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Author Topic: Lorentz force VS Centrifugal force. WM2D simulation show overunity of infinity.  (Read 11458 times)

Offline broli

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When I went to sleep last night in my bed I was thinking of a rotating charge in uniform B field. What I was then looking at was the way the Lorentz force acts on this charge. The illustration below shows a charged mass being rotated in a magnetic field pointing inside the screen and the resultant Lorentz force. As you can see the force is radially inwards.

http://www.physics.sjsu.edu/becker/physics51/images/28_13A_Orbit_in_B_field.jpg

Now here comes the interesting part. What if we consider the centrifugal force of the particle. Which is F=m*v^2/r. Let's use another "what if" and state that the centrifugal force will win from the Lorentz force at all times. Oke...but what does this mean???

Essentially it means when rotating the charged mass it will make a spiral like path outwards. This is the same question as "what happens if you rotate a bowling ball attached to a rope around and the rope starts to slip from your hands gradually. Essentially the ball will increase its radius but still spiral around. Your hands in this case are the Lorentz force, since the centrifugal force is too high for the grip it will spiral outwards.

This is where the fun begins. Because if it spirals outwards it means it's moving outwards in the magnetic field. Again the the Lorentz force will apply to this radially moving charged mass. The shocking part is that it will apply TANGENTIALLY to the spiraling motion AIDING IT. But if it aids it it means the speed will increase but if the speed increases it means the centrifugal force increases but if the centrifugal force increases it will spiral even faster out but if it spirals even faster out the TANGENTIAL force will increase even more...basically you'll have a runaway effect each feeding the next thing. So essentially everything will increase exponentially until it explodes.

I have a wm2d simulation of this. I'll post it in a moment until I double and tripled check everything. I might also make more elaborate presentations. To help on the visual side.

But for now this can make some brains work.

Wm2d file uploaded. Please ask all the questions in the world I'll be glad to clarify it.

Left wheel is with magnetic field and all Lorentz forces. Right wheel is no magnetism at all, only centrifugal force. Both are given the same energy input by a torque which gets shut off after a few seconds. Left one behaves very similar to right one for a moment BUT then it explodes exponentially.While right one just slows down to a halt.


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Offline cameron sydenham

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wow, I wonder if you have read any of my posts on the motor we have built.

Offline mindsweeper

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Are you working in a vacuum broli?

Air resistance is set to none. perhaps that does not matter ?

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Offline broli

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wow, I wonder if you have read any of my posts on the motor we have built.

Please link because I haven't.

Are you working in a vacuum broli?

Air resistance is set to none. perhaps that does not matter ?

Yes I am. Air resistance shouldn't matter. This is only to demonstrate the exponential runaway effect.


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Offline broli

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I just read that thread but it doesn't seem like you have revealed anything. I've noticed you patented it so that might be the reason.

Offline cameron sydenham

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all I have tried to tell people is that we have come up with a way to take the direction and the outward affect that Cf has on a mass and "turn it" into the direction of the rotation.
by doing this, you end up with a more efficient motor, that utilizes the affects of Cf as a propelling factor, not an inhibiting factor. less  than 746 watts per HP.
Cameron

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Offline broli

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Won't this also cause a runaway effect? As the CF is increased, the torque gets increased this in turns increases the RPM which increases the CF and closes the loop. The motor would speed up very fast. Is there a reason why you haven't disclosed?

Offline cameron sydenham

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in the beginning when we were evaluating our project we kind of thought that, but further study revealed that you need the orbital action to create the outward affect,( which we "turn" and use)  thus creating the additional torque, but the additional "power" wont propell the motors any faster, it only gives them the affect that they weigh more than they do, giving you the extra torque as leverage.  (lots of info in this post I have never reveled).  but, no electricity to the motors, they will stop.
Cameron

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Offline gravityblock

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It's similar to NASA using a planet to slingshot the space shuttle into space in order to gain speed. I believe they know more than what they're letting us to know. NASA is just a cover up for what they're really doing out of public sight and from public knowledge.

The time has come for us to take the blindfolds off that they have put on us. The Cabal and the elite are losing their grip, they will soon no longer be in the loop, but they will be fighting every step of the way.

Offline broli

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Yeah I can feel the time is right.

Now I need to figure out how to use this concept in a practical way instead of let the mass fly off in to the abyss  ;D.

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Offline gravityblock

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Won't this also cause a runaway effect? As the CF is increased, the torque gets increased this in turns increases the RPM which increases the CF and closes the loop. The motor would speed up very fast. Is there a reason why you haven't disclosed?

I believe this is the answer to the runaway affect:  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6843.msg158643#msg158643

It basically says if you have 100 units of energy available in the system at any given time, then you can't get more than 100 units of energy out at any given time (Over Unity and conversion of energy in the system). If you did get more out than in (Over-Over Unity), then you would be creating and converting energy which breaks many laws of physics.

Offline broli

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That's a confusing view you have there my friend. I'm a simpleton and like to keep it simple. There are many semantic discussions on this forum that lead to nowhere. I'd rather want to spread this concept so people can think of better and newer things.

Btw, the centrifugal force in cyclotrons is so small it has no visible effect. Take F_cf=m_e*v^2/r where m_e is the mass of the electron at about 10^-32 kg. The force can be ignored in this case and we see a nice circular path.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2009, 01:03:48 AM by broli »

Offline gravityblock

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@ broli:

Then I will simplify it:

Just because you put more fuel into your car doesn't mean your car will run faster, it only means it will run longer. With over unity, you can have it run forever on the same amount of fuel, but it still won't run any faster. Want it to run faster, then build a bigger and better engine or motor.  You can't get more out of the system that what is available in the system.

Offline broli

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@ broli:

Then I will simplify it:

You can't get more out of the system that what is available in the system. Just because you put more fuel into your car doesn't mean your car will run faster, it only means it will run longer. With over unity, you can have it run forever on the same amount of fuel, but it still won't run any faster. Want it to run faster, then build a bigger and better engine or motor.

Then I'll go for option 3.

 

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