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News announcements and other topics => News => Topic started by: zerotensor on March 11, 2009, 10:12:14 AM

Title: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
Post by: zerotensor on March 11, 2009, 10:12:14 AM
http://www.physorg.com/news110191847.html (http://www.physorg.com/news110191847.html)

This is a curious phenomenon...  Two beakers full of water are placed side-by-side.  A large electric field is created across two beakers of water.  It's not clear to me from the article whether the electrodes are in the beakers or not.  In any case, when the DC voltage is applied, water climbs out of the beakers and forms a bridge between them which grows and becomes stable.  The HHO crew should find this of some interest.

Title: Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
Post by: rensseak on March 11, 2009, 05:26:48 PM
http://www.physorg.com/news110191847.html (http://www.physorg.com/news110191847.html)

This is a curious phenomenon...  Two beakers full of water are placed side-by-side.  A large electric field is created across two beakers of water.  It's not clear to me from the article whether the electrodes are in the beakers or not.  In any case, when the DC voltage is applied, water climbs out of the beakers and forms a bridge between them which grows and becomes stable.  The HHO crew should find this of some interest.



the electrodes are inside the beakers.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=Floating+Water+Bridge&aq=f (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=Floating+Water+Bridge&aq=f)
Title: Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
Post by: Outlawstc on March 11, 2009, 09:47:55 PM
are you putting high voltage positive in one and high negative in the other?


outlawstc
Title: Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
Post by: mastahscott on March 11, 2009, 10:00:25 PM
Wow, cool .. Im glad someone figured that out.  Its merely electrolysis forcing the water up because of the release of hydrogen and oxygen.

http://www.physorg.com/news110191847.html (http://www.physorg.com/news110191847.html)

This is a curious phenomenon...  Two beakers full of water are placed side-by-side.  A large electric field is created across two beakers of water.  It's not clear to me from the article whether the electrodes are in the beakers or not.  In any case, when the DC voltage is applied, water climbs out of the beakers and forms a bridge between them which grows and becomes stable.  The HHO crew should find this of some interest.


Title: Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
Post by: hansvonlieven on March 11, 2009, 10:15:37 PM
@ mastahscott,

It's not quite as simple as that. For electrolysis to occur a current must flow. Before the bridge forms there is no current flowing since the beakers are not electrically connected.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
Post by: ramset on March 11, 2009, 10:21:50 PM
Hans
Thank you
This is a scientific anomaly at this point[they don't understand WHY it does this]

The real time vid is amazing
rennseaks link 2nd vid down 
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=Floating+Water+Bridge&aq=f
Chet                                                      
        
PS and thank you zerotensor for the post
Title: Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
Post by: powercat on March 11, 2009, 10:31:35 PM
HI Chet
Your video link is not working

cat

Thank's for the Edit
Title: Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
Post by: BEP on March 12, 2009, 06:02:36 PM
I don't understand why folks are so amazed at this.  When current flows a mag field is produced. The water is charged causing a manetic bottling. There is spin because of the mag field and current flow. This spin provides gyroscopic action. Each end of the bridge provides the point of torque. The water is simply doing the same as a gyroscope hanging by a string on one end.  Simplistic maybe but anyone got a better idea?
Title: Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
Post by: ramset on March 12, 2009, 06:23:41 PM
Bep

The scientists in the link zerotensur posted , say they don't know what causes this ?
They infer something sub atomic

Chet
Title: Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
Post by: BEP on March 12, 2009, 06:27:57 PM
I think they need to spend some time working with HV distribution.
Title: Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
Post by: hansvonlieven on March 12, 2009, 06:57:55 PM
G'day all,

I am inclined to think along the lines of BEP. When you look at the two beakers of water in close proximity to each other, they represent a sort of Leyden flask when first charged. One massive condenser. As the charge builds an electromagnetic field is created to which water, being diamagnetic reacts. Both magnetic poles seek each other out and if the two poles are not too far from each other form a bridge.

Something along those lines I think.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
Post by: BEP on March 13, 2009, 04:49:32 AM
If someone tries this I suggest they use lab grade water first (pure and almost non-conductive).
My idea may be off base on the 'electrical conduction of conventional current' part.
Instead, this may be an electrostrictive event.

BEP
Title: Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
Post by: ramset on March 13, 2009, 05:15:09 AM
wELL FOR SURE THE NUCLEAR PHYSICISTS ARE STRUGGLING WITH This
Title: Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
Post by: Michelinho on March 13, 2009, 05:25:39 AM

Here is the original article:
http://www.physorg.com/news110191847.html
Title: Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
Post by: Michelinho on March 13, 2009, 05:33:52 AM

Hi,

Apparently the water takes a form of liquid crystalline structure similar to ice.  That is all I remember of the lengthy explanation I was given when I first saw that water bridge in 2007.

Take care,

Michel
Title: Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
Post by: hansvonlieven on March 13, 2009, 08:00:43 AM
G'day all,

Water is a complex thing that is not completely understood by science. For a primer in water and its structure have a look at this Url on my website. There I tackle some of the problems confronting us with water.

http://keelytech.com/wasser.html

I hope it helps someone.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
Post by: BEP on March 13, 2009, 12:25:42 PM
wELL FOR SURE THE NUCLEAR PHYSICISTS ARE STRUGGLING WITH This

 ::)

Maybe its time for astrophysics to take a look at it. After all, its been a year.  ;D The nuclear folks tend to have problems beyond a few fs.

What bothers me is we've seen things very similar before. I recall a highschool science project that touched on this. Water pump with no moving parts....
A long glass tube with periodic internal anodes. The anodes were all the same polarity but increasing in voltage. Water ran uphill. The weird part was it took a spiral path inside the tube and it moved like oil. That would have been about 1969. No award was given because the water was pure and tasteless so it had no value.

This kid wasn't a genius. He got the idea from one of those magazines like "Popular Science".

We almost destroyed the science lab with his power supply after the event. :)

Come to think of it.... He wound up in prison for murdering his wife  :o
Title: Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
Post by: hansvonlieven on March 13, 2009, 08:26:57 PM
@ BEP,


Please tell us a bit more about this experiment. I have never heard of it and I cannot find any reference to it on the net. What voltages etc. were involved, where was the cathode in this, how far apart were the anodes? Perhaps a simple sketch to show the arrangement.

Anyone else know something about this phenomenon?

I would be obliged. I would really like to try this.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
Post by: jibbguy on March 13, 2009, 09:59:15 PM
Fascinating, very nice find ;)

So if water can be induced to attract with HV DC charge ... Then should it be able to be "repelled" also? Could it be made to work with seawater, too would be another interesting question.
Title: Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
Post by: BEP on March 13, 2009, 10:36:30 PM
?

I was a teenager with two interests. Girls and blowing holes in the lab bench.

The idea was to pump water without moving parts. Tap water just shorted the circuit. The teacher had to order water for the experiment.

The power supply was a huge variac on 120AC. The tube was glass with holes in one side like a flute. Electrodes were brass screws ground to a point. I remember the brass screws. He almost killed himself at the grinder and decided to use a file instead. The spacing varied from one end to the other. It increased as the distance grew from the suction end. The closest were probably 1/4 and the largest gap was probably about 2 inches. The tube was between 3 and 4 feet long and mounted as a 45 deg. incline.

The variac fed caps and diodes running up the bottom side of the glass tube. He went through a lot of plastic tubing before he had the spacing right. Finally the right idea was pure water made a fairly good dielectric. It did pump water uphill.

After the fair we had sparks jumping more than 6 inches before we fried the circuit. The caps and diodes were purchased at the Hamfest.

I don't remember the polarity. We didn't have a way to measure the voltage and didn't really care.
Title: Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
Post by: brian334 on March 13, 2009, 10:41:57 PM
So what, how does this thing make energy?
Title: Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
Post by: hansvonlieven on March 14, 2009, 01:09:01 AM
G'day Bep,

I think I have figured out from your description what the device is and how it works. For want of a better word I have called it an electrostatic pump. That is why the teacher needed distilled water because he needed a dielectric. It works similar to an ionic wind on a sharp point connected to a high voltage source.

I think your teacher used a Cockcroft-Walton Voltage Multiplier circuit to give him his gradient. I have drawn the circuit diagram below. This will work, though it would take a bit of fiddling about to get the anode spacings right as you say. The only thing in this that is strange is the vortex action and the viscosity change you described. This needs a bit of explaining. An interesting project.

Have fun

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
Post by: BEP on March 14, 2009, 01:38:32 AM
I think your teacher used a Cockcroft-Walton Voltage Multiplier circuit to give him his gradient.

I enjoyed that class more than any other since. The poor teacher didn't have a clue. If he did he would have killed the project due to the high voltage with lethal current. No, the pure water was the idea of the kid building the pump. My project used a voltage multiplier (I was building an X-ray source) with sudden discharge.

Ha! I don't think I've thought about those days for 40 years. Gawd! I was dangerous to myself and everyone within a few hundred feet. No wonder I was only good a blowing up the lab bench ::)

The teacher suggested we two get together and demonstrate a three-way light switch circuit. If we thought we could handle it we were allowed to show a four-way, as well  :)
Title: Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
Post by: wizardofmars on March 14, 2009, 07:48:17 AM

This is a scientific anomaly at this point

Incorrect - they have a hypothesis. Read the article:

...the group’s analyses have shown that the explanation may lie within the nature of the water’s structure. Initially, the bridge forms due to electrostatic charges on the surface of the water. The electric field then concentrates inside the water, arranging the water molecules to form a highly ordered microstructure. This microstructure remains stable, keeping the bridge intact.

The scientists reached the microstructure hypothesis after observing that the density of the water changes between the beaker edges and the center of the bridge. A microstructure consisting of an arrangement of water molecules could have a similar density variation.

Citation: Fuchs, Elmar C., Woisetschläger, Jakob, Gatterer, Karl, Maier, Eugen, Pecnik, René, Holler, Gert, and Eisenkölbl, Helmut. “The floating water bridge.” J. Phys. D: Appl. Phys. 40 (2007) 6112-6114.

The lead researcher gave a presentation last year which shows how the experiment was done.

http://www.bioeng.washington.edu/video/dept_seminar_presentations/SPR08/waterbridgedynamics.pdf

Note that these guys are actual scientists who document their results in detail. This is what real research looks like! Just imagine if any of the perpetual motion machine inventors in history had prepared any level of documentation like this. We'd all be enjoying free energy.  ::)
Title: Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
Post by: mastahscott on March 14, 2009, 10:08:08 AM
I said electrolysis hence electric yes., They are connected by electrolysis . Very simple really ,try it. Youll see why it makes sense. Besides , what difference does it make and who really cares.


@ mastahscott,

It's not quite as simple as that. For electrolysis to occur a current must flow. Before the bridge forms there is no current flowing since the beakers are not electrically connected.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
Post by: ramset on March 14, 2009, 06:39:27 PM
Wizard
Thank you for that link

Chet
Title: Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
Post by: triffid on March 16, 2009, 09:59:43 PM
test