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Author Topic: Prof Fu's violates 2nd Law - photos & video proof  (Read 15493 times)

Offline Philip Hardcastle

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Prof Fu's violates 2nd Law - photos & video proof
« on: April 01, 2009, 03:45:54 AM »
Professor Xing Yong Fu of Shanghai University presented a paper some years ago suggesting that the use of magnets could bias thermionic emissions in one direction and thus cause a current flow.

To prove this he made a Valve (FX1-1) with 2 identical side by side electrodes coated with Ag-O-Cs which emits a significant amount of electrons thermionically at room temperature (about 15uA per cm2). When a magnetic field was introduced he argued electrons could curl from A to B but not from B to A. The paper was essentially ignored though it appears nobody found a cogent argument against the theory. So simple was the idea that when it was brought to my intention I thought it must be a joke otherwise it would be World news.

I have come to communicate with Professor Fu and he provided me with a DVD with a 280Meg video of his experiment, and some photos of key points.

I have looked at that video many many times and I know it says the 2nd Law is smashed. I know Dr Fu is 100% genuine. He deserves the recognition having put in decades of work towards free energy.

How do we make the World look at and admit he has produced free energy (even though it is miniscule)

Philip Hardcastle

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline ramset

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Re: Prof Fu's violates 2nd Law - photos & video proof
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2009, 03:55:48 AM »
Philip Hardcastle

Smashing in this case is a good thing

Can you share the info/video's?

Chet

Offline Philip Hardcastle

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Re: Prof Fu's violates 2nd Law - photos & video proof
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2009, 03:59:59 AM »
Here is a photo of his Valve FX1-1

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Prof Fu's violates 2nd Law - photos & video proof
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2009, 03:59:59 AM »
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Offline Philip Hardcastle

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Re: Prof Fu's violates 2nd Law - photos & video proof
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2009, 04:09:29 AM »
Here are some pictures

1 with no magnetic field 0.4E-13V
2 with magnet pointing South + 8.0E-13V
3 with magnet pointing North. - 8.7E-13
4 Professor Fu

Note on the video this is clear to see but on photos the meter is hard to read.

On Video the magnet is reversed many times.

If anyone can tell me how to reduce 280Meg video to size permitted to this site it would be good.

Offline Philip Hardcastle

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Re: Prof Fu's violates 2nd Law - photos & video proof
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2009, 04:13:47 AM »
Correction to last post

No mag 0.0
Mag South = + 8.7E-14v
Mag North  = - 7.4E-14v

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Prof Fu's violates 2nd Law - photos & video proof
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2009, 04:13:47 AM »
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Offline lostcauses10x

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Re: Prof Fu's violates 2nd Law - photos & video proof
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2009, 04:24:38 AM »
Hoping some one can help you with the video. This should be interesting.

Offline retroworm

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Re: Prof Fu's violates 2nd Law - photos & video proof
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2009, 01:02:24 PM »
Hey Phil,

I read Fu's paper while I was researching your thermionic motor (still working on it btw). It's interesting for sure, gives me the mental image of maxwell's demon telling electrons to jump a fence :P.

I doubt you can ever fit 250mb video to 250kb (attachment limit), but you can use video stream sites (youtube, vimeo, metacafe, liveleak, megavideo etc.) or file hosts like megaupload and rapidshare. Most sites should downsize it automatically, but you can also easily do that with windows movie maker, which should be fairly self explanatory.

If it's in dvd format (that plays on dvd players), it's gonna be bit trickier. You can put the VOB file on the disk to megaupload and it will play on some media players (like VLC), but stream sites and most editing software won't accept them.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Prof Fu's violates 2nd Law - photos & video proof
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2009, 01:02:24 PM »
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Offline tinu

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Re: Prof Fu's violates 2nd Law - photos & video proof
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2009, 03:34:16 PM »
Hi all,

The whole issue was discussed much earlier into this forum but at that time I didn’t bother to reply in the hope that another member will show up with the right explanation. I'm not sure if that happened or not, so here it is:

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=28623
quote user xyfu (presumably professor Fu):
“When I am going to do the experiment, I can borrow some magnets from one of my friends. After the experiment, I return the magnets to him and the magnets can be not changed at all. So, the magnets are free.”

Magnets are free, indeed. However, bringing them near the tube is not free. It takes work to do that. Lol! Neither removing them is free.
Someone said nobody has ever found a flaw?! Think again...

Need a second thought?
Well, why is professor Fu scratching his ear going around his head?! One Ag-O-Cs electrode “A” placed inside of a metallic sphere “B” will also give a thermionic current (and voltage, thus power) for a while... But not for long: equilibrium is to be reach. The two experiments are not identical, of course, but the point is in the tubes of prof. Fu the equilibrium will be definitely achieved too. It may take a very long time as the macroscopic imparted energy when establishing the magnetic field might be huge as compared to the output power (0.8VxE-13A)...
So, is it available a single current-time graph in long run? Nope...
Instead, let’s quickly jump to the conclusion: “In the above experiment, the heat extracted by the electronic tubes from the air converts completely into electric energy without producing any other effects. The experiment shows clearly that the second law of thermodynamics is not universally valid and there are ways by witch energy can convert from waste one to useful one again!” Yeah, right…

So, the paper/subject is not new at all to some members.
I attach the link for easy reference http://arxiv.org/ftp/physics/papers/0311/0311104.pdf
But paper is flawed.
Sorry for the bad news.

Cheers,
Tinu

Offline retroworm

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Re: Prof Fu's violates 2nd Law - photos & video proof
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2009, 08:45:41 PM »
Bad news are often good, wouldn't like my understanding to be based on false assumptions.
But, I'm not sure I understand you fully. Are you arguing that introducing the field temporarily increases the thermionic emission? If that's not the case then I'd like you to be more specific. The magnet's supposed function is just to passively redirect the electrons that are already flying. I would also like to see far more extensive and long term study to be done, though. I can give you that much.

One Ag-O-Cs electrode “A” placed inside of a metallic sphere “B” will also give a thermionic current (and voltage, thus power) for a while... But not for long: equilibrium is to be reach.
This paper actually argues against that. (and no magnets used in this case)
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0902/0902.3590v1.pdf
Initially the plates have equal temperature and charge. Thermionic current then creates a charge difference, which can be shorted out to produce measurable current. Once shorted it returns to initial state, and the process can be repeated. At which point does it reach equilibrium and no longer function?

In both cases I think the premise is that the emission (and therefore charge buildup) continuously happens even in the most neutral state of the system, which would also mean that any state "above" the neutral could be reverted by shorting/grounding.

Whether or not that has been conclusively demonstrated to be true is another issue. I think it's still worth investigating.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Prof Fu's violates 2nd Law - photos & video proof
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2009, 08:45:41 PM »
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Offline Philip Hardcastle

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Re: Prof Fu's violates 2nd Law - photos & video proof
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2009, 06:12:37 AM »
Hi,

I read at least some of the exchanges with Fu from this forum and may I say if there ever was a case of attacking the person not the idea it came forward then, not saying who but someone (and it might not have been here) started out saying Fu was a biologist or something. Then the word fraud or con was used.

I wondered about Fu and for a while it looked like perhaps he did not fit the bill. However by believing him to be genuine meant I persevered and found that he was in fact a very respected Professor of Physics at the Joint university of Virginia and Shanghai university (Shanghai Jiao Tong University).

Moreover he is 74 years old and has been doing the research for over 50 years.

He presented his paper in the USA after an invitation, extract from letter

"Dear Dr. Fu,
On behalf of the entire organizing committee for PQE 2007, I would like to invite
you both to present the results of your research at the 37th annual Winter Colloquium
on the Physics of Quantum Electronics. In particular, your research on “Realization
of Maxwell’s Hypothesis” would be very interesting to our audience.
A measure of the success of this conference is the attendence by many internationally
recoginzed scientists such as yourselves. We sincerely hope you will be able
to attend and strengthen the conference in so doing.

The 37th Winter Colloquium on the Physics of Quantum Electronics will be held
January 2–6, 2007 at Snowbird, Utah. There will be a reception on Tuesday, January
2 in honor of the 2007 recipients of the Willis E. Lamb medal. The conference sessions
will be Wednesday, January 3 through Saturday, January 6."

So then I felt, like tinu said, that perhaps his experiment was unreliable.

However I sent Fu my curled ballisitic thermionics idea (as well as 50 other professors) and he replied with a detailed response full of diagrams etc (in short saying my idea was correct). This led to a few pleasant exchanges and then I received in the post a DVD.

Now if you start with a fair mind on this subject, you wathc the video, you read the papers and you do not allow the 2ndlot to be considered absolute, then you get very interested.

You ask yourself about if there is a mechanism to get an erroneous result etc.

Then you get to a point and say, there is so much here that looks good, why has not the west replicated the experiment.

You find no answer except you hear comments about Fu being a fraud or Fu being a second rate chinese scientist. It is horrible to think that people would attack rather than debate.

When he came on someone threw at him an argument about magnets and Fu answered poorly, not wrongly, but poorly. The guy does not know how the people in this rough and tumble forum work. He is a gentle elderley, respected Professor of Physics who is much loved by all his students (I even got letters and appraisals from his student and peers).

I say that despite my best efforts I cannot find a good argument to deny his experiment is some sort of proof. If a better proof is needed by using better meters etc then we should ask universities in the USA to help.

If he is right and it shows that 2ndlot is not absolute then this forum and many others becomes the shrine for possibility instead of a shooting gallery for resolute sceptics.

Yes scepticism is ok provided it is not a barrier to thought.

This is my view.

Philip H

Offline Philip Hardcastle

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Re: Prof Fu's violates 2nd Law - photos & video proof
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2009, 06:21:57 AM »
Fu at conference.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Prof Fu's violates 2nd Law - photos & video proof
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2009, 06:21:57 AM »
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Offline tinu

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Re: Prof Fu's violates 2nd Law - photos & video proof
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2009, 02:23:22 AM »
Bad news are often good, wouldn't like my understanding to be based on false assumptions.
But, I'm not sure I understand you fully. Are you arguing that introducing the field temporarily increases the thermionic emission? If that's not the case then I'd like you to be more specific. The magnet's supposed function is just to passively redirect the electrons that are already flying. I would also like to see far more extensive and long term study to be done, though. I can give you that much.
This paper actually argues against that. (and no magnets used in this case)
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0902/0902.3590v1.pdf
Initially the plates have equal temperature and charge. Thermionic current then creates a charge difference, which can be shorted out to produce measurable current. Once shorted it returns to initial state, and the process can be repeated. At which point does it reach equilibrium and no longer function?

In both cases I think the premise is that the emission (and therefore charge buildup) continuously happens even in the most neutral state of the system, which would also mean that any state "above" the neutral could be reverted by shorting/grounding.

Whether or not that has been conclusively demonstrated to be true is another issue. I think it's still worth investigating.

Hi retroworm,

Sorry for my late reply. Since the ‘magnetic noise’ increased dramatically here by a certain and absolutely improbable chain of simultaneous “coincidences” (like the return of a certain smot “guru”, the launch of a new OU magnetic motor, the rejuvenation of old ideas that sell good to lesser brained etc etc) I simply made my mind: it’s nothing here but manipulation and to me it’s a huge waste of time. I won’t come often but just to see if any messages from acquaintances and friends.

I’d say you already have the answers by now. But if not, the key element for a quick understanding is Faraday induction; imagine a coil made not of the common copper but of pure plasma and you shall get my point. Alternative, although it is well known that static magnetic fields do not impart energy on moving charges and variable magnetic fields do, imagine that one may take an old TV with cathodic tube and check that when bringing a magnet toward it when TV is on will require (slightly but yet undoubtedly) more energy than when bringing the same magnet when the TV is off; that’s due to the counter-reaction felt by the magnet to the Faraday currents induced within the volume of the electron gas inside the TV tube when on.

So far, I hope it is clear that any variable outside magnetic field imparts energy to the electron gas inside the tube of Prof FU. At a first look, one may be tempted to consider that such energy is turned into heat (thus leading to a raise of the temperature of the electron gas) but that is not necessarily true in all cases. Pretty much like a magnet that can be used to build an electromagnetic brake (indeed work is turned into heat) but it also can be used to build a generator (less heat or even close to zero).

If you have followed me, it shall be clear that every time the magnetic field is varied (increased or decreased it doesn’t matter, of course) a certain amount of energy goes inside of the tube, namely into the electron gas that exists around the two electrodes. (So being, this bracket is just to emphasize that my explanation has absolutely nothing to do with any alteration of the work-function due to an outside magnetic field). Prof Fu should have been concerned about such effect of introducing energy into the tube as it is basics and he should have experimentally and theoretically investigated it and at least attempted to dismiss it but he haven’t did it at all. Moreover, his device is indeed genuine and it is hard to think of it and relying on common sense hence the confusion upon many readers. But I think I have it’s classical equivalence that hopefully will clear the picture for anyone interested: build a coil made of copper wire as usual but instead of just winding the turns, wind one turn and add a diode (in series), wind another turn and add another diode also in series and so on. When done, add a capacitor in series too and also a multi megaohm resistor, also in series. Take the so-built device and subject it to variable magnetic fields; I haven’t done the experiment myself but I bet it will behave surprisingly similar with prof Fu’s one, except it will reproduce only one half of his graphs. (For reproducing the two halves, two such devices shall be connected in parallel, paying attention to the polarity of the diodes).

My final thoughts as per the above?
The tube is just an electrical DC generator powered by the outside variable magnetic fields (ultimately by the hand of the experimenter) and having a peculiar characteristic due to the huge internal resistance as well as some internal capacitances involved and of course due to it’s so feeble output power. Let the outside magnetic field be constant and the power will fade to zero. No violation of the second law, no cooling, no nothing of this kind but just a misinterpretation of the experimental facts.

Waiting for the good news,  ;)

Best regards,
Tinu

Offline Philip Hardcastle

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Re: Prof Fu's violates 2nd Law - photos & video proof
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2009, 04:54:48 AM »
@Tinu,

Can you look at my Curled Ballsitic Thermionic device on this forum and post here your analysis of that since you are so wise and all knowing.

The argument you put forward is sheer rubbish and yet it is so confident and arrogant.

Your theory, untested and unproved, serves to blow out of the water the work of a Professor who has spent a lifetime on such. He is as we speak building newer and better versions of his valve.

Your argument of storing energy in a plasma torus is silly for the electrons would be circulating like an unconstrained gas in a vessel having friction and turbulence. Therefore it would, unlike proper superconducting flows, within milliseconds expend the paltry enrgy input of a 35 Gauss field.

Now I admit you could be right, not about your pet put down theory, but that Fu's experiment needs more investigation and refinement but it also deserves more than a quick put down by you.

He has graphed the magnetic field to output relationship which is totally consistent with the theory of operation. If the magnetic field is too weak then insufficient curl occurs to get electrons from A to B and if the mag field is too strong then the curl is to much and again the electrons cannot jump the insulated gap.

I have seen the video and considered the possible ideas such as you have raised, but I am convinced the truth is heavily in favour of a device operating in keeping with the theory.

Instead of just attacking the experiment why not first attack the theory, if you can show me a coherent argument as to why it should not work then your pet theory would deserve a second look.

I am a touch annoyed that you treat him so. In the past I found you to be fairer than that.

If you do not believe in the possibility of overunity or 2ndlot violation then a debate is pointless. If however you are waiting for the good news I ask that you spend as much time trying to see a candidates merits as you do seeking to shoot it down by untested assumptions of your own.

BTW I await with genuine interest your view on Curled Ballistics.

Regards Phil

Phil

Offline ramset

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Re: Prof Fu's violates 2nd Law - photos & video proof
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2009, 05:15:55 AM »
Mr Hardcastle

Thank you !!

A mans life work should not be shrugged off so lightly

Chet

Offline hoptoad

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Re: Prof Fu's violates 2nd Law - photos & video proof
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2009, 08:16:35 AM »
This is my view.
Philip H

A view expressed very eloquently and thoughtfully.
I agree with the general sentiments of your post.

Cheers

 

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