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Author Topic: HHO watergas, very low power water electrolysis !  (Read 17851 times)

Offline pg46

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Re: HHO watergas, very low power water electrolysis !
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2006, 09:36:16 PM »
Hi wizkycho-

You are completely wrong, certanly. :)   are you so sure about that?

 Yes indeed, it is current flow that causes electrolysis to happen. I think that it has been well established that electrolysis of water starts at 1.23 Volts. Voltage doesn't matter directly excepting of course that you need enough volts to push the current through the cell, anymore than that and you are waisting wattage and your cell will be inefficient. The voltage across the cell is used to figure the wattage of the cell. The less voltage used to move a certain amount of amperage the more efficient the cell.
 The efficiency of the plate sizing per amps used is of course very important as is the plate spacing.
 Of course a multiplate series cell can have the same wattage as a single cell two plate design. A 60 plate cell using 120VDC drawing 2 amps is a 240 watt electrolyser unit whereas a 2 plate cell design at 12VDC drawing 20 amps is also the same wattage at 240 watts.
 So a 2 plate(or parallel plate)or multi plate series cell design, whats the difference? The 2 plate design is a low volt, high amp design where the multi-plate or series cell is a high volt, low amp design. The series cell is easy to build too and by keeping the cell voltage to around 2 Volts per cell it is then easier to control amperage and thus avoid the ever nasty "amperage runaway" . Amperage runaway is when the electrolyte solution continuously heats up thereby drawing more amps which then creates even more heat, which creates more steam and will soon give you a big headache. :D You don't want that.
 Some experimenters have shown a 3X increase in gas production of a series cell over 2 plate (parallel plate) designs. Also many have claimed that additional special gases are created in low amp cells. There is some interesting thoughts about why this might be. At high amps you produce as expected oxygen and hydrogen gas with maybe some water vapor. But at low amp designs as in the series cells, some claim that other forms of hydrogen are produced such as orthohydrogen from low amp cells and monohydrogen produced from pulsed input voltages etc. These "other" gases are supposedly a lot more powerful in terms of energy than regular gases produced by what some of us call "brute force" electrolysis which is the high amp electrolysers.
 Oops! I am getting deeper than I intended - so back to my  original point which was that Mr. Klein has built a common series cell design which is easy to build and which I agree can be very efficient. But with the exception of his elctronics which I didn't look into, he hasn't built anything magical.
 The general consensus amongst cell builders seems to heavily favor the multi plate, low amp series cell design over the other "brute force" cells.
 So don't fry your cells with high amps! Go with the series cells like our good friend Mr. Klein has done  8)


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Offline curbina

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Re: HHO watergas, very low power water electrolysis !
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2006, 09:00:01 AM »
Hi, well, I have been lurking here from time to time, but never registered till today, as I just was looking what you had to say about this HHO gas generator system.

I have been looking all aspects of this invention and so far found that it does not generate pure hydrogen and or oxygen, but is rather creating what Ruggero Santilli has called "A New Gaseous form of water", which is said to be magnecules, or atoms of H and O bound by magnetism rather than charge.

I have done the calculations on energy effciency and could say that it roughly puts 6 times more energy in the form of HHO gas than the electric energy input (gives 30 Kw in the form of gas, or 2 pounds of a 50.000 btu/ pound HHO gas, for each 5 Kw consumed), which is good but would not let much room for overunity with a 20% efficient internal combustion engine. It could run at best continuosly but without much spare energy to use.

If you dont believe me, I attached the Santilli paper about HHO Gas (Santilli worked with Denny Klein for the patent application for this device).

What mystifies me is that the gas can change the temperature according to the surface it touches. This is a whole new field in Physics, and Santilli has been ignored enough to believe that now is time for change.

I'd say that as long as this company markets this technology as a welding gas, it's gonna be allowed, but if they insist in automotive uses, they are doomed.