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Gravity powered devices => Gravity powered devices => Topic started by: Alexioco on March 06, 2009, 12:28:00 AM

Title: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: Alexioco on March 06, 2009, 12:28:00 AM
Ok, here we go again, here is my latest design which seems to me to be getting closer...

Its a flip design: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=1zlej3c&s=5

(The "dotted" lines are the weights on the other side of the wheel...)

As the 4 weights descend on the right hand side, one weight is lifted up into the middle at the bottom via the black roller.
Just as the bottom weight reaches the centre, the top weight is flipped up and over to join the other descending weights in order to the lift the next weights again, and again and again....

Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: grayone on March 06, 2009, 03:17:38 AM
Alexioco

 That is a cool looking wheel. I hope it works for you. Do you think it will be able to flip both ends with the amount of friction that will cause?
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: Alexioco on March 06, 2009, 03:41:39 AM
Alexioco

 That is a cool looking wheel. I hope it works for you. Do you think it will be able to flip both ends with the amount of friction that will cause?

Hello my friend :) Your post is much appreciated! Yep, thats a very good point, I'm hoping that the amount of weights descending will be heavy enough to overcome that... The material will also have to be slippery, plus the two small wheels that flip the weights would also need to have an axle, so they turn, so they have less friction.

Something hit me when you said "flip both ends" If you look at the "toy page" in Besslers drawing, it shows hammer men that flip from one side to another... Just a thought


Alex
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: AB Hammer on March 06, 2009, 08:28:16 PM
Greetings Alex

 Well I believe to help reduce the friction in the shift would best be done by stagger them so only one shift happens at a time or some connectivity to take up and possibly work for counterbalance or even both.

I hope this helps some
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: Alexioco on March 06, 2009, 10:33:57 PM
Greetings Alex

 Well I believe to help reduce the friction in the shift would best be done by stagger them so only one shift happens at a time or some connectivity to take up and possibly work for counterbalance or even both.

I hope this helps some

Well i designed the weights to lift at the top and botom but not at the same time, is this what you mean?
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: AB Hammer on March 07, 2009, 01:40:33 AM
Greetings Alex

 Yes it is. It was close in the drawing, I missed it :-[. Another thing to consider is the length of each arm to try to overpower the flip. The weight 4 times on the arm is a leaver and it takes 4 times the weight to equal it. So you have to determine the leverage lengths with the over balance. Adding the weights on the descending side against the ascending side. Now is there enough advantage to flip the weight. Testing will help narrow that down. Here is a test for you. Take 5 rods wights 5 weights on 1 side of a wheel and put a roller at the bottom similar to your design. Then see if the other 4 will flip the 1 and then take one off and try again if it flips. Now if it won't flip, add another arm, or no further need to finish the build as is and go back to the drawing board to see what else can be done.
 
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: Alexioco on March 07, 2009, 03:12:47 AM
Well, quite a few months ago, I built this small wheel, except I only had the roller at the top, I didnt have one at the bottom, so the weights just hanged down at the bottom, anyway, as i Iet the wheel go, the weights started flipping at the top with quite a bit of force, but then stopped because like i say, i didnt have the bottom roller then...

The parts to the wheel are broken now so... Im thinking of starting to make this wheel I have posted (or try to) and just plsy around with it if it doesnt work, and see how I can improve on it..

Alex
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: spacetrax on March 07, 2009, 07:57:58 AM
Someone seems to have made a working Bessler wheel. Read in english on the lower half of this page:
http://www.alfa-forschung.de.tl/BESSLER_Rad--k1-I-.--k2-.htm
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: spacetrax on March 07, 2009, 08:00:09 AM
Is there any chance for the rotation of the Earth to be involved in the functioning of a Bessler wheel?
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: AB Hammer on March 07, 2009, 06:36:55 PM
Someone seems to have made a working Bessler wheel. Read in english on the lower half of this page:
http://www.alfa-forschung.de.tl/BESSLER_Rad--k1-I-.--k2-.htm

dpsvryrax

 I would have to be sceptically on this one. It fits the normal way cons start as well. Not saying it is a con, but it needs to be approached with a skeptical mind and wallet. We need physical proof. For even a hidden wheel will shown running, will show effects of possibilities if it is.
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: hansvonlieven on March 07, 2009, 09:13:29 PM
Someone seems to have made a working Bessler wheel. Read in english on the lower half of this page:
http://www.alfa-forschung.de.tl/BESSLER_Rad--k1-I-.--k2-.htm

Looks like just another scam.

Hans vonLieven
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: Alexioco on March 08, 2009, 01:11:55 AM
Well, im slowly but surely, starting to build this wheel, i cant say for sure if it will work, it seems a good idea, but if it doesnt, then its something i can mess with and learn from...
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: grayone on March 08, 2009, 02:49:10 AM
Alexioco

 I would like a little advice. I was thinking of posting my idea but after the stuff from Bessler007 I am not sure if I want to do that. I see you posted and he didn't jump on you. What advice can you give me about posting around the creeps here?
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: Bessler007 on March 08, 2009, 03:00:13 AM
Here's a little advice.  Can the name calling.

Here's some more.  Try an out of body experience.  That should get you away from a key creep.




Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB

edit:  here's a little more free advice.  Keep away from vague generalizations (after the stuff from Bessler007) that are next to impossible to address and be specific.  Develop your ability to express yourself concisely.  It's a good skill.
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: grayone on March 08, 2009, 03:33:48 AM
Sorry Alexioco; It looks like I brought one with me. I guess I will have to try my personal message option.

Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: Alexioco on March 08, 2009, 03:54:46 AM
Firstly I dont mean to be rude to anyone but: If I have to read anymore nonsence on my own topic which has nothing to do with what i intended it for, then I shall refrain from making anymore posts here just to have them spammed again...

Grayone: If you have a design but are not sure weather to post it, then I suggest you hold back or share it with someone you can trust, best by Email I should imagine... I can give you a helping hand if you like? I'm always interested in what other peoples inventions are like :)

Alex
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: Bessler007 on March 08, 2009, 04:03:36 AM
Sorry Alexioco; It looks like I brought one with me. I guess I will have to try my personal message option.



I don't know about sorry; could be.  You most certainly are an arrogant piece of tripe to think you can call people names and not get it back in your face.

Level with me.  Are  you really that stupid?




Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: Alexioco on March 08, 2009, 04:05:42 AM
I don't know about sorry; could be.  You most certainly are an arrogant piece of tripe to think you can call people names and not get it back in your face.

Level with me.  Are  you really that stupid?




Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB

Do you mind? I dont want this topic spamming please.... Thanks
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: Bessler007 on March 08, 2009, 04:23:40 AM
Do you mind? I dont want this topic spamming please.... Thanks

Hello Alex,

Actually I do mind yet I'm thinking I'll relent to your request.  Now if you didn't want the topic to be "spamming" as you put it, you would have objected when I was verbally abused and attacked.  :)

You didn't. 

None the less I might relent to your request.




Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB

Hello Alex,

I've made a decision.  If any one would like to talk out their ralph and spew alan all over the place about me here's the place to do it.  I won't respond.

:)
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: Alexioco on March 08, 2009, 05:26:12 AM
Hello Alex,

Actually I do mind yet I'm thinking I'll relent to your request.  Now if you didn't want the topic to be "spamming" as you put it, you would have objected when I was verbally abused and attacked.  :)

You didn't. 

None the less I might relent to your request.




Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB

Hello Alex,

I've made a decision.  If any one would like to talk out their ralph and spew alan all over the place about me here's the place to do it.  I won't respond.

:)


I dont agree with any of this, I just want to continue with my topic, i object to all spam weather it be about me or you or anyone eles, understood? Now lets continue with my topic, anyone who goes off from here is to blame...

I think that with my wheel, it needs looking at, because of the friction, any ideas?

Alex
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: Bessler007 on March 08, 2009, 05:57:48 AM

I dont agree with any of this, I just want to continue with my topic, i object to all spam weather it be about me or you or anyone eles, understood? Now lets continue with my topic, anyone who goes off from here is to blame...

I think that with my wheel, it needs looking at, because of the friction, any ideas?

Alex

There are only 2 possibilities that could explain this condescension:

Quote
anyone eles, understood?

I do have thoughts and actual models addressing the idea of friction.  The December build had frictions of mechanical systems that rivaled magnetic bearings.  It still didn't work.  No alan.

I have every intention of keeping them to myself.

You may have no objection to anyone being attacked yet you only mentioned an objection when it was me returning the favor.

I don't mine.

Good luck with your build, brother.

understood?


Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: Alexioco on March 08, 2009, 02:30:04 PM
There are only 2 possibilities that could explain this condescension:

I do have thoughts and actual models addressing the idea of friction.  The December build had frictions of mechanical systems that rivaled magnetic bearings.  It still didn't work.  No alan.

I have every intention of keeping them to myself.

You may have no objection to anyone being attacked yet you only mentioned an objection when it was me returning the favor.

I don't mine.

Good luck with your build, brother.

understood?


Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB

Firstly let me clear this up, anyone here who attacks a fellow member/staff with insults, filthy language or anything of that kind is as bad as the one who started it, and perhaps even worse!!! So concidering what I have just said, shall we now continue to either:
posting in a sensible manner or
if you cannot get along, dont post at all.

Because if anyone here continues to post insults or anything of that kind, then really its a question of "do you enjoy it?"
and the Admin here should be sorting this out, not ignoring the problem, if I was admin here, I would of sorted this problem out ages ago...

anyway, lets move on...

So you are not posting some ideas? fair enough...

If I make the parts that rub over the "roller" out of wood, there will be to much friction, what best material would one suggest here?

Alex
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: AB Hammer on March 08, 2009, 02:48:43 PM
Greetings Alex

 I would suggest a bearing with a rubber outer edge or like a roller skate wheel. I know the rubber sound contradicting with friction, but it will hold and transfer to the axle of the bearing any slippage could be counter acting. Also for the bearing despite of being greased. Spray a little wd40 into it to help loosen the bearing.
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: spacetrax on March 09, 2009, 05:09:59 PM
Looks like just another scam.

Hans vonLieven

Yes, I believe so, they are making a lot of advertising - including for buying gold for the hard times to come...  ;D
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: Alexioco on March 09, 2009, 08:32:25 PM
Greetings Alex

 I would suggest a bearing with a rubber outer edge or like a roller skate wheel. I know the rubber sound contradicting with friction, but it will hold and transfer to the axle of the bearing any slippage could be counter acting. Also for the bearing despite of being greased. Spray a little wd40 into it to help loosen the bearing.

Ok, sounds good, I will have to buit the parts yet though, I think the wheel has a good, do you think mroe weights are needed though to make sure that enough weights fall in order to lift the two weights at seperate times?
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: grayone on March 13, 2009, 09:58:04 PM
Ok, sounds good, I will have to buit the parts yet though, I think the wheel has a good, do you think mroe weights are needed though to make sure that enough weights fall in order to lift the two weights at seperate times?

Alexioco; I like what you said, and wish you lots of luck on the build. More weight for each action.
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: Alexioco on March 13, 2009, 10:23:23 PM
Alexioco; I like what you said, and wish you lots of luck on the build. More weight for each action.

Or what if I raised the weights at the bottom by another manner? I'm not sure
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: Alexioco on March 15, 2009, 04:16:41 AM
Ok, here is the latest information on my wheel design...

There has been a design change,

As you can see, the inner ascending weights are flipped up and over the small "flip wheel" at the top of the wheel to take a position with the rest of the descending weights in order for the next inner ascending weight to be flipped up and over.

In total there are 16 weights, 8 inner ascending weights and 8 outer descending weights. There has to be alot of weights so each weight can be flipped up and over the "flip wheel" with ease. I have tested this roughly by sticking the 15 weights in their positions and attaching the 16th weight onto an arm then letting the wheel go and watching it flip over a pencil (used as a flip wheel) the weight flips over weather it gets a run up or not. Now lifting the weights up at the bottom is the next challenge, I have two ideas in mind:

1. Arange 17 (odd number) weights so that one weight flips up at the top, then just after one flips up at the bottom (via another "flip wheel"), the top and bottom weights could not lift at the same time as it would be to much on the wheel.

2. Cause the bottom weight to flip up into the axle by some other means


Help would be much appreciated, thanks :)

Alex
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: AB Hammer on March 16, 2009, 01:05:18 AM
Greetings Alex

 I am still thinking and I might be able to think a little clearer after I finish with this event for my armour.
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: AB Hammer on March 19, 2009, 01:21:59 AM
Greetings Alex

 Next week, I will finally get back to a wheel work schedule. At least one day a week. ;D
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: Alexioco on March 19, 2009, 01:46:35 AM
Greetings Alex

 Next week, I will finally get back to a wheel work schedule. At least one day a week. ;D

Hi Alan, thats great, thanks again for taking the time and having an interest in my design :)

How will you go about building it?


Alex
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: AB Hammer on March 19, 2009, 03:02:25 PM
Greetings Alex

 I will not be posting on OU for awhile, while I am building. I will email you more as I progress on the work.

Keep optimistic for without optimism and the dreams, there is no chance.
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: Alexioco on March 19, 2009, 09:01:31 PM
Greetings Alex

 I will not be posting on OU for awhile, while I am building. I will email you more as I progress on the work.

Keep optimistic for without optimism and the dreams, there is no chance.


I will try my best, I will speak to you by Email then.

So what does everyone eles think of this idea? Any tips somone can post?

Alex
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: grayone on March 20, 2009, 01:32:03 AM
Alexioco

 I haven't built much, I still see a friction and leverage problem, in my openion. But what you said makes since. I will be looking forward to how it works out.
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: Alexioco on March 20, 2009, 02:37:21 AM
Alexioco

 I haven't built much, I still see a friction and leverage problem, in my openion. But what you said makes since. I will be looking forward to how it works out.

Cool, ok, I am going to attempt to start the build next week, and im going to make a good job of it (I hope) one thing that is bothering me is, the previous wheel I built, I can reuse that wheel, only problem is, the axle is not dead centre so the wheel turns on its own at a certain position, can you buy read made wooden wheels?

Alex
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: AB Hammer on March 28, 2009, 02:20:48 AM
Greetings Alex

 On the design so far. We can only get 4 arms per layer, so we are going to have to do several layers and a different trip set per layer. The hole structure will have to hold to the axle and the trips on the main stand.  Now to be determined how many layers it will take for this design to make the trips work.
Title: Re: Besslers Wheel?
Post by: Alexioco on March 29, 2009, 10:58:49 PM
Greetings Alex

 On the design so far. We can only get 4 arms per layer, so we are going to have to do several layers and a different trip set per layer. The hole structure will have to hold to the axle and the trips on the main stand.  Now to be determined how many layers it will take for this design to make the trips work.

Alan, thanks for this, sounds really interesting, you will have to show me a pic when you are further :)

thanks

Alex