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Author Topic: Steven Marks Tube Power Supply  (Read 26474 times)

Offline pauldude000

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Re: Steven Marks Tube Power Supply
« Reply #45 on: May 03, 2009, 07:08:17 AM »
I've been waiting a long time to see that question posed about that SM comment.

Your answer sounds like it may be partially correct. Cleanup of the signal? Probably. I think that statement was more to make us look at the fact that the emissions of the heater are added to the anode and what happens when that goes on.
Voltage of the heater added to the plate.....
Increased velocity ('voltage' if you like) of the circuit current....

I understand in theory.

It is the principle Tesla used to talk about, namely that with a primary DC current, an AC component can be superimposed and travel seemingly unconnected to the DC current, so long as each signal has isolated grounds. Technically, this should work in either direction. A current seeks equilibrium with its own source, if allowed.

A person should be able to achieve interesting results this way, so long as the signals can indeed remain separated.

Paul Andrulis

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Re: Steven Marks Tube Power Supply
« Reply #45 on: May 03, 2009, 07:08:17 AM »

Offline pauldude000

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Re: Steven Marks Tube Power Supply
« Reply #46 on: May 03, 2009, 07:20:10 AM »
@BEP

I have a question for you. First, I do not know enough about tubes. I wish to make that clear, as I do not know if this would even work.

What would happen if you made a high voltage but current limited weak AC signal, such as 120v 60hz @.1A or ~12W, then use a tube to couple it to a high current low voltage source, such as 5V @ 6A or ~30W using a common ground???

Would not the relatively weak power higher voltage signal oscillate the much lower voltage? Could it be that simple? Would it even work? Any ideas?

Paul Andrulis

Offline pauldude000

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Re: Steven Marks Tube Power Supply
« Reply #47 on: May 03, 2009, 07:36:40 AM »
@all

I asked BEP as I trust his knowledge. However, I give to all my reasoning behind the question.

It has long been known that a weak signal can control a strong signal. But what prompted this idea is actually how the earths magnetosphere reacts to impacts of extremely high speed particles from the sun. They come in, impact the magnetosphere, and actually cause minute resonations to what we would consider a massively strong field.

I wonder if the field of a strong current can be resonated by a weak signal in a similar concept.

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Re: Steven Marks Tube Power Supply
« Reply #47 on: May 03, 2009, 07:36:40 AM »
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Offline Mannix

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Re: Steven Marks Tube Power Supply
« Reply #48 on: May 03, 2009, 07:53:56 AM »
@all

I asked BEP as I trust his knowledge. However, I give to all my reasoning behind the question.

It has long been known that a weak signal can control a strong signal. But what prompted this idea is actually how the earths magnetosphere reacts to impacts of extremely high speed particles from the sun. They come in, impact the magnetosphere, and actually cause minute resonations to what we would consider a massively strong field.

I wonder if the field of a strong current can be resonated by a weak signal in a similar concept.

That fits pretty well Paul but to put it into any kind of context,
 requires multiple experiments which as I understand, very few are doing

so try panning for gold there!

Offline BEP

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Re: Steven Marks Tube Power Supply
« Reply #49 on: May 03, 2009, 02:42:40 PM »
@BEP

I have a question for you. First, I do not know enough about tubes. I wish to make that clear, as I do not know if this would even work.

What would happen if you made a high voltage but current limited weak AC signal, such as 120v 60hz @.1A or ~12W, then use a tube to couple it to a high current low voltage source, such as 5V @ 6A or ~30W using a common ground???

Would not the relatively weak power higher voltage signal oscillate the much lower voltage? Could it be that simple? Would it even work? Any ideas?

Paul Andrulis

It would take much less power than 12 Watts. What you describe is basic amplifier theory.  One exception... a tube would require a higher plate voltage than 5 but you could vary this high current/low voltage by a specified amount or modulate it. Then it is just a matter of how you want to collect that variation - or tap the potential.

Usually done with a coupling RC, LC or transformer.

My interest in tubes with a TPU is fired by that tube type circuit that only uses power for the heater ( http://www.b-kainka.de/bastel87.htm ) . Tie that in as a magnetostrictive oscillator and we may have something. Since these oscillators resonate at the resonate frequency of the core material and not the windings.... well, it could be interesting.

The benefits of such a circuit:

1. SS could not do the same
2. resonate frequency based upon the circumference of the core
3. would require magnets
4. would likely require passing a magnet to kick start it.
5. the only external source of power required would be enough to heat the heater.

A simple experiment is to just apply voltage to a tube heater. With nothing else connected. measure voltage between the heater and plate. The 5U4GB is a good one for this. It has no separate cathode between the heater and plate.

BTW: there are many folks here with more knowledge on tubes than me. I've used them in circuits for years and understand them better than SS but that isn't saying much.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2009, 03:59:27 PM by BEP »

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Re: Steven Marks Tube Power Supply
« Reply #49 on: May 03, 2009, 02:42:40 PM »
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Offline Phantasm

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Re: Steven Marks Tube Power Supply
« Reply #50 on: May 03, 2009, 08:01:08 PM »
It would take much less power than 12 Watts. What you describe is basic amplifier theory.  One exception... a tube would require a higher plate voltage than 5 but you could vary this high current/low voltage by a specified amount or modulate it. Then it is just a matter of how you want to collect that variation - or tap the potential.

Usually done with a coupling RC, LC or transformer.

My interest in tubes with a TPU is fired by that tube type circuit that only uses power for the heater ( http://www.b-kainka.de/bastel87.htm ) . Tie that in as a magnetostrictive oscillator and we may have something. Since these oscillators resonate at the resonate frequency of the core material and not the windings.... well, it could be interesting.

The benefits of such a circuit:

1. SS could not do the same
2. resonate frequency based upon the circumference of the core
3. would require magnets
4. would likely require passing a magnet to kick start it.
5. the only external source of power required would be enough to heat the heater.

A simple experiment is to just apply voltage to a tube heater. With nothing else connected. measure voltage between the heater and plate. The 5U4GB is a good one for this. It has no separate cathode between the heater and plate.

BTW: there are many folks here with more knowledge on tubes than me. I've used them in circuits for years and understand them better than SS but that isn't saying much.

 :o

Thank you! Youve removed a stumbling block for me.

Magnetostriction oscillation is a great candidate. It appears as though this technique will yield stable oscillations.

I am curious how you have come to the conclusion that this would require magnet/passing a magnet to kickstart it

Thanks again!!

Offline Mannix

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Re: Steven Marks Tube Power Supply
« Reply #51 on: May 04, 2009, 12:54:05 AM »
Nice one BEP!

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Re: Steven Marks Tube Power Supply
« Reply #51 on: May 04, 2009, 12:54:05 AM »
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Offline BEP

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Re: Steven Marks Tube Power Supply
« Reply #52 on: May 04, 2009, 01:38:18 AM »
It appears as though this technique will yield stable oscillations.

So stable you will be surprised but expect it to vary with a rhythm if your build works like mine.

Quote
I am curious how you have come to the conclusion that this would require magnet/passing a magnet to kickstart it

On a toroid you will need at least two separate magnetic fields. I suggest on opposite sides of the circle. The mag fields are required for the 'striction' part. Two, so you can have two equal twists of opposite directions (picture a sine-wave - reverse the polarity of one side). More are possible, I suppose.

Depending upon how you cause twisting of the core (magneto-striction), current through the MS metal, vary the magnet fields... Whatever.... you may need an external magnet to temporarily deform one of the fixed fields to cause a change in twist of the MS material. -or- if your mag fields are fixed.. you may chose to change the current going through the MS material.
I think it depends on which TPU you are trying to build.

Be aware my attempt is good at making strange noises and nothing more.

The zero voltage oscillator (regenerative receiver gone super-regen) is interesting but using a dual rectifier - 1 side as radio detector - and the other side (with strange internal coupling to the detector) as an amplifier is more outside the norm than running a tube triode without plate power applied.


 

Offline BEP

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Re: Steven Marks Tube Power Supply
« Reply #53 on: May 05, 2009, 04:05:07 AM »
I must have done it again....

Did I scare everyone off?

I know I've mentioned the zero volt tube circuits at least once about two years ago. I tried to introduce an MS oscillator a few times. The first long before @EMDevices found those great patents.
@Pese said it was a dead short circuit  :D

I'll admit I don't recall posting anything about using dual rectifier tubes as amplifiers. That is an old HAM trick. You just insert a resistance between the filament and common. The normal detected signal modulates the common cathode and varies plate current of the second diode, pretty much what SM was saying in his rectifier story. The results aren't much different from using the grid in a triode. DC is required on the heater. You must tie the heater battery plus or minus to common. One will allow amplification. Tieing the wrong battery terminal will kill the effect.
That alone is the mystery if you don't understand a tube can amplify without plate current.



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Re: Steven Marks Tube Power Supply
« Reply #53 on: May 05, 2009, 04:05:07 AM »
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Offline Phantasm

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Re: Steven Marks Tube Power Supply
« Reply #54 on: May 08, 2009, 09:21:05 AM »
I must have done it again....

Did I scare everyone off?

No, youre fine - honestly I'm in the same boat that Loner is in... I'm feeling overwhelmed by conflicting perspectives on TPU operation.

My background is not in the EE field. For me, it means even the slightest detail in one of these posts, while plain to the average reader here requires me to read pages and pages online to get the jist of whats being discussed. And thats just the little details.

Ive followed this system, researching everything that is unknown to me, while digesting all of SM's clues and notes. I've forumulated my own understanding of SM's clues to the point where they all seem to make sense in light of my perspective.

Still though I default to the expertice of the users on these forums. In that regard, I've been trying to understand and learn more about the perspectives that have been brought forward under the assumption that my plain interpretations of SM's clues has been a tried and tested failure. I havnt read that this is the case but I assume so since a lot of things go unsaid on these forums :\

On the upside, I'm learning a lot - on the down side, I feel confused and burned out with all the perspectives. I'm dedicated to this project though... I've made it a personal goal to realize this technology. Either way, I learn a lot so I cant really go wrong. At the moment though, I need a break from all this research. In my mind there's no point in trying to learn new perspectives about how a TPU might work if I still havnt tested the old ideas.. So I'm making it a priority to get some testing going.

Frankly, I'd really like to sit down and TALK with someone back and forth about this stuff... If anyone wants to talk TPU building - send me a message, I'm more than happy to share my ideas.

« Last Edit: May 08, 2009, 09:41:25 AM by Phantasm »

Offline otto

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Re: Steven Marks Tube Power Supply
« Reply #55 on: May 08, 2009, 11:03:55 AM »
Hello all,

@Phantasm

the BEST informations gave us Mannix when he posted SMs words.

AMEN!!

Otto




Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Steven Marks Tube Power Supply
« Reply #55 on: May 08, 2009, 11:03:55 AM »
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Offline Mannix

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Re: Steven Marks Tube Power Supply
« Reply #56 on: May 08, 2009, 11:22:27 AM »
I must have done it again....

Did I scare everyone off?

I know I've mentioned the zero volt tube circuits at least once about two years ago. I tried to introduce an MS oscillator a few times. The first long before @EMDevices found those great patents.
@Pese said it was a dead short circuit  :D

I'll admit I don't recall posting anything about using dual rectifier tubes as amplifiers. That is an old HAM trick. You just insert a resistance between the filament and common. The normal detected signal modulates the common cathode and varies plate current of the second diode, pretty much what SM was saying in his rectifier story. The results aren't much different from using the grid in a triode. DC is required on the heater. You must tie the heater battery plus or minus to common. One will allow amplification. Tieing the wrong battery terminal will kill the effect.
That alone is the mystery if you don't understand a tube can amplify without plate current.

I see your references as some of the best so far!

There is a reluctance for people to use tubes in their experiments even though we been told specifically, several times to use them.

The context in which you put them is excellent....and dont forget that xrays are produced by them...where do x rays come from? and is there anything else?


The great masters were here as well...yet most are too "tech savvy" to use them.

Of course it is possible to get results with ss.......but only when you have the effect with the tubes.......10 years later, a ss device like in the videos...I repeat 10 years after having an operational device.

So, as smart as some of us may be, and as dedicated to sort this out ..it is perhaps our "education" that prevents us from rediscovery.

Early days ..keep it coming BEP!





Offline Phantasm

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Re: Steven Marks Tube Power Supply
« Reply #57 on: May 08, 2009, 03:28:01 PM »
Hello all,

@Phantasm

the BEST informations gave us Mannix when he posted SMs words.

AMEN!!

Otto

Thanks otto

You are an inspiration - Keep up your good work!

Offline Phantasm

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Re: Steven Marks Tube Power Supply
« Reply #58 on: May 08, 2009, 03:43:27 PM »
No, youre fine - honestly I'm in the same boat that Loner is in... I'm feeling overwhelmed by conflicting perspectives on TPU operation.

@BEP

Sorry, I should clarify - - I, as well believe, that your input is highly valued. I didnt mean to discount any of what you just said or imply that it was a conflicting perspective. In fact, it looks like youre right on the mark with your explanation of SM's rectifier story...


Offline Thaelin

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Re: Steven Marks Tube Power Supply
« Reply #59 on: May 08, 2009, 07:30:21 PM »
   There seems to be many perspectives. I also have one. I can account for most of the statements made by Steven. Just wind a lamp cord coil and then figure out how much cap to add to it to make resonant at say 5500cps. Easy to obtain with the coil form given.
Standard cap values and then trim the coil to fit. Sound familiar?

thaelin

 

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