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Author Topic: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION  (Read 3509162 times)

MrMag

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #960 on: March 07, 2011, 03:38:06 AM »
Tesla usually showed a generator as his source of power. If you built one today, you would use a high voltage transformer so your input frequency would be 50/60 Hz. The spark gap is generating the high frequency pulses that need to be removed by the chokes to protect the transformer.


And no, I'm not you. That is just tito trying to confuse people again.

Magluvin

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #961 on: March 07, 2011, 03:40:32 AM »
And what harm would the rf do to the transformer?

Mags

Magluvin

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #962 on: March 07, 2011, 03:46:27 AM »
Tesla usually showed a generator as his source of power. If you built one today, you would use a high voltage transformer so your input frequency would be 50/60 Hz. The spark gap is generating the high frequency pulses that need to be removed by the chokes to protect the transformer.


And no, I'm not you. That is just tito trying to confuse people again.

I know your not me. And you know Im not you.    2-Mags  0-Titioso


I can see that if you didnt want what ever is happening on the cap and output side, not to be affected by the input sec.  But I just dont see the issue with the transformer being damaged by rf.  If it wouldnt make it through the 2 chokes, why would it enter a high inductance sec?

Just constructive conversation,  and no argument. ;]

Mags

MrMag

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #963 on: March 07, 2011, 04:09:09 AM »
Yeah no problem,

I'm not completely sure what the high frequency would do to the transformer but a good guess is that it would probably burn out or short. The high frequency current usually runs on the outside of the wire (skin effect) whereas the 50/60 Hz would run inside the wire. Since the wire in the transformer is sized to carrier a specific current limit at 50/60 Hz, the the high frequency would be an issue.

As far as your second post, I'm not totally following you on your statement. Let me give it one more try, maybe I'm not explaining it clearly.
The way I see it is that the transformer is running at 60Hz. Input is 110VAC output 10,000VAC @60Hz. The HV would continue to be at 60Hz. What is generating the high frequency is the rotary spark gap. The chokes will not effect the 60Hz going to the spark gap but it will quench the high frequency generated at the spark gap from working it's way back to the secondary windings.

I hope that is what you were asking.

Magluvin

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #964 on: March 07, 2011, 04:15:40 AM »
I get what your saying.   To your knowledge, was all of teslas ac gens working at 60hz?

I know he used dc also.

Mags

MrMag

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #965 on: March 07, 2011, 05:31:05 AM »
Sorry, I don't have a clue what frequencies he used. Yes, he did us AC and DC. I think the frequency back then was 50Hz so the common generator would of been that. But when it comes to Tesla, who knows. He was always trying to increase the frequency so I wouldn't put it past him to rewire a generator to give him a higher frequency.

slapper

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #966 on: March 07, 2011, 05:49:54 AM »
I think many are starting to experience the advantages to coil shorting.

The advantage to hitting the peaks is you are starting at the higher
potentials to begin with so the outcomes are higher.

The higher the rate of change that can be expressed across the coil the more
potential there is for the coil to receive a multiple of frequencies limited
by the coil and surrounding environment. The higher the voltage is across the
gap, usually, the higher the rate of change. The higher the dv/dt the higher
the potential frequencies and voltage across the coil.

The components to these frequencies come from the rising edge that the coil
experiences. I think fourier shows this but it has been a while.

The first spark gap immediately following the secondary in the illustrations
is a source for these high frequency waves. The spark gap is a broadband
transmitter. The higher the frequencies the higher the voltage. The higher
frequencies, and by their nature higher voltages, are bypassed through the
caps across lower impedance coils. But to the higher frequency waves this
lower impedance loop appears relatively high since their frequencies are so
high.

My part of the images were to illustrate that there may be advantages
to adding another spark gap somewhere across part of the stout inductor loop
or coil.

By connecting a second spark gap this way a primary to an autotransformer
is basically created since part of the conductor is getting 'shorted' out
when there is a jump across the coil. The remainder of the stout conductor
loop or coil acts like the secondary to the autotransformer at these lower
wavelengths and that is where even higher voltages are achieved since we
are starting with the higher voltages and higher frequency components to
begin with.

This 2nd spark gap would have the potential to produce even higher frequencies
at even higher voltages.

My guess is that the shorter wavelengths serve to cancel out the eddys between
the coil windings but I think we only can see this during high rates of change.
So the more rapid and repetitive use of the spark gap the better since by doing
so more of these rates of change are being offered to the conductor. That is
for this application. That is the way I'm thinking on this. Rotary works better.

Perhaps a more coherent field is created with a mix of these broadband components?

The high frequency waves will be greatly attenuated through the chokes or
higher impedance secondary coil. However, and especially at these high
potentials and frequencies, there will be a variation to these potentials
over time. The higher the voltages and the higher the frequencies the more
variation there is over a shorter amount of time. What will find its way back
to the primary is lower voltage at lower frequencies.

Just some thoughts.

Take care.

nap

Tito L. Oracion

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #967 on: March 07, 2011, 06:33:57 AM »
Tesla usually showed a generator as his source of power. If you built one today, you would use a high voltage transformer so your input frequency would be 50/60 Hz. The spark gap is generating the high frequency pulses that need to be removed by the chokes to protect the transformer.


And no, I'm not you. That is just tito trying to confuse people again.

Me again!  >:(

maybe i'm wrong about your not him and he is not you but it is your name who is confusable  ;D

it is not my intention to confuse everyone it is only you saying that!!! i did not say that your wrong what i said is that they are not only for protection.

 >:(

Why tesla still made patented that drawing with chokes and spark gap?
i think your more genious than tesla and then that thing is needed to be modify ;D

Tito L. Oracion

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #968 on: March 07, 2011, 10:05:37 AM »
I think both of you guys are nuts. If you want to read more into the functions of these rf chokes, so be it. I thought you would like to know why they are in the circuit. I guess your not use to hearing the truth in this thread. With all of the confusing and misleading information being spread by tito in this thread, no wonder your confused. So, I guess with your logic, every circuit that contain an inductor, the inductor is used to boost the voltage. Tito is a great teacher.

Hey mr.Amag why are you accusing me of spreading confusion and misleading info in this thread?!!!!!  >:(

b4 you accuse, prove first!!!!!

you are free to make correction but be careful!

you desperate genious!

>:(
 :-\

Tito L. Oracion

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #969 on: March 07, 2011, 10:22:41 AM »
Sorry, I don't have a clue what frequencies he used. Yes, he did us AC and DC. I think the frequency back then was 50Hz so the common generator would of been that. But when it comes to Tesla, who knows. He was always trying to increase the frequency so I wouldn't put it past him to rewire a generator to give him a higher frequency.

If your not sure don't be so sure  ;D

you have a lot of maybe or who knows  ;D

so, you think?

if somebody made an accident because of not sure then you have to be accuse.  ;D

« Last Edit: March 07, 2011, 10:48:37 AM by Tito L. Oracion »

MrMag

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #970 on: March 07, 2011, 03:01:52 PM »
Me again!  >:(

maybe i'm wrong about your not him and he is not you but it is your name who is confusable  ;D

it is not my intention to confuse everyone it is only you saying that!!! i did not say that your wrong what i said is that they are not only for protection.
 >:(
Why tesla still made patented that drawing with chokes and spark gap?
i think your more genious than tesla and then that thing is needed to be modify ;D

It may not be your intention to confuse but that is the result.
I am not sure about your second comment here. Why did Tesla make the patent with chokes and spark gap?
Maybe he just wanted to share, I don't think he was a greedy man like some people, he shared his discoveries.
No, I'm not more genius then Tesla, I'm not even good enough to even carry his tools.

Hey mr.Amag why are you accusing me of spreading confusion and misleading info in this thread?!!!!!  >:(

b4 you accuse, prove first!!!!!

you are free to make correction but be careful!

you desperate genious!

>:(
 :-\

Because your clues and riddles just confuse people. I know english is not your first language. Sometimes you are hard to understand when you talk straight let alone speak in riddles.

B4 you claim free energy, prove first!!!!!

I don't know what you mean in the last two comments. I've been called a lot of things but never a desperate genious. I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or trying to suck up. Hopefully, your just being sarcastic.

If your not sure don't be so sure  ;D

you have a lot of maybe or who knows  ;D

so, you think?

if somebody made an accident because of not sure then you have to be accuse.  ;D
I don't know everything and have never claimed anything. It was just a statement of what I thought regarding his question. If I am not 100% sure of something, I will say so. I think it is wrong for someone to claim something without being able to show proof of it. A lesson you should learn Tito.
We are not children here. Some people do act like it, you know the " I have something you don't" kind of thing. If I make a statement saying maybe, I think, or I'm not sure, it means exactly that. I am not telling people to do something so your comment doesn't make sense.

wattsup

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #971 on: March 07, 2011, 04:21:55 PM »
The feed transformer is either a step up or step down and is not important because it could also be a simple dc feed from a battery. The idea is those two "chokes" are required and are matched to the capacitors. Why are there so many capacitors? Because he uses smaller capacitors so achieving the total capacitance is less expensive then if you had only one capacitor. All that is matched. These are probably only 10 uf each, so 6 capacitors to one inductor on each side of the make/break. That makes for some very interesting discharge effects.

So if the energy in the system can be brought down to one common denominator which would be joules, then maybe one of the guys that has good EE math skills can make a few calculations.

The question is this. If you have a 400 volts 10uf capacitor times six in parallel, how many joules can you store into them? Then, what coil inductance would be required to store the same amount of energy? Then how many turns of a coil of x awg is required to obtain that inductive equivalent in joules ? This will give you a better picture of the device and what is required to make it run at optimal levels.

wattsup

PS: Please, let's just stop the word plays.

Magluvin

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #972 on: March 07, 2011, 07:11:42 PM »
I suppose I could have left Titos thinking that I was MrMag, but just wanted to clear that up. Still not sure if I did. :P

As for the "chokes", I still think they are an extension of the sec of the input transformer. I would be willing to bet that the output, regardless of the other circuitry, of the sec of the input trans, will have different qualities than with just the sec alone. And being that the "chokes are in series with the sec, the sec has to play a part in the role that the "choke"s play also. And then the transformer itself, core(?) primary, will also play a part.
I may agree that the "chokes" may keep the "rf" from getting back to the transformer, but I think they have a more dutiful place in how much, as in more, gets from the sec to the caps.

After a lot of reading lately, especially Ottos letter and Loners experience recently, I dont know if I want to go this route. It seems unsafe.  I am working on some more passive ideas that I hope will work out without all the rf emissions and who knows what.  Even JimBoot was getting bad vibes from his Ossie motor.  Dang, is it all hazardous?

Tesla laid claim of different freq, some this some that, some safe. But for the time period, do we know for sure.

But as for the chokes, been pondering how to show that they more or less boost the sec output, by the "chokes" being inductors, I believe they help Flywheel the charge into the caps, like my precharge circuit I have shown that charges the cap from a battery to nearly 2 times the bat voltage and its just a bat, coil, diode, cap and switch in series. Lose the coil, then no output greater than the bat voltage into the cap.

Could the sec of the input trans be made to substitute the sec with chokes?  Not if the primary was only intended to power the sec, and the 2 inductors play their part as intended.

I will try to come up with something to show what I mean.  ;]


Mags



Tito L. Oracion

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #973 on: March 08, 2011, 02:47:03 AM »
ok MR.mag. so proof is the only thing you want?

one of these days i will show some proof.  :)

only still didn't experience yet how to upload a video, don't worry i will try.
 
;D


 

Magluvin

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #974 on: March 08, 2011, 04:16:37 AM »
If your not sure don't be so sure  ;D

you have a lot of maybe or who knows  ;D

so, you think?

if somebody made an accident because of not sure then you have to be accuse.  ;D


Im only going to say this, and I mean it in a good way.  ;)  Lets call it a learning experience.  ;)

Tito,  read your post above. It was after you insisted that I was MrMags. Were YOU sure, had PROOF that I was he?  That is hypocritical.

Common man. Be a Man and just be normal.  ok?   ;)    You may feel attacked, but others feel left behind in something you started.  Make sense?   8)  Just be cool and we all will have good conversation here.  :-* 

Im cool   8)   chillin

Mags