though you probably wouldn't know what to do with it )
http://www.tubechop.com/watch/50539

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2149 on: March 05, 2010, 12:45:39 AM »
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Offline fletcher

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2150 on: March 05, 2010, 12:51:56 AM »
When you work out that vertical distance is the only salient point, then you'll realize that distance horizontally introduces a time factor as a function of slope - potential energy is simply unrealised kinetic energy in waiting therefore we can dispense with it here since they start & finish at the same heights - that means that the yardstick for Ke is velocity from [1/2mv^2] - the velocity at any vertical height regardless of the slope & horizontal displacement is identical.

That is because the ACCELERATION from the gravity field is CONSTANT & always acting vertically i.e. non changing, with NO horizontal component of thrust whatsoever - therefore the vertical height velocity [aka Ke] will be the same at any height regardless of path taken because any side thrust is completely independent of gravity acceleration.

There is no violation of CoE - you have simply failed to account for the frictional forces of the slope providing an upthrust component aswell as a horizontal component which affects the time & distance covered derivatives but not the Kinetic Energy aka velocity.

This has lead you to misinterpret & misrepresent average velocity as a violation of CoE & is meaningless in this context.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2151 on: March 05, 2010, 01:00:17 AM »
McFly, HELLOOO!!!!!!

Different potentials along the length of the course-different speeds.  Get some graph paper. (Though you probably wouldn't know what to do with it )
http://www.tubechop.com/watch/50539

Not at all. Same potential for the two balls. I already explained that.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2151 on: March 05, 2010, 01:00:17 AM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2152 on: March 05, 2010, 01:03:42 AM »
@fletcher, read some standard text and learn what kinetic energy is before repeating over and over again your confused understanding of it.

Also, if friction bothers you observe the problem in absence of friction as variational calculus does.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2153 on: March 05, 2010, 01:13:23 AM »
When two balls start at the same level and end up also at the same, although lower level, the decrease in their potential energy is one and the same no matter along what path they've reached the end level. What has happened inbetween is immaterial regarding their potential energy loss--it's the same for both balls.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2153 on: March 05, 2010, 01:13:23 AM »
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Offline matrixman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2154 on: March 05, 2010, 02:06:37 AM »
Different potentials along the length of the course = different velocities. Still gonna monkey back no?

KE is mass times velocity squared. This value is the same for both balls at the end of the journey.

So since the kinetic energy is the same for both at the end and since there are different potentials for each before the end, where does this leave you? Still need this spelled out for you?


You make me feel like the guy in the blue, whick makes you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn8MkrSO1n0
« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 02:33:44 AM by matrixman »

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2155 on: March 05, 2010, 02:18:15 AM »
Don't repeat that wrong thing. I already explained why. Besides, aside from everything else untrue, even the assertion that the terminal velocities are the same isn't true at all. These velocities obviously have different directions.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2155 on: March 05, 2010, 02:18:15 AM »
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Offline matrixman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2156 on: March 05, 2010, 02:35:02 AM »
Yawn. Different potentials along the length of the course = different velocities.

You make me feel like the guy in the blue, whick makes you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn8MkrSO1n0

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2157 on: March 05, 2010, 02:40:31 AM »
Yawn. Different potentials along the length of the course = different velocities.

You make me feel like the guy in the blue, whick makes you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn8MkrSO1n0

Wrong.

Offline fletcher

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2158 on: March 05, 2010, 03:43:06 AM »
It is common practice for the words velocity & speed to be interchangeable in discussions such as this, though not strictly correct in the true physics sense - everyone knows that omnibus & doesn't take exception.

In the same way omnibus & idiot are interchangeable.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2159 on: March 05, 2010, 03:48:12 AM »
It is common practice for the words velocity & speed to be interchangeable in discussions such as this, though not strictly correct in the true physics sense - everyone knows that omnibus & doesn't take exception.

In the same way omnibus & idiot are interchangeable.

Wrong again, Omnibus and idiot are not interchangeable the way velocity and speed aren't. I told you earlier and now I'll repeat, learn physics to avoid embarrassing yourself with wrong analogies.

 

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