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Author Topic: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant  (Read 514542 times)

Offline Grimer

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #105 on: April 07, 2009, 03:08:05 PM »
OK.

Either I don't understand what you're saying here, or your "wagon case" is simply wrong...
Cheers!
Correct. You don't understand what I am saying. You don't understand how much energy can be stored in spinning gyros (flywheels) and you don't understand the principles of servo-mechanics. I suggest you get yourself an education in these matters.  ;)

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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #106 on: April 07, 2009, 03:47:39 PM »
@Grimer,

Quote
At first I thought it must be an extension of the work of that New Zealander, Bruce de Palma.

What work of Bruce de Palma do you have in mind? I visited Bruce couple of times in Santa Barbara and he showed me some very interesting experiments, including the homopolar generator but no gravity driven machine. Maybe you mean his experiments w/ falling objects? Speaking of the Faraday generator, after visiting de Palma I spoke with prof. Kincheloe at Stanford university who showed me in his office data with telltale signs for Lentz’ law violation. Unfortunately, Bruce had been uncooperative and prof. Kincheloe wasn’t able to complete his independent studies of the motor. He told me he was trying to build one himself so that he can further study this violation (as you probably know a Colorado religious sect helped Bruce financially to build two of these one of which he kept). Unfortunately, after prof. Kincheloe retired in Oregon I could never get in touch with him despite my many attempts to do so.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #107 on: April 07, 2009, 03:49:05 PM »
@AquariuZ,

Quote
f you really want to get involved why not pay Sjack a visit instead of the professor.

I wrote him an e-mail to that effect but never got an answer. I sent a pm to @broli123 who posted the video on youtube. Never got an answer either. Also, as far as I understand from his website his investors are reluctant to have the details about the machine revealed. So, what good will it do to just meet with the guy and talk. This reminds me of a meeting I had at Oxford university at the center for quantum computing where I expected to see experiments but we ended up just discussing the theoretical background (very clever, by the way, if one believes that Hilbert space is indeed endowed with the physical meaning ascribed to it).

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #107 on: April 07, 2009, 03:49:05 PM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #108 on: April 07, 2009, 03:49:44 PM »
@Philip Hardcastle,

Quote
Phyics is physics, sometimes slightly wrong ...

Not slightly wrong. In the case of what prof. Bergshoeff is doing it is very, very wrong; completely wrong. Einstein’s theory of relativity and anything connected with it (string theories, cosmology etc.) should be abandoned in its entirety, without a trace.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #109 on: April 07, 2009, 03:55:54 PM »
@Philip Hardcastle,

I don't want to get into details now but it can be shown that there can be cases when energy produced need not come from a pre-existing energy reservoir. Colloquially speaking one may say that's "energy created from nothing". Of course, it isn't from nothing because the energy in question appears due to the opportunity created (through a proper construction of the machine) for conservative forces to induce displacement. Thus, while the "transformation" part of CoE can never be violated, there are instances whereby the "conservation" aspect of CoE can be violated.

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #109 on: April 07, 2009, 03:55:54 PM »
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Offline spinner

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #110 on: April 07, 2009, 04:08:18 PM »
Correct. You don't understand what I am saying.
Obviously..!

Quote
You don't understand how much energy can be stored in spinning gyros (flywheels) and you don't understand the principles of servo-mechanics....
Now this can is debatable... As far as I know, I can handle the (simple) equation for flywheel energy storage...
(I'm not so sure about you?)
Servo-mechanics? What about?  Physics/Mechanics, feedbacks/regulations? What exactly? Be specific.

Quote
I suggest you get yourself an education in these matters.  ;)

That's not nice, Frank... I'll hold my respond to this ... For now....
 >:(

So, are you going to answer what is going on with your "wagon case", or you'll just try to wiggling out?

I suggest you read your "waggon" case again, and then tell me where the energy comes from?
Then you'll probably demonstrate how a 10 ton wagon, full of spinning flywheels, can be pushed with a "one pound force". Is that your OverUnity?

(forget about the "gyro fairy" which spinned the gyros at the beginning...).

Offline mondrasek

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #111 on: April 07, 2009, 05:55:36 PM »
A while back I made a CAD drawing so I could visualize the acceleration vectors in a spinning wheel.  For this exercise I assumed a 12 ft. diameter wheel spinning at 26 RPM (go figure).  I drew a grid and summed the accelerations due to gravity and centrifugal force at each point on this grid.

It is interesting to me to look at the D shaped logo on http://mooieenergie.nl/ and mentally superimpose it over the acceleration vector map.  If the symbols near the middle of that D with the circle and arrow are representative of a weight and the direction of the "shot put" throw, it could show a weight being launched from around 9 o'clock, close to the axle, towards 1 o'clock, out by the rim.  And depending on the speed of the wheel, this path could send it through the null point, where gravity and centrifugal force are canceling and the mass is weightless.  Also, the path could be such that the acceleration vectors at the beginning and end of this trajectory are equal and opposite.

Thanks,

M.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #111 on: April 07, 2009, 05:55:36 PM »
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Offline Grimer

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #112 on: April 07, 2009, 05:56:17 PM »
...
That's not nice, Frank...
...
Fair enough. I was rude. I apologise. And I'm only too happy to explain - at length.

So you cover the inner side of the wagon walls with strain gauges. Remember this isn't meant to be a practical blueprint but an explanation of principle.

The strain gauges pick up the amount of pressure and the length of time that pressure is applied.
This information is transmitted to a controller which instructs the flywheels/gyros to power the wagon wheels by the appropriate amount. So the wagon accelerates. When the person takes his hand away the acceleration stops and the wagon carries on rolling forward at the speed it reached at the end of the push, the end of the acceleration. It would seem to the man pushing as though he had accelerated the wagon cos the machinery inside is so well made that there in no vibration and no sound.

If the man continues to push the wagon to higher and higher speeds the internal gyros will eventually become polarised and it would seem to the man the the inertia, the mass of the wagon was increasing. In fact it would merely be the efficiency of the servos which was decreasing.

Now this works for a wagon cos one can transmit forces through the wheels to the track.

But how about a body in outer space? That manifests the same inertia. Surely, it has nothing for its internal gyros to grip on. Mmmmmm......

Yes it has. It grips on the same thing that electromagnetic wave grips on. The very dense aether that is supposed not to exist. Sound waves require a atmosphere full of stuff. EM waves require an atmosphere much fuller of stuff - much, much, much fuller of stuff. The Victorians knew it. We refuse to think about it cos science has been usurped by mathematical physicists as Omnibus points out correctly, vigorously and at length. It's time engineers manned the barricades and took it back. And I predict that is shortly going to happen.

You see the trouble is, understanding the nature of mass, the nature of inertia is like taking a sip of the bar spittoon. Take one sip and you find you have to swallow the lot cos it's all in one piece.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for the "gyro fairies" that keep the fundamental bits of matter spinning, you tell me. The fact is they are spinning that is a given, They possess motion just like Brownian particles possess motion, presumably for the same kind of reason. As Leibniz said, motion can only come from motion - and if it doesn't move it doesn't exist - or something like that.  :)
« Last Edit: April 07, 2009, 06:17:26 PM by Grimer »

Offline AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #113 on: April 07, 2009, 09:29:04 PM »
A while back I made a CAD drawing so I could visualize the acceleration vectors in a spinning wheel.  For this exercise I assumed a 12 ft. diameter wheel spinning at 26 RPM (go figure).  I drew a grid and summed the accelerations due to gravity and centrifugal force at each point on this grid.

It is interesting to me to look at the D shaped logo on http://mooieenergie.nl/ and mentally superimpose it over the acceleration vector map.  If the symbols near the middle of that D with the circle and arrow are representative of a weight and the direction of the "shot put" throw, it could show a weight being launched from around 9 o'clock, close to the axle, towards 1 o'clock, out by the rim.  And depending on the speed of the wheel, this path could send it through the null point, where gravity and centrifugal force are canceling and the mass is weightless.  Also, the path could be such that the acceleration vectors at the beginning and end of this trajectory are equal and opposite.

mondrasek this is really nice, thanks...

I am almost at a point where I need to build a small model with dumbbells and all because I suck at maths. If you superimpose the "D" path you will find two things:

1) The optimal torque pull is in the "belly" of the D
2) At the six o clock position something spectacular needs to happen to bring the dumbells up to half past 12.

I say that spectacular thing is some kind of steel barrier which abruptly stops the dumbell bar, effectively launching the dumbbell violently upwards.

If it works as I think this is a violent wheel which makes lots of noise while it turns. The neighbours must love him...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #113 on: April 07, 2009, 09:29:04 PM »
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Offline mondrasek

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #114 on: April 07, 2009, 09:54:19 PM »

1) The optimal torque pull is in the "belly" of the D
2) At the six o clock position something spectacular needs to happen to bring the dumbells up to half past 12.


AquariuZ, just some food for thought:  You are right that the weights generate the most clockwise torque when at three o'clock.  But they are also generating the most force (F = ma) at six o'clock.  This is where you say something spectacular needs to happen.  Unfortunately that Force is also in the wrong direction (down).

Enjoy,

M.

Offline AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #115 on: April 07, 2009, 10:16:11 PM »
AquariuZ, just some food for thought:  You are right that the weights generate the most clockwise torque when at three o'clock.  But they are also generating the most force (F = ma) at six o'clock.  This is where you say something spectacular needs to happen.  Unfortunately that Force is also in the wrong direction (down).

Exactly, spectacular because the dumbbell needs to rise straight against the full force of gravity at six o clock.

One thing I am almost certain of now: the weights are not on the wheel between the six and twelve o clock position

The "D" acceleration path gives away more than Sjack would have liked if I am correct. It must be dumbbells the way he describes them and the way the wheel looks from the side. Looking at 0:08 of the video the stopper might very well be a wooden beam as well. I measure about two fists room between the two parts, so that would be around 33 cm or some 10 inches.

Looking at the floor under the wheel there indeed seems to be some sort of placeholder (for a beam?) there, but the quality of the video is simply too poor to be sure.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #115 on: April 07, 2009, 10:16:11 PM »
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Offline mondrasek

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #116 on: April 07, 2009, 10:43:47 PM »

One thing I am almost certain of now: the weights are not on the wheel between the six and twelve o clock position


Well, still *in* the wheel, just no longer at the end of the slots by the rim, right?  Those slots go towards the center of the wheel and would act like a cam, forcing the weights to rise and move inward towards the axle if the weights ran into an obstruction just past six o'clock (back side of the D).  The weights could be accelerated upwards by the slots until at the mid-line of the wheel, to nine o'clock, right beside the axle.  Lifting the weight to there would use up 1/2 the momentum the weight produced while falling down from 12 to six on the torque producing portion of the cycle.  Then from this position the spectacular event must take place.  I get that from the website FAQs where he says, "In the topleft of the system the weight is accelerated (like a shot put)."  I take topleft to mean from nine to 12 o'clock.

He also says that the extra force is generated in the lower left of the system.  If this is between six and nine o'clock I think it must come from changing the path of the rotating weight so they begin their upward climb.  This changing of path must allow for the release of some of the kinetic energy to be used to launch a weight already at the nine o'clock position spectacularly (violently) upwards, and slightly to the right, or clockwise, like the arrow in his logo again?

M.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2009, 12:19:32 AM by mondrasek »

Offline AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #117 on: April 07, 2009, 10:48:58 PM »
I think the weights at six move straight up and pass over the axle and lock right into a position between twelve and one o clock. I am trying to draw that right now just to see if that is at all possible...

Offline khabe

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #118 on: April 07, 2009, 11:34:03 PM »
Hereby the only really working gravity machine I have seen,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVqKluBjcag&feature=related
Selfrunning one :o
Very Over Unity 8)
cheers,
khabe

Offline AquariuZ

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #119 on: April 07, 2009, 11:49:32 PM »
Hereby the only really working gravity machine I have seen,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVqKluBjcag&feature=related
Selfrunning one :o
Very Over Unity 8)
cheers,
khabe

You know, that was very entertaining, even though it is well off topic. The way he gets up and walks away is classic in every sense of the word.

 8)

Now back to the drawing board...

 

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