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Author Topic: Water forms floating bridge in electric field  (Read 7505 times)

Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2009, 08:00:43 AM »
G'day all,

Water is a complex thing that is not completely understood by science. For a primer in water and its structure have a look at this Url on my website. There I tackle some of the problems confronting us with water.

http://keelytech.com/wasser.html

I hope it helps someone.

Hans von Lieven

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline BEP

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Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2009, 12:25:42 PM »
wELL FOR SURE THE NUCLEAR PHYSICISTS ARE STRUGGLING WITH This

 ::)

Maybe its time for astrophysics to take a look at it. After all, its been a year.  ;D The nuclear folks tend to have problems beyond a few fs.

What bothers me is we've seen things very similar before. I recall a highschool science project that touched on this. Water pump with no moving parts....
A long glass tube with periodic internal anodes. The anodes were all the same polarity but increasing in voltage. Water ran uphill. The weird part was it took a spiral path inside the tube and it moved like oil. That would have been about 1969. No award was given because the water was pure and tasteless so it had no value.

This kid wasn't a genius. He got the idea from one of those magazines like "Popular Science".

We almost destroyed the science lab with his power supply after the event. :)

Come to think of it.... He wound up in prison for murdering his wife  :o

Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2009, 08:26:57 PM »
@ BEP,


Please tell us a bit more about this experiment. I have never heard of it and I cannot find any reference to it on the net. What voltages etc. were involved, where was the cathode in this, how far apart were the anodes? Perhaps a simple sketch to show the arrangement.

Anyone else know something about this phenomenon?

I would be obliged. I would really like to try this.

Hans von Lieven

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2009, 08:26:57 PM »
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Offline jibbguy

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Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2009, 09:59:15 PM »
Fascinating, very nice find ;)

So if water can be induced to attract with HV DC charge ... Then should it be able to be "repelled" also? Could it be made to work with seawater, too would be another interesting question.

Offline BEP

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Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2009, 10:36:30 PM »
?

I was a teenager with two interests. Girls and blowing holes in the lab bench.

The idea was to pump water without moving parts. Tap water just shorted the circuit. The teacher had to order water for the experiment.

The power supply was a huge variac on 120AC. The tube was glass with holes in one side like a flute. Electrodes were brass screws ground to a point. I remember the brass screws. He almost killed himself at the grinder and decided to use a file instead. The spacing varied from one end to the other. It increased as the distance grew from the suction end. The closest were probably 1/4 and the largest gap was probably about 2 inches. The tube was between 3 and 4 feet long and mounted as a 45 deg. incline.

The variac fed caps and diodes running up the bottom side of the glass tube. He went through a lot of plastic tubing before he had the spacing right. Finally the right idea was pure water made a fairly good dielectric. It did pump water uphill.

After the fair we had sparks jumping more than 6 inches before we fried the circuit. The caps and diodes were purchased at the Hamfest.

I don't remember the polarity. We didn't have a way to measure the voltage and didn't really care.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2009, 10:36:30 PM »
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Offline brian334

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Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2009, 10:41:57 PM »
So what, how does this thing make energy?

Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2009, 01:09:01 AM »
G'day Bep,

I think I have figured out from your description what the device is and how it works. For want of a better word I have called it an electrostatic pump. That is why the teacher needed distilled water because he needed a dielectric. It works similar to an ionic wind on a sharp point connected to a high voltage source.

I think your teacher used a Cockcroft-Walton Voltage Multiplier circuit to give him his gradient. I have drawn the circuit diagram below. This will work, though it would take a bit of fiddling about to get the anode spacings right as you say. The only thing in this that is strange is the vortex action and the viscosity change you described. This needs a bit of explaining. An interesting project.

Have fun

Hans von Lieven

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2009, 01:09:01 AM »
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Offline BEP

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Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2009, 01:38:32 AM »
I think your teacher used a Cockcroft-Walton Voltage Multiplier circuit to give him his gradient.

I enjoyed that class more than any other since. The poor teacher didn't have a clue. If he did he would have killed the project due to the high voltage with lethal current. No, the pure water was the idea of the kid building the pump. My project used a voltage multiplier (I was building an X-ray source) with sudden discharge.

Ha! I don't think I've thought about those days for 40 years. Gawd! I was dangerous to myself and everyone within a few hundred feet. No wonder I was only good a blowing up the lab bench ::)

The teacher suggested we two get together and demonstrate a three-way light switch circuit. If we thought we could handle it we were allowed to show a four-way, as well  :)

Offline wizardofmars

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Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2009, 07:48:17 AM »

This is a scientific anomaly at this point

Incorrect - they have a hypothesis. Read the article:

...the group’s analyses have shown that the explanation may lie within the nature of the water’s structure. Initially, the bridge forms due to electrostatic charges on the surface of the water. The electric field then concentrates inside the water, arranging the water molecules to form a highly ordered microstructure. This microstructure remains stable, keeping the bridge intact.

The scientists reached the microstructure hypothesis after observing that the density of the water changes between the beaker edges and the center of the bridge. A microstructure consisting of an arrangement of water molecules could have a similar density variation.

Citation: Fuchs, Elmar C., Woisetschläger, Jakob, Gatterer, Karl, Maier, Eugen, Pecnik, René, Holler, Gert, and Eisenkölbl, Helmut. “The floating water bridge.” J. Phys. D: Appl. Phys. 40 (2007) 6112-6114.

The lead researcher gave a presentation last year which shows how the experiment was done.

http://www.bioeng.washington.edu/video/dept_seminar_presentations/SPR08/waterbridgedynamics.pdf

Note that these guys are actual scientists who document their results in detail. This is what real research looks like! Just imagine if any of the perpetual motion machine inventors in history had prepared any level of documentation like this. We'd all be enjoying free energy.  ::)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2009, 07:48:17 AM »
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Offline mastahscott

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Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2009, 10:08:08 AM »
I said electrolysis hence electric yes., They are connected by electrolysis . Very simple really ,try it. Youll see why it makes sense. Besides , what difference does it make and who really cares.


@ mastahscott,

It's not quite as simple as that. For electrolysis to occur a current must flow. Before the bridge forms there is no current flowing since the beakers are not electrically connected.

Hans von Lieven

Offline ramset

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Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2009, 06:39:27 PM »
Wizard
Thank you for that link

Chet

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Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2009, 06:39:27 PM »
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Offline triffid

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Re: Water forms floating bridge in electric field
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2009, 09:59:43 PM »
test

 

OneLink