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Author Topic: One magnet no bearing Bedini motor  (Read 152208 times)

Offline xenomorphlabs

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Re: One magnet no bearing Bedini motor
« Reply #45 on: April 23, 2009, 04:54:49 AM »
Bill: Nice that you get the rotation going. Its a good start.

In my opinion the rotation is much too slow. It will actually stabilizeand stay in the center with a faster rotation, that i usually get with the 10k pot all the way down. But you are saying that you have used a low resistance.
Hmm, have your tried a higher battery voltage? What are you running at? if you are not doing so already, i think at 12 V it should run much faster i am sure.
What is your core material?


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Re: One magnet no bearing Bedini motor
« Reply #45 on: April 23, 2009, 04:54:49 AM »

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: One magnet no bearing Bedini motor
« Reply #46 on: April 23, 2009, 05:08:53 AM »
@ xenomorphlabs:

My core material is a group of iron nails cut to fit inside and I made a mold out of another empty core and poured epoxy inside.  (I used vaseline for a mold release) Once it cured, I can now slide this core into any other coil as needed and it can be easily adjusted . In this set-up, the core is recessed about .250" from the top surface. I am using 9 volts to power it.  I was thinking of borrowing one of my large 12 volt bats from my other Bedini project just to see if it would crank it up straighter.  I was getting very high speed when just using a flat surface but it wandered around too much and now it sits on a coffee can lid that is glued to the bottom of a wine glass to give it a slight conical (concave) shape. (The white foam plate around the edge is just for saving the magnet when it falls off, it does not touch the spinning area at all)  I may be better off just going back to the flat surface.  It actually stood up a lot straighter and made a high pitch as it was really turning.  I will play with it and see.  Thanks for your help.

Bill

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: One magnet no bearing Bedini motor
« Reply #47 on: April 23, 2009, 06:27:07 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgO3503GIxc

Above is my 2nd attempt.  I switched to a flat platform again and, since my 9 volts need recharging, I used a 12 volt battery.  This time it was spinning very fast and I had it tuned so it would be as slow as possible but it was still flying.  I still had the "X" wobble even when I cranked it up.  This is much better and I will get the right components (pots) and work on it some more.  Thanks.  (This magnet spinning was very loud and you can barely hear me in the video)

Bill

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Re: One magnet no bearing Bedini motor
« Reply #47 on: April 23, 2009, 06:27:07 AM »
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Offline xenomorphlabs

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Re: One magnet no bearing Bedini motor
« Reply #48 on: April 23, 2009, 01:47:19 PM »
Bill: It is impossible to see from this video, but you can check if the edge of your magnet is round or if maybe part of it is broken off. Jonnydavro and myself had a pair of magnets where one of them had the side slightly unrounded and that results in the tumbling "X" movement.
I explain that in my first vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s18_kZBIOp0

Maybe try another one of these "snake eggs".

The rotation speed is good now, you can go from there nicely !

Regards,
Xenomorph



Offline jonnydavro

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Re: One magnet no bearing Bedini motor
« Reply #49 on: April 23, 2009, 08:04:34 PM »
Hi.Today i tried adding a slave coil to see what would happen if i pulsed the magnet from both ends.The results were the rpm's seem to be higher and the pitch/sound off the motor increased but this would need checking with a tachometer.Here is a pic and a vid.Regards jonnydavro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jx-atFOp2Ds

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Re: One magnet no bearing Bedini motor
« Reply #49 on: April 23, 2009, 08:04:34 PM »
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Offline Pirate88179

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Re: One magnet no bearing Bedini motor
« Reply #50 on: April 23, 2009, 08:32:05 PM »
Bill: It is impossible to see from this video, but you can check if the edge of your magnet is round or if maybe part of it is broken off. Jonnydavro and myself had a pair of magnets where one of them had the side slightly unrounded and that results in the tumbling "X" movement.
I explain that in my first vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s18_kZBIOp0

Maybe try another one of these "snake eggs".

The rotation speed is good now, you can go from there nicely !

Regards,
Xenomorph


Thank you.  Jonny mentioned this to me in a youtube message.  I am going to look for some locally today.  My ends are very blunt and, upon very close examination, are not entirely symmetrical.  No chips or damage.....yet but with these speeds it is only a matter of time, ha ha.  I think I fixed most of my problem by removing the concave surface that, due to the wineglass bottom form, put the surface about a half inch above the top of my coil.  Now with this plate, it is only about .050" above it.  That, and the 12 volts, gave me my speed back.  Thanks for the tips and the help.

Really stupid question here:  Has anyone attempted (you might have to be stupid to try this) to get 2 of these running on the same surface at the same time?  You would think they would just cling together but....their poles are moving so fast...they might not.  of course, this might cause a catastrophic accident but....I may have to try this later.

@ Jonny:

Great idea for the top slave coil man.  I am assuming this operates from the same transistor and circuit as the original coil? (Otherwise, I don't see how it could be synchronized.)  You keep coming up with these ideas...I can't keep up with you.  keep it up.

Bill



Offline xenomorphlabs

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Re: One magnet no bearing Bedini motor
« Reply #51 on: April 23, 2009, 09:01:08 PM »
@Bill: I had the same insane idea. I guess someone needs to build a 2nd unit and speed the magnet up with 2nd unit and then carefully drop it onto the other dancefloor and then observe if its love at first sight  ;D

I envisioned a catastrophic result too. It can be either boosting the experiment enormously or make them sing like never heard before :D

It seems like all a matter of phase, if two opposing pole sides get close then they will attract, in other case they will push each other away. But there is the circular movement still, so this might push them into a faster rotation or whirl them away from each other.

I am sure some nut will try this one day  ;)

Edit: I am just thinking that Jonny could try this with his slave coil to speed a 2nd magnet up and then somehow drop it to the first magnets lid ? But please make a video of it! :D

EDIT2: I had to do it. I made a little test. When one magnet is rotating the attraction seems to be not that strong. However they were in a 90 degress axial offset.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6BIsW_5G60

EDIT3: This is a possible way to separate the magnets from sticking together . All in case there is a potential advantage in using 2 magnets at all. I feel it could just double the amp-draw if it works at all.
But who knows hehe
 Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW8Op6qVAOo
« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 10:38:29 PM by xenomorphlabs »

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Re: One magnet no bearing Bedini motor
« Reply #51 on: April 23, 2009, 09:01:08 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: One magnet no bearing Bedini motor
« Reply #52 on: April 24, 2009, 12:01:03 AM »
Little update:

I use bigger puffer capacitors now to dump into the battery.
Also a different lid that allows a more stable rotation of the magnet.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFqayiEQpGs

I am wondering if it is wiser to just use one big cap and connect the 4 bridge rectifiers to it ?

Gyula, what would you think is a parallel or serial connection of the rectifiers charging the cap more efficiently?



Hi,

I think you will have less forward voltage drop (hence less loss in the output) if you use the bridges in parallel.
( In case of the series connection, the diode voltage drops would be three times as much I think. )

If you wish to increase the output voltage by summing up the 4 voltages, then you would have to use 4 separate puffer capacitors at each diode bridge's output and connect these capacitors in series.

rgds,  Gyula

Offline jonnydavro

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Re: One magnet no bearing Bedini motor
« Reply #53 on: April 25, 2009, 01:40:59 PM »
@Bill.The "X"magnet thing is definitely a geometry thing.Some of my magnets are misshaped and not entirely symetrical.These are the "X "spinners but they are very stable so you want both types really to test different things.You just have to buy lots or be very choosy when you go to buy them.
I was looking at your last vid and if you get a good magnet it will stand up for sure as your coil seems to be working fine.One thing i would do though is i would try running on plastic.I use a coffee jar Lid and on top of that i put a thin clear plastic lid.The results are the magnet spins really fast and just makes a whine like a jet engine.You will find it a more pleasant experience and performance may increase as you get a bouncing effect from the hard glass surface as well as the noise.You may have to use two hands to start it as you may not be able to with one hand.You can see the lid i am refering to in the attached vid.
Regarding my slave coil.I am using the standard Bedini master and slave setup so the slave triggers at exactly the same time as the master so there is no conflict there regarding sync. ;)
@ All.Today i tested Comwarrior69's idea of using a darlington transistor instead of an npn and the results were quite interesting.I could get the magnet to maintain rotation on 3mA at 2.9V which is the lowest current draw i have had on a bedini to date.I also found that i could not get as high rpms as i can with an npn so i have asked Comwarrior if he has any suggestions on that.
The transistor i used for this test was a TIP 120.
Here is a vid of the test.Regards jonnydavro.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp9dWb-XeYc


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Re: One magnet no bearing Bedini motor
« Reply #53 on: April 25, 2009, 01:40:59 PM »
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Offline Pirate88179

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Re: One magnet no bearing Bedini motor
« Reply #54 on: April 25, 2009, 11:40:50 PM »
@ Jonny:

Thanks for the info on the X wobble.  I have not been able to find any local supplier here in town.  These thing used to be all over the place, but I went to like 10 stores and no one had them.  I may have to order more from online which is where I got the first 2.

I am using plastic for my surface.  That is a plastic dinner plate.  It has a very flat (for plastic anyway) and smooth almost polished surface without any defects.  I can find a way to quiet it down once I get it where I want to be.  In my second video, I have everything turned down...I started to open it up a little just to see if it straightened out with higher rpm and it did not, but it really, really got faster and even though I turned the pots back, it just kept going.  I was afraid in that X spinning mode, it can't take this really high rpm so I had to quickly unplug the battery.  My cat, of course, thought we were under attack from some unknown enemy and ran to hide under the bed.  It is hard to get good lab assistants these days, ha ha.

I think you are exactly right about the symmetry, or lack thereof, as being the defining factor in how these will spin.  Later, I will try errout's advice and mark my ends so I can try the other ends of each mag.  He said he has one that spins exactly like mine on one end, but perfectly straight on the other.  That one sounds like the ideal experimental magnet.  Thanks Jonny.

Bill

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: One magnet no bearing Bedini motor
« Reply #55 on: April 26, 2009, 05:46:38 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGcCX0ufZxQ

Above is a link to a youtube video I did just to see if I could get a cylindrical neo magnet to spin on this device.  As you will see, it spins very well.

Bill

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Re: One magnet no bearing Bedini motor
« Reply #55 on: April 26, 2009, 05:46:38 AM »
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Offline xenomorphlabs

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Re: One magnet no bearing Bedini motor
« Reply #56 on: April 26, 2009, 06:05:58 PM »
@Bill: I dont know if this was mentioned here before, but have you tried toy stores to find the snake eggs?
I have run around the city too to find them until i had the idea to ask in a toy store that has all kinds of weird souvenirs and stuff like this. Maybe you can find them there.

Cool idea with the cylindrical neos. Lol i am even sure one could get a squared magnet also to rotate  ;)


Offline gyulasun

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Re: One magnet no bearing Bedini motor
« Reply #57 on: April 26, 2009, 11:54:33 PM »
Hi Folks,

Maybe you could embed a cube or indeed a cylinder magnet into the inside bottom of a half sphere like a half ping-pong ball?

This way the noise could also be reduced.

rgds,  Gyula

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: One magnet no bearing Bedini motor
« Reply #58 on: April 27, 2009, 01:34:01 AM »
gyulasun:


Interesting idea.  I was trying to come up with something similar but not exactly.  Last night, I ordered some neo spheres of different sizes just to see how fast I can get them going.  They may not, probably won't be, very stable but....what the heck.

Xenomorphlabs:

That is a good idea about the toy stores.  I have already checked every one in town including Toys R Us.  I am sure there are some here somewhere in a drug store or some such place.  these used to be all over the place but, now that I want them....you know, Murphy's law and all.  Thanks for the idea.

Bill

Offline brownsville

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Re: One magnet no bearing Bedini motor
« Reply #59 on: April 28, 2009, 01:22:52 AM »
Jonnydavro - I finally got the magnet spinning and checked a 30 guage off the shelf 200 foot spool to see what kind of generation I could get - .7 volt AC up to 2.1 volt depending on if the magnet was stationary in the middle or if it was moving out around the perimeter. The highest readings came when the magnet contacted the edge of the spool.

I tried to add a second tier and get another magnet spinning - did not make it but the first magnet increased speed to where it ended up breaking the glass jar I used. Today I tried a smaller - all plastic - jar - got the same increase in speed as soon as the second magnet was removed. I think this can be done but the top of the next layer needs to very close to the top of the first magnet. The jar I tried today was still too much higher. The upper mag seemed really close to taking off a number of times.

Here is a video of the first try. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y60gRRh3jaM   SORRY ABOUT THE CAMERA ANGLE. First time.

I need to find out where to put the probes to check my power consumption on the Bedini circuit. Please help.

The second plastic jar was a bullion container and it worked really well. I was able to make a number of changes that made it quieter. When the mag picked up speed and bumped into the side it actually accelerated even more...I am not sure that the jar helps at all though as far as the pick-up coils were concerned. It placed the coils too far away from the magnet most of the time.

Thanks for all of the suggestions to get this one going. If I can do it I am pretty sure just about anyone can.

Brownsville 

 

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