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Author Topic: First electrical power output from a Pyramid  (Read 549211 times)

duff

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Re: First electrical power output from a Pyramid
« Reply #345 on: December 07, 2007, 12:17:27 AM »
Marcel,

I like your paper model - nice!

georgemay

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Re: First electrical power output from a Pyramid
« Reply #346 on: December 07, 2007, 02:49:33 AM »
Well, I have my pyramid almost finished.  Capacitors are the only thing missing.  I guess over the weekend I will manage to make them.  My guts feeling is that Thomas was paid by 'big company' and no longer can support us.  Well, I am not mad or disappointed,  actually I am pretty happy that I have pyramid now and can do some real life testing.  Thanks to Tom I can continue what I left out more than thirty years ago.  Thank you Thomas and I wish you all the best in your endeavors.

Sincerely
George May

(http://www.propellers.us/tpp/DSCN1857.JPG)   (http://www.propellers.us/tpp/DSCN1859.JPG)

neptune

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Re: First electrical power output from a Pyramid
« Reply #347 on: December 07, 2007, 06:25:40 PM »
Today, I have cut out the plates for the main capacitor. Having thought about it,I may have to find some thicker copper, because these are less than 1mm, cut from an old scrap water tank.This capacitor is going to need a lot of precision to get it right,with only 1 mm spacing between plates. It is going to be hard to solder the wires to the plates in such a small space. A big soldering iron will be needed owing to the heat sink effect of the copper.I did consider using some form of mice dielectric,but want to keep as near to the original spec. as possible. If and when I get the job working, I will try substituting an air dielectric variable cap from a vintage radio. There is possibly some form of tuned circuit here, and a variable cap would allow optimisation of the resonant frequency.
           Thats it for now, may post later. Incidentally, if my frequent psycotech posts get on your nerves, tell me. Without feedback, I feel like a lone voice crying in the wilderness. 

vipond50

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Re: First electrical power output from a Pyramid
« Reply #348 on: December 07, 2007, 06:40:11 PM »
Hey Neptune
Great idea relating to the Variable cap. I have the converter hanging in the open to do some testing, seeing 0.266mv as of this typing. I have several variable caps i.e. 365pF and a dual gang 365pF. Hmmm.... may hook it up to see if buy adding in some possible tuning there is a E increase.
Just wanted to say thanks guy's and the work continues.

Regards
Bill

duff

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Re: First electrical power output from a Pyramid
« Reply #349 on: December 07, 2007, 06:51:00 PM »
I have the converter hanging in the open to do some testing, seeing 0.266mv as of this typing.

Bill,

Have you measured the capacitance of the converter.

If so, could you post that info...


-Duff

vipond50

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Re: First electrical power output from a Pyramid
« Reply #350 on: December 07, 2007, 07:05:24 PM »
Hi Duff
Ok
From the converter Cap to Earth Ground = 78pF
Across the converter (Capacitor to converter frame = 0.001248uF

Hope that's what u wanted
B.

neptune

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Re: First electrical power output from a Pyramid
« Reply #351 on: December 07, 2007, 07:07:43 PM »
Hi Vipond50, and everyone.Bill, the only problem I can forsee with a variable cap inside the pyramid, is that as yoy vary it, the centre of the overlapped area moves. For yor current experiments this may not matter, but inside the pyramid, the center of the effective cap must correspond with yje exact centre of the pyramid. It might be possible to build one where both sets of plates move to compensate.
                 Tell me bill, as you have built your converter, What diameter copper tube did you use, what sand? what is the source and diameter of your graphite rods? Are all joints soldered on tubes?
Is the tubes COMPLETELY filled with sand? Any output voltage?
Lots of questions, I know, but untill The Captain returns, Helping each other is all we have. 
Regards Ken

vipond50

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Re: First electrical power output from a Pyramid
« Reply #352 on: December 07, 2007, 07:38:57 PM »
Hi K.
Well i'll do my best to relay what i have hanging here
Tubes = 1/2" copper, type used in household plumbing.
Sand = Silica sand blasting sand 36 grit primarly and  down to fine dust.
Sand Level = I first tried it with just the bottoms section of the 1/2" copper tubes, just full enough so the carbon rods could set on the sand.
Did not work at all for any output. I then tore down the assembly and removed the rods . I felt compelled to have some sort of seperater between the bottom of the carbon rods and the tubing sides. So I installed a small piece of rubber hose over the bottom of the each rod so they could not short out against the copper tube.  I supported the each rod top by hand as i filled the space with the sand, then filled the tubes all the way up to the top of the Cu tubes, minus a 1/2". I left this space open so i could install the Rubber hose so the #22 wire could be attached.
Graphite/Carbon rods = 1/4" diameter manufactured by ArcAir (Carbon arc Gouging Rods)
Solder up = The bottom of the U or each side and the bottom are soldered. The top section is a push fit so i could remove to work with.
Wire connection to C rods = I used a small piece of rubber tubing and pushed this over the diameter of the carbon rod, then i inserted a small diameter probe to expand the rubber so i could insert the AGW # 22 solid copper hook wire. The wire is approx 4 inches long, I did this on both carbon rods.
Output Voltage = 0.226 mV, note: the E is climbing and falling about two points.

I used what i had on hand to see if I could get any responce out of the concept.

Sorry for not following the specific directions.

Bill
 

Hope this all makes sence ????

vipond50

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Re: First electrical power output from a Pyramid
« Reply #353 on: December 07, 2007, 08:01:26 PM »
Opps
Had a typo It is 293.5 mV not 0.293 mV

Sorry.... darn fingers anyway
B.

neptune

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Re: First electrical power output from a Pyramid
« Reply #354 on: December 07, 2007, 08:02:12 PM »
Hi Bill, and everyone. Many thanks for your prompt detailed response. The fact that you quote measurements in inches suggests you may be in USA? I am using 15mm[about1/2inch ] copper here. as 12mm is hard to find. I guess we all use what we can find in our first experiments. I share your worries about the graphite shorting to the copper., but note that Thomas Trawoeger specifically warns against anything that restrains the lower ends of the rods. Diagram seems to show whole of tubes full of sand.I  too have a "pull off" upper section for inspection etc. I am hoping to have whole job completed late next week. It is great if we all try slightly different things, but it is important to share ALL results, both positive and negative.This is the only path to success..Wishing you Watts of power, Ken

skywatcher

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Re: First electrical power output from a Pyramid
« Reply #355 on: December 07, 2007, 08:34:24 PM »
Had a typo It is 293.5 mV not 0.293 mV

Keep in mind that copper, graphite and electrolyte (the salt water) can form a galvanic element.

So any output which is measured is only valid if the voltage is significantly higher than the voltage which could be expected from a galvanic element, or if the voltage varies when the pyramid is rotated, the gypsum plates removed, etc.

I will not continue working on the project until Thomas Trawoeger reappears and distributes the promised infos, or someone else comes up with a working prototype. Without someone who can competently answer questions i don't see a significant chance to get the thing running.  :(

BTW i don't know if this chance ever existed. We don't have any proof that there are really any working prototypes.   ::)

neptune

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Re: First electrical power output from a Pyramid
« Reply #356 on: December 07, 2007, 09:30:35 PM »
Skywatcher, I agree with all you say about the galvanic element, or "cell". I also agree that we have no proof that a working prototype Exists. But , what if the phenomenon is genuine and that for the time being,Thomas has gone to ground. It is quite possible that powerful forces want this buried. If everyone sits on the fence and waits, nothing will happen. I will carry on because, the alternative is to sit and watch TV and drink beer. One lesson here is that the very best descriptions in words and pictures can be ambiguous. If our questions could be answered things would be much better. The disappearance of Tinu was another blow. I posted help for him, but he did not even acknowledge it. I just Hope Thomas returns nd we all see a happy Christmas

georgemay

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Re: First electrical power output from a Pyramid
« Reply #357 on: December 07, 2007, 10:31:34 PM »
Hi Neptune,
Here is the link to flat plate capacitor calculator.
http://www.deepfriedneon.com/tesla_f_calccap.html
You can substitute air with other dielectric. 
George.

vipond50

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Re: First electrical power output from a Pyramid
« Reply #358 on: December 07, 2007, 10:49:49 PM »
Great link Thanks
So the spec for the air cap is10 plates @ 70mm (2.7559") X 35mm(1.3779527") with a 1mm spacing = 0.000195uF or 195 pF

Right?
Interesting
Bill

neptune

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Re: First electrical power output from a Pyramid
« Reply #359 on: December 07, 2007, 11:06:44 PM »
Thanks for replies. I am wondering why a standard off the shelf component was not used, like wise output cap. Special properties of copper? Possible need for plates to vibrate.??? Seems strange he didn't just buy a cap. More questions than answers.