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Author Topic: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant  (Read 517325 times)

Offline Cherryman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #120 on: April 08, 2009, 02:06:49 AM »
Not sure if i understand it correctly, but could it be something like this?

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7175.msg169167#msg169167

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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #121 on: April 08, 2009, 06:59:04 AM »
@mondrasek and @Cherryman,

There is, intuitively, something very interesting in your idea (I use singular since it appears to be basically the same idea in both). Thus, trivially, as @mr_bojangles says:

Quote
even if all the energy is used by the momentum of the ball falling, it will still only be able to return to the same height it was dropped from

However, if properly timed, it seems that for a moment, when the ball passes through the neutral point the ball is excluded from the system of interest to us, that is the rotating wheel, and the pull of gravity on the system of interest to us will differ from the pull on that system with the ball as part of it. That asymmetry may be thought of as what would keep the setup turning on its own only due to the existence of gravity and not due to an energy supply from a pre-existing energy reservoir. Again, this is only on an intuitive level. It has to be shown, however, how the conservation of momentum isn’t standing in the way; if violation of conservation of momentum is claimed then it has to be demonstrated experimentally.

Offline Philip Hardcastle

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #122 on: April 08, 2009, 07:12:24 AM »
@omnibus,

LOL

Aaaagh, you have converted to the flat earthers!.

As there is no energy in claimed, then Coe says it is just not a goer anyway you rig it.

Phil.

ps talking of asymmetry what did you think of my curled ballistic idea posted on the site (somewhere). No one has claimed the $1,000 I offered.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #122 on: April 08, 2009, 07:12:24 AM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #123 on: April 08, 2009, 07:38:47 AM »
@Philip Hardcastle,

Quote
As there is no energy in claimed, then Coe says it is just not a goer anyway you rig it.

Not always so. There are instances where energy appears only due to a proper construction of the machine enabling displacement under the action of a conservative force without the involvement of a pre-existing energy reservoir. Discontinuous production of such "energy out of nothing" can be readily demonstrated (this is violation of the "conservation" aspect of CoE, not of its "transformation" aspect which can never be violated). So far, however, I haven't seen experimentally demonstrated continuous production of "energy out of noting" (that is, continuous displacement caused by a conservative force only due to proper construction without pre-existing energy reservoir involved) because of various energy losses hindering closing the loop. Closing the loop is a very difficult purely engineering problem, still unresolved. What I said in my earlier posting concerning continuous production of excess energy is only a speculation, something on an intuitive level. Turning it into a working model in flesh and blood is something very, very difficult constructively, something that has never been achieved so far, as far as I know (The claims of that Bob in Canada, Sjack Abeling and several others are still unconfirmed and I'm not counting them at present as anything else but just pure noise)

Offline Philip Hardcastle

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #124 on: April 08, 2009, 07:46:28 AM »
@omni,

I am intrigued, give me an example of an instance, please

Phil

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #124 on: April 08, 2009, 07:46:28 AM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #125 on: April 08, 2009, 07:53:09 AM »
@omni,

I am intrigued, give me an example of an instance, please

Phil

No, I'm not willing to discuss this again. This is a settled issue, discussed in numerous threads and forums. Not again. I'm all set with it and I'm looking forward to these new claims. As you can imagine, I would have paid exactly zero attention to these claims had I not been convinced energy "out of nothing" can be produced even if it's only discontinuously so far.

Offline Philip Hardcastle

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #126 on: April 08, 2009, 08:00:28 AM »
@Omni,

I was not attacking or being rude.

Hope I have not struck a bad note with you.

If you can tell me where I should look then that would be good.

Tell me what you think of Curled Ballistics. In fact have a few shots at me if you want, I need a bit of fire today to make the time go faster.

Regards Phil

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #126 on: April 08, 2009, 08:00:28 AM »
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Offline Grimer

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #127 on: April 08, 2009, 08:06:53 AM »
@ spinner (continued)

It is easy to demonstrate that inertia (mass) can be polarized. If you have a black box full of gyros randomly oriented and in fixed gimbals then the rotational inertia around any axis is the same. If one now points half of the gyros north south and the other half south north so that all axis of rotation are parallel then the rotational inertia perpendicular the axis will be much less than the rotation inertial for planes parallel to the axes.

Also it is possible to demonstrate that one can get energy out of the gravitational field, that one can create a gravitational mill in principle, albeit not one that is economically sensible

You simply have the left side of a vertical annular tube filled with hydrogen and the right hemisphere with the same number of moles of helium. Both have the same number of nucleons but the hydrogen weighs more than the helium therefore the mill will accelerate until the gravitational energy released balances frictional losses at which point it will rotate at constant rpm.

At bottom dead centre you trigger the fusion reaction to turn the hydrogen into helium. You collect the energy from this and return it to the tube at top dead centre.  Energy inputs and outputs are equal. So the left side is always filled with hydrogen and the right with helium.

Now, obviously, such a machine is not a practical proposition. It is merely meant to illustrate the point the mass (inertia) and matter are not indissolubly coupled. Matter is conserved, mass isn't. Mass is a property of matter just like temperature. It's an accident not a substance to use the philosophical terms.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #128 on: April 08, 2009, 08:15:24 AM »
@Philip Hardcastle,

I've written papers on that violation, I have a site with detailed argumentation and so on but I'm reluctant to get into this now. We'll talk about it when the time comes. At present I'd like to see whether or not these several claims for continuous production of excess energy are real. The closest so far that I've seen personally is Reidar Finsrud's but there are still some questions to be answered regarding his contraption. Of course, there cannot be anything more interesting than a gravity "powered" wheel, as advertised in this instance. Too bad everything is shrouded in such secrecy. They think they can make money off of it somehow, that is, off of something inherently free. If these constructors really care about their best interest, instead of hiding it, they should disclose it as soon as possible to as many people as they can possibly reach. This ill-conceived secrecy only hurts their cause, let alone the true interests of society.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #128 on: April 08, 2009, 08:15:24 AM »
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Offline AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #129 on: April 08, 2009, 10:59:16 AM »
Not sure if i understand it correctly, but could it be something like this?

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7175.msg169167#msg169167

Use the energy in the ball (Gravitational and rotary) to lift it independently from the main wheel, Slingshot it and reuse it whit gravity.
So you have the ball force only helping turning the wheel, taking the load off (or minimizing)  the wheel on the way up.


This just about sums it up. I think Abelings wheel is based on this principle and he uses dumbbells.


Offline Cherryman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #130 on: April 08, 2009, 11:04:17 AM »
This just about sums it up. I think Abelings wheel is based on this principle and he uses dumbbells.



Ohhhh... Then I have to hurry  ;D

I was playing with this and simular setups for a month now, had made a prototype with an old harddisk and some "knickers" but the timing and curvature is very difficult. The drawings i posted are just one of the many different setups i tried..  But i keep on trying and will post it in my half baked idears topic.


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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #130 on: April 08, 2009, 11:04:17 AM »
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Offline AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #131 on: April 08, 2009, 11:04:30 AM »
The claims of that Bob in Canada, Sjack Abeling and several others are still unconfirmed and I'm not counting them at present as anything else but just pure noise)

Statement retracted with apologies.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2009, 12:09:49 PM by AquariuZ »

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #132 on: April 08, 2009, 11:35:29 AM »
As I understand it you are in Groningen yourself.

How can you claim Abeling as "noise" when you are not even willing to find his number, contact him, and make an appointment. That is just thick headed and unless you are really willing to add to this project and do something in the real world you are losing whatever respect I had for you to start with.

Fast.

No, I'm not in Groningen at all (I'm not even in Europe). Nevertheless, as I told you, I'm more than willing to visit the guy. I wrote to him telling him that I'd like to visit him and see the device working. Unfortunately, I got no response. I think I told you that. What more can I do? Also, I tried to arrange a visit to the inventor Bob in Canada, I guess, a year ago or so. No luck there either. If you have any ideas just let me know. Mind you, until I see these devices personally or hear from other independent parties whom I trust that they have verified and, even better, reproduced these claims I'll continue to consider them as just noise, like I said.

Offline AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #133 on: April 08, 2009, 12:02:24 PM »
No, I'm not in Groningen at all (I'm not even in Europe).

Then I must have mis interpreted your statement you were a collegue of Eric Bergshoeff at the RUG (Rijks Universiteit Groningen). My apologies.

I know you tried contact via email, but that simply does not work because Sjack is working in his shop almost fulltime. His home number is available on the Internet (make the company address link to the name to the town), please remember timezone is EST+6. If you are really unable to find it I will send you a link via PM. I have his mobile but I cannot give that to you. It may help if you mention where you are calling from to get his attention. Best time to call is around 19:45 his time. Country code is 0031.

He is quite relaxed so you should get an interview or maybe even a visit, in any case I commend your willingness to travel that far.

Please check PM

Offline AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #134 on: April 08, 2009, 12:20:30 PM »
Ohhhh... Then I have to hurry  ;D

The axle area poses a major hurdle.

I have no idea how to get from six to axle to twelve (full "D") unless the sleeve runs all the way through the wheel. If it does it will intersect with the axle.

 ???

 

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