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## Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: Magnon on February 21, 2009, 04:16:08 PM

Title: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Magnon on February 21, 2009, 04:16:08 PM
Hi,

This new topic is started to discuss about acoustomagnetic effect in a TPU and SEG like devices.

There is a way to produce a rotating polarization ( helicons ) microwaves when a travelling acoustic pulse with a wavelenght equal to frequency of  electron spin precession in a applied magnetic field are in 90 degree angle with each other, this is called as magnetoacoustic effect. This is what happens in a TPU and SEG like devices.
The created microwave radiation is produced in a direction of applied magnetic field, and can be amplified by reflecting the signal back ( interference ) like MASER.
The microwave frequency is the reason that the one turn collector coil can be used.
In a case of TPU the magnetic field is first created in a direction h in a toroid coil.
The toroid coil is made of elastic composite material like a urethane foam.  This elastic composite material consists of magnetostrictive and paramagnetic powder like nickel and aluminium.
We can see this same phenomena with a SEG, the difference with a TPU is that the SEG uses deformation of material to produce an acoustic wave to travel around the stator, and uses permanent composite magnets for electron spin precession. Radial E-field must also be applied, with SEG this happens when the magnetic fields repel, in a case of TPU you must add a HV radial E-field.

There is a Excel file attach, that you can play with and see how acoustic and ESR frequensies are tuned in a TPU.

--Magnon

Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: BEP on February 21, 2009, 09:35:01 PM
Any chance you could upload a version readable by something besides Excel 2007?
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Magnon on February 21, 2009, 10:00:52 PM
Any chance you could upload a version readable by something besides Excel 2007?

Here is the Excel 97-2003  version.

--Magnon
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Magnon on February 21, 2009, 10:33:44 PM

--Magnon
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: tsl on February 21, 2009, 11:31:30 PM

--Magnon
Hey thanks, i have to digest it completely first ,but i would appreciate some more papers also before i could talk about it.
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: giantkiller on February 22, 2009, 01:29:22 AM
Precession into inductance

or

High frequency discharge into capacitance. Slow draw through load.E. Timothy Trapp, Muller, Bedini, or spark gap.

or both models into 1 as in Hubbard.

Spank the capacitor and it absorbs it. Spank the inductor and it rings.

Giantkiller.
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: tsl on February 23, 2009, 12:51:01 AM
I've found something really interesting about the frequencies.See it for yourself
"The magnetoacoustic emission is a consequence of the existence of magnetic domains in ferromagnetic samples. This effect is driven by an alternating magnetic field, which engages the increase or decrease of the favoured magnetic domains and thereby the domain wall movement. In the standing wave case, the domain wall motion is correlated with the displacements of portions of the elastic ferromagnetic medium from the elastic standing wave in the sample. In this case, the MAE effect becomes maximum, the domain walls perform a forced oscillation, and we can obtain information about the evolution of the magnetic domains in the sample by the analysis of the resonance curve. Certainly, in the case of standing wave method, the maximum effect is obtained for the natural frequencies of the sample. In the sample, in the case of longitudinal wave, on both sides of the nodes, the medium is subject of alternative compressions and dilatations, such as the interaction between the magnetic wall motion and the elastic wave will have the maximum effect. By comparing the effect for natural frequencies of the sample, for a free behavior, the maximum effect is obtained for the first eigenfrequency of the ferromagnetic rod. This can be explained by the fact that in this case, in the whole sample, the wave oscillations and the magnetic wall motion are in phase. For the second natural frequency, with an node at the middle of the bar , only for half of the sample the two oscillations are in phase. This explain why the effect is approximately fifty percent lower as the effect for the first natural frequency, and the analogism can be extended to the next natural frequencies. Reciprocal, by placing the sample in a constant magnetic field, and transmitting an ultrasonic wave into the sample at the locations, where the standing wave stress is maximum, a high frequency magnetic field is generated by the reciprocal effect of magnetostriction [9].Due to the fact that the magnetoacoustic effect is very sensitive to the internal stress or to magnetic modifications, this method can be used in the nondestructive evaluation of ferromagnetic materials."

I would love to see how the simplest test setup  for a tpu using this effect would look like.
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Magnon on February 23, 2009, 05:53:31 PM
I've found something really interesting about the frequencies.See it for yourself
"The magnetoacoustic emission is a consequence of the existence of magnetic domains in ferromagnetic samples. This effect is driven by an alternating magnetic field, which engages the increase or decrease of the favoured magnetic domains and thereby the domain wall movement. In the standing wave case, the domain wall motion is correlated with the displacements of portions of the elastic ferromagnetic medium from the elastic standing wave in the sample. In this case, the MAE effect becomes maximum, the domain walls perform a forced oscillation, and we can obtain information about the evolution of the magnetic domains in the sample by the analysis of the resonance curve. Certainly, in the case of standing wave method, the maximum effect is obtained for the natural frequencies of the sample. In the sample, in the case of longitudinal wave, on both sides of the nodes, the medium is subject of alternative compressions and dilatations, such as the interaction between the magnetic wall motion and the elastic wave will have the maximum effect. By comparing the effect for natural frequencies of the sample, for a free behavior, the maximum effect is obtained for the first eigenfrequency of the ferromagnetic rod. This can be explained by the fact that in this case, in the whole sample, the wave oscillations and the magnetic wall motion are in phase. For the second natural frequency, with an node at the middle of the bar , only for half of the sample the two oscillations are in phase. This explain why the effect is approximately fifty percent lower as the effect for the first natural frequency, and the analogism can be extended to the next natural frequencies. Reciprocal, by placing the sample in a constant magnetic field, and transmitting an ultrasonic wave into the sample at the locations, where the standing wave stress is maximum, a high frequency magnetic field is generated by the reciprocal effect of magnetostriction [9].Due to the fact that the magnetoacoustic effect is very sensitive to the internal stress or to magnetic modifications, this method can be used in the nondestructive evaluation of ferromagnetic materials."

I would love to see how the simplest test setup  for a tpu using this effect would look like.

The goal is to create coherent microwave radiation from constant magnetic field by wobbling free or unpaired ( ESR ) charged electrons by an acoustic pulse.
This coherent microwave radiation can be amplified with interferece, by reflecting part of the microwave signal back in a direction h in a toroid core. This alone creates power for one turn collector coil, but there is also an other phenomena involved, created nested microwave patterns, that exist at manytimes of distances r ( tpu core radius ). Those nested em patterns around are able to collect and suck charges and other fields around. Prime number of waves are used to create a stable field, without subharmonics.

TPU core composite material consists of three material:

Ferromagnetic and magnetostrictice particles to create a magnetic field and magnetostrictive effect for ultrasound. Nickel powder is used here.

Aluminium particles for charge collection and for paramagnetic properties.

Ferrite particles for magnetic field and for ESR, ferrite has a low conductivity and therefore low eddy current loss.

Elastic and insulating base material, where powders are mixed with, urethane foam can be used here.
Urethane foam has a sound speed around 1500 m/s.

In a core a longitudinal acoustic pulse is launched by vertical wound coil around the core, that is pulsed with a given acoustic freguency.

The needed h direction magnetic field is created by horizontal coil. Only low field strenght is needed, around 0.22T

Collector coil is also horizontal.

Radial HV E-field is created by one turn horizontal coil in a midde of the core.

I ask those who are interested about subject to join to replication project, this time we know what we are looking for and the device is based to known facts.

--Magnon

Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Magnon on February 24, 2009, 06:12:37 PM
You can also use electrostriction for acoustic wave generation, the setup is the same, but use AC high voltage. Electric potential difference of 10 kV / cm causes 0.1% deformation  ( strain ) in a urethane foam.
Advantage with a electrostriction is that the magnetic field can be stable all the time.
Use ferrite powder with permeability 2000, here is the list of manufacturers,

http://www.inductors.pl/polski/pm.php?lang=en

Adjust the magnetic field strenght in a core with a adjustable DC source, that is connected to horizontal coil, that exists around the core. If you have a constant magnetic field, it means that the ESR spectrum is very narrow but it gives coherent microwave radiation, when wobbled with a acoustic wave with a same wavelenght.

-- Magnon
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: TechStuf on February 24, 2009, 08:44:58 PM

You might benefit by contacting Mark Snoswell as he seems to be trucking down the same road.  If you find success, be prepared however,  I'm quite positive that TPTB are well equipped to monitor the 'airwaves' for the calling card excitedly being waved by a successful magnetic OU device.

TS
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Magnon on February 24, 2009, 09:23:40 PM

You might benefit by contacting Mark Snoswell as he seems to be trucking down the same road.  If you find success, be prepared however,  I'm quite positive that TPTB are well equipped to monitor the 'airwaves' for the calling card excitedly being waved by a successful magnetic OU device.

TS

Mark Snoswell is welcome to join this discussion.

--Magnon
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: TechStuf on February 24, 2009, 11:08:23 PM

Then, I take it you know the man....

TS
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: hartiberlin on February 24, 2009, 11:59:21 PM
I got a message, that these Excel files might be infected with a Trojan horse ?

Could somebody please check into this and let me know by private email ?

Many thanks.

===============

There was recently and advisory sent out for infected excel spread sheets, if you recently opened an excel spreadsheet on your pc, particularly the one most recently uploaded in a thread about acoustic magnetodynamics (something or other) ..it contained macro's which my version of open Office decided weren't worth running, then you may have gotten a trojan horse.

the files I saw were on this thread:  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6879.0  this is a point entry vulnerability.  The thread was started by a newbie.  Looks suspicious.

http://www.infoworld.com/article/09/02/24/Attackers_targeting_unpatched_vulnerability_in_Excel_2007_1.html
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: MarkSnoswell on February 25, 2009, 12:53:39 PM
Hi Magnon -- interested to know where you got some of your ideas? ...

Rods made of Ferrite + Al + Ni powder in an epoxy matrix are reported to emit microwaves in an OU device that generated 1-6KW power -- I am not at liberty to say more here. BEP will know what I am talking about.

You can also go the other way -- with a single frequency input (100 Khz range) to a simple MA (Magnetoacoustic) device you can get arbitrary low frequency output. This is predicted in theory and I have observed it in ferrite rods -- :) - but the effect has an equivalent Q of 100,000 - 1,000,000 so unless you have very good equipment and you know exactly what to look for you will never chance upon the effect. You may be able to reverse this to a degree - I have yet to do this.

I have MA effects working in steel rods as well - this is far harder than generating MA effects in ferrite rods (which is hard enough).

I already had Nataliya's paper regarding local flattening of fermi surfaces -- and it is interesting.
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Magnon on February 25, 2009, 04:17:34 PM
I got a message, that these Excel files might be infected with a Trojan horse ?

Could somebody please check into this and let me know by private email ?

Many thanks.

===============

There was recently and advisory sent out for infected excel spread sheets, if you recently opened an excel spreadsheet on your pc, particularly the one most recently uploaded in a thread about acoustic magnetodynamics (something or other) ..it contained macro's which my version of open Office decided weren't worth running, then you may have gotten a trojan horse.

the files I saw were on this thread:  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6879.0  this is a point entry vulnerability.  The thread was started by a newbie.  Looks suspicious.

http://www.infoworld.com/article/09/02/24/Attackers_targeting_unpatched_vulnerability_in_Excel_2007_1.html

If you mean Phonon calculator Excel file, it is an open file for share and edit, the macro code is visible and contains no Trojan horses.. it can be that it does not run with a Open office.

--Magnon
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Magnon on February 25, 2009, 04:46:56 PM
Hi Magnon -- interested to know where you got some of your ideas? ...

Rods made of Ferrite + Al + Ni powder in an epoxy matrix are reported to emit microwaves in an OU device that generated 1-6KW power -- I am not at liberty to say more here. BEP will know what I am talking about.

You can also go the other way -- with a single frequency input (100 Khz range) to a simple MA (Magnetoacoustic) device you can get arbitrary low frequency output. This is predicted in theory and I have observed it in ferrite rods -- :) - but the effect has an equivalent Q of 100,000 - 1,000,000 so unless you have very good equipment and you know exactly what to look for you will never chance upon the effect. You may be able to reverse this to a degree - I have yet to do this.

I have MA effects working in steel rods as well - this is far harder than generating MA effects in ferrite rods (which is hard enough).

I already had Nataliya's paper regarding local flattening of fermi surfaces -- and it is interesting.

Good to see you here Mark.

I think that it is better to take this phenomena into public discussion.
As you know, we have been discussed about subject in a closed group and with direct e-mail.

It was some years ago, when i was writing, also in this group about the phenomena how spin flip / electron spin precession wobbling with a phonon pulse causes coherent microwave radiation emission.
It is a good thing that you have observed this phenomena also in practice.
But the generated microwave radiation is only a part of the phenomena, you have to tune the system so that it creates nested, cylindrical magnetic fields around. This leads to system, that is able to suck charges and fields around, and is the source of power.
The reason why elastic composite material is used , is that this way you have a constant magnetic field area around every single small paramagnetic particle to produce coherent microwaves, and no eddy currents that can easily destroy the effect as it happens with a conductive, large metal pieces

--Magnon
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Paul-R on February 25, 2009, 05:14:37 PM
Any chance you could upload a version readable by something besides Excel 2007?
it should be possible to save the spreadsheet as a doc file (under "Save as" possibly)
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: BEP on February 25, 2009, 06:25:31 PM
@Magnon already attached a 97-2003 version earlier. Thanks.
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: BEP on February 25, 2009, 06:28:16 PM
@Magnon

So you still think one result may be stimulated emission as in MASER?
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Magnon on February 25, 2009, 07:10:35 PM
@Magnon

So you still think one result may be stimulated emission as in MASER?

I mean amplification with interference, when the generated coherent microwave frequency is reflected back in between two half reflecting mirrors. There is rotating polarization, helicon mode microwaves, because the origin for the radiation is coming from electron spin axis precession.
The acoustic wave is a travelling type standing wave, this leads to system, where the transmit place changes on TPU:s circumference, it looks like slowly rotating cylindrical shape pattern.

--Magnon
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: TechStuf on February 25, 2009, 10:35:43 PM
Quote
The acoustic wave is a travelling type standing wave

Better than I got.  :-[

All I've been able to achieve thus far, are the stationary type sitting waves.

8)

TS
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: BEP on February 26, 2009, 04:49:18 AM
Ok. We all know a not-standing-standing wave is a misnomer. The same for just 'standing wave'. If it is standing then it isn't a wave. Most use the term to describe the crossing of a source wave and its reflection.
Sorry, what is being discussed are compression waves.

I won't partake in a futher discussion of such magnetic waves not existing. You can take that up with builders of cyclotrons, fluorescent lights, and waveguides. No, plasma is not required. All the wave needs is a contained path.

BEP
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: EMdevices on February 26, 2009, 04:58:31 AM
I like those Q values  Mark ,  magnetostriction effects (or magnetoacoustic)  are wonderful !

As we know,  bandwidth  is  equal to  F/Q,  where F is the center frequency,  so if you have a high Q value, then your bandwidth will be very very small, which means,  TUNE VERY SLOWLY AND FINE INCREMENTS or you'll miss the effect.   Also we note as F goes down the bandwidth decreases for a given Q value,   so when we start talking about   high Q and low frequencies like SM mentions,  we're talking about phenomena that can be easily missed in a lab setting.

EM
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: MarkSnoswell on February 26, 2009, 05:20:25 AM
LOL -- yea -- in my iron rods the Qs are 7,000 - 13,000 ... let me explain further:

you are looking for a resonant peak at 87,000 Hz -- it's only got a 6.5 HZ 1/2 height bandwidth... you have to have the magnetic bias just right .. your magnetic bias must not restrict the motion of the ends of the rod so you cant just stick magnets on...

That paints a picture of how incredibly hard it is to find the effect -- but once you do its very easy to reproduce.

I have no doubt that the TPU style of devices are also very difficult to tune in their own way -- and then with experience it becomes easy to reproduce.

Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: braden on February 26, 2009, 09:14:20 AM
This may be of interest
http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?KEY=04%2F64223.041028&IA=US2004000013&DISPLAY=STATUS
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: zerotensor on February 26, 2009, 04:48:22 PM
Yes! I think you guys are on the right track.  I suspect that an iron wire pumped by an energized magnetic field coil at one end will exhibit a potential difference across its length arising from the induced magneto-kinetic acoustic wave in the wire.  A coil at the far end can act as a pickup.   This concept borrows partly from the ancient information storage scheme known as, "delay line memory".  Here's a snippet for anyone unfamiliar with the idea;

from, http://www.technikum29.de/en/computer/storage-media:

Quote
Another kind of "delay line" memory is the so called magnetostrictive memory. This technique is based on the idea of the propagation of ultrasonic waves through a thin wire. The information to be stored is fed into a long wire by the effect of magnetostricion (the wire contracts when exposed to a strong magnetic field â€“ this in turn yields an acoustic wave traveling across the wire). A bit pattern created by this effect travels along the wire to its end where the information is picked up by a piezo electric element. The output of this pickup will be amplified and fed back into the beginning of the wire loop.

I can imagine a model TPU wherein electrical pulses surf on the ultrasonic waves inside the wire, and are amplified by feedback.
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: TechStuf on February 26, 2009, 06:26:25 PM

Quote
Yes! I think you guys are on the right track.  I suspect that an iron wire pumped by an energized magnetic field coil at one end will exhibit a potential difference across its length arising from the induced magneto-kinetic acoustic wave in the wire.  A coil at the far end can act as a pickup.   This concept borrows partly from the ancient information storage scheme known as, "delay line memory".  Here's a snippet for anyone unfamiliar with the idea;

from, http://www.technikum29.de/en/computer/storage-media:

Yeah, that URL sure blows a gaping hole in the "Alien Back Engineering theory".

LOL

TS

Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: giantkiller on February 26, 2009, 06:37:03 PM
This may be of interest
http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?KEY=04%2F64223.041028&IA=US2004000013&DISPLAY=STATUS

I see this description fitting somewhat closely to the Stan Deyo coil.
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Magnon on February 26, 2009, 09:48:22 PM
Ok. We all know a not-standing-standing wave is a misnomer. The same for just 'standing wave'. If it is standing then it isn't a wave. Most use the term to describe the crossing of a source wave and its reflection.
Sorry, what is being discussed are compression waves.

I won't partake in a futher discussion of such magnetic waves not existing. You can take that up with builders of cyclotrons, fluorescent lights, and waveguides. No, plasma is not required. All the wave needs is a contained path.

BEP

Perhaps resonance is a better word here.

--Magnon
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Magnon on February 26, 2009, 09:58:59 PM
I like those Q values  Mark ,  magnetostriction effects (or magnetoacoustic)  are wonderful !

As we know,  bandwidth  is  equal to  F/Q,  where F is the center frequency,  so if you have a high Q value, then your bandwidth will be very very small, which means,  TUNE VERY SLOWLY AND FINE INCREMENTS or you'll miss the effect.   Also we note as F goes down the bandwidth decreases for a given Q value,   so when we start talking about   high Q and low frequencies like SM mentions,  we're talking about phenomena that can be easily missed in a lab setting.

EM

Coherent microwave radiation means that you must have  a very high Q.
You can use phonon calculator Excel file to demonstrate the electron spin precession frequency sensitivity to external magnetic field change, see how the frequency changes with given magnetic field.
The bandwidth can be only a few Hz.

--Magnon
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: MarkSnoswell on February 26, 2009, 11:47:20 PM
Magnon - do you have a recommendation for Al, Ni and Ferrite powders to use?
I am set up for making composites and can fit this into my scheduled research program.
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Magnon on February 27, 2009, 05:59:46 PM
Magnon - do you have a recommendation for Al, Ni and Ferrite powders to use?
I am set up for making composites and can fit this into my scheduled research program.

As you know, a very stable ( homogeneous ) magnetic field is needed to have a high Q.
Use very fine powder, that has very small grain size. When a small paramagnetic particel is in a stable magnetic field, there is not much eddy currents that can easily destroys this weak microwave emission from wobbled electron precession.
Al and ferrite is needed, but instead of Ni you can use some other magnetostrictive material. The highest known magnetostictive constant you can have with Terfenol-D.
If you use electrostriction for acoustic wave generation, you can use lead magnesuim niobate, that has a high electrostriction constant.
Or you can use ultrasonic transducer for acoustic wave input, like echosounder. For example 50 kHz and 200 kHz units are available, just find the right core dimensions that match with a frequency with a phonon calculator.
Instead of urethane or epoxy core base material, you can use some other dielectric and elastic material that has a good sound conductivity, like silicone rubber. You have to know / measure the sound speed in a core material, do a sample and measure how long time it takes for acoustic wave to travel through the sample. Because of the sound absorbtion in a electron-phonon coupling, the speed of sound is slightly decreased, that you must correct in a calculation.

--Magnon
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: TechStuf on February 27, 2009, 06:05:08 PM

lol

TS
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Magnon on February 27, 2009, 06:18:07 PM
With the SEG original magnets, there was a composite material used also, the powders was mixed with a dielectric thermoplastic. See the analysis about the materials.

http://oriharu.net/eseg1.htm

--Magnon

Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Magnon on February 27, 2009, 07:08:26 PM
@Mark,

You may find some interestig reading from here,

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1952570

http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0038-5670/35/2/R03

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/maik/10637834/1999/00000041/00000002/00001228

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=15884139

http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0038-5670/19/6/R01

http://ulysses.phys.wvu.edu/~escime/miniconference/Shamrai.pdf

--Magnon

Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Magnon on March 02, 2009, 08:33:47 PM
@Mark,

As you know, also free radicals can be used as material that has a unpaired electron.
For example polyacetylene black melanin has a unpaired electron.

" melanin is the best sound-absorbing material known[22] due to strong electron-phonon coupling."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanin

--Magnon

Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Jeff B on March 25, 2009, 12:42:56 PM
Sorry to interrupt guys -

I've been searching my system to find a link I had previously - all to no avail.   :-[
(Probably) around 2 years ago, there was a video from an older guy (American I think) who had a (form of) gravity engine.
From memory he had a working version in his shed, which turned very slowly (maybe 30-40Hz).
Then the video went on to show it in his pickup (moving slowly over a length).

AFTER this, he went on to give His Explanation of how Gravity worked.
It was all in relation to rotations etc, and his explanation was excellent.
I have a Vague feeling that you had to wait until approx 27 minutes into his video to get to this (I think it was 35-40 min long, but can't say with any certainty).

Does this ring a bell with anybody ?
Can anybody point me in the right direction.  ???
I believe I originally got the video link from these forums, and figure that one of you guys would probably know exactly what I'm after.
Can you help ?

Thanks,
Jeff.
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: giantkiller on April 10, 2009, 05:14:53 PM
Sorry to interrupt guys -

I've been searching my system to find a link I had previously - all to no avail.   :-[
(Probably) around 2 years ago, there was a video from an older guy (American I think) who had a (form of) gravity engine.
From memory he had a working version in his shed, which turned very slowly (maybe 30-40Hz).
Then the video went on to show it in his pickup (moving slowly over a length).

AFTER this, he went on to give His Explanation of how Gravity worked.
It was all in relation to rotations etc, and his explanation was excellent.
I have a Vague feeling that you had to wait until approx 27 minutes into his video to get to this (I think it was 35-40 min long, but can't say with any certainty).

Does this ring a bell with anybody ?
Can anybody point me in the right direction.  ???
I believe I originally got the video link from these forums, and figure that one of you guys would probably know exactly what I'm after.
Can you help ?

Thanks,
Jeff.

Yes. He has long curly blonde hair and doesn't wear a shirt or it's open. But I can't remeber either what his specs are.

There is another another one: A guy is in a little white GM car. It is about the size of Ford Echo. The base is flat like a skateboard and the bodies are interchangable. All drive power are in this 6" thick platform. There are no foot pedals and all controls including the rearview camera are in the steering controller. The steering control slides left to right for driving in different countries This vehicle needs no charging and has no combustion properties in it. He is driving it on the top floor a parking garage type ediface. Youtube, Anybody?

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Magnon on April 16, 2009, 06:52:11 PM
Magnon

I decided to build some core for testing purpose. I plan to use polyurethane foam for the core material, aluminium , ferrite, and nickel powder.

Can you recommend a ratio for the powders?

Should I use any special method to mix the powders, or can I reach enough homogeneity with using kitchen robot mixer, when the the monomers are still in fluid state?

The core magnetic saturation point is important here, use TPU phonon calculator to determine the needed magnetic field strenght ( typically around 0.22T ). Then mix nickel and ferrite powder with a amount that makes it possible to achieve this calculated magnetic field strenght. Aluminium powder works here as a paramagnetic material. Use ferrite with a permeability 2000.
Use 2-component polyurethane foam, mix powders with 1 component, then add  2:nd component.
First build a sample to determine the speed of sound in a composite material, then calculate the core dimensions with a TPU phonon calculator.
Place 1-turn wire loop in the middle of the core for HV input.
Black melanin is the best known acoustic wave absorber, because of strong electron-phonon coupling. If you have available this material, add this to composite.

--Magnon
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Magnon on April 16, 2009, 09:44:08 PM
To build up a vortex like vertical EM cylindrical wall, we need to rotate the transmitting place.
With a TPU this happens, when an acoustic wave travels around the cores circumference and wobbles free and unpaired electrons spin precession axis -acoustomagnetic resonance, that creates microwave emissions.

For example, if you use urethane composite core material, it can have a sound speed around 1800 m/s.
If you design a core, say 34 cm diameter, the sound wave rotates around the core at 101886 rpm speed. In this case, there are total 37 acoustic waves ( wavelenghts 2,9 cm ) travelling around the core. This leads to system, where the transmitting places rotates also. Tune applied vertical magnetic field so that Electron spin precession frequency has this same 2,9 cm wavelenght- around 7,7 Ghz in a 0,28 T applied  DC magnetic field .The created vertical direction and cylindrical shape microwave emission has this same 7,7 Ghz frequency.

--Magnon
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Phantasm on April 17, 2009, 08:42:33 AM
Please forgive me for being critical of the great work you guys are doing in this thread but I must ask... And please correct me if I'm off base here (I very well could be) but...

Is this effect using the special core described herein necessary for the TPU to run? This isnt mentioned in SM's archive of forum posts.. Was it mentioned elsewhere by SM? I dont think he ever mentioned what kind of core to use for his collector toroids has he?

If a TPU needs to be tuned off frequency so as to avoid being overloaded is it even necessary to harness additional energy? Or are you proposing that this is how SM's TPU operated?

My reasoning here is that I would think he would have mentioned something about how it was necessary to tune the core's resonance as well as the coils no? I suppose its possible he just didnt mention it but considering the risks he took to divulge the what he WAS able to tell us, I dont see any reason why he wouldnt at least mention that the cores were special in some way and then hint about how we should explore the acoustics or w/e

Further to that point - In the video where he demonstrates his large TPU there is a section of it missing where you would be able to see a solid core there (I'm at work so I cannot confirm right now but) As far as I remember, it appeared that the torroid cores were separated slightly at the point where the leads came out... Wouldnt the internal core need to be uniform about the full circumference so as to allow for the acoustics to travel - if the continuity of the internal torroid (control coils) is breached shouldnt that impeed the travel of the necessary acoustics?

Dont get me wrong though, I'm not trying to discount how effective this effect could be for harnessing energy within a TPU, I just dont want to have more complication than whats needed for TPU functionality... (at least, in my TPU anyway...)

Please correct me if I'm wrong.. I really would appreciate your input, and once again - I hope I'm not coming across as being too critical of your efforts..

Cheers,
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Magnon on April 17, 2009, 05:51:01 PM
Please forgive me for being critical of the great work you guys are doing in this thread but I must ask... And please correct me if I'm off base here (I very well could be) but...

Is this effect using the special core described herein necessary for the TPU to run? This isnt mentioned in SM's archive of forum posts.. Was it mentioned elsewhere by SM? I dont think he ever mentioned what kind of core to use for his collector toroids has he?

If a TPU needs to be tuned off frequency so as to avoid being overloaded is it even necessary to harness additional energy? Or are you proposing that this is how SM's TPU operated?

My reasoning here is that I would think he would have mentioned something about how it was necessary to tune the core's resonance as well as the coils no? I suppose its possible he just didnt mention it but considering the risks he took to divulge the what he WAS able to tell us, I dont see any reason why he wouldnt at least mention that the cores were special in some way and then hint about how we should explore the acoustics or w/e

Further to that point - In the video where he demonstrates his large TPU there is a section of it missing where you would be able to see a solid core there (I'm at work so I cannot confirm right now but) As far as I remember, it appeared that the torroid cores were separated slightly at the point where the leads came out... Wouldnt the internal core need to be uniform about the full circumference so as to allow for the acoustics to travel - if the continuity of the internal torroid (control coils) is breached shouldnt that impeed the travel of the necessary acoustics?

Dont get me wrong though, I'm not trying to discount how effective this effect could be for harnessing energy within a TPU, I just dont want to have more complication than whats needed for TPU functionality... (at least, in my TPU anyway...)

Please correct me if I'm wrong.. I really would appreciate your input, and once again - I hope I'm not coming across as being too critical of your efforts..

Cheers,

I am not building a SM TPU, but a TPU that is based to known effects and observations and models. On the other hand, this mayby, just maybe is the same technology that SM used in his TPU.
As i know, SM never told anything more technical details about TPU, he only used words like "kicks", " squeeze the hose" " tune to magnetic frequency" etc... perhaps he has his reasons for that kind of description. I dont want to use time for that kind of quessing.. it is a never ending game.
It can be that this acoustomagnetic resonance technology is used also with SEG, and with some other devices that is claimed to produce OU effects, anyway some measurements and observations are creating effects, where acoustomagnetic resonance is detected.
To your question, does the device work, if there is a hole in a cores circumference? I think that it does not destroy the effect.

Please feel free to ask about this tecnology, it belongs to science that you can think critical way. On the other hand, you must technically claim against, why this tecnology does not work.. ;)
This way a science goes forward.

--Magnon
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Phantasm on April 17, 2009, 10:26:35 PM
I am not building a SM TPU, but a TPU that is based to known effects and observations and models. On the other hand, this mayby, just maybe is the same technology that SM used in his TPU.
As i know, SM never told anything more technical details about TPU, he only used words like "kicks", " squeeze the hose" " tune to magnetic frequency" etc... perhaps he has his reasons for that kind of description. I dont want to use time for that kind of quessing.. it is a never ending game.
It can be that this acoustomagnetic resonance technology is used also with SEG, and with some other devices that is claimed to produce OU effects, anyway some measurements and observations are creating effects, where acoustomagnetic resonance is detected.
To your question, does the device work, if there is a hole in a cores circumference? I think that it does not destroy the effect.

Please feel free to ask about this tecnology, it belongs to science that you can think critical way. On the other hand, you must technically claim against, why this tecnology does not work.. ;)
This way a science goes forward.

--Magnon

@Magnon

Ahh ok :)

Actually I was thinking about it and you are right - even within the framework of what SM has said, there are a lot of ways this thing could be generating its output.. If you consider that SM has said that the kick comes from the interaction of the harmonic frequencies AND also he says they come from the first moment when you first allow current to flow in a wire... these are two entirely different principals of operation - though its totally possible that he is making use of both of these effects i expect other effects could be at work as well..

@ All

SM once said that the wiring closely resembled Pizeo stacks - I am still absorbing as much information as possible but I was not able to find out what a Pizeo stack is - im sure its something simple but could someone point me in the right direction?

Cheers,

Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Magnon on April 19, 2009, 07:51:34 PM
Thank you. I will have to order ferrite with 2000 permeability.

I just read about the melanins, they are really interesting compounds. I really don't know where can I buy it, just checked on the net, found nothing, but I will make some research in what industry they using usually, maybe I can find somewhere locally. Anybody any idea?

Wikipedia :

"Melanins, in the synthetic sense, are "rigid-backbone" conductive polymers composed of polyacetylene, polypyrrole, and polyaniline "Blacks" and their mixed copolymers. The simplest melanin is polyacetylene, and some fungal melanins are pure polyacetylene."

I think that it is best to use a non-conductive form of melanins, to avoid microwave absorbtion in a core.

--Magnon
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: otto on April 20, 2009, 06:40:17 AM
Hello all,

@Phantasm

No special core needed!!

In a TPU we have 2 cores. Im using copper as cores because Metglas cores are not good.
I can imagine that SM used 1 copper core + 1 Aluminium core.

Yes, the cores seperated but it depends on how you connect the collectors. In one way connected you dont have to seperate the cores and connected in the other way you have to seperate them.

If you have closed cores you have to connect the collectors in one way, if the cores are open on one end you have to connect the collectors in another way.

As you see we have a lot of options. Better said only 2 options.

Otto
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Magnon on April 20, 2009, 04:59:11 PM
Hello all,

@Phantasm

No special core needed!!

In a TPU we have 2 cores. Im using copper as cores because Metglas cores are not good.
I can imagine that SM used 1 copper core + 1 Aluminium core.

Yes, the cores seperated but it depends on how you connect the collectors. In one way connected you dont have to seperate the cores and connected in the other way you have to seperate them.

If you have closed cores you have to connect the collectors in one way, if the cores are open on one end you have to connect the collectors in another way.

As you see we have a lot of options. Better said only 2 options.

Otto

I just try to speed up your work   ;)

--Magnon
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: BEP on April 20, 2009, 07:01:06 PM
Hmmm....

I wonder if the FTPU spool was such material. Also, the frame of the OTPU
?
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: BEP on April 20, 2009, 07:03:03 PM
And the large dark area of the 15 inch TPU cutaway?
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Magnon on April 20, 2009, 07:47:26 PM
And the large dark area of the 15 inch TPU cutaway?

Yes, i noticed also that black, or dark core material in a 15 inch TPU cutaway.
I remember too, that SM told about frequesies something like that : "The best thing with a 35 kHz frequency is that i can not hear it"   ; the device was acoustic and acoustic wave was generated by magnetostrictive / electrostrictive effect.

--Magnon
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Phantasm on April 20, 2009, 08:29:45 PM
Hello all,

@Phantasm

No special core needed!!

In a TPU we have 2 cores. Im using copper as cores because Metglas cores are not good.
I can imagine that SM used 1 copper core + 1 Aluminium core.

Yes, the cores seperated but it depends on how you connect the collectors. In one way connected you dont have to seperate the cores and connected in the other way you have to seperate them.

If you have closed cores you have to connect the collectors in one way, if the cores are open on one end you have to connect the collectors in another way.

As you see we have a lot of options. Better said only 2 options.

Otto

Where did you get the material for your cores? Were you able to salvage from something? I've called some places and copper is very expensive for the dimensions in a TPU
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: giantkiller on April 20, 2009, 11:15:45 PM
16/2 lamp cord. Cheap.

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: otto on April 21, 2009, 05:50:53 AM
Hello all,

@Phantasm

my cores are made with copper pipes. Diameter is 1/2" or 12mm. I would love to have this pipes in a bigger diameter but...

They are used in heating systems, water supplies......cheap.

I also wanted to buy a plate of copper but .....Im not soooo rich.

Otto
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Phantasm on April 21, 2009, 09:31:18 AM
Yes, i noticed also that black, or dark core material in a 15 inch TPU cutaway.
I remember too, that SM told about frequesies something like that : "The best thing with a 35 kHz frequency is that i can not hear it"   ; the device was acoustic and acoustic wave was generated by magnetostrictive / electrostrictive effect.

--Magnon

You certainly could be right - but with SM's tale of the exploding TV, we should have the principals necessary for TPU function within the the operation of that television.

Logically, if the magnetostrictive / electrostrictive effect is a component of TPU functionality we should see this effect in the design of the TV as well.

Were the toroids in those TV's conducive to this effect? What material was used for them?

Again, I dont want to discount the validity of Acoustomagnetics but if the effect takes place in those TV's we should be able to harness it in a TPU with similar materials.

Personally, I think we're dealing with the same core material used in toroids in VHF applications. The flux needs to be able to dissipate quickly to accommodate our high frequencies so the material must be "Soft" in the magnetic sense. Otto, is this why you chose copper? I cannot find very much information about using copper toroids...

Although if you wanted to use custom cores with the intention of utilizing mametostrictive / electrostirctive effects, you'd likely get results utilizing that effect as well
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: otto on April 21, 2009, 10:25:46 AM
Hello all,

@Phantasm

I tried to use iron powder cores taken from TV deflection systems. I pulsed them and with 24V/5A I managed to light a 100W bulb with full light. The cores, hot, the MOSFETs very hot.

Then I got a lot of best quality Metglas and used this as a core. No reaction, to say so. The Metglas core didnt work.

Now Im using a copper pipe as a core. Its the best!!

SM told us in his way to use Copper and Alumimium in our TPUs but nobody is listening.

Its clear ( at least for me) that various plastics also can work in a TPU but I dont want to work with plastics because my copper core is a real beauty.

I think that iron resists to much to the flow of the particles. They are somehow penetrating the iron powder core.

Totally different is it when you use Metglas as a core. The particles are only striving over this metal and nothing happens.

Copper is between the mentioned 2 metals. When I short the core I see nice sparcs. This doesnt happen with iron powder but happens with Metglas. Not sooo strong as with copper but still to see.

Otto

PS: is here a TPU builder that listens or Im wrighting for nothing???  Heeeeeyyyyy, GK, Roberto....

Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Tito L. Oracion on April 21, 2009, 10:59:26 AM
Now Im using a copper pipe as a core. Its the best!!

SM told us in his way to use Copper and Alumimium in our TPUs but nobody is listening.

Its clear ( at least for me) that various plastics also can work in a TPU but I dont want to work with plastics because my copper core is a real beauty.

Otto

Hi sir otto

GOOD INFO !  ;D

i will try that sir  ;)

God bless
otits
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: otto on April 21, 2009, 11:20:29 AM
Hello all,

Im the next 15 or so days on vacation. No internet at home so I will be quiet for a time.

ITS TPU TIME for me.

@Tito....

its good to try the copper but ......just use a lamp wire, place it along the copper core as a collector and pulse this collector with 3 frequencies. Of course in paralel with the pulses on 1 side and the + 24V on the other side, connect a 100W bulb.

Then, another collector......then maybe a 3. collector.......enjoy in the light.

Otto
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: otto on April 21, 2009, 11:21:41 AM
Hello all,

sorry guys I forgot:

Im talking about a 15" TPU!!!

Otto
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: giantkiller on April 21, 2009, 05:00:28 PM
Hello all,

@Phantasm

I tried to use iron powder cores taken from TV deflection systems. I pulsed them and with 24V/5A I managed to light a 100W bulb with full light. The cores, hot, the MOSFETs very hot.

Then I got a lot of best quality Metglas and used this as a core. No reaction, to say so. The Metglas core didnt work.

Now Im using a copper pipe as a core. Its the best!!

SM told us in his way to use Copper and Alumimium in our TPUs but nobody is listening.

Its clear ( at least for me) that various plastics also can work in a TPU but I dont want to work with plastics because my copper core is a real beauty.

I think that iron resists to much to the flow of the particles. They are somehow penetrating the iron powder core.

Totally different is it when you use Metglas as a core. The particles are only striving over this metal and nothing happens.

Copper is between the mentioned 2 metals. When I short the core I see nice sparcs. This doesnt happen with iron powder but happens with Metglas. Not sooo strong as with copper but still to see.

Otto

PS: is here a TPU builder that listens or Im wrighting for nothing???  Heeeeeyyyyy, GK, Roberto....

@Otto,
I too suggested copper pipe. The spool of bendable copper used for ice makers in refrigerators. This is the highest quantity of lowest price ratio you can get. Why? because you can easily form it to your needs. I was even going to pour aluminum shavings down the middle to cause the copper magnetic field to stay outside! Check that out! I had more up my sleeve than I let out. That is why the rail gun docos appeared. Instead of using a magnetic field to propel a aluminum projectile I was aiming to push the magnetic field with an aluminum shield.  ;) One could also push a piece of insulated or non-ins aluminum 12awg house wire down the middle.
I was going to reproduce the GK4 with these cores. It was suggested I hold off because of my proximity to a radar base and percocious exurberance. The copper does not hold on to the current, nothing gets trapped inside like with iron. In copper, the magnetic field compresses in the center. That is why the Leedskalnin docos appeared. The iron, for my design, slowed down the catalyst. Lucky me.

@ All,
Otto, I, and a few others have gotten hurt. It don't feel good and there is nothing the medical community can do for you.

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Magnon on April 21, 2009, 08:41:56 PM
Like i told before, the spin wave from acoustomagnetic resonance effect is a helical type wave and therefore has a rotating polarization.
The direction of spin wave rotation depends on direction of applied magnetic field and radiation direction follows the direction of the applied field.
It is important to have both N and S applied magnetic fields in a device, to have both right hand spin wave rotation and left hand spin wave rotation, like it is with a SEG, that is magnetized in a direction h. This kind of system is needed to compress the spacetime. This same kind of applied magnetic field we must build in a TPU core.

--Magnon

Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Phantasm on April 21, 2009, 09:01:24 PM
@Otto,
I too suggested copper pipe. The spool of bendable copper used for ice makers in refrigerators. This is the highest quantity of lowest price ratio you can get. Why? because you can easily form it to your needs. I was even going to pour aluminum shavings down the middle to cause the copper magnetic field to stay outside! Check that out! I had more up my sleeve than I let out. That is why the rail gun docos appeared. Instead of using a magnetic field to propel a aluminum projectile I was aiming to push the magnetic field with an aluminum shield.  ;) One could also push a piece of insulated or non-ins aluminum 12awg house wire down the middle.
I was going to reproduce the GK4 with these cores. It was suggested I hold off because of my proximity to a radar base and percocious exurberance. The copper does not hold on to the current, nothing gets trapped inside like with iron. In copper, the magnetic field compresses in the center. That is why the Leedskalnin docos appeared. The iron, for my design, slowed down the catalyst. Lucky me.

@ All,
Otto, I, and a few others have gotten hurt. It don't feel good and there is nothing the medical community can do for you.

--giantkiller.

Interesting

I was just going to get some solid copper rods and bend them in to rings and use those as cores...Do you think it would be better to fill copper tubes with fine grain aluminum shavings?

Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: giantkiller on April 21, 2009, 09:11:17 PM
The shavings are comprised of curved, flat or jagged sides or edges. The shavings will emit condensed energy off the edges. The field will be distorted in the air space between the shavings. The wire is cylindrical or smooth. The wire is cheaper. Better field shape.
What makes more sense?

The second event I had was when I placed 1 TPU between 2 aluminum discs. The sharp edges ejected high speed emmisions from that side of the compression. The outer most parts of the field had no where to return to and shot off the sides. It stung me for an instance and I turned it off. But if you wait, you get the headache. Did that on a previous test. :o
After this I realized my tests were better off spent trying to get away from danger. ;D

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Magnon on April 21, 2009, 09:52:53 PM
The shavings are comprised of curved, flat or jagged sides or edges. The shavings will emit condensed energy off the edges. The field will be distorted in the air space between the shavings. The wire is cylindrical or smooth. The wire is cheaper. Better field shape.
What makes more sense?

The second event I had was when I placed 1 TPU between 2 aluminum discs. The sharp edges ejected high speed emmisions from that side of the compression. The outer most parts of the field had no where to return to and shot off the sides. It stung me for an instance and I turned it off. But if you wait, you get the headache. Did that on a previous test. :o
After this I realized my tests were better off spent trying to get away from danger. ;D

--giantkiller.

Microwave interference that run with a gain in between two reflecting mirrors.
This a reason, why open TPU has two reflecting plates..or better said half reflective plates.

--Magnon
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Phantasm on April 21, 2009, 09:57:18 PM
The shavings are comprised of curved, flat or jagged sides or edges. The shavings will emit condensed energy off the edges. The field will be distorted in the air space between the shavings. The wire is cylindrical or smooth. The wire is cheaper. Better field shape.
What makes more sense?

The second event I had was when I placed 1 TPU between 2 aluminum discs. The sharp edges ejected high speed emmisions from that side of the compression. The outer most parts of the field had no where to return to and shot off the sides. It stung me for an instance and I turned it off. But if you wait, you get the headache. Did that on a previous test. :o
After this I realized my tests were better off spent trying to get away from danger. ;D

--giantkiller.

I had also thought to use a solid aluminum rod in a copper tube but solid aluminum wire will work better - it will be easier to get the right sizes..

Also, good reminder that the forces in our TPU's are forces to be reckoned with.

Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Tito L. Oracion on April 22, 2009, 06:01:55 AM
Hello all,

Im the next 15 or so days on vacation. No internet at home so I will be quiet for a time.

ITS TPU TIME for me.

@Tito....

its good to try the copper but ......just use a lamp wire, place it along the copper core as a collector and pulse this collector with 3 frequencies. Of course in paralel with the pulses on 1 side and the + 24V on the other side, connect a 100W bulb.

Then, another collector......then maybe a 3. collector.......enjoy in the light.

Otto

Wow  :o
Thank you very very much sir !  ;D

God bless
otits
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: otto on April 22, 2009, 07:12:56 PM
Hello all,

@GK

Hurt??? Whats going on??

I have only burned fingers. Nothing more.

It seems you have profi oscillators???

With my hand made oscillators there is nothing dangerous.

As Im now on vacation Im all the days long working on my TPU.

Is in a TPU a negative resistance working??

When I pulse my TPU without a load at say 24V/4A and the connect my 100W bulb I see the same voltage from my power supply but the current is then only 1A or 2A!! Hmmm....it depends of course how the coils are connected.

Otto
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: EMdevices on April 22, 2009, 07:32:27 PM
Magnetostrictive vibration of electrical steel sheets under a non-sinusoidal magnetizing condition
Sasaki, T.; Takada, S.; Ishibashi, F.; Suzuki, I.; Noda, S.; Imamura, M.
Magnetics, IEEE Transactions on
Volume 23, Issue 5, Sep 1987 Page(s): 3077 - 3079
Digital Object Identifier

Summary:

Magnetostrictive vibration of some electrical steel sheets magnetized with a pulse width modulated inverter has been presented. Magnetostrictive deformation was measured by a semiconductor strain gauge applied to specimens. The content of higher harmonics in the vibration was found to be more than that included in the magnetic flux. High frequency magnetization superposed on that of low frequency yields a relatively large amount of the deformation in the specimen. In spite of a change of magnetizing frequency of the PWM inverter, some components of the vibration remained at particular frequencies. The cause of these high frequency vibrations was experimentally confirmed to be a shape resonance of the magnetostrictive vibration. Resonance modes were detected in a ring specimen and discussions were made with reference to theoretical mode analyses using finite element method. These results allow us to confirm that the magnetostriction in electrical steel sheets is one of the main causes of high frequency vibrations in electrical machines.

P.S.  Note the following:
1)  The content of higher harmonics in the vibration was found to be MORE THAN THAT included in the magnetic flux.
2)  High frequency magnetization superposed on that of low frequency yields a relatively LARGE amount of the deformation in the specimen.
3)  In spite of a change of magnetizing frequency of the PWM inverter, some components of the vibration remained at PARTICULAR frequencies.
4)  The cause of these high frequency vibrations was experimentally confirmed to be a SHAPE resonance of the magnetostrictive vibration.

... so, different shapes, e.g. larger rings compared to smaller rings, will have different frequencies at which they resonate. Shape matters ! But use the mixing mentality to excite any ring diameter.
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Magnon on April 22, 2009, 09:29:57 PM
Magnetostrictive vibration of electrical steel sheets under a non-sinusoidal magnetizing condition
Sasaki, T.; Takada, S.; Ishibashi, F.; Suzuki, I.; Noda, S.; Imamura, M.
Magnetics, IEEE Transactions on
Volume 23, Issue 5, Sep 1987 Page(s): 3077 - 3079
Digital Object Identifier

Summary:

Magnetostrictive vibration of some electrical steel sheets magnetized with a pulse width modulated inverter has been presented. Magnetostrictive deformation was measured by a semiconductor strain gauge applied to specimens. The content of higher harmonics in the vibration was found to be more than that included in the magnetic flux. High frequency magnetization superposed on that of low frequency yields a relatively large amount of the deformation in the specimen. In spite of a change of magnetizing frequency of the PWM inverter, some components of the vibration remained at particular frequencies. The cause of these high frequency vibrations was experimentally confirmed to be a shape resonance of the magnetostrictive vibration. Resonance modes were detected in a ring specimen and discussions were made with reference to theoretical mode analyses using finite element method. These results allow us to confirm that the magnetostriction in electrical steel sheets is one of the main causes of high frequency vibrations in electrical machines.

P.S.  Note the following:
1)  The content of higher harmonics in the vibration was found to be MORE THAN THAT included in the magnetic flux.
2)  High frequency magnetization superposed on that of low frequency yields a relatively LARGE amount of the deformation in the specimen.
3)  In spite of a change of magnetizing frequency of the PWM inverter, some components of the vibration remained at PARTICULAR frequencies.
4)  The cause of these high frequency vibrations was experimentally confirmed to be a SHAPE resonance of the magnetostrictive vibration.

... so, different shapes, e.g. larger rings compared to smaller rings, will have different frequencies at which they resonate. Shape matters ! But use the mixing mentality to excite any ring diameter.

http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0038-5670/35/2/R03

The resonance effect can be very strong, and therefore the TPU core must be made of elastic material, that allows the material strain without broken into small pieces.
Harmonics frequensies are used in a TPU. To transfer energy in between generated nested cylindrical EM walls, there must be same frequensies running in a cores circumference than there are in a generated harmonics EM walls around, because only same wavelenght and same phase can move energy in between each other. This is why SM used 3 different frequensies running around the TPU core : Each of those 3 base frequensies generates harmonics, and can also run with a gain when energy from the outer harmonic EM walls can move into cores circumference ; there are always same frequensies running around the core and in a nested EM wall outside, a perfect method to collect and compress energy. Use TPU phonon calculator to see those needed resonance frequensies and the core dimensions.

--Magnon
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Phantasm on April 22, 2009, 10:36:15 PM
Magnetostrictive vibration of electrical steel sheets under a non-sinusoidal magnetizing condition
Sasaki, T.; Takada, S.; Ishibashi, F.; Suzuki, I.; Noda, S.; Imamura, M.
Magnetics, IEEE Transactions on
Volume 23, Issue 5, Sep 1987 Page(s): 3077 - 3079
Digital Object Identifier

Summary:

Magnetostrictive vibration of some electrical steel sheets magnetized with a pulse width modulated inverter has been presented. Magnetostrictive deformation was measured by a semiconductor strain gauge applied to specimens. The content of higher harmonics in the vibration was found to be more than that included in the magnetic flux. High frequency magnetization superposed on that of low frequency yields a relatively large amount of the deformation in the specimen. In spite of a change of magnetizing frequency of the PWM inverter, some components of the vibration remained at particular frequencies. The cause of these high frequency vibrations was experimentally confirmed to be a shape resonance of the magnetostrictive vibration. Resonance modes were detected in a ring specimen and discussions were made with reference to theoretical mode analyses using finite element method. These results allow us to confirm that the magnetostriction in electrical steel sheets is one of the main causes of high frequency vibrations in electrical machines.

P.S.  Note the following:
1)  The content of higher harmonics in the vibration was found to be MORE THAN THAT included in the magnetic flux.
2)  High frequency magnetization superposed on that of low frequency yields a relatively LARGE amount of the deformation in the specimen.
3)  In spite of a change of magnetizing frequency of the PWM inverter, some components of the vibration remained at PARTICULAR frequencies.
4)  The cause of these high frequency vibrations was experimentally confirmed to be a SHAPE resonance of the magnetostrictive vibration.

... so, different shapes, e.g. larger rings compared to smaller rings, will have different frequencies at which they resonate. Shape matters ! But use the mixing mentality to excite any ring diameter.

Ok, I'm sold - Its clear that this effect occurs in a TPU - We have high frequency coils inducing high frequency flux which in turn induces magnetostrictive vibration in the core materials experiencing high frequency domain realignment

Its not 100% clear to me if a TPU is taking advantage of this effect but if thats the case then there are a couple of considerations - Firstly, the Self Resonance Frequency (SRF) of the cores is important (number 4 above). So, some of you guys are modulating the core material so as to achieve a desired SRF.

I think we can still achieve desired results by tuning a TPU to the core material's SRF and pumping 3 different coils with 3 different frequencies that are enharmonic with the core's SRF. I dont think we need really special cores if the coils are tuned to them... but I could be wrong.

Or are you guys trying to get 3 different cores to resonate at 3 different SRFs which in turn are enharmonic with eachother? If thats the case, couldnt you just use different length blocks of regular core material?

Secondly, if the harmonic interaction of the frequencies being pumped through the coils is intended to induce a magnetocoustic effect within the core material - I dont think this is correct but does that mean that coils of enharmonic frequencies are acting on the same core? That is to say that while there are 3 sets of coils each with their own harmonic frequency, are these frequencies heterodyned upon the same core material so as to induce resonance within the core? That cant be right..

Anyway, sorry to be conservative on this issue - I just think there'd've been some mention by SM about custom core material - I'm not saying it wouldnt work or that it wont achieve the desired results, I just want to make sure that its necessary to have custom cores. If there is a viable alternative available that is more simplistic, I'm for it.

--

One thing I'd like to know more about though is how the energy in the higher harmonic vibrations within the cores is harnessed - You mentioned something about microwave emission in the direction of the magnetic flux?

Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Phantasm on April 22, 2009, 11:10:23 PM

http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0038-5670/35/2/R03

The resonance effect can be very strong, and therefore the TPU core must be made of elastic material, that allows the material strain without broken into small pieces.
Harmonics frequensies are used in a TPU. To transfer energy in between generated nested cylindrical EM walls, there must be same frequensies running in a cores circumference than there are in a generated harmonics EM walls around, because only same wavelenght and same phase can move energy in between each other. This is why SM used 3 different frequensies running around the TPU core : Each of those 3 base frequensies generates harmonics, and can also run with a gain when energy from the outer harmonic EM walls can move into cores circumference ; there are always same frequensies running around the core and in a nested EM wall outside, a perfect method to collect and compress energy. Use TPU phonon calculator to see those needed resonance frequensies and the core dimensions.

--Magnon

It looks like youve answered my second question of my previous post here - specifically what coils/frequencies act on which cores - but I am confused by your terminology - what is 'the outer harmonic EM wall'?

"The generated nested cylindrical EM walls": Sounds like youre talking about the magnetic field lines (flux density?) in the cores? Is that right?

You said: "there must be same frequensies running in a cores circumference than there are in a generated harmonics EM walls around" So you mean just that the self resonance frequency of the core must be enharmonic with the frequencies induced by the coil wrapped around it in order to exchange energy from the EM field to the core or from the core to the field? is that right?

Then you said: "This is why SM used 3 different frequensies running around the TPU core : Each of those 3 base frequensies generates harmonics,"
Magnetocoustic vibration harmonics within the core? Or.. something else?

"and can also run with a gain when energy from the outer harmonic EM walls can move into cores circumference" here is where I'm confused about what you mean by outer harmonic EM walls - do you mean higher magnetocoustic vibration harmonics?

"there are always same frequensies running around the core and in a nested EM wall outside, a perfect method to collect and compress energy." Looks like you mean that each core has its own frequency - each core frequency is different but are enharmonic with each other. Yes? I guess thats the most important part anyhow..

Sorry for the confusion :\
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: BEP on April 23, 2009, 05:24:03 AM

When I pulse my TPU without a load at say 24V/4A and the connect my 100W bulb I see the same voltage from my power supply but the current is then only 1A or 2A!! Hmmm....it depends of course how the coils are connected.

Otto

@Otto

1. increase inductive reactance causing lower current from the power supply
2. connecting a load closes a circuit before as open without the load - causing a magnetic amplifier effect

?

Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: EMdevices on April 23, 2009, 06:25:21 PM
Phantasm, you got the right ideas,
SM of course uses many different TPUs and his letters and advice most likely refers to the larger TPU on the table  (i.e., his reference to 3 different frequencies, etc..)

If you approach the TPUs from my point of view  (and I dare say, HIS as well)  the TPUs are not "free energy" devices, but "conversion" devices taking energy from the magnetic fields.

So, if you have a magnetic field at a particular frequency of lets say 6 kHz,  and have a ring that has a structural resonance at let's say 2.75 kHz,  you obviously will not excite it just by itself, you need something else, and this is where the multiple frequencies come into play.

This is how:
We insert a frequency at either  8.75 kHz so that it mixes with the 6 kHz  and produces a sum and difference by product, so we get 8.75 - 6 = 2.75 kHz, now this byproduct will now fall exactly on the structural resonace and excite it.   Once that is done, due to the high Q of the structural resonance,  the resonace will be quite pronounced and noticable especialy if close to the source of the magnetic field, e.g.  power lines, transformers, lightning storm, etc..etc..  On the other hand, we can excite the ring with 3.25 kHz, and the difference will once again be 6 - 3.25 = 2.75 kHz, The only reason this mixing function works is because the nonlinear characterisitcs of the magnetic material (hysterisis) so we'll most likely need a DC biasing field, and that's where magnets come in (or just some coils with DC on them)  I built one device that I'm still experimenting with and when I tuned it realy close it vibrated like you wouldn't believe, but I'm not ready to demo it.  There is no DC yet, just AC,  so there might be more going on that we still don't understand.

EM

Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: turbo on April 23, 2009, 06:40:37 PM
Don't forget the Piezo  :)
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: EMdevices on April 23, 2009, 07:13:49 PM
oh yeah, the good old piezo, that works great as well.    Here's something to try,  place a little piezo on the rim of a glass and excite it,  boy I tell you those things will sing !!  Now excite it from a tuned tank circuit, a bit more tricky but that would make one excelent high Q receiver. (untill it breaks  LOL)
EM
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Magnon on April 23, 2009, 08:18:51 PM
It looks like youve answered my second question of my previous post here - specifically what coils/frequencies act on which cores - but I am confused by your terminology - what is 'the outer harmonic EM wall'?

"The generated nested cylindrical EM walls": Sounds like youre talking about the magnetic field lines (flux density?) in the cores? Is that right?

You said: "there must be same frequensies running in a cores circumference than there are in a generated harmonics EM walls around" So you mean just that the self resonance frequency of the core must be enharmonic with the frequencies induced by the coil wrapped around it in order to exchange energy from the EM field to the core or from the core to the field? is that right?

Then you said: "This is why SM used 3 different frequensies running around the TPU core : Each of those 3 base frequensies generates harmonics,"
Magnetocoustic vibration harmonics within the core? Or.. something else?

"and can also run with a gain when energy from the outer harmonic EM walls can move into cores circumference" here is where I'm confused about what you mean by outer harmonic EM walls - do you mean higher magnetocoustic vibration harmonics?

"there are always same frequensies running around the core and in a nested EM wall outside, a perfect method to collect and compress energy." Looks like you mean that each core has its own frequency - each core frequency is different but are enharmonic with each other. Yes? I guess thats the most important part anyhow..

Sorry for the confusion :\

The harmonic EM walls are nested cylindrical shape fields, that occurs around the core at distances 2 x r , 3 x r  etc... those fields are harmonics of the base frequency, that consists of spin waves.

--Magnon

Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Phantasm on April 24, 2009, 01:46:30 AM
The harmonic EM walls are nested cylindrical shape fields, that occurs around the core at distances 2 x r , 3 x r  etc... those fields are harmonics of the base frequency, that consists of spin waves.

--Magnon

:o

Well, thats entirely different than what I was thinking - I had thought these things were confined within the cores as they vibrate... My previous post is incorrect according to your viewpoint - I will reiterate in a subsequent post as soon as I have a moment...

Thanks very much Magnon! This is very interesting
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Phantasm on April 24, 2009, 04:03:21 AM
Phantasm, you got the right ideas,
SM of course uses many different TPUs and his letters and advice most likely refers to the larger TPU on the table  (i.e., his reference to 3 different frequencies, etc..)

If you approach the TPUs from my point of view  (and I dare say, HIS as well)  the TPUs are not "free energy" devices, but "conversion" devices taking energy from the magnetic fields.

So, if you have a magnetic field at a particular frequency of lets say 6 kHz,  and have a ring that has a structural resonance at let's say 2.75 kHz,  you obviously will not excite it just by itself, you need something else, and this is where the multiple frequencies come into play.

This is how:
We insert a frequency at either  8.75 kHz so that it mixes with the 6 kHz  and produces a sum and difference by product, so we get 8.75 - 6 = 2.75 kHz, now this byproduct will now fall exactly on the structural resonace and excite it.   Once that is done, due to the high Q of the structural resonance,  the resonace will be quite pronounced and noticable especialy if close to the source of the magnetic field, e.g.  power lines, transformers, lightning storm, etc..etc..  On the other hand, we can excite the ring with 3.25 kHz, and the difference will once again be 6 - 3.25 = 2.75 kHz, The only reason this mixing function works is because the nonlinear characterisitcs of the magnetic material (hysterisis) so we'll most likely need a DC biasing field, and that's where magnets come in (or just some coils with DC on them)  I built one device that I'm still experimenting with and when I tuned it realy close it vibrated like you wouldn't believe, but I'm not ready to demo it.  There is no DC yet, just AC,  so there might be more going on that we still don't understand.

EM

Perhaps if we activate different sections of the circumference of our cores at a time we can induce rotation or cycling of the signals round the tpu in 1 direction so as to harness a DC current from the outter collector coils wound round the core coils.

Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Phantasm on April 24, 2009, 05:38:41 AM

http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0038-5670/35/2/R03

The resonance effect can be very strong, and therefore the TPU core must be made of elastic material, that allows the material strain without broken into small pieces.
Harmonics frequensies are used in a TPU. To transfer energy in between generated nested cylindrical EM walls, there must be same frequensies running in a cores circumference than there are in a generated harmonics EM walls around, because only same wavelenght and same phase can move energy in between each other. This is why SM used 3 different frequensies running around the TPU core : Each of those 3 base frequensies generates harmonics, and can also run with a gain when energy from the outer harmonic EM walls can move into cores circumference ; there are always same frequensies running around the core and in a nested EM wall outside, a perfect method to collect and compress energy. Use TPU phonon calculator to see those needed resonance frequensies and the core dimensions.

--Magnon

Ok let lets try this again..

Basically youre saing that each core has a Self Resonance Frequency (SRF) that is a function of its material composition and shape. If the coils wrapped around each core are tuned to the SRF of their cores then when activated the core will resonate at its SRF and exhibit resonance fields along the core which are nested. You call these EM Walls which is very interesting to me... but I'll get to that later.. These fields are harmonics of the original resonance frequency within the core and different harmonics are experienced at different distances from the core. If each core is configured so that each has an SRF that each is a different harmonic of some fundamental frequency then harmonic resonance from 1 core can be used to excite a nearby core at a particular distance.

The terminology you used for these fields was "EM walls" which you say are comprised of 'spin waves'. I would very much like to read more about those - I know that a few of the links you posted for additional reading were for documents that were available by subscription... do you happen to have a direct link to one that discusses the properties of these nested EM walls?

I understand that if these are vibration waves of some kind that they can incite vibration in nearby objects, but I gather via your terminology that these things are magnetic fields inverting polarity at an enharmonic frequency with respect to the core's SRF. Is that right?

I guess Im still not entirely clear on exactly what force is being conveyed in these nested EM walls and how that force is absorbed by neighbouring cores... I mean, if they encite physical vibration in a nearby core - how is that conveyed into electrical potential in the coils of nearby cores?

Great stuff so far! Very interesting
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Magnon on April 24, 2009, 07:22:53 AM
Ok let lets try this again..

Basically youre saing that each core has a Self Resonance Frequency (SRF) that is a function of its material composition and shape. If the coils wrapped around each core are tuned to the SRF of their cores then when activated the core will resonate at its SRF and exhibit resonance fields along the core which are nested. You call these EM Walls which is very interesting to me... but I'll get to that later.. These fields are harmonics of the original resonance frequency within the core and different harmonics are experienced at different distances from the core. If each core is configured so that each has an SRF that each is a different harmonic of some fundamental frequency then harmonic resonance from 1 core can be used to excite a nearby core at a particular distance.

The terminology you used for these fields was "EM walls" which you say are comprised of 'spin waves'. I would very much like to read more about those - I know that a few of the links you posted for additional reading were for documents that were available by subscription... do you happen to have a direct link to one that discusses the properties of these nested EM walls?

I understand that if these are vibration waves of some kind that they can incite vibration in nearby objects, but I gather via your terminology that these things are magnetic fields inverting polarity at an enharmonic frequency with respect to the core's SRF. Is that right?

I guess Im still not entirely clear on exactly what force is being conveyed in these nested EM walls and how that force is absorbed by neighbouring cores... I mean, if they encite physical vibration in a nearby core - how is that conveyed into electrical potential in the coils of nearby cores?

Great stuff so far! Very interesting

There is only need for one core, that is tuned to magnetoacoustic resonance ( MAR ) to produce microwaves. Microwaves with a rotating polarization are emitted from core material, that contains unpaired and free electrons ; every single unpaired or free electron in a core material works as a small transducer, so this is not an "usual" way to produce EM microwave radiation. The radiation  follows the direction of the applied magnetic field, that is a vertical direction, therefore the base cylindrical shape EM field, that has the same cirumference as the core, has a cylindrical form. In turn this base frequency cylindrical shape pattern creates harmonics, that occurs outside of the core at distances 2 x r , 3 x r , 4 x r ..( radius of the core )  and oscillates with frequency 2 x f1 ( f1 is the base frequency ) , 3 x f1, 4x f1..etc.
The goal is to build one kind of EM field trap for the charge collection from the environment nearby. I will send some information about this phenomena later. Please feel free to ask, for most people this is first a little difficult to understand, but the operation principle is anyway quite simple.

--Magnon
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: giantkiller on April 24, 2009, 05:34:06 PM
Magnon said:
Quote
The goal is to build one kind of EM field trap for the charge collection from the environment nearby. I will send some information about this phenomena later. Please feel free to ask, for most people this is first a little difficult to understand, but the operation principle is anyway quite simple.

Sounds like the operational parameters for 'Effective aperture'.

The techical information is great here. Thanks, Magnon. This is a good read and useful information.

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Magnon on April 28, 2009, 08:32:04 PM

Sounds like the operational parameters for 'Effective aperture'.

The techical information is great here. Thanks, Magnon. This is a good read and useful information.

--giantkiller.

Ok, i think that now you know how to build a TPU or SEG..You know what materials are needed, dimensions and how to tune TPU or SEG.

--Magnon
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: giantkiller on April 28, 2009, 11:47:44 PM

Ok, i think that now you know how to build a TPU or SEG..You know what materials are needed, dimensions and how to tune TPU or SEG.

--Magnon

Anxious to get started?
http://w3.pppl.gov/~dstotler/SSFD/ (http://w3.pppl.gov/~dstotler/SSFD/)
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Magnon on May 03, 2009, 09:38:38 PM
See patent 3,087,122   -Electromagnetic wave generation utilizing electron spins in magnetic materials.

This is a very important document with a good description, how to create microwave radiation with acoustic wave. Please read very carefully. The TPU initial field is generated from this effect and this effect alone can produce microwave energy.

--Magnon

Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: giantkiller on May 05, 2009, 12:41:33 AM
The patent 3087122 and mentioned patent 2873370. Very pertainant to the process J. Hutchison does.

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Magnon on May 05, 2009, 04:09:52 PM
The patent 3087122 and mentioned patent 2873370. Very pertainant to the process J. Hutchison does.

--giantkiller.

Yes, we need to have a spin wave system ( helical type microwave source ), that has a rotating polarization. I know J.Hutchinson uses this method also. But if we use a composite material instead of conductive, solid material, we can have better results with a smaller input power. When small paramagnetic material particles are in nonconductive dielectric material under applied dc magnetic field, this allows the microwave radiation inside the core, and gives better rise to coherent mode microwave generation.

--Magnon
Title: Re: Acoustomagnetic TPU / SEG calculation model
Post by: Magnon on May 14, 2009, 06:52:57 PM