Author Topic: New youtube of magnet/coil "perpetual motion" (Read 123487 times)

pinestone · « **Reply #195 on:** September 02, 2009, 12:51:11 AM »

Quote from: magnetman12003 on September 01, 2009, 11:48:45 PM

Quote from: pinestone on April 14, 2009, 05:46:49 PM
Quote

I think you guys have missed the simplicity of this thing.

Hi, What transistor(s) would you recommend? Describe the coil/core diameter/lenght. Bifiliar AWG Wire size/ lenght.---- All as starting recommendations --- Working voltage of the cap also.
Input on just what small DC fan motor might be used would also be helpfull. Operating voltage/manufacturer ??

I would like to build this and give it a try.

Tom

This is just a concept type drawing. I really haven't thought about actual values.

But:
You may want to experiment with 600 - 700 turns of #32 magnet wire on a core made from 1/16" welding rod (iron). cut the rods about 1 1/2 " long and hold them together with a piece of shrink tubing. Hold the whole thing together with a few drops of superglue.
I've tried bi-filar wound and separate wound (on the same core) coils. I really didn't notice much of a difference. I doubt you need such a high impedance on the secondary coil to fire the transistor, so you could get away with a secondary coil on the same core, using less turns (instead on bi-filar wound).
Since the cap is storing the energy for the next stage, a big value like 1000 uF or higher would be a good choice.

A motor out of an old inkjet printer or tape player would work as a dc generator.

Even though I drew a bi-polar transistor in the diagram, a power MOSFET would be the best choice. Something like a IRF521 or equiv.

like this:

magnetman12003 · « **Reply #196 on:** September 02, 2009, 03:41:58 AM »

Pinestone,

Am I correct in thinking that the iron core suggested is made up of smaller 1/16 inch iron rods bundle/stacked together and 1.5 inches in LENGHT ? I have many of those. If that is the case what might be the core bundle DIAMETER? The rotor magnets will face the core diameter.
Need both figures as starter recomendations. Do you think ultra fast switching 1N4148 diodes will work? I would like to stay away from anything that needs battery power so what other transistors might I try? A 2N2222, 2N4401, and a 2N1711 have been suggested??

I dont care if I reach overunity but coming real close will be nice if thats even possible at all.

Tom

pinestone · « **Reply #197 on:** September 02, 2009, 05:01:38 AM »

Quote from: magnetman12003 on September 02, 2009, 03:41:58 AM

Pinestone,

Am I correct in thinking that the iron core suggested is made up of smaller 1/16 inch iron rods bundle/stacked together and 1.5 inches in LENGHT ? I have many of those. If that is the case what might be the core bundle DIAMETER? The rotor magnets will face the core diameter.
Need both figures as starter recomendations. Do you think ultra fast switching 1N4148 diodes will work? I would like to stay away from anything that needs battery power so what other transistors might I try? A 2N2222, 2N4401, and a 2N1711 have been suggested??

I dont care if I reach overunity but coming real close will be nice if thats even possible at all.

Tom

My experiments have shown the coil core diameter should be equal to the magnets diameter for the best performance. Using iron rods in this arrangement is similar to a laminated core (like a screen door for electrons...ha ha).
A FET transistor would be a better choice for the coil driver- fast switching with low loss.
As for the diode, any general purpose switching diode should work.

Like I said earlier, this is just a 'thought experiment', and I've never actually tried to build one, but I've made quite a few Bedini, Adams and other similar types of motors successfully.

Little DC motors will generate electricity, but finding the best motor for this type of application may take some digging- plus the correct ratio between the rotor diameter and the generator (motor) output will be tricky to figure out.

The biggest problem I see with ANY attempt at overunity is when a real load is put on the device, there will not be enough power to keep going. It may run itself, but that would be like a dog chasing its tail-

good luck

BTW, in my original description, I said the dc generator (motor) will spin 4-5 times faster than the outer magnets, but what I mean is there will be 4-5 more times the TORQUE on the generator (motor) than the outside of the rotor. My bad.

magnetman12003 · « **Reply #198 on:** September 02, 2009, 06:27:47 AM »

Hi,
Thanks for answering my questions. I appreciated the advice.

Now can anyone suggest a small DC motor that spins at a low speed when used as a motor. Also might generate 2 volts DC or more at a lower speed without using much force to turn the drive shaft. (What transistor triggers at 2 volts?) I see Surplus Sales of Nebraska has many smaller DC motors listed. I searched Ebay also. Which one might work for this aplication? Any guesses???

The whole setup should not drain anyones wallet or cause financial ruin. So what the heck--I for one will try and I am not an electronic guru.

Tom

magnetman12003 · « **Reply #199 on:** September 03, 2009, 03:26:20 AM »

Say I used an aluminum bike wheel with powerful neo disk magnets spaced evenly all around its outside diameter. The wheel would be balanced perfectly and ride on a bearing that is almost friction free.
A 6 volt bike light generator would be mounted to the wheel and its power directed into the illustrated circuit.--- Would that work if the generator drag was not that great?

magnetman12003 · « **Reply #200 on:** September 09, 2009, 03:58:15 PM »

Quote from: pinestone on September 02, 2009, 05:01:38 AM

My experiments have shown the coil core diameter should be equal to the magnets diameter for the best performance. Using iron rods in this arrangement is similar to a laminated core (like a screen door for electrons...ha ha).
A FET transistor would be a better choice for the coil driver- fast switching with low loss.
As for the diode, any general purpose switching diode should work.

Like I said earlier, this is just a 'thought experiment', and I've never actually tried to build one, but I've made quite a few Bedini, Adams and other similar types of motors successfully.

Little DC motors will generate electricity, but finding the best motor for this type of application may take some digging- plus the correct ratio between the rotor diameter and the generator (motor) output will be tricky to figure out.

The biggest problem I see with ANY attempt at overunity is when a real load is put on the device, there will not be enough power to keep going. It may run itself, but that would be like a dog chasing its tail-

good luck

BTW, in my original description, I said the dc generator (motor) will spin 4-5 times faster than the outer magnets, but what I mean is there will be 4-5 more times the TORQUE on the generator (motor) than the outside of the rotor. My bad.

Hi Pinestone,

Can you illustrate exactly how the coils in your diamram are connected into this circuit. I need to know where L1 and L2 start as in and leave as out.The larger more windings being green less windings being red.

Thanks, Tom

windings

pinestone · « **Reply #201 on:** September 10, 2009, 07:44:46 PM »

magnetman12003

A simple transformer-type coupling uses the primary and secondary wound around the same core.
It's easier to wind two seperate coils instead of winding them bi-filar, like a Bedini circuit uses.

The reason for using a bi-filar wound coil is to eliminate inductance by connecting both coils out of phase with each other, but that may not be necessary in this circuit.

This type of arrangement should work:

magnetman12003 · « **Reply #202 on:** September 12, 2009, 08:52:17 PM »

Whats the advantage of making the iron core of the coil 1/2 inch in diameter verses making it 3/4 inch in diameter?

I would think a smaller iron core would concentrate a magnetic field better providing it has not reached saturation.

pinestone · « **Reply #203 on:** September 13, 2009, 10:24:02 PM »

Quote from: magnetman12003 on September 12, 2009, 08:52:17 PM

Whats the advantage of making the iron core of the coil 1/2 inch in diameter verses making it 3/4 inch in diameter?

I would think a smaller iron core would concentrate a magnetic field better providing it has not reached saturation.

It's not a matter of concentrating the field, it's the hysteresis that's important. This is something you will have to experiment with. Small cores result in a faster hysteresis and a lesser gain of inductance over the bare coil.

Here's a power transformer Bedini i made a while ago- It has a giant core !

Ergo · « **Reply #204 on:** September 14, 2009, 12:53:05 PM »

Quote from: pinestone on September 13, 2009, 10:24:02 PM

Here's a power transformer Bedini i made a while ago- It has a giant core !

Small or Giant core doesn't matter!!!. It isn't overunity.....Right!!!

There has never been any Bedini motor being overunity. This tech is a dead end to investigate.
In the case there is an report on OU there is no way to confirm anything. Mostly due to the
inventor being impossible to meet or willing to let others take measurements on his contrapment.
When there is an followup, the Bedini has always been proven not OU, and the inventor has to
face he's lacking all basic "know how" regarding proper and well defined measurement techniques.

pinestone · « **Reply #205 on:** September 14, 2009, 02:01:20 PM »

Quote from: Ergo on September 14, 2009, 12:53:05 PM

Small or Giant core!!!. But isn't overunity.....Right!!!

There has never been any Bedini motor being overunity. This tech is a dead end to investigate.
In the case there is an report on OU there is no way to confirm anything. Most due to the
inventor being impossible to meet or willing to let others take measurements on his contrapment.
When there is an followup, the device is always proven not OU and the inventor proven to
lack all basic "know how" regarding proper and well defined measurement techniques.

What are you going on about? I'm not claiming overunity with this experiment !
It's a discussion about coil cores and hysteresis- this is just an example of a huge core.

READ EVERYTHING- not just the last post...

Ergo · « **Reply #206 on:** September 14, 2009, 02:08:21 PM »

The purpose at this forum is overunity.
I just wonder why people continue to investigate the same non OU devices over and over?
Don't they read what others have found before trying the same thing again and again.

pinestone · « **Reply #207 on:** September 14, 2009, 02:28:45 PM »

Quote from: Ergo on September 14, 2009, 02:08:21 PM

The purpose at this forum is overunity.
I just wonder why people continue to investigate the same non OU devices over and over?
Don't they read what others have found before trying the same thing again and again.

What else do you want to do with your spare time on this planet? Watch TV? Listen to music? Drink? Fu*k?
What's wrong with pursuing the 'so-called' impossible?

History is littered with failures, but also with great discoveries. Space travel being the first that comes to my mind. Atomic energy, gene splicing, lasers, breaking Moores law, etc.
Each were thought to be impossible at one time or another.

Besides, I've never claimed OU- it's just a thought experiment.

magnetman12003 · « **Reply #208 on:** September 16, 2009, 06:34:20 AM »

Pinestone--

I love your thinking process. I have been at this for years and made hundreds of motor devices that wound up as failures. That does not bother me a bit. I just like to do this as a hobby of interest and keep my mind from going Alzheimer's.
Maybe I might even get lucky and discover something new. Even if what I construct is not overunity I will do it differently than what I have seen.

Tom

pinestone · « **Reply #209 on:** September 16, 2009, 07:12:23 AM »

Quote from: magnetman12003 on September 16, 2009, 06:34:20 AM

Pinestone--

I love your thinking process. I have been at this for years and made hundreds of motor devices that wound up as failures...
Tom

Thanks for the compliment, Tom

I've been at this for a while, too. Since the mid 1960's. I've worked in many phases of the electronics industry as a technician and in R&D.

But I still love playing with magnets.

You know what they say? "If you haven't failed, you're not trying"

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Author Topic: New youtube of magnet/coil "perpetual motion" (Read 123487 times)

pinestone

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Ergo

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