Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy
Antigravity => Other antigravity machines and devices => Topic started by: broli on March 12, 2009, 01:22:13 AM
-
Oke I thought this merited its own thread instead of being hidden somewhere. These videos explain and show simulations of using gyroscopes to produce a constant trust. Basically what he's saying is if precession is caused by a force (gravity) then what if WE induce the precession (by using a motor) will there be an induced force in the direction against gravity for instance? These simulations say yes...
Start by watching the oldest to newest: http://www.youtube.com/user/savata71
Here's the same idea experimented with...
http://www.intalek.com/Index/Projects/SmartSPIN_X2/SmartSPIN_X2.htm
Imagine that last one made to spin at thousands of rpm. It could have flown off. This should definitely be checked out. The answers are in front of us, we just need to move our lazy asses.
-
thats fasinating to me. thanks for sharing that find
-
I can't believe there is so little interest :o This is fantastic and shouldn't even be that difficult to do, I would have a go if I could afford the gyroscopes. The "super precision" high speed (12,000RPM) gyros cost almost $100USD each!
This makes me wonder about Tesla's flying machine, the people who made one said that there did seem to be something happening but it needed much faster speeds. On the blueprints for it there are circular weights on the ends of the rods (washers were used) but I wonder if they are supposed to be gyroscopes.
-
I was working on this idea years ago (check out JNLLABS) and where it is very interesting and more than likely possible it is highly inefficient and dangerous. A helicopter is more efficient.
Think of what might happen if 1 of the gyros stopped working or even worse became dislodged, it would destroy the craft instantly.
-
Yes naudin and others have at least confirmed these designs for over 10 years now. I guess without money you don't get to be part of anything. Btw how is a gyroscope more dangerous than anything that flies. If the helicopters blade breaks off the pilot is pretty much screwed and the people running on the ground too. I doubt this is the reason why we are not flying with these things. Also how is this highly inefficient? The gyroscopes once in motion need very little energy to stay in motion, so for the overall energy you just make a mini generator that is based on the same concept which powers the big gyroscopes. Compare that to the many thousands of parts a jet engine is made of and how brittle it is to anything that comes in it (birds ;D).
It is all very simple but no support is no fun.
-
You know, progress is not made without effort and for the record, helicopters were lethal and unreliable for the first few decades because they had to be developed. Just like everything else. Aviation is inherently dangerous but to get anywhere people had to design and try. Think of how people die driving cars, most things we do involving locomotion involve failures.
Because the Anti-gravity system uses high-speed gyroscopes there is a danger aspect because of the speed, but there is also an inherent balance in the system because of the high-speed rotating mass having a good deal of inertia and therefore stability.
I was working on this idea years ago (check out JNLLABS) and where it is very interesting and more than likely possible it is highly inefficient and dangerous. A helicopter is more efficient.
Think of what might happen if 1 of the gyros stopped working or even worse became dislodged, it would destroy the craft instantly.
-
It is all very simple but no support is no fun.
@broli
Don't be discouraged, we'll get there. Considering there is now good proof that the system will work it will just take some of us putting time and money(there's the REAL problem) in and once a relatively simple replication is possible the porject will be able to take off.
-
hi guys,
Im bit more familiar with helis than common man, also I have developed and built two gyro stabilized platforms,
(wheres speed up to 25k) tried with 2, 3, 4, 6 and 8 units, with and without gimbals ...
Wonder what you are trying - there is no way to get antigravity based on the principles of angular momentum by my opinion.
Of course I have seen these "fllying" contrivances ...drawings, pc simulated ...youtube experiments ... but not any working unit,
Have you seen?
Regards,
khabe
-
A net force is developed only during acceleration of said devices. Use pulsed power, over and over again.
-
hi guys,
Im bit more familiar with helis than common man, also I have developed and built two gyro stabilized platforms,
(wheres speed up to 25k) tried with 2, 3, 4, 6 and 8 units, with and without gimbals ...
Wonder what you are trying - there is no way to get antigravity based on the principles of angular momentum by my opinion.
Of course I have seen these "fllying" contrivances ...drawings, pc simulated ...youtube experiments ... but not any working unit,
Have you seen?
Regards,
khabe
Hi Khabe,
... very interesting things are coming up here. :)
I do have a heli-license and some RC Models too.
And sometimes i go flying with an Ultralight- Gyrocopter...
Germany has simply not enough space and therefore much to much government-regulations for all of this.
No fun. ..... Someday i have to go to australia for living. ;D
A while ago, i was playing with some Quadrokopters.
http://quadrokopter.net/ (... sorry for german language.)
May I ask, in which dimensions you are involved with those kind of things?
Best,
sushimoto
-
Hi Khabe,
... very interesting things are coming up here. :)
I do have a heli-license and some RC Models too.
And sometimes i go flying with an Ultralight- Gyrocopter...
Germany has simply not enough space and therefore much to much government-regulations for all of this.
No fun. ..... Someday i have to go to australia for living. ;D
A while ago, i was playing with some Quadrokopters.
http://quadrokopter.net/ (... sorry for german language.)
May I ask, in which dimensions you are involved with those kind of things?
Best,
sushimoto
hi sushimoto,
fully autonomous VTOL UAV 2m, two ready to fly,
one bigger on the half of way,
and of course lot of rc models too - huge lot of ::)
Gruss,
khabe
-
khabe show me a video of this same setup not running. or stop trolling. What ever you have seen was not meant for anti gravity in the first place. That's like saying...well I have been working with pigs my entire life but I never saw a flying pig. Just because you worked with them doesn't guarantee you seeing a flying pig ;D. Helicopters don't even come close to these rpm's and are way to heavy so forget about that. The x2 demo lifts (albeit very little) off the scale whenever it's ran, on naudin's site there are numerous confirmation of losing weight WITHOUT gaining weight first like you would have when jumping.
-
hi sushimoto,
fully autonomous VTOL UAV 2m, two ready to fly,
one bigger on the half of way,
and of course lot of rc models too - huge lot of ::)
Gruss,
khabe
2 Meters UAV? WOW
You must have access to some huge backyard? ;D
Where are you living?
Please mail me pictures. I am so addicted to it. Does whoopy knows about that?
Gruss zurueck,
sushimoto
-
khabe show me a video of this same setup not running. or stop trolling. What ever you have seen was not meant for anti gravity in the first place. That's like saying...well I have been working with pigs my entire life but I never saw a flying pig. Just because you worked with them doesn't guarantee you seeing a flying pig ;D. Helicopters don't even come close to these rpm's and are way to heavy so forget about that. The x2 demo lifts (albeit very little) off the scale whenever it's ran, on naudin's site there are numerous confirmation of losing weight WITHOUT gaining weight first like you would have when jumping.
... he was talking about gyroscopes used in helicopters and "multicopters".for stabilizing their position.
no trolling.
;D
-
khabe show me a video of this same setup not running. or stop trolling. What ever you have seen was not meant for anti gravity in the first place. That's like saying...well I have been working with pigs my entire life but I never saw a flying pig. Just because you worked with them doesn't guarantee you seeing a flying pig ;D. Helicopters don't even come close to these rpm's and are way to heavy so forget about that. The x2 demo lifts (albeit very little) off the scale whenever it's ran, on naudin's site there are numerous confirmation of losing weight WITHOUT gaining weight first like you would have when jumping.
hi broly,
You know - neve find those videoes exact when needed ::)
But anyway :
50mm diameter Gyro wheel -> 24.000 RPM = the same line-speed when 500mm helicopter rotor makes 2.400 RPM ,
... Right?
... Then angular momentum forces must to be the same ::)
I must to agree with you - gyroscopes are devilishly interesting things,
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=248021
Regards,
khabe
-
2 Meters UAV? WOW
You must have access to some huge backyard? ;D
Where are you living?
Please mail me pictures. I am so addicted to it. Does whoopy knows about that?
... he was talking about gyroscopes used in helicopters and "multicopters".for stabilizing their position.
no trolling.
Gruss zurueck,
sushimoto
Yeah, guys, seems now it started for me :'(
But OK - Im old enought for not to lie like whippersnapper,
Backyard I have 1 ha ... why you think I do fly on my backyard? OK, sometimes yes we do,
I do discern well about mechanical gyros ... pieso gyros ...Accelerometers ... please dont worry about,
We dont use mechanical gyros for positioning , MP2128heli - do you know what it is? Did cost $11,461.75 for me,
There are total two 3-d gyro systems on our UAV - one for copter via Autopilot, second for camera, there are two more accelerometers based systems if you like to know ...
Mechanical gyros I spoke before - gyro stabilized platform - we use like extra, for vibration damping when needed.
Cheers,
khabe
-
Yeah I know eric laithwathe, I recommend anyone to watch all the videos here...
http://www.gyroscopes.org/1974lecture.asp
They are very cool.
-
Yeah I know eric laithwathe, I recommend anyone to watch all the videos here...
http://www.gyroscopes.org/1974lecture.asp
They are very cool.
for example this kind of experiments I meant,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iu6kp6fSc3M&feature=related
There russian guys trying to fly but ... no way ::)
cheers,
khabe
-
Yeah, guys, seems now it started for me :'(
But OK - Im old enought for not to lie like whippersnapper,
Backyard I have 1 ha ... why you think I do fly on my backyard? OK, sometimes yes we do,
I do discern well about mechanical gyros ... pieso gyros ...Accelerometers ... please dont worry about,
We dont use mechanical gyros for positioning , MP2128heli - do you know what it is? Did cost $11,461.75 for me,
There are total two 3-d gyro systems on our UAV - one for copter via Autopilot, second for camera, there are two more accelerometers based systems if you like to know ...
Mechanical gyros I spoke before - gyro stabilized platform - we use like extra, for vibration damping when needed.
Cheers,
khabe
Sure i want to know. Your 11k$ -3D gyro seems to fit very well into our biped robot.
With all the cheap stuff in it.
It does more struggeling breakdance than walking. ;D
Yes, i know microPilot very well. A company of my earlier dreams,
but now, i just need a new car,
and never want to see burning fossils in my closer neighborhood or under my own hood.
Maybe some steam engine with "Theo Jansen" -legs could be an undersophisticatd but attractive project.
Flying cars in cities is a bit early in time since most common people
are not able to control their 2D-World...
Are you doing the UAV's just for fun or is there any other intention?
Are you selling your development?
Best regards,
sushimoto
-
Are you doing the UAV's just for fun or is there any other intention?
Are you selling your development?
Best regards,
sushimoto
It was like fun 12 years ago when bought first rc-heli for my son ...Robbe Moskito - crashed in one hour,
Total spent huge lot of ... now it feels it was my best investment what ever possible.
The best thing is when hobby and bread are in one place,
Today it is bread and butter 8)
Regards,
khabe
-
for example this kind of experiments I meant,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iu6kp6fSc3M&feature=related
There russian guys trying to fly but ... no way ::)
cheers,
khabe
Already seen that. And this proves what? That a hand spun system can become a few kilo's lighter? I fail to see your pointless debunking point. Get the thing spinning at 10.000+ rpm and then we'll see wether it has hope or not.
-
I think the whole idea is based on false premise. He just assumes there is a force and goes with it without considering other explanations.
For what I unerstand, the effect is much closer to the illustration below. An axial torque that is much more likely to bust your bearings or snap the axle than lifting you off the ground.
Nasa uses the same principle in their new robotic booms, so it's not completely useless effect. Not quite antigravity though.
-
Already seen that. And this proves what? That a hand spun system can become a few kilo's lighter? I fail to see your pointless debunking point. Get the thing spinning at 10.000+ rpm and then we'll see wether it has hope or not.
Hmm? Do you mean that 10k is the only right RPM and 24k I commonly use is wrong ??? ::)
Another point - two contra-rotating gyros on the same axis will by theory kill each other´s angular momentum,
I think that this vertically hyperkinesia comes because no rigid body because weak construction - axis changes, are not stabil,
When Satellite uses similar design stabilizers then axises are not perpendicular to centre but under angle.
What I can speak about "precision measurings" of forces under each leg ... I think that when one scale shows minus 1 then some another does (+) and summary it is (0),
There must be considered not only diameter, mass and speed - as well as time factor t and f in herz - those guys did? Im not sure about ::)
cheers,
khabe
-
I agree with retroworm, the stresses on the bearings would be enormous and as for not using a lot of energy once the rims are up to speed is crap, the whole precession effect causes lots of resistance.
-
Being weightless is B.S.
Just because a person weights less in water than out of water, doesn't mean the person's weight has changed. It only means the measuring of the object is using a different scale, due to less or no opposition forces (pressure) against each other, and must be taken into account when weighing an object.
Ant-gravity has nothing to do with the weight of the object, but has everything to do with the axial and angular momentums of the object.
A coaxial rotor on a helicopter cancels out the angular momentum of the two counter-rotating blades and it's still able to fly without a tail rotor. A tail rotor cancels out the angular momentum of the blades also, which allows it to fly with stability and control. The angular momentum must being canceled with an anti-gravity device, just like the helicopter.
Do we not want to cancel the angular momentum?
With the angular momentums canceled, won't this relieve the stress on the bearings?
-
Mmmmmh,
Now Im thinking about these Russian guys they spin this apparatus by hands, legs are on the ground.
But how they´ll do when it rises up this full machine ::) - wheres the GROUND then ???
Or they have something like "tail rotor" for "Artificial Ground" ???
How you can spin this apparatus in air?
cheers,
khabe
-
Mmmmmh,
Now Im thinking about these Russian guys they spin this apparatus by hands, legs are on the ground.
But how they´ll do when it rises up this full machine ::) - wheres the GROUND then ???
Or they have something like "tail rotor" for "Artificial Ground" ???
How you can spin this apparatus in air?
cheers,
khabe
All kinds of videos on youtube. The apparatus you're referring to doesn't have a chance to spin in the air......lol
-
Of course not, but some members will be very angry when I dont beleve it works ::)
Once I did not believe about ´Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...´ - oh dear I got a lot of earfuls ...
and ... my messages have been deleted >:(
Anyway - Gyroscopes are very interesting things,
Try to replicate Kenyon Gyro Stabilizer - its far not easy,
I dont speak about precision balancing of wheels, its impossible at home -
- just try to make a right design.
When its well done you can easily earn some good extras 8)
with due respect,
khabe
-
Of course not, but some members will be very angry when I dont beleve it works ::)
Once I did not believe about ´Selfrunning Waterpump-generator device runs 60 Watts lamp...´ - oh dear I got a lot of earfuls ...
and ... my messages have been deleted >:(
Anyway - Gyroscopes are very interesting things,
Try to replicate Kenyon Gyro Stabilizer - its far not easy,
I dont speak about precision balancing of wheels, its impossible at home -
- just try to make a right design.
When its well done you can easily earn some good extras 8)
with due respect,
khabe
No disrespect taken.
Then please tell my why NASA built a 20G gravity machine. Why do they need 20G's? Isn't 1G enough to simulate our natural gravity? Would not the 20G tear the machine apart? It's all interesting, but the real interesting thing is, it is being ignored. If gravity can be simulated, then anti-gravity can be also.....just reverse the process. How can this process be reversed? It should be very clear, if one put a little thought into it. I'm placing my bet on the gyro or a unidirectional force, because this is how the process can be reversed.
-
No disrespect taken.
Then please tell my why NASA built a 20G gravity machine. Why do they need 20G's? Isn't 1G enough to simulate our natural gravity? Would not the 20G tear the machine apart? It's all interesting, but the real interesting thing is, it is being ignored. If gravity can be simulated, then anti-gravity can be also.....just reverse the process. How can this process be reversed? It should be very clear, if one put a little thought into it. I'm placing my bet on the gyro or a unidirectional force, because this is how the process can be reversed.
Good night,
buona notte,
khabe
-
The simulation results could be an artifact from numerical round-off, position-samping errors or other limitations of NASTRAN. It uses traditional Newtonian physics equations and so is unlikely to capture any Laithwaite-type effects from spin. On each wheel-pair, the precession torques would be equal and opposite. When NASTRAN sums these, the zero result might lead to loss-of-precision or divide-by-zero problems.
To test for this problem, the four wheel rotation speeds could be made slightly different, around one percent or so. If the thrust effect vanishes and a slight wobble appears, that would suggest a simulation artifact.
-
No disrespect taken.
Then please tell my why NASA built a 20G gravity machine. Why do they need 20G's? Isn't 1G enough to simulate our natural gravity? Would not the 20G tear the machine apart? It's all interesting, but the real interesting thing is, it is being ignored. If gravity can be simulated, then anti-gravity can be also.....just reverse the process. How can this process be reversed? It should be very clear, if one put a little thought into it. I'm placing my bet on the gyro or a unidirectional force, because this is how the process can be reversed.
Nasa's gravity "simulators" are either centrifuges or parabolic flight airplanes. They create apparent conditions of weightlessness or extreme Gs for pilot training without actually affecting gravity. There's nothing unorthodox about them.
-
Nasa's gravity "simulators" are either centrifuges or parabolic flight airplanes. They create apparent conditions of weightlessness or extreme Gs for pilot training without actually affecting gravity. There's nothing unorthodox about them.
Did I say they were unorthodox? Why would you imply something needs to be unorthodox to have anti-gravity?
Don't the centrifuges affect gravity locally within the centrifuge?
Did I say you need to affect gravity locally or non locally to have anti-gravity.........lol
Did you not read my previous post about weightlessness being B.S? The weightlessness is just relativity B.S and the object's actual weight doesn't increase or decrease weather in a 0G or 20G environment.
What ever I say here, there's always rebuttal, even on the simplest of things......lol
There's not one thing that I said that isn't correct. Most of what I said were questions. Go ahead, fire away. That's what we do hear, is it not?
-
A gyroscope in and of itself isn't going to do anything spectacular. This thing needs to be modified and manipulated with other stuff. A wheel in and of itself is totally useless, until it is modified and manipulated with other stuff. A wheel won't do anything spectacular until you add magnets and coils to it. Now all of the sudden, a useless wheel is a generator or motor, and is no longer a useless thing, in and of itself.
Don't let your thinking stop at the gyroscope. Think how this gyroscope can be modified and manipulated with other stuff, to get the desired affect or results. I have a few ideas on this, and there are more than just a few. Don't limit your thinking to the object only, or you will always fall short, because it's possible capabilities were never fully explored due to limited thinking.
And there where many who said an airplane wouldn't fly (The body of an airplane won't fly either, until the other stuff manipulated and modified the airplane for flight). Physics at one moment couldn't understand how the bumble bee could fly. I could go on and on with this.
Think of the gyroscope as the main body of an anti-gravity machine, but it will need more than the body and motion it provides to ever be more than this. This is true for most things, but the pattern appears to break with the gyroscope........lol. A gyroscope can't possibly be more than it's body and motion........lol
The gyroscope is just the foundation. Now use this foundation to build something that can be more useful or beneficial. Now, stop saying the gyroscope is interesting and trying to prove it doesn't work. It will not work as is, with just the foundation. There is nothing to debate as long as it remains a foundation only.
Let's propose ideas to build on this foundation, then we can have a debate, if it will work or not!