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Author Topic: WHY WON'T IT WORK!  (Read 17811 times)

Charlie_V

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Re: WHY WON'T IT WORK!
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2009, 02:18:47 PM »
Nothing is impossible!  Sounds pretty interesting to me, let me know how further testing holds up.

petersone

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Re: WHY WON'T IT WORK!
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2009, 03:25:07 PM »
@ Charlie,that's a 10% success rate!! which is about 10% better than me,so things for me can only improve!!
@ Lumen,look forward to your results
@All, doing some work on a mag.motor that will also give some juice,early tests look good,sounds to good to be true,so probably is!!
Good luck all.
peter

Charlie_V

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Re: WHY WON'T IT WORK!
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2009, 04:56:07 AM »
Hi guys.  I wanted to show you some of the waveforms of my setup.  Unfortunately, I can't disclose the setup yet.  Yea I know, I know, what good is it then.  Well Lumen was able to talk about his waveform and after taking this data today, I find it interesting that our waveforms look very similar but the setups are different.  Could there be two ways to skin a cat?

The first picture shows a conventional waveform where a permanent magnet (single magnet -aka two poles) is rotated a half rotation.  You can see the first half rotation (from south pole to north) produces a downward peak.  The second rotation (from north back to south) generates a positive peak.  This is pretty typical. 

The next picture shows my setup's waveform.  Each pulse is again a half rotation.  Notice how it produces twice the frequency.  Also, the polarity of the magnets do not matter.  Rotating from south to north produces the same waveform as rotating north to south.  This sort of looks like Lumen's waveform but more symmetrical - granted Lumen was hand drawing his so I won't pick too much haha ;)

The last picture is where I removed the essential components from my setup.  You will notice that the voltage generated in my coil goes to pretty much zero.  The small remaining bumps that you see could be further reduced with better balancing (by this I mean my coil was not uniformly wound).  But I believe that these bumps are the only things that will contribute to back EMF in the setup.  The "essential components" basically cause a secondary reaction that the coil sees and produces voltage in response - which is independent of the rotating magnet, yet intricately connected - perhaps action without reaction (one can only dream of course haha). 

Right now I'm working on improving the voltage output and investigating more thoroughly how back emf sets up in this system (Lenz's law always applies, but whether or not the prime mover must ALWAYS feel the Lenz's force is what I want to question).  You'll notice, if you can see the readings on the scope, that the conventional device yields much higher voltages (comparatively both waveforms were produced at the same rotational speed).  The conventional method yields ~3 times more voltage output. I hope better design can improve this but I fear it will never be as strong.  HOWEVER, if I can show that my system does not suffer from Lenz forces, then slightly lower voltage magnitudes won't matter (I'll just need a bigger setup). 

lumen

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Re: WHY WON'T IT WORK!
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2009, 06:33:57 PM »

At one point I was thinking of using a moving magnet to bend the field of a stationary magnet that would then induce a voltage without load to the moving magnet.

In the end though, it all boiled down to the fact that any time a field changes intensity through a coil, the coil will resist the change if there was any load on the coil.

The only question is whether the resistance, (lenz's law) is opposing or assisting the primary mover.
I think that is the answer we all are looking for.



Charlie_V

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Re: WHY WON'T IT WORK!
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2009, 08:02:09 PM »
 
Quote
he only question is whether the resistance, (lenz's law) is opposing or assisting the primary mover.

Or if the Lenz force does nothing.  Nothing is good right?

petersone

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Re: WHY WON'T IT WORK!
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2009, 09:11:10 PM »
Hi all,it seems impossible to get Mr Lenz to play on our team,and not the opposition,or to give up playing all together!!
peter

TechStuf

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Re: WHY WON'T IT WORK!
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2009, 10:12:49 PM »
Not at all....most have just been peering through the wrong 'lenz' is all....

Consider:

Quote
Curiously enough, shortly after Faraday's initial experiments with a primitive version of the induction dynamo he discovered that the same voltage could be induced if the magnetic field pieces were affixed directly to the rotor, but that no voltage at all would be induced if the field pieces were rotated while the conductive disk was held stationary! He logically inferred that even if the field pieces were rotating, their magnetic fields must be stationary, and that the type of uniform magnetic field produced by a cylindrical magnet must therefore be a property of space itself (or perhaps more accurately, space-time) and was independent of the magnetic material which serves to create the field. [This quality or effect is an oddity which to this day has no truly satisfactory explanation, though a very good paper from the University of Maryland (Dept. of Physics; Berg & Alley, 2005) strongly suggests the real explanation may lie within the purview of Special Relativity: see www.physics.umd.edu/ . . . q218unipolar.pdf.] - Source: Stardrivedevice.com

http://www.physics.umd.edu/lecdem/outreach/QOTW/arch11/q218unipolar.pdf

Far too few common sense progressional experiments are being done by garden variety researchers like ourselves, in order to gain a wide and stable foundation for discovery.  Starting near the middle or end of another's quest, often proves to be critically flawed beginning for one's own.

So much remains largely unknown about even the basic dynamics of energy systems that there is much room for discovery still....

The biggest and brightest answers all too often remain hidden before the beginning.  Where Simplicity reigns.


TS

lumen

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Re: WHY WON'T IT WORK!
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2009, 11:34:15 PM »

@ TechStuf,  I did some testing on unipolar generators and the main problem is that lenz's law still applies! That's why you can make a unipolar motor which is the same as a unipolar generator in reverse. If lenz's law did not apply the unipolar motor would not run.

I also believe if there is no lenz force generated then no work was done either. The trick is to get the force to go the same direction as the working force and not opposite it. In effect, the more work that gets done, the less work it takes.
Or like I say, the inverse lenz generator. ( If that could be real! )


TechStuf

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Re: WHY WON'T IT WORK!
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2009, 12:07:39 AM »

The spirit of the law applies....Look at the alnico rod demonstration closely.  I don't wish to abrogate 'lenz's law'....no, instead I wish to see it applied to it's fullest extent.  Or should I simply say, closer to it's fullest extent.  Well before reaching such, nature's perpetual wheelwork will turn and give us it's glistening back for someone to try and throw a saddle on.

Magnets make great levers.  And their 'magical arms' are long indeed.


TS

winsonali

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Re: WHY WON'T IT WORK!
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2009, 05:14:05 AM »
i was going through this thread and have developed this understanding its a problem of watching number 6 or 9 in opposite directions 

Most of the unipole generator works on this equation

The total electric potential developed is then determined by integrating this electric field along a radius from the center of the magnet (r = 0) to the outside radius R of the magnet:
E' = r=0R∫ v B dr = ω B R22 ,
where ω is the angular velocity of the magnet, and the linear velocity of a point in the magnet is:
v = ω x r.

the point to notice is we take the potential difference at points where we experience different magnetic poles in this case it will be AC  and it we take potential difference at center of the magnet and one end either north facing or south facing it will generate pure DC

i will make a diagram and small test kit you will see that you can create high current at low voltages both AC and DC and i will explain how it works

faraday's laws do not apply in this case , mechanical power directly transfer to electrically energy. In this case only lose of energy is heat due to friction.

system is a failure due to its non workable production just like Stirling engine (external combustion vs internal combustion)
remember first external engine was developed having great heat lose its developed form with efficiency is internal combustion engine like wise HPO is the basic mechanism of electric city generation its advance version is coil based rotary generators
   
lenz force is nothing but the residual hysteresis magnetic field of the core material improvement in material will enhance the efficiency  of generator.

if any body is interested then i will make diagram of system that can generate direct DC current using HPO 

innovation_station

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Re: WHY WON'T IT WORK!
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2009, 05:44:44 AM »
i would like you to look into teslas unipolar fuel less generator

if your a serious builder ..

i solved this unit some time ago ...

i fully understand how i can make this spit fire ...  :D ;)

thats not a joke !

william

it is based on the golden spiral  :)

what is HPO i get the hp but the o