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Author Topic: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION  (Read 2601512 times)

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #690 on: December 11, 2010, 01:52:57 AM »
Forest, if you can, please try to display only two full cycles of the waveform, and let's see if your scope resolves the fast rise of the spike.
Next, you can expand the time scale even more, to zero in on just the spike portion of a single cycle, to see if the scope can make a visible trace as the signal voltage shoots up (or down).
You are missing a lot of detail of your circuit's performance hidden in the spikes, where your scope just shows a blank discontinuity right now.

You can estimate the length of wire in the sealed coil in a couple of ways. First you can measure accurately the coil's DC resistance and compute the length of winding wire from that---if you can get an accurate and precise resistance measurement.
Or, if you have a good signal generator, you can sweep the coil's primary and monitor the voltage on the secondary, looking for a resonant peak. The biggest resonant voltage rise will occur at a wavelength 4 times the length of the coil's winding, adjusted somewhat for the core of the coil. So the wire length will be roughly 1/4 the wavelength of the frequency that excites the largest resonant voltage rise in the secondary.

Why do you need to know the length anyway? To find the resonances empirically is always easier for me...my calculations are usually wrong anyway.

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #690 on: December 11, 2010, 01:52:57 AM »

Offline forest

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #691 on: December 11, 2010, 11:18:04 AM »
Thanks TinselKoala

Precisely I'd like to find 1/4 wavelength for this coil ;-)
but I have only impulse square wave generator 1Hz-10Mhz and do not know wire diameter inside coil.
How can I find where voltage on output is maximum ? Cannot use scope because it will burn it from HV
My scope is very old and I have no experience,I haven't found a way to scope only two full cycles of waveform, there is only a way to trigger once (instead of automatic)  but I've never make it to work for me - in theory what it should show me ?
I'm trying to use ordinary parts to make Tesla coil with all Tesla comments in my mind.
Another question is how to shift phase of input oscillator according to the +DC sinus of RLC circuit so it will break it exactly at the peak of RLC wave ? Can scope properly display phase relations between two channels inputs in chopper mode ?

Offline Magluvin

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #692 on: December 11, 2010, 03:51:00 PM »
Hey Forest

What he is saying is, you can use the signal gen to apply a signal, and the scope, to find that freq, and from that you can determine the length of the sec.   

But I think I know what your concerns are with hv.     I believe he is saying to just apply the sig to the sec, not the primary, to test the sec for 1/4 wave freq.  I cannot say for sure that if you did hook up the sig gen at very low input to the primary, that the sec may still output hv.  But probably.  If 12v can produce 15 to 20 kv   then 1v in can produce 1 to 2kv.  Even at very low input current, at certain freq.

I would say to just apply the sig gen to the sec, and measure across that with the scope, then sweep.  You will see that some freq will provide high points and low.  As TK says,  the highest point will be your target freq, and then calculate for length.  =]

I have seen diagrams of the internals shown as the common end of the sec connected to the + of the primary, and others show the common of the sec to the neg of the pri.    I have tried to measure the coil that I have with my meter to determine which, and my wavetek  is accurate to .01 ohm, but the sec resistance is to high, and the difference in adding the primary in series, I cannot tell for sure on my coil.   

I would try both + and - for the sec test to note a difference if any.  =]


Mags

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #692 on: December 11, 2010, 03:51:00 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #693 on: December 12, 2010, 12:43:43 AM »
Hi forest,

You could make a coupling coil with a few turns (say 5-10 turns only, self supporting 1mm dia enameled copper wire, coil OD say 2cm) and connect to this coil your scope probe.  Then place this coupling coil near to the top end of you HV coil say a few cm away and start sweeping from the very low frequencies, gradually up and up till you get the first big voltage maximum on the scope, then continue exploring the higher frequencies where else may give newer big amplitudes etc. 
This way your detuning effect is the smallest possible and when you find a big voltage maximum try to reposition your coil probe further away to further reduce any loading on the HV coil due to em coupling and always  RETUNE finely your generator if the repositioning may have caused some detuning.  This is a tiresome and time robbing procedure for sure.

rgds, Gyula

Offline TEKTRON

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #694 on: December 12, 2010, 05:26:50 AM »
Something I thought of that doesnt make sense to me.

Considering a transformer, lets say step down,  say 10 to 1,  with 100v in and 10v out.
If ya think about it, on the secondary, the voltage is stepped down, less motive force, less pressure, yet the amperage capability is relatively high.  Or the other way around, 100v, high pressure, but low current content.  Sounds like something is wrong here.  I just really never looked at it that way before. Sounds like basic info, but when we consider the pressure(voltage) capabilities in each situation, something doesnt seem right.

Is it only related to the AWG size of the wire for the pri and sec? 

If we looked at a step up as if it were gears and the teeth were turns, The sec, larger gear with more teeth, has more pressure, force, voltage, and low current, low current as in the gear moves slow, things are moving slow on that side, where as the smaller gear, the primary, can be driven with little pressure, voltage, but great amount of movement, current.

I dunno.   It seems as if there were a way to make a transformer that had gain, we may be able to apply that idea to gears in some fashion.   weird

I just have these crazy visions of it has to be done another way.   Its like havin a name you cant recall on the tip of your tongue.   

Mags

Mags, Agent Gates thread was topic 8586.
I'm new to the boards and electronics. Ive been playing the SIM and screwed around with the transformer specs. I really feel that you can NOT trust the results at all. Unless I accidentally fell into a perfectly tuned OVER UNITY circuit. ~500x unity!!! 2w in 1kw out. What do Ya'll think???

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #694 on: December 12, 2010, 05:26:50 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #695 on: December 12, 2010, 06:38:46 AM »
Hey Tek
If you notice, the scope that shows input has a negative scale, of which is reading 13kw, so the sim  doesnt really show fault in producing ou as it isnt there in the circuit.  I have one that is 11w in and 15kw out, havnt found any fault in it and it worked as imagined for the outcome. =]


Mags

Offline TEKTRON

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #696 on: December 12, 2010, 06:54:39 AM »
Hey Tek
If you notice, the scope that shows input has a negative scale, of which is reading 13kw, so the sim  doesnt really show fault in producing ou as it isnt there in the circuit.  I have one that is 11w in and 15kw out, havnt found any fault in it and it worked as imagined for the outcome. =]


Mags
Hey Tek
If you notice, the scope that shows input has a negative scale, of which is reading 13kw, so the sim  doesnt really show fault in producing ou as it isnt there in the circuit.  I have one that is 11w in and 15kw out, havnt found any fault in it and it worked as imagined for the outcome. =]


Mags


Not to diss.... please show me so can learn...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #696 on: December 12, 2010, 06:54:39 AM »
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Offline TEKTRON

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #697 on: December 12, 2010, 08:00:53 AM »
Teets!    CRON?

Is that where you use iron wire as a core and it is also the secondary coil?


I had the pat from 1907 last night and I lost it, no history, cant find.  I remember it was called a converter  as they did back then and the pat is from Philadelphia pa.

It had shown , like I saw in a tesla pat, a coil of wire(iron) with copper coil around it like a toroid, and it had shown other examples.

Mags


Mags, There is a neat little prog called ZTREE, I use it all the time. it is a file handler, the best thing since sliced bread! Configured and used correctly , it is very powerful. Can FIND ,manipulate and organize ANY FILE. It can even be used outside of the operating system (using Ultimate Boot CD) IF IT IS ON YOUR DRIVE and you know kind of what you are looking for ....DOS feel.. ZTREE.COM(PC&MAC and others if used with U-boot cd.) ;)

Offline Magluvin

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #698 on: December 13, 2010, 05:47:22 AM »
Tek

Here is a sim of 12w in to 1kw out using Teslas Igniter pat circuit.  Its source is 2.5v

I will be trying to achieve this using the trisil as the switch.  The key will be to have the inductor on the source to flywheel enough to load the cap to the break over voltage of the trisil.   So the trisil will only stay on for a very short period, so it will depend on the inductor as to if that time is enough to get it going to load the cap to the break over voltage.
Just trying to eliminate the switch.  =]


Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #698 on: December 13, 2010, 05:47:22 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #699 on: December 13, 2010, 07:35:54 AM »
Something that needs to be said about the sims.  This one in particular, where it is either the igniter or ozone circuit, they are the same. Being that there is some hype as to the ozone pat being capable of OU, and also the igniter, but maybe less recognized as so, it is very peculiar that I can produce OU in the sim with this circuit. And quite a good amount of it, not just a smiggin or a sprinkle, we are talking about 100 times out vs in.  Margin of error?    ;]

The more I mess with the sim and this setup, I am feeling more in tune with what is going on, and what needs to be adjusted next to better the output.   Im finding it very hard to believe that the sim is so far off.

Im going to write Falstad to see if he can maybe help us with this, as he may be able to tell us if it is an anomaly that cannot equal real life.  Or maybe if he finds it interesting enough, to develop the program a bit further, as in defining air core vs iron or even ferrites. Sidacs Trisils. Motors and bifilars.    Things that we might want that is not in the sim lib.
Dunno, just thinking.

Mags

Offline Tenbatsu

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #700 on: December 13, 2010, 07:40:27 AM »
Mags,

Have you tried to reproduce this test in another sim program?

If you are able to reproduce this effect in more than one sim it would greatly help to corroborate your theory.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #700 on: December 13, 2010, 07:40:27 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #701 on: December 13, 2010, 07:52:20 AM »
Hey Ten

Will do.  I suppose there is Spice, and, any suggestions?

Mags

Offline IWD

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #702 on: December 13, 2010, 10:04:42 AM »
You guys are kiding, right? did you hear ever, about middle value of current?? voltage and power?? how it is calculate? there is not need another simulation to know there is no OU. And even whats more, you forget to simulate ohmic resistance of primary windings.

Offline Magluvin

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #703 on: December 13, 2010, 01:36:08 PM »
hmm   Iwd

Kidding?  no

Do we not want a primary of very low ohms?   I will add the tiny resistance for you, but will you be satisfied?   Bah,  why do you read this thread?  Why read this site?


Mags

Offline IWD

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Re: ENERGY AMPLIFICATION
« Reply #704 on: December 13, 2010, 03:14:36 PM »
Resistivity of primary windings is only another small mistake what I see.

Main problem which I was want to warn, is that you calculate with spikes not with real power ..the middle value. And you want to solve it as big thing.(maybe falstad will explain it to you better than me, but point is same.)
And I just want to save you time. That is one of many reasons why I am reading and posting on this forum. Because right now, nobody else is doing it in this thread.
The one of biggest weapon of man kind, is ability of re-giving knowledge, by many ways.
If we do not do that, then we are on same level like animals.
Because everybody who want to research something, can start from point where somebody else finished. If the inventor leave his knowledge for himself, then anybody else must start from begining, and then is almost no progres forward.(like we can see it in previous century)
Of course there must be same technical language for transfer knowledge, or inventors will do not understand with each other.(Like we can see it in many threads.)
For that reason, is there a classical doctrine about electricity. Anybody can learn the basic, you do not need learn complex pattern to undesstand. Just basic, so you can describe something and anybody else will know what you talking about.

There is many people on forum which is able to share his discoveries, and you Mags, are one of them. You can see threads where people have at least little propriety.... so they show up what actualy doing, and these people are inspiring hunderts of folowers and researchers and people are really encouraged to do something.
Of course, If you will soooooooo proud on you discoveries like Tito, then there is just few people whicih is doing something, and rigth now, it is just you Mags, so...answer for you question is...I am here because you.

« Last Edit: December 13, 2010, 03:44:03 PM by IWD »

 

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