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Author Topic: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant  (Read 677221 times)

Offline Cloxxki

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #1380 on: May 10, 2009, 04:39:30 PM »
@Omnibus
I'm afraid you're over-rating Dutch government's foresight in this matter. Any conspiracies understood to exist in the US, they most likely are not apart of, considered as unreliable and insignificant. We have always been hard to predict in our actions. A small nation, one time a mightly force, now humbly minding its own business.

And perhaps we should not forget the vital role this country has had after WW2 in offering a platform for the European Patent system.

The gains found in such a gravity device may not even end up being lower cost than from a 300 year old Dutch windmill. Abeling seems to have calculated 50% These things seriously GO, you know. Ever been in one? Made from wood and fabric.
I'm sure it's a novel thing to have, a gravity engine, but would it beat the windmills or the solar panel? All it does as far as I can oversee, is offer reason to amend to some basic physical laws which have been correctly devised in the past centuries. A ball rolling down a circular ramp will net zero velocity gained when reaching its starting height at the other side? If the ramp is shaped the same, and it's CF potential is allowed to smoothly flow away, sure.

Abeling's search for high-performance materials indicates that to harness the full potential of his invention (or, unknowing application of the missed formula), he is looking at an advanced machine. Advanced machines are economy as well. Our country has a name to uphold in inventing and producing them. We're a small insignificant coutry, and we love our underdog position. But we strive to be prood, and who know, Abeling may make us proud.
Footnote: if he's a 100% Fries, he's historically not Dutch though, but rather part of a surpressed people himself. They have their own rich culture and language, the latter of which still taught in higher education.

I don't understand any vector speak, but would be wondering if alternative weight paths could show more significant "excess" torque.
Is your position that a formular to trick gravity doesn't exist? Then I'm going to fetch a pen and paper and get started. That's Dutch culture, at least.

If a math programming specialist would be able to help me out, I'm up for the challenge. I've broken other other virgin codes before, and likely defeat doesn't scare me off. It would be logical to first wait until Dusty large-scale replication sees the light though. If it works, we'll want to know why, and why it isn't working even better.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #1381 on: May 10, 2009, 04:43:40 PM »
@All,

Notice also that the result which wm2d yields when comparing the position of the mass center vs. the axle is only conservative. In reality, the effective weight on the left-hand side is even less than that on the right-hand side which makes the discrepancy in question, the cause of the perpetuum mobile effect, even greater.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #1382 on: May 10, 2009, 04:51:48 PM »
@Cloxxki,

Since you're into programming, if I understood you correctly, and are willing to help, could you write a script in AutoCAD to calculate automatically the torques @eisenficker2000 is talking about for various positions of the wheel?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #1382 on: May 10, 2009, 04:51:48 PM »
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Offline i_ron

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #1383 on: May 10, 2009, 05:06:03 PM »
@All,

Notice also that the result which wm2d yields when comparing the position of the mass center vs. the axle is only conservative. In reality, the effective weight on the left-hand side is even less than that on the right-hand side which makes the discrepancy in question, the cause of the perpetuum mobile effect, even greater.

Tis only an illusion. Note that unlike this version below, that doesn't work, the patent shows more weights on the left than on the right...

Ron

Offline eisenficker2000

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #1384 on: May 10, 2009, 05:15:50 PM »
Enclosed the Autocad drawing (as zipped dxf) and its constructed vectors to calculate the torques.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #1384 on: May 10, 2009, 05:15:50 PM »
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Offline ruggero

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #1385 on: May 10, 2009, 06:22:41 PM »
HELLO - Anyone out there?????

I just hate to be neglegted in here ... it's not polite...it's like government do, remember ?...

Soooo – I'll try to post my suggestion again.

Hopefully someone do something about it. Please answer my call.

Quote from: Cloxxki
A moving lower ramp has been suggested before, to harness CF from the weight at 6:00.
You mean me...?

ruggero

Offline petersone

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #1386 on: May 10, 2009, 06:46:59 PM »
Hi Ruggcero
I'll talk to you!!
I can't see from pics.what you are doing,but I can't see that the ball is going to be gaining height.
peter

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #1386 on: May 10, 2009, 06:46:59 PM »
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Offline AEVector

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #1387 on: May 10, 2009, 07:07:59 PM »
Hello,

I created a Working Model simulation of Dusty's version of this gravity wheel (see attached). In the simulation, I added a yellow ball that falls on a platform attached to the circumference of the wheel, making it spin.

This could be helpful for Dusty to try any combination of ramp/track shape to see which works.

To change the shape of the ramps in Working Model 2d, just click on the shape. Then press CTRL-Y. Grab the edge tabs and reshape.

There are two wm2d files. One has the working weights on the wheel. The other doesn't to see the free-wheeling without the weights.

Good luck.

AEVector

Offline ruggero

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #1388 on: May 10, 2009, 07:35:12 PM »
Hi Ruggcero
I'll talk to you!!
I can't see from pics.what you are doing,but I can't see that the ball is going to be gaining height.
peter

Thank you, Petersone...I was beginning to feel kind of out of space...

You drop a (ball) weight on the 'egg' curve (ramp) and see what happens.
Figure stepping on a RAVE, and it will tip into your face..;)

It's a part of a mechanisme that could sling-shoot the weight (ball) at 11:00 over the top.
To do the experiment one does not need to build a wheel – just the 'egg' curve and a (ball) weight.

And perhaps the weight would exit the 'egg' curve right after 06:00 and enter the fixed oval guide.

ruggero 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #1388 on: May 10, 2009, 07:35:12 PM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #1389 on: May 10, 2009, 07:39:52 PM »
Tis only an illusion. Note that unlike this version below, that doesn't work, the patent shows more weights on the left than on the right...

Ron

What i'm saying isn't an illusion but a result of calculated positions of the mass center using wm2d. They are calculated and placed correctly by wm2d unlike other things that program does. As seen, Abeling's wheel, as any such wheel, has the unique property of persistently maintaining the mass center sideways to the right of the axle. This is the right criterion proving it's a perpetuum mobile, not counting the balls on the left and on the right, neither observing the paths they travel. Perpetuum mobile is proven by the analysis applied by @eisenficker2000 but is much more cumbersome in view of lack of suitable software to do the calculations conveniently (as wm2d does regarding the position of center of mass).

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #1390 on: May 10, 2009, 07:41:32 PM »
Enclosed the Autocad drawing (as zipped dxf) and its constructed vectors to calculate the torques.

Thanks for the file. Have you any idea how these calculations can be automated?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #1390 on: May 10, 2009, 07:41:32 PM »
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Offline rlortie

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #1391 on: May 10, 2009, 08:12:27 PM »
Omni,

You have been debating the issues of WM2D for quite some time now. By arguing with Ron your up against a brick wall and wasting a productive builders valued time.

You could have built four of them by now and objectively proved that it will not work!

AEVector's depiction makes it so simple to see that it is fruitless is so obvious I do not understand why this cannot be seen.  You are attempting to lift five weight with the leverage of three, calculate the combined leverage ratio and you will find that you are always attempting to lift more than falling and the leverage will never be  there.

The longer the leverage the less mass you have to lift with and more to lift.

Take away the ramps which in this case are nothing more than a drag and you have Bessler's first MT drawings which has been proven time and time again will not work.

Ralph

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #1392 on: May 10, 2009, 08:30:29 PM »
Omni,

You have been debating the issues of WM2D for quite some time now. By arguing with Ron your up against a brick wall and wasting a productive builders valued time.

You could have built four of them by now and objectively proved that it will not work!

AEVector's depiction makes it so simple to see that it is fruitless is so obvious I do not understand why this cannot be seen.  You are attempting to lift five weight with the leverage of three, calculate the combined leverage ratio and you will find that you are always attempting to lift more than falling and the leverage will never be  there.

The longer the leverage the less mass you have to lift with and more to lift.

Take away the ramps which in this case are nothing more than a drag and you have Bessler's first MT drawings which has been proven time and time again will not work.

Ralph

Like I said, this is not the correct way to prove whether or not the discussed wheel is a perpetuum mobile. The correct scientifically rigorous way is to observe how the center of mass and the axis of rotation relate to each other. It is proved beyond doubt that the wheel in question maintains persistently the sideways position of the mass center with respect to the axis of rotation. This is a categorical proof that the wheel  in question is a perpetuum mobile (that is, that it does work). As I mentioned, this is the easy and convenient and yet rigorous way to prove it's a perpetuum mobile. Another, lengthier way, is to apply the method @eisenficker2000 has applied. The latter, if correctly done, will prove the same thing as the method based on mass center-axle coincidence, namely, that we're dealing with a perpetuum mobile. The important thing here is that even if we are unable to manufacture such a wheel (due to the lack of engineering and mechanical skills) the reality of perpetuum mobile has been proven beyond doubt and that's the important conclusion from the discussion in this thread.

Offline rlortie

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #1393 on: May 10, 2009, 08:44:07 PM »
Omni,

you wrote;
Quote
(due to the lack of engineering and mechanical skills)

That has got to be the most lame duck excuse I have ever heard.  I presume you are referring to yourself as I am sure Dusty, Ron and I consider it an insult.

Just what is it that we lack in skills to build this thing? Speaking for myself, Although I have the skills and resources I will not attempt to build it as I know it will not work. I believe that Dusty will objectively prove this. Of course you can always come back and  say 'He did not try this or that"...

I am out of here!

Ralph

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #1394 on: May 10, 2009, 08:56:17 PM »
Omni,

you wrote;
That has got to be the most lame duck excuse I have ever heard.  I presume you are referring to yourself as I am sure Dusty, Ron and I consider it an insult.

Just what is it that we lack in skills to build this thing? Speaking for myself, Although I have the skills and resources I will not attempt to build it as I know it will not work. I believe that Dusty will objectively prove this. Of course you can always come back and  say 'He did not try this or that"...

I am out of here!

Ralph

Don't try to tell me that if you can't make a working device then it proves there can never be a working device because you're so skilled that if it were possible to make such then you would've certainly made it. The opposite is true. It is proved beyond doubt that such device is real and if the device you've made doesn't work blame it on yourself, your skills and infrastructure you use, never mind how great you personally think they are.

 

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