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Author Topic: First electrical power output from a Pyramid  (Read 459763 times)

Offline spacetrax

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Re: First electrical power output from a Pyramid
« Reply #210 on: November 23, 2007, 07:47:04 AM »
Hi,
I have to contradict you, Thomas said that the graphith electrodes must NOT be in the salt water at all. See: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,695.msg60151.html#msg60151
Cheers!

@Tigrotto,
yes, the sand is filled up into the whole copper tubbing,
so the graphite rods are inside the tube all covered with sand,
maybe not just the top of them, where the wires are connected...
this we still need to ask Mr. Traw?ger..
But the saltwater is only injected into the left hole until it drops
out at the right hole, so only the lower parts of the graphite rods
stand in the wet sand-saltwater.
He said too much saltwater is not good...
Just a bit wet sand. So this is basically a galvanic cell and produces around
0.7 to 1 Volt DC voltage.
Maybe this is  just an energizer voltage so the LC circuit resonates..
but normally you need some kind of  active device like a transistor to
control the oscillation...
I don?t yet understand how this thing generates DC voltage at the output
and also this high....19 Volts.. andso much power...

Well, we need to research this.

Regards, Stefan.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: First electrical power output from a Pyramid
« Reply #210 on: November 23, 2007, 07:47:04 AM »

Offline pese

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Re: First electrical power output from a Pyramid
« Reply #211 on: November 23, 2007, 07:49:04 AM »
@Tigrotto,
yes, the sand is filled up into the whole copper tubbing,
so the graphite rods are inside the tube all covered with sand,
maybe not just the top of them, where the wires are connected...
this we still need to ask Mr. Traw?ger..
But the saltwater is only injected into the left hole until it drops
out at the right hole, so only the lower parts of the graphite rods
stand in the wet sand-saltwater.
He said too much saltwater is not good...
Just a bit wet sand. So this is basically a galvanic cell and produces around
0.7 to 1 Volt DC voltage.
Maybe this is  just an energizer voltage so the LC circuit resonates..
but normally you need some kind of  active device like a transistor to
control the oscillation...
I don?t yet understand how this thing generates DC voltage at the output
and also this high....19 Volts.. andso much power...

Well, we need to research this.

Regards, Stefan.

Wenn der Sand bie Oberkante Grafit-elektroden eingef?llt wurd (wodurch auch die st?be ihren Halt bekommen!) wird auch ds Salzwsser unbedingt umd immer die komplette Elektrode benetzen , da das wasser den Sand hinaufkriecht - Osmose).
Also nur soviel Salzwasser bis ein ?berschuss herausl?uft ?
Aber das sind ja Dinge , die man probieren kann!.


HATTEN DIE ?GYPTER SCHON STROM ?

Diese Frage wird nun plausiebler !!?

Wer erinnert sich nicht an die Darstellungen dieser riesen Glasballons die jemand mitsichf?hrte ?
Wohl ein Metallgl?hwendel drin ??
Vakuum , geht nicht in dieser Gr?sse , ABER druckloser Stickstoff.

Ein Kabel (Schlauch?) ist angeschlossen und f?hr zu einen kleinen Kasten !!
Ist hier die Empfangspule?- die dann nat?rlich innerhalb der "grossen" Pyramide auch arbeiten k?nnte !  (Nat?rlich rein spekulativ ! Wenn die Frage erstmal DA ist , kann man alles exerimentell erproben !! Die Theorie , kann NUR GEDANKENANSTOSS zu EXPERIMENTEN sein. (So auch
bei Thomas Traw?ger , wie er sich mehrmals ?usserte)




Pese
« Last Edit: November 23, 2007, 09:35:49 AM by pese »

Offline Thomas_Trawoeger

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daily update...
« Reply #212 on: November 23, 2007, 07:55:17 AM »
hello to all..

First, let me say thousand Thanks to Stefan Hartmann for his great work.. I hope, the plan is now better understandable to all non-german speaking guys out there  ;D

Stefan spoke about downs in our webproject. I can swear everybody, that the website wasn?t down any minute till now, and it will stay online the next few month. We only change the scripts, and so it could be possible, that the website is down only by minutes (for up- and downloading scripts and content.

My new garage is prepared with cameras and tool, and so we can go ahead with our project just in time. We will finish our website this night, and so it could be, that you can find the first step of construction tomorrow evening in our website.

in the first step, we will give you the list of the first needed materials to organize.

If it?s allowed, i use the Stefan translations even in my website ( i prefer to ask the Content Owner  ;)

Maybe Stefan could help me some time with small translation works, because his english is absolutely perfect in technical belongs!

In my last Post her, i pleased you, not to subscribe in my website, because the scripts don?t work proper.
This was not believed from 21! (twentyone) guys  ;D

I got some critics, why i opened the registration, if its not working.
well, guys, for to test something, you have to put it online for testing.
It was my fault, to tell you the domain, before everything was working proper.
So let me say "SORRY" for my Mistake. I pronounced the website to early, but i did this only, to show you my will to do it.

I hope, that in latest 24-30 Hours everything runs quite well, and you can foregive me this fault....
Have a happy day
Thomas

PS. I?m a little sad, that some people wich are reading here didn?t spend any word to the community. Ther are some guys from Thailand and US tell me great storys, but noone will give here any sentence...
It?s not fair, to get informations from this Site, but stay silent, if some success appeares.
I will remember to this guys, and i am not shure, if i will invite you to my website  :-\

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

daily update...
« Reply #212 on: November 23, 2007, 07:55:17 AM »
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Offline Tigrotto

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Re: First electrical power output from a Pyramid
« Reply #213 on: November 23, 2007, 09:36:57 AM »
@Thomas
@Stefan
Congratulations also from me to Stefan .
I did the drawing, he did the corrections, Thomas approuved.
All of us , I  hope , read the Stefan's translation.
We have to solve two  great misunderstandings , hopefully, using the valuable help from Thomas, as developer:

First misunderstanding: The low end of graphite rod : In water-salted or outside the salted-water?
There are two opposite sentence here, in the translated text:
The first one:
Bore at the right side a small hole approx.  2mm diameter into the copper tube.
This hole must be somewhat more below than the Graphiterod`s end !!!
(distance at least 2mm) :
The second one:
SLOWLY inject saltwater until the Graphiterods are standing with their lower ends in the saltwater-sand solution.
Comment:
The first sentence meant : the lowest end of the Graphite rods are ABOVE the salted-water LEVEL. So that NO ELECTRICAL CONTACT GRAPHITE-SALTWATER.
The second sentence meant: the lowest end of the Graphite rods are INSIDE ( IMMERSED) in  saltwater . So that there must be an  ELECTRICAL CONTACT GRAPHITE-SALTWATER.
We are kindly asking Thomas and Stefan to clarify this possible misunderstanding.

The second "obvious misunderstanding " is  regarding the 25mmx140mm 8 2 plates) capacitor. One plate connected to pyramid frame+Earth, the second its plate connected where: Let's take a look at the translation of two sentence below:
The first sentence says:
A small plate capacitor (approx. 25x 140 mm)where only the plus pole is going through and the negative pole comes from the pyramid frame  can multiply the power output of the pyramid.
The second sentence says:
(Note: The negative pole must be connected from the pyramid frame to this capacitor to the other capacitor plate.)
Comments:
From the first sentence is not obvious " only th plus pole is going through": What does it mean?
From  the second sentence: What does it mean " to the other capacitor plate": Who is this " the other capacitor plate"? Is the same capacitor
 ( 25mmx140mm , or is the 10 plates great capacitor???
A thing is obvioud: one of the 2 plates of this 25mmx140mm capacitor is to be connected to the frame+Earth.
The second its plate is to be connected where?
Needless to say that I talked with some others of our friends here on private post and they also have the same doubts! this is not only my misunderstanding ( however, justified!)
Thanks in advance,
Tigrotto

Offline freecell

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Re: First electrical power output from a Pyramid
« Reply #214 on: November 23, 2007, 11:14:05 AM »
Hi Thomas,

did you ever have test to take copper-tubes instead of steel-Cuppers for the Pyramidframe?

Coppers-Tubes and Plates are more easy to soldering als to welding the Steel-Tubes.

Greeting, freecell

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: First electrical power output from a Pyramid
« Reply #214 on: November 23, 2007, 11:14:05 AM »
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Offline freecell

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Re: First electrical power output from a Pyramid
« Reply #215 on: November 23, 2007, 11:16:11 AM »
Hi Thomas,

did you ever have test to take copper-tubes instead of steel-Cuppers for the Pyramidframe?

Coppers-Tubes and Plates are more easy to soldering as to welding the Steel-Tubes.

So i thinking about this point to construct or to test my Rebuild with Copper-Tubes.
If you haven't any experience with copper-Frame i start the rebuild with copper-tubes and tell here, if it work or not.

Another Alternative, where to rivet (nieten) the Steel-Tubes.

P.S. Es lebe leo.org :)

Greeting, freecell

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: First electrical power output from a Pyramid
« Reply #216 on: November 23, 2007, 11:27:36 AM »
Hi Tigrotto,
if you look at the pictures at the beginning of this thread
it is getting clear:
The minus pole is only connected to the lower frame and to
the left output capacitor plate.

The plus pole comes from output E from my redrawn graphics and
goes via the other capacitor plate to the output.

This circuit makes not much sense in the "normal" logical
way in circuit theory,
but it might be just some kind of one wire RF energy transfer,
but for to get a DC voltage it would
miss the 2 Avramenko plug diodes...
Hmm. maybe he is using 2 dissimular metals before the last capacitor
which work with their connection as a rectifier ?

Otherwise I can not understand how DC voltage will come out of this
thing, if not just the battery voltage of the graphite-copper is converted up
in voltage and power output ??


Yes, Thomas, you can of course use my translation on your
website.

Many thanks again for coming forward with your explanations.

Maybe you can provide a few scopeshots also of the
energizer unit in the center ?
Does it resonate ? At what frequency ?
How is the frequency converted to pure DC Voltage at the putput
without any diodes ?


P.S. The graphite rods as I understand it must be just a bit wet via the
sand.
This gives also the best galvanic cell voltage, if the sand is just wet enough.
If there would be too much saltwater inside the sand, then the output would be
reduced, cause the sand would  not have too much contact with the graphite electrodes...

So maybe the rectifier effect also comes from the wet SIO2 sand touching the
graphite rods ?? Could well be... So maybe this is just a DC Voltage effect from
the wet sand touching the copper and the graphite...
As CuO is also a semiconductor and it could built up
on the copper surface, this might all be surface effects of the used materials
together with the "special" height radiation of the aligned pyramid..
So it probably depends a lot, which sand you are using and how
good the semiconductor properties it has and how much
copperoxid the copper tube had, before you filled in the sand and
the graphite electrodes...
So the used materials could be major important to get it to work correctly...

Regards, Stefan.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: First electrical power output from a Pyramid
« Reply #216 on: November 23, 2007, 11:27:36 AM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: First electrical power output from a Pyramid
« Reply #217 on: November 23, 2007, 11:43:03 AM »
P.S: Gustav Pese is right,
as the sand is hygroscopic, it will
"suck up" the saltwater, so all the saltwater and also the
graphite rods will be a bit wet... so if you
inject there some saltwater, the whole sand will
sooner or later be a bit wet...

Thomas said, the whole tube must not fully be filled with
saltwater, so too much saltwater is not good, but the sand
must be wet.

Maybe one could also already mix the sand with saltwater before
filling it in,but then probably the wet sand will not go well in between
the copper tube and the graphite spacing and there might be
air bubbles and holes this way..

Could also be, that it is important to let is stay for a while, so that
at the inner copper wall will build up some copperchloride CuCl2
which might help the semiconductor effect in rectifying the RF oscillations...

From my saltwater battery research I have seen, that with gaphite in the cells,
the graphite get never consumed, only the metals.
But sometimes ( e.g.with the durafix metal rods) the voltage just oscillates a bit
when the oxidation of the rod happens and as the metal goes into ions,that the voltage
will change a bit. Maybe this is used also here to start the RF oscillation
with the LC circuit ...
So this will really depend on many parameters...

But maybe there is an additional effect because of the shielding
of the copper tube of the galvanic cell, as the copper tube shields
all the electrostatic action as only the inner walls of the copper
have contact to the electrolyte... this might also give a special effect,
cause in normal copper-graphite saltwater batteries all the copper,
also the outside of a copper pipe has contact to the saltwater electrolyte...
But here it is shielded !

And
normally, if you give electrons to the inner wall of a copper pipe
they always will go to the outside wall, so there might be a
no "drag back"effect from the current...

so the current generation could
get maybe a smaller inner resistance and the cell could deliver more power this way ?

Offline Tigrotto

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Re: First electrical power output from a Pyramid
« Reply #218 on: November 23, 2007, 12:45:20 PM »
OK guys,
It looks like we understand how to built the setup ( of V6), but I have to stress here on the "fine-tuning" of this experiment.
Some confusion was regarding the level of Salted-water.

I'll repeat: the bore in the copper-pipe is to be done BELOW THE END OF GRAPHITE ROD ( Thomas said 2mm).
Nevertheless, the sand being hygroscopic , will be still wet even 2mm above the level of the two bores. I think i'm not wrong.
The missing point is this : How wet have to be the sand at the level of the graphite rod.
This is why i thought at something as a fine tuning to overcome this problem whit many variables, and I KINDLY ASK THOMAS TO GIVE US HIS OPINION REGARDING THIS "FINE TUNING".
Do you remember: Thomas himself identified  ( see, please the end of stefan's translation!) as main sources of failure/errors right the position of the salted-water level.
The solution could be: A micromechanical adjustment of the depth of penetration of the graphite rod into the sand, or better : the fine tuning adjustment of the distance between the end ( low side) of the graphite rod and the position od the bore ( as refference!).
Identical , obviously , for both the two rods!
I dare to ask the authorized opinion/ advise of Thomas, the only one having faced practically with this problem.
Thanks in advance, Thomas

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: First electrical power output from a Pyramid
« Reply #218 on: November 23, 2007, 12:45:20 PM »
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Offline Thomas_Trawoeger

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Re: First electrical power output from a Pyramid
« Reply #219 on: November 23, 2007, 12:54:09 PM »
@freecell: I tryed to build the pyramide with copper-tubes, but it didn?t work proper. (I don?t know why)
As i changes the construction into wood, it worked absolutely not, because there was no minus pole.

I don?t know why, but it works best with graphite or carbone- material.
I use simple metal, because its cheap, easy to use, and good for power.

@stefan: It?s really a little tricky to mix sand and saltwater before you insert it into the pipes. So follow my description, wich works best. When you fill the tubes with saltwater, you will se a very bad effect.
(The pyramide will produce only very low power for aproxx. 10-10 min. This is because there is too much liquid inside. you can see, that the pyramide is pushing up the power after the first 30 minutes. After this process it?s not necessary to refill saltwater anytime!

@all: the DV-Voltage is not very clean. There is coming some very strange sinus, and it changes all the time. You can watch even some sinus in the Power of the Pyramide.  4-6 times a day, teh pyramide gives approx. 12-15% more watts for 4-5 minutes without touching it. The same effect is to watch on the other side. 5-6 times a day the Watts decrease between 10-20%
I don?t have any idea, why !

I will give you the time diagrams on my website, and i hope for some measurements wordwide, to understand this effect on different places. (For this, i will please the constructors for test with syncronized watches.)

I tested mor than 40 types of Quarzsand, and i will give you right in time the best hints. The quarzsand is not that important, because our Tests ranged only between 15-17% Power.
I think, this is not very necessary, because if the people see, that it works, the resulted power is not the thema :-)

The most important thing in the whole construction is, not to fill the tubes with saltwater!

To much saltwater destructs the pipe, and there will be a output equal zero!!!

Give me a word to V14.
In this version, i will show you a easyer construction inside, and i will show you to increase the Power with very easy Tricks.
V12 gives now 19,22 Watts/H - tested  aproxx. 21 Hours.

So if anybody want?s to start with constructing, please wait a few days. you will save money with material. But if you want to reconstrucht V6, you are invited too...

Very nice greetings to our reader JEROME. I clap the Hands for you, and I am very happy about your results! There is only a small mistake in your Pictures. I tryed the antennas, but they are only for a good show  ;D
(We don?t want to make nice items here, the goal is to bring POWER!!)
I am really interested, why you don?t want to write in this Forum. You don?t like the peole here? They are some fools?

You are reading here, you are copying here, you get the infos from here, but you name this guys "fools"...
Sorry, i am here since a few days, i didn?t found any fool, and i will go ahead to post here, because the people are constructive here.

BUT YOU ARE DEFINITELY NOT CONSTRUCTIVE! Sorry for the bad words, but you are a simple copyer.... So you can put your result into your ass, because nobody will be interestet about your results in a few days. (we will have them for our own)
If you change your opinion, you are everytime welcome on my site, and i will say sorry for this hard words.

I?m only a little bit sad, because i had the same problem a few years ago. Lots of bad guys killed my lust to show anybody anything.
But this time, I?m a little older, a little bit more patient, and a little bit more rich *bad joke*

have a nice day outside, my interested friends.
thomas




Offline CLaNZeR

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Re: daily update...
« Reply #220 on: November 23, 2007, 01:14:10 PM »

PS. I?m a little sad, that some people wich are reading here didn?t spend any word to the community. Ther are some guys from Thailand and US tell me great storys, but noone will give here any sentence...
It?s not fair, to get informations from this Site, but stay silent, if some success appeares.
I will remember to this guys, and i am not shure, if i will invite you to my website  :-\


Hi Thomas

I am confused with this paragraph above. I cannot wait to replicate your Pyramid, but I thought you requested that no one write on your site or register on your site till it is live?

Looking forward to it going live :)

Cheers

Sean.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: daily update...
« Reply #220 on: November 23, 2007, 01:14:10 PM »
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Offline Koen1

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Re: First electrical power output from a Pyramid
« Reply #221 on: November 23, 2007, 01:17:12 PM »
 :o My, my, Thomas! Language, language! ;)

at least it is now clear what you think of people who want to copy but not discuss.
Sorry if this post isn't constructive. ;)

I'm still very much intrigued by the path of thought that has led you to this setup. :)
But I won't press for info. I assume that you will reveal how you came to this design if and when you feel like it.

In any case I find your commitment to the community replications commendable!
kind regards,
Koen

Offline pese

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Re: First electrical power output from a Pyramid
« Reply #222 on: November 23, 2007, 01:50:54 PM »
 Vielleicht kann man statt den Fragen zuviel oder zuwenig Salzwaser einfach herausfinden.
z.B. zu schreiben :10ml mit xx Gramm Salz gel?st.  (da man ohnehin mit "kalibrierter" Einwegspritze arbeitet ...
Vielleicht ist euch denkbar einfac xx Gramm Salz vorher in den trockenen Sand hineizumischen
und die Rohre -damit- zu bef?llen. (Nur so eine Idee) nachdem die erste Pyramide nach T.T.
gebaut ist. Sicher kann man DANN auch Erfahrungswerte miteinander austauschen)
G.P

Offline tao

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Re: daily update...
« Reply #223 on: November 23, 2007, 02:13:14 PM »

PS. I?m a little sad, that some people wich are reading here didn?t spend any word to the community. Ther are some guys from Thailand and US tell me great storys, but noone will give here any sentence...
It?s not fair, to get informations from this Site, but stay silent, if some success appeares.
I will remember to this guys, and i am not shure, if i will invite you to my website  :-\


Hi Thomas

I am confused with this paragraph above. I cannot wait to replicate your Pyramid, but I thought you requested that no one write on your site or register on your site till it is live?

Looking forward to it going live :)

Cheers

Sean.



Sean,

Thomas was just saying that he is getting emails from people showing their successes, but those same people won't post their results on overunity.com, not his site.

Offline CLaNZeR

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Re: daily update...
« Reply #224 on: November 23, 2007, 02:17:01 PM »

Sean,

Thomas was just saying that he is getting emails from people showing their successes, but those same people won't post their results on overunity.com, not his site.

Ah okay makes more sense.
 
Thanks for that Tao.

Cheers

Sean.

 

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