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Gravity powered devices => Gravity powered devices => Topic started by: Yortuk Festrunk on February 20, 2009, 11:10:55 AM

Title: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: Yortuk Festrunk on February 20, 2009, 11:10:55 AM
Back in the 1970s, my brother Georg and I made a toy that kept turning by itself until you stopped it yourself. It worked by springs being stretched out as they were guided around a wheel and the tension of the springs would pull the wheel back around.

When we left Czechoslovakia, we were unable to bring it with us and we never got around to making it again because there was so much to see and do in the U.S.A.

I don't know if you can say this is gravity wheel because it uses springs to make it turn.


The green circle does not turn. The purple circle is the wheel that turns.
The red balls are wheels and they hang on springs which are the yellow lines.
When the balls get to the bottom, the springs stretch and then they pull the wheel back up on the other side.

Now that you know how it works, perhaps someone can make a working one.
It can turn either way.
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: mindsweeper on February 20, 2009, 12:50:54 PM
Greetings Yortuk,

Welcome to the forum.

I had a look at your drawing and thought the idea was nice so I quickly made a simulation in WM2D. I cannot get it to work in the simulation software.

So.

I have attached a pic and the .wm2d file so if you were to download the demo you can also have a play with it. Perhaps I did something wrong.

sweep.
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: broli on February 20, 2009, 12:52:40 PM
Yortuk, why haven't you build it again? Surely this design is so simple and you already have done it once!
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: Yortuk Festrunk on February 20, 2009, 03:58:13 PM
Greetings Yortuk,

Welcome to the forum.

I had a look at your drawing and thought the idea was nice so I quickly made a simulation in WM2D. I cannot get it to work in the simulation software.

So.

I have attached a pic and the .wm2d file so if you were to download the demo you can also have a play with it. Perhaps I did something wrong.

sweep.


Hi sweep.

I tried your wheel, but it is slightly out of balance.

This is a wm2d I made that you can enjoy.
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: TinselKoala on February 20, 2009, 04:15:50 PM
Once again, a thread that does NOT deliver what the title says.

Too busy seeing the sights in the USA to re-build the world's simplest PERPETUAL MOTION free energy machine.
Right. And in the nearly 40 years since, you still haven't found time to rebuild it.
Sure. That makes sense--after all, USA is a big place with lots to see.

Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: Yortuk Festrunk on February 20, 2009, 05:46:33 PM
Once again, a thread that does NOT deliver what the title says.

Too busy seeing the sights in the USA to re-build the world's simplest PERPETUAL MOTION free energy machine.
Right. And in the nearly 40 years since, you still haven't found time to rebuild it.
Sure. That makes sense--after all, USA is a big place with lots to see.



Well, you're obviously not the sharpest tack in the drawer. I posted a working wheel in the post just above yours.

My brother was the one with the building skills. I cannot build thing like he could.
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: mindsweeper on February 20, 2009, 06:02:19 PM
Hi Yortuk,

Please set the air resistance to high (in world settings) at the moment it's not set to anything.

I think this is why the wheel turns. Perhaps a little more tinkering is needed.

I do like the idea tho, nice try..

sweep

EDIT: ignore the trolls, they wound me up for a while but I'm starting to see through them now, there not worth the finger movement.
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: TinselKoala on February 20, 2009, 06:58:56 PM
"Well, you're obviously not the sharpest tack in the drawer. I posted a working wheel in the post just above yours."

No, you posted a SIMULATION of a working wheel. That, sorry to say, won't win you Hartmann's prize. Or any credibility.

Just build the damn thing and show it working.  That's all you have to do, to PROVE ME WRONG.

Until you do, you're just like all the other claimants. Just blowing hot air.
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: hartiberlin on February 20, 2009, 07:35:25 PM
TinselKola,
calm down or I will put you on ReadOnly.

It is nice to see at least a wheel which works in WM2D,
but unfortunately no more, if you set the air resistance to low speed.
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: TinselKoala on February 20, 2009, 07:46:43 PM
TinselKola,
calm down or I will put you on ReadOnly.

It is nice to see at least a wheel which works in WM2D,
but unfortunately no more, if you set the air resistance to low speed.

Fine.
But why aren't you concerned about all the posts that claim to have a working "something" but never turn out to actually have it?
Look at your front page. Look at the thread titles. How many of them claim working devices? How many actually have working devices?
Ban me if you like. But you can't change the TRUTH.
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: hartiberlin on February 20, 2009, 08:01:54 PM
Tinsel,
I just meant, you should respect the work of others
trying to build or simulate something.

Be nice to them and don´t shout at them !
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: broli on February 20, 2009, 08:13:05 PM
There is no truth it's all everyone's opinion. And the opinion here is quite unanimous. Either share how you can improve on the ideas or keep your belittling comments to yourself because they help no one. The self righteous behavior of some here is seriously annoying.
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: AB Hammer on February 20, 2009, 08:22:39 PM
Tinsel

Remember he is working with a 35+ year old memory, just as I have with a magnet wheel. There still could be something missing. It is a very easy to construct this idea, even though I have my doubts. In this game nothing should be held for granted unless already proved a nonworking idea or effects.
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: brian334 on February 20, 2009, 09:42:27 PM
I thought this website was about free speech.
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: mindsweeper on February 20, 2009, 11:30:40 PM
I thought this website was about free speech.


It's an OU forum,

But some people think it's ok to belittle others for having an idea, helping would be better. If they put there energy into saying why things wont work instead of ripping into people and insulting them it would be a better place.

I guess some people think free speech is anything they want to say and that's just not very supportive is it.



Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: brian334 on February 20, 2009, 11:49:19 PM
Free speech is a good thing, even if it is nasty speech.
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: mindsweeper on February 21, 2009, 12:21:19 AM
Free speech is a good thing, even if it is nasty speech.


There are many who would disagree with you there.

I'd rather be a help than a hindrance, unlike some who are just outright insulting, that don't cut it here as par the warning given.

But you can try if you want.
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: yoyo on February 21, 2009, 01:09:18 AM
tinsel is right
if u were to believe half the posts claiming ou we would have hundreds of working devices
and tinsel has better input and more brains than 3 dozen of the average user here put together
what is it like 5 times a week a new thread is started saying here it is overuniity and free energy is solved
bunch of frikin $%#*&^
and the idea shown here is one of the worst yet
and he says it works but hes been too busy over the last 40 years to rebuild it and save the world and be declared the smartest greatest man in the history of the world
 >:(
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: hansvonlieven on February 21, 2009, 01:24:06 AM
G'day all,

Well, whatever else you may say about this device, it's an interesting approach I have not seen before. That in itself is something.

The fact that it runs in WM2D is also something, though this does not necessarily mean much. Many of us have devices that run forever in WM2D but have no chance in the real world. I'll attach one of mine just to show what I mean.

Altogether a valiant effort though, at least worth a closer look.

Well done Yortuk.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: brian334 on February 21, 2009, 01:30:26 AM
Cola helps to keep this forum sane.
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: Low-Q on February 21, 2009, 03:02:28 PM
I agree with TinselKoala regarding the claimed working devices
There is too many stories about claimed working devices, with a quite incredible history about how this device was destroyed, missed in the well at grandpa's house in the summer of '56, how the crow stealed all the neo-magnets, and the drawing of a working device. How a man "forgot" to take with him Pandora's box - a working overunity wheel - to USA from another country.
And also claim he is not skilled enough to make two circles with a few springs and balls on it.
I agree there is too many claims of such kind. But also we must respect these claimers - we still do not have to believe them.

Btw, I have also made working simulations, but the reality is often too complex for a simulator to handle perfectly. I have also been tempted to tell people I have a working device, because I'm sitting here in front of a computer, and will never meet those other members in real life anyways - claimes that is based on a great conviction about how this device would work in real life. After a second thought, I found out the flaw with that design too, and are glad I didn't claim anything after all :)

Br.

Vidar
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: Paul-R on February 21, 2009, 04:09:39 PM
Free speech is a good thing, even if it is nasty speech.
...and an attitude of value to the oil companies.
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: Paul-R on February 21, 2009, 04:13:18 PM
TinselKola,
calm down or I will put you on ReadOnly.
That's a good idea.....or a Yellow Card.
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: mindsweeper on February 22, 2009, 10:38:01 AM
Yortuk, don't give up. It's thinking outside the box that gets results.

I would like to add that WM2D is not the best application to chase PM. Many of us have found a solution that cannot possible work in the real world, like Hans has posted.

Here is a model I worked on for a while.

Air resistance is high and rotates with any frame rate you want.

It shows a true bug in WM2D.
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: Bessler007 on February 22, 2009, 11:18:16 PM
G'day all,

Well, whatever else you may say about this device, it's an interesting approach I have not seen before. That in itself is something.

Hans von Lieven

Hans,

The idea is similar to this.  There are some differences.



Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: Bessler007 on February 22, 2009, 11:38:37 PM
No one likes to be lied to.



Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: mindsweeper on February 23, 2009, 12:31:01 AM
Hans,

The idea is similar to this.  There are some differences.



Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB


Nothing like it!

No one likes to be lied to.



Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB

Parables are sure a Bessler secret, explain yourself or shut the **** up.

What a TROLL.
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: ramset on February 23, 2009, 12:41:01 AM
Cmdr,

VERY NICE!!

    Chet
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: pese on February 23, 2009, 02:15:08 AM
@

Hi, Yortuk. I believe you., why not.  It give more tan your inventin...

In 1941, a man , in my hometown,built a very strong, powering wheel (like Bessler) with hundreds of little cars in the wheel that rolled in tubes (inner half) of the wheel..
wheel was about 30cm  and 70cm in diameter mad from iron parts
weight approx 30kgsi

So it is just as possible as Bessler: this one or your solution.

But it’s some power that is used to which no attention is given - and it is not included in the programming of the software to try or find it. So Working Model simulations are not TRUE in relation to mechanical, hardware experiments!!

I am sure that resonance is the KEY!! I am also very sure that more than one resonance will be the source.

Source can only be if (in minimum) two different resonances are working together in HARMONIC within supra or sub frequencies:

1. Springs
2. Weight of Balls
3. Rotational Speed

We have three different FREQUENCIES! If one is changed, NOTHING WILL WORK!

So it is very hard to reconstruct them - because you have not given attention to think and "save" this knowledge!!

So no simulation software can "find this out," because no programmer has done such to provide "ports for INPUT" to change such (unknown) values.

ONLY hardware experiments can make it possible to find a solution.
Gustav Pese

beam.to/zPE  (contact-page)
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: Bessler007 on February 23, 2009, 03:22:57 AM
Nothing like it!

Parables are sure a Bessler secret, explain yourself or shut the **** up.

What a TROLL.

Hello Mindsweeper,

Always a pleasure to explain something to those less fortunate in the grey cell area. 

Making a claim that isn't true is the same as lying.  The blatant example is the name of this thread, "Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs".  It's a friggin lie.  That's one of the similarities between this device and the one I posted.  There are other similarities.

Weights suspended by springs is another as are weights moving along  a ramp.  A stationary ramp vs a moving one is a difference.  I mentioned there were differences.  There are others but the chief similarity is they both don't work yet both were attempted to be passed off as ones that do.  Both ideas were presented by liars.

Thinking people get tired of being lied to in that fashion but I wouldn't expect you to understand.

I hope you liked the explanation.

Since I quickly complied with your request of explaining or shutting the fuck up, I have one for you.

Bite my arse, you arrogant, lying piece of crap.  You're arrogant in thinking you can make demands of me.  Demanding honesty from people isn't arrogance.  Again I wouldn't expect you to understand.

Oh yea, bite it right there . . . Not so hard  ... ah yes, yes!!


Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: Bessler007 on February 23, 2009, 05:36:58 AM
No one likes their intellectual property stolen either.




Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: Yortuk Festrunk on February 23, 2009, 06:04:46 AM
@

Hi, Yortuk. I believe you., why not.  It give more tan your inventin...

In 1941, a man , in my hometown,built a very strong, powering wheel (like Bessler) with hundreds of little cars in the wheel that rolled in tubes (inner half) of the wheel..
wheel was about 30cm  and 70cm in diameter mad from iron parts
weight approx 30kgsi

So it is just as possible as Bessler: this one or your solution.

But it’s some power that is used to which no attention is given - and it is not included in the programming of the software to try or find it. So Working Model simulations are not TRUE in relation to mechanical, hardware experiments!!

I am sure that resonance is the KEY!! I am also very sure that more than one resonance will be the source.

Source can only be if (in minimum) two different resonances are working together in HARMONIC within supra or sub frequencies:

1. Springs
2. Weight of Balls
3. Rotational Speed

We have three different FREQUENCIES! If one is changed, NOTHING WILL WORK!

So it is very hard to reconstruct them - because you have not given attention to think and "save" this knowledge!!

So no simulation software can "find this out," because no programmer has done such to provide "ports for INPUT" to change such (unknown) values.

ONLY hardware experiments can make it possible to find a solution.
Gustav Pese

beam.to/zPE  (contact-page)


Yes, Gustav. The greatest scientific mind in history, Tesla, insisted that resonance is the key.

Every piece of a system must be in tune with each other, and the system as a whole, for peak efficiency.
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: mindsweeper on February 23, 2009, 08:45:52 AM
Hello Mindsweeper,

Always a pleasure to explain something to those less fortunate in the grey cell area. 

Making a claim that isn't true is the same as lying.  The blatant example is the name of this thread, "Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs".  It's a friggin lie.  That's one of the similarities between this device and the one I posted.  There are other similarities.

Weights suspended by springs is another as are weights moving along  a ramp.  A stationary ramp vs a moving one is a difference.  I mentioned there were differences.  There are others but the chief similarity is they both don't work yet both were attempted to be passed off as ones that do.  Both ideas were presented by liars.

Thinking people get tired of being lied to in that fashion but I wouldn't expect you to understand.

I hope you liked the explanation.

Since I quickly complied with your request of explaining or shutting the fuck up, I have one for you.

Bite my arse, you arrogant, lying piece of crap.  You're arrogant in thinking you can make demands of me.  Demanding honesty from people isn't arrogance.  Again I wouldn't expect you to understand.

Oh yea, bite it right there . . . Not so hard  ... ah yes, yes!!


Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB


Spoken like a true poet, I had to LMAO..
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: capthook on February 23, 2009, 09:02:40 AM
The tension of the springs/balls pulling against the wheel would result is serious resistance, like a brake.
One side the springs are releasing, but on the other side the springs are being tensioned.
Result - no gain.

I would think that even giving this device a HARD spin would result in it very quickly coming to a halt.

And a thread title of: "Look at this idea for a gravity wheel" would be much more appropriate than an assine shout of "Working Perpetual Wheel", which it obviously is not.

And your claims of being too busy touring the U.S. for the last 40 years to pursue your claimed building of the first perpetual motion gravity wheel in history makes you out to be a nutjob at best.
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: hansvonlieven on February 23, 2009, 09:30:24 AM
No one likes to be lied to.
Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB

Not true Bessler,

Go to any church, synagogue, temple, mosque or parliament in the world and you will find evidence to the contrary.  :P ;D

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: hoptoad on February 23, 2009, 09:53:06 AM
Not true Bessler,
Go to any church, synagogue, temple, mosque or parliament in the world and you will find evidence to the contrary.  :P ;D
Hans von Lieven
ROFLMAO ......    now that's the truth .....KneeDeep
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: sevich on February 23, 2009, 10:50:45 AM
author=hansvonlieven link=topic=6875.msg159426#msg159426 date=1235377824]

Quote
Go to any church.......................and you will find evidence to the contrary.  :P ;D


Han's,  that's entirely unfair!

So can I assume that according to you, going to Church on Sunday's is a wast of people's time ?

How about Johann Bessler's inspirational dream, due credit to his Christian faith & lifestyle ?



Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: Yortuk Festrunk on February 23, 2009, 11:04:09 AM
The tension of the springs/balls pulling against the wheel would result is serious resistance, like a brake.
One side the springs are releasing, but on the other side the springs are being tensioned.
Result - no gain.

I would think that even giving this device a HARD spin would result in it very quickly coming to a halt.

And a thread title of: "Look at this idea for a gravity wheel" would be much more appropriate than an assine shout of "Working Perpetual Wheel", which it obviously is not.

And your claims of being too busy touring the U.S. for the last 40 years to pursue your claimed building of the first perpetual motion gravity wheel in history makes you out to be a nutjob at best.


Another with poor perception and reading comprehension skills.

How can you make that assumption without knowing the tension of the springs? You DON"T know the tension so you CAN"T say anything about it.

You must not have even read this entire thread or you would have seen the post with the WM download that shows it working.

I never said I was touring the USA. I'm not a rock star. But again, if you had reading comprehension skills and read this whole tread, then you would know the whole story.

And there have been many working wheels in history. Unless you are calling Bessler a liar.

You sound like the nutjob, so go back to playing with Peter Pan in your nutjob world.
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: Bessler007 on February 23, 2009, 02:38:35 PM
Hans,

Bless you, my son.  I'm sending you two (I'm not tithing this Sunday) coupons.  They're as good as cash.




Bessler007
Chaplin, MIB HQ
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: utilitarian on February 23, 2009, 08:40:46 PM
Another with poor perception and reading comprehension skills.

How can you make that assumption without knowing the tension of the springs? You DON"T know the tension so you CAN"T say anything about it.

You must not have even read this entire thread or you would have seen the post with the WM download that shows it working.

I never said I was touring the USA. I'm not a rock star. But again, if you had reading comprehension skills and read this whole tread, then you would know the whole story.

And there have been many working wheels in history. Unless you are calling Bessler a liar.

You sound like the nutjob, so go back to playing with Peter Pan in your nutjob world.

We do not need to know the tension.  All springs have some tension, and he is therefore correct.

You did make the excuse of there being so many things to see and do in the USA that you have not had time to rebuild the wheel.  While it appears that no one believes you, hell, if you are serious about the wheel, why don't you just set some time aside for it and build it yourself and prove everyone wrong?
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: Yortuk Festrunk on February 23, 2009, 09:40:29 PM
We do not need to know the tension.  All springs have some tension, and he is therefore correct.

You did make the excuse of there being so many things to see and do in the USA that you have not had time to rebuild the wheel.  While it appears that no one believes you, hell, if you are serious about the wheel, why don't you just set some time aside for it and build it yourself and prove everyone wrong?

Maybe a class in reading comprehension should be held for these inept posters. Yet another who hasn't read the whole thread.

Read it all before posting things that don't make sense.
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: Bessler007 on February 23, 2009, 10:46:21 PM
Quote
Back in the 1970s, my brother Georg and I made a toy that kept turning by itself until you stopped it yourself.

Background on George and Yortuk Festrunk (http://snltranscripts.jt.org/77/77afestrunks.phtml), two wild and crazy guys.

 :D



Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB


Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: mindsweeper on February 23, 2009, 11:37:05 PM
Background on George and Yortuk Festrunk (http://snltranscripts.jt.org/77/77afestrunks.phtml), two wild and crazy guys.

 :D



Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB




And your point? TROLL
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: Bessler007 on February 24, 2009, 12:03:14 AM
The point, ARSE WIPE, is the names were ripped from a SNL fiction.  Coincidental 2 brothers have the same names as those from a comedy sketch?

Hope you don't mind if I mimic your style although I do find your use of name calling a bit controversial, irrelevant and inflammatory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll/).  Was that YOUR point?


Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB




Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: mindsweeper on February 24, 2009, 12:05:42 AM
The point, ARSE WIPE, is the names were ripped from a SNL fiction.

Hope you don't mind if I mimic your style.



Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB





Talking out the back of your head again TROLL.
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: utilitarian on February 24, 2009, 12:13:03 AM
And your point? TROLL

His point is that "Yortuk" is having a laugh at our expense, since he ripped the the names from the Steve Martin and Danny Aykroyd sketch.
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: Bessler007 on February 24, 2009, 12:16:19 AM
I did have a question for you, mindsweeper.  Do you have a valid license for Design Simulation Technologies wm2d or did you steal it like most cranks do?



Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: mindsweeper on February 24, 2009, 12:16:47 AM
His point is that "Yortuk" is having a laugh at our expense, since he ripped the the names from the Steve Martin and Danny Aykroyd sketch.

ooh dear, another ass of you and me ?
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: mindsweeper on February 24, 2009, 12:17:42 AM
I did have a question for you, mindsweeper.  Do you have a valid license for Design Simulation Technologies wm2d or did you steal it like most cranks do?



Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB

Yes thankyou, and you ? TROLL
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: Bessler007 on February 24, 2009, 12:36:21 AM
Yes, you stole it?  I have a demo copy.  You didn't steal it?  Mind posting a copy of your licensing agreement? 




Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: mindsweeper on February 24, 2009, 12:45:40 AM
Yes, you stole it?  I have a demo copy.  You didn't steal it?  Mind posting a copy of your licensing agreement? 




Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB

steering the topic towards me is a real TROLL scenario, my university would not appreciate me divulging my license information, I have no qualms with my license, you on the other hand ? I would guess are a TROLL PIRATE.

U'll have to do better than that TROLL.
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: X00013 on February 24, 2009, 12:58:54 AM
I just couldn't resist    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9SaKYFR6ms
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: mindsweeper on February 24, 2009, 01:02:28 AM
I've had enough of locking horns with TROLLS, when you stop talking out the back of your head I'll converse with you, till then you can post away, it's all TROLL BS.
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: Bessler007 on February 24, 2009, 01:14:19 AM
hit a nerve huh?  Steer the topic to you?   lol  Let's get it back to your incessant name calling and me.

Or we could talk about your analysis of the design.

Or we might talk about Universities and their licensing agreements with students having the rights but not the license and also not for wm2d but for Interactive Physics.

You stole it.  They give demo copies away.  It's not necessary to steal them.

You need to grow horns before you can lock them.



Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: AB Hammer on February 24, 2009, 02:30:15 AM
Bessler007

 I give you points for correlating the names LOL but, I can't support any of the rest you are doing. And don't give me any guff over WM2D for I don't use it. I do everything by hand designing.
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: utilitarian on February 24, 2009, 02:45:56 AM
ooh dear, another ass of you and me ?

OK, so what's your explanation?
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: Yortuk Festrunk on February 24, 2009, 03:01:25 AM
The point, ARSE WIPE, is the names were ripped from a SNL fiction.  Coincidental 2 brothers have the same names as those from a comedy sketch?

Hope you don't mind if I mimic your style although I do find your use of name calling a bit controversial, irrelevant and inflammatory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll/).  Was that YOUR point?


Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB






Most people here use names different from their regular names.

I sincerely doubt that your name is Bessler, or that you have a numeric designation of 007 from any entity. So according to your thinking, you "ripped" Johannes Bessler and James Bond.

My older brother, who is now dead, made the toy that I showed in this thread. I "helped" by holding things for him and other things that younger brothers do for their older brothers. When we left Czechoslovakia in the 1970s, we could only bring very few things and my toy wasn't a necessity.

People we knew joked about us and called us the Festrunk Brothers because we come from Czechoslovakia. So I use the name here.

I don't know the details of how he got it to work, but one thing I think about the turning wheel toy is that the "wheel" that remained stationary was not perfectly round, it was close, but a little off from a circle. I also remember that the springs would pull down just enough to allow for the rollers to roll around the guide and then pull back upwards. That was the part that he had to work the hardest for to get it just right. To me it was just a toy and nobody really cared for it.

I shared this here because maybe a more technical minded person could see this and apply their expertise to get it to work like my brother did.

To anyone who doesn't think it can work, fine, you can go and think that way, but why do you have to be such buttfaces about it?
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: Bessler007 on February 24, 2009, 04:45:02 AM
Back in the 1970s, my brother Georg and I made a toy that kept turning by itself until you stopped it yourself. It worked by springs being stretched out as they were guided around a wheel and the tension of the springs would pull the wheel back around.

When we left Czechoslovakia, we were unable to bring it with us and we never got around to making it again because there was so much to see and do in the U.S.A.

I don't know if you can say this is gravity wheel because it uses springs to make it turn.


The green circle does not turn. The purple circle is the wheel that turns.
The red balls are wheels and they hang on springs which are the yellow lines.
When the balls get to the bottom, the springs stretch and then they pull the wheel back up on the other side.

Now that you know how it works, perhaps someone can make a working one.
It can turn either way.

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I sincerely doubt that your name is Bessler, or that you have a numeric designation of 007 from any entity. So according to your thinking, you "ripped" Johannes Bessler and James Bond.

Your analytical skills aren't the greatest so I'll help you out this time.  After this I'll expect a stipend.

I am not actually saying, as you are, that I'm either James Bond or Bessler.  That's a distinction here I think you missed as you're telling this story.  Now rather than spend a lot of time on that point we'll examine what you've said of substance so far.

To begin with you've made a claim your toy actually worked.  Who's to doubt it since no one was there when you got off the boat without your toy?

Well the idea is similar to a combination of the previous wheel I posted and a ramp design from some guy out of Canada.  Neither of those ideas had merit and they've been examined in rather fine detail mathematically and with actual models.

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I don't know the details of how he got it to work, but one thing I think about the turning wheel toy is that the "wheel" that remained stationary was not perfectly round,

Now you say the above after I've spent the last hour looking at the idea as you originally posted it looking at discs or wheels.  One could only imagine them to be circular.  If I had a ripped version of wm2d I could download your file to see if you used circles but since that's the easy route I'd suspect you did.

Incidentally do you have a license for wm2d?  springwheel4.wm2d (17.92 KB - downloaded 41 times.)   :)

I ran a simulation with one 3kilo mass suspended from a rotating disc with 3 strong springs and colliding with a stationary disc (arbitrarily offset) 180 out of phase with another 3 kilo mass.  I'd assume this pendulum arrangement would at least be able to maintain rotation.  If there were any merit to the idea I'd expect it to accelerate out of control.

Neither happened.  The rotating disc lost steam.


Now you suggest people hone up on their reading comprehension but at this juncture you want to add some more to the story.  What's the point in reading what you've written if the story keeps changing?  (not a perfectly round circle).

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I shared this here because maybe a more technical minded person could see this and apply their expertise to get it to work like my brother did.

A technically  minded person is going to need more constraints than you've given.  Most thinking people aren't going to be willing to spend much time on an idea that on the face of it has no merit.

Now I don't support what some have done claiming they have some toy that will turn but not produce much power and they're working on a real engine that can do some work.  Guaranteed by Christmas.  Pure bullshit.  heheh  Christmas has come and gone, AB Santa.



Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: Bessler007 on February 24, 2009, 04:59:38 AM
I meant to say I changed various things yet still got similar results.  I began with 10kilo weights and reduced them to 3.  I varied the frames/sec from 15,000 to 100 with various rates between those extremes.  Same results.

I might have done this work sooner but I was distracted by a butt*faced troll who as far as I can see has yet to add any analysis of this wheel to the discussion.




Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: Bessler007 on February 24, 2009, 05:15:37 AM
Bessler007

 I give you points for correlating the names LOL but, I can't support any of the rest you are doing. And don't give me any guff over WM2D for I don't use it. I do everything by hand designing.

You're a pyromaniac in a field of straw men.


Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: FreeEnergy on February 24, 2009, 05:45:16 AM
Bessler007 please post the wmd2 file
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: Bessler007 on February 24, 2009, 05:52:25 AM
Hello FreeEnergy,

I can't do that.  I only have a demo version of wm2d.  I can answer any questions you have though.  The simulation is a reduction (as I see it) of the idea.



Bessler007
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: AB Hammer on February 24, 2009, 02:07:47 PM
Bessler007

 You haven't changed. LOL
AB Santa now that was that was very witty. The facts are I never built that wheel due to other research, and I was letting my hobby get in the way of my life. And in this game I have plenty of time. My strongest lesson. You will see more soon enough though. LOL
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: Bessler007 on February 24, 2009, 03:40:25 PM
Alan,

The only constant is change.  Sure I've changed.  Change you can believe in.

You've learned a good lesson.  I'd say there's quite a lot of time when it comes to causing gravity to turn a shaft.  It's a powerful idea but very elusive.  Reality seems to resist every build.

Here is a good lesson you might feel free to learn.  Don't try to speak to reality causing it to bend to your desires in the area of physics.  Politics is another matter.  That's an area where liars and thieves accuse others of being what they are and force everyone to accept their declarations with the volume of their repetition.

At the end of the day when all the matrices are multiplied reality just sits there chuckling thinking, guess again.  When it does the arithmetic it doesn't forget to carry one infinitesimal.  Reality doesn't miss a thing.

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You will see more soon enough though. LOL

ok, I'll consider it a date.  Now let me go get gussied up.  I think I might wear my iron thong.




Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: AB Hammer on February 25, 2009, 01:43:20 AM

ok, I'll consider it a date.  Now let me go get gussied up.  I think I might wear my iron thong.


LOL Bessler007

 My apprentice specializes in BDSM and I have been teaching him how to make restraints. He has also gotten very good with chain mail. My nickname for him is, The Rabid Hamster, and his wife is a Domme. I am sure they would love to meet you.
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: hansvonlieven on February 25, 2009, 02:35:37 AM
Yep Alan,

I'd think your business is just right for THAT sort of industry. BTW. How are the sales of Chastity Belts coming along?
 ;D ;D ;D

Hans
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: AB Hammer on February 25, 2009, 07:19:14 PM
Yep Alan,

I'd think your business is just right for THAT sort of industry. BTW. How are the sales of Chastity Belts coming along?
 ;D ;D ;D

Hans

Hans

 You know that Chastity is a dying thing. Now! hanging stands are in great demand. LOL
Title: Re: Working Perpetual Wheel Using Springs
Post by: Alexioco on March 21, 2009, 06:15:26 PM
Looking at this wheel design, I would say its quite an interesting idea, may not work but it's a unique idea which may lead or have somthing to do with a possible working wheel?

Alex