Author Topic: Knitel's InfinityPump (Read 131140 times)

PhiScience · « **Reply #120 on:** February 19, 2009, 06:23:17 PM »

Hi friends,

I will do some physical experimenting on this to fill in the missing lines below and find the true answer.

Problem:
Can a buoyant weight pull enough water to the top of a cylinder to re-displace it self?

Hypotheses:
Based on the principles of hydraulic and hydrostatic pressure this cannot be achieved.
Or can it?

Materials:
The materials needed to conduct this experiment are still to be determined.

Procedure:
The procedures of conducting this experiment are still to be determined.

Results:
No data has been collected yet.

Conclusion:
?

Wayne

tbird · « **Reply #121 on:** February 19, 2009, 08:13:41 PM »

hi stefan,

just for kicks, i did some calcs with your numbers. since your weight in the tube was off by 10 x, i used 200kg instead of 2000kg. let's see where this takes us. since metric is foregin to me, i won't be surprised if i make a mistake. let me know.

5 meters intake tube with 1 cm diameter.
area of diameter = 1 squared times 3.14 (pie) =3.14 cm2
weight of water per cm2 = .5kg

swimmer weights 200kg with radius of 11 cm.
area of swimmer = 3.14 times 11 squared = 379.94 cm2
weight per cm2 = .52639 since this is more than is in the tube, we can raise the water.

volume needed to float 200kg swimmer; since 1 cm3 of water weights 1 gram, for 200kg of water,
we need a volume of 200,000 cm3
200,000 divided by 379.94 cm2 = height (or depth) in cm
height = 526 cm or 5.26 meters

not pretty.

we can try other numbers, but i'm sure the results will be the same.

tom

wizkycho · « **Reply #122 on:** February 19, 2009, 08:37:32 PM »

Hi all !

1cm2 is surface of water quadratic pipe
100cm2 is surface of quadratic destination container

total weight of water in pipe is 1cm3=1g times 500cm = 500g
height of pipe is 5m

tbirds claim, if I got it right, that pressure in quadratic pipe is 500g per 1cm2 and that negative preassure is multiplied 100 times cause quadratic surface is 100 times bigger.
so it would be 50000g or 50Kg per 100cm2

I'm going to "attack it" from above
Ep=W*h (W is weight in Kg)

floater-swimmer will have to move 5cm i order to pump up 500cm3
so it did 50Kg*0.05m = 2.5W of work
with this we actually lifted 500g to 5m
and this is 0.5kg * 5m =2.5W

now this says you are right

10cm height in container makes 1000cm3 and is 1kg of displaced water or
88.5cm3 of lead for 1kg (density of lead is 11.3) or
0.885cm of height in container for 1kg of lead so
0.885cm * 60 to have 60Kg for certain start of suction

that makes 53.1cm of height
then I add another 53.1cm of air

container is now 106.2 cm in height and displaces only 10.6Kg

and height of floater is allready over 1m

it dosn't float *************

buhuuuuuuuu my star exploded (but only if you are right)

let's make another one

Wiz

xnonix · « **Reply #123 on:** February 19, 2009, 08:40:00 PM »

Clear enough tbird

wizkycho · « **Reply #124 on:** February 19, 2009, 08:54:45 PM »

All!

still must admitt I'm still puting in perspective
that even 40Kg is not enough to lift that 0.5kg of water.
that still seems impossible to me.

must make experiment

this is 3D Force times lever width. What a magicall fluid we drink

Wiz !

tbird · « **Reply #125 on:** February 19, 2009, 08:55:34 PM »

hi wiz,

not 100% sure of what you said, but it sounds like you agree.

i'm ready for the next. what did you have in mind?

tom

wizkycho · « **Reply #126 on:** February 19, 2009, 09:43:25 PM »

Quote from: tbird on February 19, 2009, 08:55:34 PM

hi wiz,

not 100% sure of what you said, but it sounds like you agree.

i'm ready for the next. what did you have in mind?

tom

to proceed

wiz

brian334 · « **Reply #127 on:** February 19, 2009, 09:44:41 PM »

The magic 100 kg. weigh is heavy enough to lift the same water it floats in.

brian334 · « **Reply #128 on:** February 19, 2009, 09:54:45 PM »

I suggest this test.
Get yourself a balance, put 100 kg on one side and 1 kg on the other.
Watch what happens.

wizkycho · « **Reply #129 on:** February 19, 2009, 10:28:58 PM »

Hi all !

any idea on how to make this negative preassure for suction smaller...elastic fluid, differently shaped entrance from input pipe
by introducing helium or vacuum to make it able to float with smaller volume...

@tbird
any suggestions, has someone solved it.

pump action part must be made plane...although without seeing actual experiment still can not believe that this preassure just multiplies
and takes over 50kg to start pump action from tube that contains 0.5kg. are there more details on this...

have no time for this exp. we would need obvious method

thx
it was and is interesting

Wiz

sushimoto · « **Reply #130 on:** February 19, 2009, 11:00:43 PM »

Quote from: wizkycho on February 19, 2009, 03:31:20 PM

<SNIP>
So it is called Knitel's InfinityPump...because 60%-70% and closing the loop is done by that fabulous, wonderfull, brilliant, careing, goodlooking, civilized, magicall, explorer, brain stormer, extraordinary mind, protector of weak, justfull, leader, strong carrisma,with prodigy, dexterity, agility,...what to say then perfect...

the very same Knitel Igor

Wiz

Come on Wiz,
As I mentioned before; I love this.... learning curve.
And you for always bringing in such brain-jogging.

Thought about Capilar tubes?
A Tree does not need any pump to lift its water

brian334 · « **Reply #131 on:** February 19, 2009, 11:05:29 PM »

any idea on how to make this negative preassure for suction smaller...elastic fluid, differently shaped entrance from input pipe
by introducing helium or vacuum to make it able to float with smaller volume...

I suggest this - put rocket engines on the bottom of the 100 kg weigh so it will go back up.

wizkycho · « **Reply #132 on:** February 19, 2009, 11:37:23 PM »

Quote from: brian334 on February 19, 2009, 11:05:29 PM

any idea on how to make this negative preassure for suction smaller...elastic fluid, differently shaped entrance from input pipe
by introducing helium or vacuum to make it able to float with smaller volume...

I suggest this - put rocket engines on the bottom of the 100 kg weigh so it will go back up.

My allmost public embarresment seems to amuze You.
no meaningfull ideas whatsoever... so i must make You sad again

principle of work changing media Air/Fluid(water) and making therefore heavier/lighter floater works and unlike You guys Knitel's infinity pump
has only one and very noneconvincing flaw. are You convinced in this flaw ? and that is unworkable ?

This is strong workable principle to further build on. but I see you stopped on some minor tecnicality.

Wiz

brian334 · « **Reply #133 on:** February 20, 2009, 12:04:56 AM »

If you canâ€™ t take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

hansvonlieven · « **Reply #134 on:** February 20, 2009, 12:45:57 AM »

G'day all,

This is the first in a series that shows why devices such as the Knitel device cannot work. The first segment explains the hydrostatic paradox, which is fundamental to the understanding of any hydrostatic and hydraulic system.

Since I can no longer embed my graphics here I was forced to use Microsoft word for the paper as the graphics need to be in their correct places. I apologise for this. I will later put the whole paper on my website in HTML form since it appears to be a popular subject.

I hope you guys appreciate this, this is a lot of work.

Hans von Lieven

News:

User Menu

Author Topic: Knitel's InfinityPump (Read 131140 times)

PhiScience

Re: Knitel's InfinityPump

tbird

Re: Knitel's InfinityPump

wizkycho

Re: Knitel's InfinityPump

xnonix

Re: Knitel's InfinityPump

wizkycho

Re: Knitel's InfinityPump

tbird

Re: Knitel's InfinityPump

wizkycho

Re: Knitel's InfinityPump

brian334

Re: Knitel's InfinityPump

brian334

Re: Knitel's InfinityPump

wizkycho

Re: Knitel's InfinityPump

sushimoto

Re: Knitel's InfinityPump

brian334

Re: Knitel's InfinityPump

wizkycho

Re: Knitel's InfinityPump

brian334

Re: Knitel's InfinityPump

hansvonlieven

Re: Knitel's InfinityPump