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Author Topic: Knitel's InfinityPump  (Read 106157 times)

Offline itanimuLLi

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Re: Knitel's InfinityPump
« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2009, 01:40:50 PM »
Hi all,
This is the solution to the air problem.

Use the weight 100 as a cylindrical weight and use polyurethane foam which are used in toilet syphones or in home insulation, in the the space where air supposed to be and the problem is solved. You can not have air above the weight cose air will expand in vacume the water cant pump up.

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Re: Knitel's InfinityPump
« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2009, 01:40:50 PM »

Offline tsl

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Re: Knitel's InfinityPump
« Reply #46 on: February 18, 2009, 01:44:42 PM »
It would be nice if someone take a closer look to the hydrostatic pressures in the device... :-*

Offline tbird

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Re: Knitel's InfinityPump
« Reply #47 on: February 18, 2009, 02:46:30 PM »
to all since reply #7,

i don't know if it was too hard to access or just laziness or just over every bodies head, but i think we should read the post and comment on its merit.

for ease of use, i post it here below.



hi wiz,

i'm sorry to say, i think you owe hans an apology.  i agree he is not very specific, but has given enough (if researched) to find the answer.

his comment was basically you can't float the piston.  my come back was to increase the volume of the weight enough to displace more weight (water here) than the weight used to pump the water.   this would be well and fine except that the amount of increase for the given area of the piston/disk would require all of the space given for the stroke, not just some.

this brings us to his statement about  hydraulics.  this has to be applied because of the syphon effect.  liquids being what they are, must follow certain rules (not always what we want or think they should be).  i think where we get thrown off is in the beginning when we hear 100 lbs or 100 kg.  THAT's a lot of weight!!!  but really what we have to look at is how much is applied to each square unit (inch, cm, mm, ect.)  i use U.S. measurements so i would say pounds per sq.in. (psi).  so if we have 100 pounds spread over 100 sq.in. (that's 10 inches by 10 inches), this would equal 1 psi.  now we have to figure how much does the water weight in the supply tube (column) and then how much is that per sq.in .  let's say it is 1" x 1" (make it easy).  from the reseach we find that 1 cubic inch of water weights .036127 lbs.  so how many cubic inches can we stack up before we get to 1 lb (100lbs hanging from 10" x10" disk = 1 lb psi)?  well 1 / .036127 = 27.68 inches.  so now we know the "head pressure of a 1 inch square pipe 27.68 inches high, 1 lb psi.  EDIT:  that's as high as we can go with 100 lbs applied to a 10" x 10" disk sealed in a 10" x 10" cylinder.

this is starting to look like a problem.  not much travel.  in this we have to have the weight and volume to displace 100lbs and still have room to move water (stroke).  let's see, how much volume (displacement) does 100lbs require to float?  since we know 1 cubic inch of water weights .036127 lbs, we can say 100 lbs will require 2768 cubic inches.  since we already have a given surface area for the disk, 100 square inches, all we need now is the height.  so, 2768 / 100 sq.in. = 27.68 inches high.  that sounds just the length of our supply tube, which will leave NO room for a stroke.  NO STROKE, NO MACHINE!

there is always a possibility i made a mistake, but i don't think so.  if you see one please respond with propper reference (as you have asked hans to do).

btw, Gravitator's machine doesn't work either as drawn, but for a different reason (which he knows about).

i'm not trying to be a wise guy, but right is right.  thanks for your help hans.

tom

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Re: Knitel's InfinityPump
« Reply #47 on: February 18, 2009, 02:46:30 PM »
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Offline Bulbz

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Re: Knitel's InfinityPump
« Reply #48 on: February 18, 2009, 02:51:11 PM »
Why are people talking about air? There is no air in the system, those white empty spaces are vacuum.

That's what I thought.

Offline newton2

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Re: Knitel's InfinityPump
« Reply #49 on: February 18, 2009, 02:51:29 PM »
Hello Honoured Profiles and the Honoured Administrator of This The Honourable OU-Forum !

Thanks about this other per "Head-Lines" promoted "perhaps"-OU-Methods-Idea !

YES....really a "Point" for further ALL-Classical-Mechanics-founded Discussions (pro)-et-contra :
the Gravity-Force´s Maths-Integral over a Closed Path of a [Force x Way]........there are still some hidden un-discovered possibilities for OU and for Space-Drive in Classical Mechanics´s Foundations
Theses......i.e. to re-formulate the Original Newtonian Mass<->Force<->Acceleration<->velocity/positionsalterings<->etc..........!!

Well-then...now about this per Topic (Page 1) suggested Idea...could a kind of ONE-SHOT/ONE-EVENT-OU be possible ...with kind Reference to theTopic´s enclosed nice clear Drawing/Vdeo-Sequence :

==>>
The 100-kilo-grams CLOSE-Fitting Piston "ends" at "Bottom" of Water-Cylinder......the Piston seemingly is "Internal-Functional as Passive" and seemingly has a "Weight"-to-Volume-Ratio of
more than liquid/Water...........THOUGH because of One-Time-Process-Step , THEN is the NEXT Circumstance : HOW TO COULD LIFT UP AGAIN THE 100-kilo-grams Piston.......a basical Calculation involving also Piston´s Own Weight-to-Volume-Ratio though seems to "get" a Total-ForcexWay-Result as NOT to be even a ONE-SHOT/ONE-EVENT-OU-Process.......!!     <<==

Some very-"loosely-brief comments :
##Gravity-Field is "meant" as a CONSTANTLY-Being Force...NOT to be altered to suppose....then
how  if NOT being a GRAVITY , though if THEN  "performed" in a only-per-rotational-"RxOmegaxOmega"-"force"-Area......THEN though there THEN  is the socalled "Coreolis-Force".....etc......or just etc of "The too established Dogmes-Physics"..........
though such seemingly "counter-OU"-Aspects have been realized about for several Y-Decades.......
still though: OU has NOT been "proven" to be "NOT-possible" "once-for-all-as-all-in-total "NO"......
.......==>>for there are still some un-discovered OU-Aspects hidden in Classical Mechanics.........<<==.....!

NO,I am NOT intending for to would DE-courage any Ideas about socalled Gravity-Caused-SELFRUNNERS/SELFLIFTERS...for many requested for interesting Discussions have been based on such Methods-Ideas as pointed-out in the Topic (Page 1)..........

FOR IF...FOR IF........some "Classical-Mechanics´s defined "Force" ELSE than THE GRAVITY might be applied and the Video-Sequence´s Moving Drawing be slightly modified , THEN there could be an OU-Acting.........!!

THANKS about this Ideas-Method as mentioned in the Topic (Page 1) about such suggested OU-Methods....also i.e. the "Caterpillar-belt" in liquids/air........also i.e. various suggested OU-Ideas-Methods of i.e. altering of Weight-to-Volume-Objects in Air/Liquids/Frozen<->Liquids<->Steams-Conditions-dynamically-acting-in-a-Gravity-Field,etc......
FOR ALTERNATIVE PHYSICS ARE NOT FOUNDED ON "too-established-Dogmes", though are
Forums of Creative Discussions of Novel Ideas and Theses , etc !

WKR & have Yourselves a nice Day ; thanks about Your All Participations in The Honourable Course of OU !

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Re: Knitel's InfinityPump
« Reply #49 on: February 18, 2009, 02:51:29 PM »
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Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Knitel's InfinityPump
« Reply #50 on: February 18, 2009, 04:04:28 PM »
wizkycho, Gravitator, and all

 After long evaluation of this design. My findings are you would be better off taking out the piston. At least you would have better reaction for a short time, for what it is worth.

Offline tbird

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Re: Knitel's InfinityPump
« Reply #51 on: February 18, 2009, 04:11:13 PM »
wizkycho, Gravitator, and all

 After long evaluation of this design. My findings are you would be better off taking out the piston. At least you would have better reaction for a short time, for what it is worth.

surely you understand why that won't work?  since the exhaust is higher than the source, the syphon won't work.  NO FLOW, NO MACHINE.

tom

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Re: Knitel's InfinityPump
« Reply #51 on: February 18, 2009, 04:11:13 PM »
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Offline broli

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Re: Knitel's InfinityPump
« Reply #52 on: February 18, 2009, 04:42:40 PM »
My brain might have some loose nuts but can someone explain to me what siphon action there is. Because my small brain can't find it. Wiz, I think you're past convincing people and have to try and build it yourself. For convenience sake you can only make a proof of concept. For ease sakes all you have to do is prove that the two actions to work separate. If they do then combined they can also work.

Offline wizkycho

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Re: Knitel's InfinityPump
« Reply #53 on: February 18, 2009, 04:51:42 PM »
Hi all !

new anim.(not perfect)

@tbird

You just refuse to admit that 1000t (tons) can float on water. There is no sifoning effect ?? Where do You see it ?
You forgot to enter in calculation that input pipe has much smaller diameter than cilinder ...why ?

principle and mathematics behind this is simple. it is see through

Weight(MP) is changing media in which it is.

In Air this weight has its maximum weight - say 1000Kg, in water is boyant and has less then 0Kg.

You now say that this change in weight can not produce pumping (sucking action).

It is obvious You mess up your calculus and messed it up big time...why ?

I haven't offended Hans so I don't have to appologise.


@ABhammer
You are using hammer in a wrong place


Wiz  InfinityPump runs in OverunityMode



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Re: Knitel's InfinityPump
« Reply #53 on: February 18, 2009, 04:51:42 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Knitel's InfinityPump
« Reply #54 on: February 18, 2009, 04:53:50 PM »
@ABHammer:
Your concept will not work.
Air will come in and kill it.
You need the weight and the valves.

@TBird,
I don´t understand your problem.

You can make the weight also 1000 kg
if it will still float ( have positive buoyancy force = will swimm)

This way you will have enough "sucking power" to suck
up all the water through V1 through the small pipe ( also helped via the external 1 bar air pressure
of the environment)
and push-press down the water beneath it.

@All,
the wite space surely can be air inside the cylinder as
long as no more air will come into the system after several cycles, the system
will work im my humble opinion and will pump water infinitely.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Knitel's InfinityPump
« Reply #55 on: February 18, 2009, 05:00:13 PM »
Hi Igor,
yes, this new animation should also work very good !

Brilliant, Well done !

Regards, Stefan.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Knitel's InfinityPump
« Reply #55 on: February 18, 2009, 05:00:13 PM »
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Offline tbird

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Re: Knitel's InfinityPump
« Reply #56 on: February 18, 2009, 05:03:41 PM »
hi all,

you make it sound like this heavy weight will float on the surface of the water.  it won't!  it will displace water (make a hole) and set inside (not sink).  to do this it needs to displace more water than it weights.  this much water has volume.  1 cubic inch weights .036127 lbs.  how many cubic inches will it take to weight the same  (really more) than your weight?  since the disk only has so much area, you have to gain the rest in depth.  any clearer now?

tom

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Knitel's InfinityPump
« Reply #57 on: February 18, 2009, 05:05:11 PM »
P.S:. Igor,you can also use 2 x V2 valves at the bottom, so the air will come easier
into the lower water cylinder in your new animation.

You could also even open the hole lower cylinder plate until
the lower water has all flown out.

Offline tbird

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Re: Knitel's InfinityPump
« Reply #58 on: February 18, 2009, 05:33:50 PM »

There is no sifoning effect ?? Where do You see it ?
You forgot to enter in calculation that input pipe has much smaller diameter than cilinder ...why ?


if there is no syphoning effect, how is the water moved from lower to higher?  you are doing the same thing as syphoning.  the difference is you have replaced the longer end of the hose which has more weight (water) which causes the transfer, with a lesser volume weight.  the force is still there to draw the water up.

input pipe can be any size diameter.  as long as you have enough weight to move 1 square unit, you can raise the column of all square units.  to compare, think of a syphon hose.  it is the same diameter for its total length.

i think everyone (like me long ago) thinks the large weight applies its force to the small tube.  it doesn't unless the tube is as large as the cylinder.  even then it is spread evenly over the total area of the disk.  that is why you have to figure the weight of a column (sq.in., cm2, etc.) not total tube.  if you have a disk surface area larger than the input tube area, the extra weight is applied to the top of the closed cylinder (not used by input tube).  after all, gravity's force is only down, not side ways.

i'm sure i have said things here that you can't believe.  that is why hans said to study.

tom

Offline ramset

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Re: Knitel's InfinityPump
« Reply #59 on: February 18, 2009, 06:07:50 PM »
Third

Siphon, no

 Mechanical suction yes[upside down bicycle pump]

If the big weight displaces more than the pick up tube

The weight will not stay up,and will suck [not siphon] water from the tank below

Chet

 

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