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Author Topic: This must work! Altering magnetic field without cost. OU or not?  (Read 20355 times)

Offline kadora

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Re: This must work! Altering magnetic field without cost. OU or not?
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2009, 01:25:10 PM »
Hi Low Q

I can build your engine in my workshop but as Broli said we need
something simpler to check if your idea is working.
To be honest I dont understand exactly how your engine works therefore I am not able
to do any experiments based on your idea.
I have built two magnetic motors on principle of cancelling attractive and repulsive
force with no success so I am a bit cautious.
I wish you get it.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2009, 01:50:58 PM by kadora »

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Offline Low-Q

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Re: This must work! Altering magnetic field without cost. OU or not?
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2009, 05:50:53 PM »
Hi Low Q

I can build your engine in my workshop but as Broli said we need
something simpler to check if your idea is working.
To be honest I dont understand exactly how your engine works therefore I am not able
to do any experiments based on your idea.
I have built two magnetic motors on principle of cancelling attractive and repulsive
force with no success so I am a bit cautious.
I wish you get it.

It can be made very simple. I used so many magnets just to easier see the average torque and average counter torque. You need basicly only one statormagnet or maybe two in the real test machine. So it is very simple to build. I can make a drawing for you on how to build it.

Br.  Vidar

Offline Low-Q

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Re: This must work! Altering magnetic field without cost. OU or not?
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2009, 06:55:06 PM »
Since I like ideas that are based on 'chasing tails', I started with a small proof of principle, first only to find out if the forces in 2 opposite magnet "combs" are giving a sum of zero force for gliding i and out. I already found out that it is not so easy to build a construction that handles these forces.
Eric

Hi,

Engineering problems has never stoped engineers making things. However, in a 2D software I needed a comb to simulate two "solid" magnets side by side in "depth" of the drawing. Femm isn't 3D, so I had to simulate with combs. The same thing with the last design.

br.

Vidar

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Re: This must work! Altering magnetic field without cost. OU or not?
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2009, 06:55:06 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: This must work! Altering magnetic field without cost. OU or not?
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2009, 07:13:51 PM »
Some additional information about the way of working:

Look at Statormagnets 1. All these are spread around in a ring. The difference in the top an the bottom is that they are closer to eachother on the top. That means that this side has the dominating mass of magnets, and therfor also the dominating magnetic field.
This density of mass can be moved around in advanced of the rotormagnets polarization direction without actually move the magnets with the rotor direction. This means that the rotor actually doesn't chase the tail - because the tail isnt moving at all - just virtually so to speak because the statormagnets isn't moving physically sidways with the rotor. If the "tail" was moving too (Like if I fixed the rotor to the statormagnets), this would represent a counterforce equal to the torque in the rotor, so it wouldn't work.

In the design on the drawing, there is only the dominateing magnetic field that is moving and not the magnets itself. And with the statormagnets itself physically standing still sideways, the rotormagnet can be able to cross the magnetic fields - just what I want. Just as what happens when a magnet is moving towards equilibrium between two magnets apart, it is crossing magnetic fields.

I am so full of thoughts, so this explanation maybe more confusing than guiding....

Br.

Vidar

Offline lumen

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Re: This must work! Altering magnetic field without cost. OU or not?
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2009, 07:33:03 PM »

How to build your own over-unity generator.



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Re: This must work! Altering magnetic field without cost. OU or not?
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2009, 07:33:03 PM »
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Offline SomedayIsle

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Re: This must work! Altering magnetic field without cost. OU or not?
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2009, 08:06:38 PM »
So, in effect, one might produce a spin polarized current (read that: dense, coherent electricity) by implementation of a unique form of alternating current (RH, LH, Perpendicular RH)


In effect, a kind of 'halbach induction'.   Now imagine RH, LH, perpendicular RH, LH   for massive increases in current density/coherence.


Seems to me that you are looking at things from the Right angle, LowQ












« Last Edit: March 16, 2009, 01:46:04 AM by SomedayIsle »

Offline Low-Q

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Re: This must work! Altering magnetic field without cost. OU or not?
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2009, 08:38:23 PM »
How to build your own over-unity generator.



Hi,

Good idea! I haven't spent time yet to discuss your design with myself, but I will. However, I think your idea should be in a new thread so it maybe got more attention, than being in the middle of another thread about something quite different - and this thread would also stay more clear  :)

br.

Vidar

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Re: This must work! Altering magnetic field without cost. OU or not?
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2009, 08:38:23 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: This must work! Altering magnetic field without cost. OU or not?
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2009, 09:28:04 PM »
So, in effect, one might produce a spin polarized current (read that: dense, coherent electricity) by implementation of a unique form of alternating current (RH, LH, Perpendicular RH)


In effect, a kind of 'halbach induction'.   Now imagine an RH, LH, perpendicular RH, LH)  for massive increases in current density/coherence.


Seems to me that you are looking at things from the Right angle, LowQ


Hi,

What do you mean by RH, LH and Perpendicular RH. I lost you there - well most everything... :)

br.

Vidar

Offline kadora

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Re: This must work! Altering magnetic field without cost. OU or not?
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2009, 08:01:35 AM »
Hi Low Q
Can your engine work if magnets1 would be in the form of pistons
and magnets 2 in the form of cylinders ?
I still dont understand how you overcome point where attractive and
repulsive forces are balanced.
Would engine works if  the stator contains only four magnetic 1+2 arrays
devided 90 degree apart from each other ?

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Re: This must work! Altering magnetic field without cost. OU or not?
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2009, 08:01:35 AM »
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Offline Honk

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Re: This must work! Altering magnetic field without cost. OU or not?
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2009, 08:20:43 AM »
The model is very big. In a new model I've made, the joints in the crankshaft is 1 meter apart which is 0,5 meters from center.
The rotor is 7.6 meters in diameter. The torque of the rotor is 138 256 Nm, and each stator magnet provides an average of 96876 Nm
counter torque together on the crankshaft. That is about 30% less than the torque from the rotor.

I have a question for you regarding the torque.
What would the torque be if re-modeled to a 60cm diameter rotor? Total outer diameter may be 70-80cm.
I'd like to compare this to my own design and besides that I think 7.6meters is to big for most people to care about.
If presented in a smaller and easier to comprehend design it might catch replicators interest some more.
And it won't be as costly as a nuclear plant..... ;D

Offline Low-Q

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Re: This must work! Altering magnetic field without cost. OU or not?
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2009, 09:02:13 AM »
I have a question for you regarding the torque.
What would the torque be if re-modeled to a 60cm diameter rotor? Total outer diameter may be 70-80cm.
I'd like to compare this to my own design and besides that I think 7.6meters is to big for most people to care about.
If presented in a smaller and easier to comprehend design it might catch replicators interest some more.
And it won't be as costly as a nuclear plant..... ;D
I scaled it down to 60cm in diameter rotor, and 10cm deep, and the torque on the rotor alone is then about 95Nm. That is with 40 grade neos. If I have right about the countertorque I got about 30Nm in average for one revolution. If I have luck, I have all 95Nm. I tried to remove all the Statormagnets 2, and checked the force acting on the crankshaft. I marked all the Statormagnets 1 (I had deleted Statormagnets 2 to see what forces affecting Statormagnets 1 separately) and found that the total counterforce is only 5000N for the big model - compared to the 750 000Nm torque from the rotor. That is only 7 per thousand spent on altering the magnetconfiguration.

So either there is 30Nm or 95Nm to spare for pure torque in a 60cm rotor 10 cm deep....

However, I do not guarantee that my calculations are correct. There might be something i have overlooked, but I have only trusted the simulations and my math skills (Which I hope is a bit over the average ;D ).

Br.

Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: This must work! Altering magnetic field without cost. OU or not?
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2009, 09:02:13 AM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: This must work! Altering magnetic field without cost. OU or not?
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2009, 09:43:00 AM »
Hi Low Q
Can your engine work if magnets1 would be in the form of pistons
and magnets 2 in the form of cylinders ?
I still dont understand how you overcome point where attractive and
repulsive forces are balanced.
Would engine works if  the stator contains only four magnetic 1+2 arrays
devided 90 degree apart from each other ?

Well, all the statormagnet is connected via a crankshaft. If you try to separate two magnets like they do in the stator, they will each take force to slide them apart and away from the sticky spot. But there is allways a magnet set that is going together somewhere else - doing the very oposite. This force is equal, so the net force to separate two sets of magnets are therfor zero. If the rotor was made of a non magnetic material, you could use you little finger to rotate the rotor in a 7.6meter model - so to speak.

There is no point in using one magnet as piston and one as cylinder, but that will ofcourse work in the same way.

However, you do not need both Statormagnes 1 and 2 in the stator - only 1 or 2. So you could use magnets as pistons, and used a nonmagnetic material as a fixed cylinder. Now it really looks like a radial engine, and it is now easy to guide the magnets in the right directon. The main thing is however to let the most densed magnetmass (Where the magnets is at its closest to eachother) be in place where is makes the most unbalanced position in proportion to the rotor.

I have made another alternative that is easier to manufacture. I have used the original design as template, but removed the Statormagnets 2 and replaced the rotor with a pure magnet aligned 45 degrees.

I will put this design out here as son as I'm finished with it.

br.

Vidar

Offline Honk

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Re: This must work! Altering magnetic field without cost. OU or not?
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2009, 10:21:49 AM »
Thank you for that fast reply of yours.

It's pretty similar compared to my own design but I have stickyspots to overcome.
My design is 80cm wide (statormagnets and mounting steel included) and 10cm deep (15cm with mounting).
The stall torque is varying between 160-200Nm in my calculations, somewhat less in real life due to some design circumstances.
Taking the sticky spot in aspect I might hit 80-90Nm. I have yet to carefully measure the total torque accessible.

I scaled it down to 60cm in diameter rotor, and 10cm deep, and the torque on the rotor alone is then about 95Nm. That is with 40 grade neos. If I have right about the countertorque I got about 30Nm in average for one revolution. If I have luck, I have all 95Nm. I tried to remove all the Statormagnets 2, and checked the force acting on the crankshaft. I marked all the Statormagnets 1 (I had deleted Statormagnets 2 to see what forces affecting Statormagnets 1 separately) and found that the total counterforce is only 5000N for the big model - compared to the 750 000Nm torque from the rotor. That is only 7 per thousand spent on altering the magnetconfiguration.

So either there is 30Nm or 95Nm to spare for pure torque in a 60cm rotor 10 cm deep....

However, I do not guarantee that my calculations are correct. There might be something i have overlooked, but I have only trusted the simulations and my math skills (Which I hope is a bit over the average ;D ).

Br.

Vidar

Offline Thaelin

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Re: This must work! Altering magnetic field without cost. OU or not?
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2009, 11:58:54 AM »
      Over Under sidesways down

thay   ;D


Hi,

What do you mean by RH, LH and Perpendicular RH. I lost you there - well most everything... :)

br.

Vidar

Offline SomedayIsle

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Re: This must work! Altering magnetic field without cost. OU or not?
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2009, 03:21:55 PM »
Quote
Over Under sidesways down

thay   Grin

LOL!


Yeah, something like that.  Alternating current merely reverses polarity.  The real fun happens at induction.....at which point, more options are readily available.  I've seen a handful of setups which seek to utilize the "90 degree principle" to supply motive force.  Missing forest for trees.....

To me, the impressive thing about the "90 degree principle" is that one can get all those field transitions, or 'field changes' for next to nothing.


Magnets make great levers.


Levers with long, 'magic arms' that go right through all sorts of stuff......


 

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