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News announcements and other topics => News => Topic started by: magpie on February 05, 2009, 04:59:48 AM

Title: Magnetic Rotation in the Rodin Coil - was the Bell really a myth after all?
Post by: magpie on February 05, 2009, 04:59:48 AM
Hello all,

Like many, I have been intrigued by the stories of the Nazi Bell that rotated mercury inside of a toroidal coil of sorts...
Well that is interesting but how do we know if it was real? 
I decided to do a test myself today by placing a minuscule N50 magnet (D101-N50 from K&J) inside one of my Rodin Coils. I connected a 12 Volt low current power supply (you can see it in my youtube vids) and sure enough, the magnet went around and around! It wasn't wizzing around at light speed but the voltage and current are low, also interesting the coil seemed to run more coolly with the magnet rotating inside.
I should point out that it is odd for an electromagnetic coil using DC to have a rotating field and especially odd for a magnet with POLES to rotate instead of sticking to part of the coil.
BTW, the magnet skipped along as if it was trying to get off the ground into the centre of the coil, I tried the test with much bigger magnets and they did get stuck after less than a complete circuit so power to weight is obviously important to allow rotation in the magnetic "band".

Build a Rodin Coil yourself and do the tests to see, I have placed videos on Youtube demonstrating how to build one so why not have a go?  ;)

How to build a Rodin Coil part 1:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY8jsRmxAzo

How to build a Rodin Coil part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP5_ShzJcW8
Title: Re: Magnetic Rotation in the Rodin Coil - was the Bell really a myth after all?
Post by: Dave45 on February 05, 2009, 01:46:33 PM
interesting, inject mercury inside the donut
Title: Re: Magnetic Rotation in the Rodin Coil - was the Bell really a myth after all?
Post by: turbo on February 05, 2009, 02:00:20 PM
Here is a PDF about the Marko Rodin Coil.  :)

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=item229 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=item229)

And the work of Stan Deyo seems to be related as can be seen in this PDF.  :)

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=item230 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=item230)

Marco.
Title: Re: Magnetic Rotation in the Rodin Coil - was the Bell really a myth after all?
Post by: magpie on February 05, 2009, 04:50:40 PM
Currently I don't have enough mercury readily available but I do have powdered Bismuth on its way to make a suspension to place inside the coil.
Title: Re: Magnetic Rotation in the Rodin Coil - was the Bell really a myth after all?
Post by: Yucca on February 05, 2009, 09:50:48 PM
@Magpie,

Great video demos, You´ve made some nice Rodin coils! If I see similar plastic torus next time I´m in a toy store I will buy a set and wind some.

I´ve watched Rodins vids on youtube and I enjoyed them very much.

RE. the spinning magnet test:
Very intersting result, DC coil stator, permanent mag rotor, and it rotates!! I have a feeling that such rotation will be Lenz free.

(Q)
I realise the D101-N50 is vey tiny at only one sixteenth inch diameter but would it be possible for you to test further by constraining your magnet on an axle? This will remove the possibility of the magnet rolling around on its rim as it bounces around the field maximum in the centre. Maybe you could glue it to a pin and then make a small U bracket out of aluminium drink can metal with a hole in one arm and a dimple in the other, then perhaps with thin oil it will be free enough.
Title: Re: Magnetic Rotation in the Rodin Coil - was the Bell really a myth after all?
Post by: PYRODIN123321 on February 05, 2009, 10:00:17 PM
hey, you can get a good bit of mercury from old thermostats you might even try just obtaining the mercury switches....

peace
Title: Re: Magnetic Rotation in the Rodin Coil - was the Bell really a myth after all?
Post by: Creativity on February 07, 2009, 12:39:16 AM
mercury is too toxic to experiment without a good ventilation!. I would advise trying first with some ferrofluids or some metal scraps suspended in oil.
 If u choose mercury i strongly recommend to buy or build(not so expensive and difficult as it may look) dygestorium. Ok i don't know English name for it ,maybe fume digestor(?). Anyhow it looks like this:

http://www.donserv.com.pl/images/img/acentm.jpg

and it is used to remove toxic fumes from the space where chemical reactions take place. It is in every chemical laboratory.
Years ago i was playing a bit with chemistry.I made dygestorium from an old cupboard and vacuum cleaner.I cut out the holes for my hands and placed a small glass to see what i am doing.From the hole in the side of the cupboard fumes were sucked out with vacuum cleaner.Inside i installed a small lamp and electric socket.I sealed everything with silicon.Vacuum cleaner was dumping fumes outside of my garage. Total cost won't be higher than 50E,good health insurance i say :)!
I really advise u to take mercury vapours seriously!It is for ur health.

Have fun!
Title: Re: Magnetic Rotation in the Rodin Coil - was the Bell really a myth after all?
Post by: magpie on February 07, 2009, 03:09:25 AM
@Magpie,

(Q)
I realise the D101-N50 is vey tiny at only one sixteenth inch diameter but would it be possible for you to test further by constraining your magnet on an axle? This will remove the possibility of the magnet rolling around on its rim as it bounces around the field maximum in the centre. Maybe you could glue it to a pin and then make a small U bracket out of aluminium drink can metal with a hole in one arm and a dimple in the other, then perhaps with thin oil it will be free enough.

Hi Yucca,

The Rodin coil seems to produce rotation on more than one axis, in this case I meant the magnet was actually inside the toroid (I drilled a hole in the plastic), I forget the name of the field but it proves that the coil also has an internal field.
If you place a magnet in the centre of the coil(I mean the big hole in the torus), a magnet will also rotate, in this case even a much larger magnet will rotate. This is the part of the coil where the strong vortex effect occurs, it happens with both AC and DC. Interestingly though, the coil will behave like a normal electromagnet if you connect only one of the two coils to DC - a magnet will stick to it-, however if both coils are connected to DC the vortex effect occurs and the magnet jumps around until it bounces out. I suspect this effect is due to an interaction between the two coils causing a continuation of the initial AC spike when the coil is connected.
I think it might be smarter to work with pulsed or just straight DC as I can't tell if AC just causes a tidy vortex or confusion.

I tried placing a diametrically magnetized magnet on an axis and in the centre of the coil and it did not rotate as expected, I also tried it with axially magnetized magnets and I did get rotation when I found a sweet spot but it was slow and difficult to keep in position.

I don't think this coil should be approached like a normal electromagnet, from multiple test I am confident that it makes a vortex but if you think about it, the shape of the magnets should correspond to the shape of the vortex to work properly. I think that to build a motor with this coil you would need two cones, facing each other tip to tip with magnets placed on them in a spiral pattern. Maybe conical magnets would work, only one way to find out :) make one yourself.

The great thing about the Rodin coil is that it is not difficult to build and do experiments on...

Title: Re: Magnetic Rotation in the Rodin Coil - was the Bell really a myth after all?
Post by: magpie on February 07, 2009, 03:18:11 AM
mercury is too toxic to experiment without a good ventilation!. I would advise trying first with some ferrofluids or some metal scraps suspended in oil.
 If u choose mercury i strongly recommend to buy or build(not so expensive and difficult as it may look) dygestorium. Ok i don't know English name for it ,maybe fume digestor(?). Anyhow it looks like this:

http://www.donserv.com.pl/images/img/acentm.jpg

Hi Creativity,

Yes, mercury is nasty stuff, I think you are referring to some sort of enclosed fume hood?

Mercury is supposed to be diamagnetic but I did some tests on a small amount and found that its diamagnetism was too weak to be observable, this may be why the Bell required so much electricity to run.
I placed a small amount of mercury inside a toroidal coil at a low current and voltage and nothing happened, judging from my test placing a tiny magnet inside the Rodin coil, the diamagnetic material needs to be extremely light to move smoothly. Mercury is not light so you would need a diamagnetic vapour or possibly a plasmoid.
I am going to make a colloidal suspension using powdered Bismuth, I hope this works because Bismuth is the most diamagnetic element know and creating a suspension of it would in effect make it "light", even is slightly difficult to move in the fluid..
Title: Re: Magnetic Rotation in the Rodin Coil - was the Bell really a myth after all?
Post by: Jonnys007 on February 13, 2009, 07:10:49 AM
i was wondering ... has anyone jacked up a tesla coil to the rodin coil?  if the voltage is low that your guys are putting in.. then put in a alot of voltage and see wat happens.. utilizing both winds.. the magnetic field should infact be alot more powerful...  possibly might even counteract the force of gravity?.. who knows
Title: Re: Magnetic Rotation in the Rodin Coil - was the Bell really a myth after all?
Post by: triffid on June 16, 2009, 01:55:25 PM
Creativity,your dygestorium(in English) is called a "chemical hood with negative air pressure".That means air flows to it taking the bad fumes with it to an outside area and away from your lungs.I used to work with them in school and at the hospital.Your homemade hood is an inspiration too.
Triffid
Title: Re: Magnetic Rotation in the Rodin Coil - was the Bell really a myth after all?
Post by: innovation_station on June 16, 2009, 04:24:36 PM
MURCURY IS DEADLY .... DUH!

WAKE UP !!

LOL

HOW DID BRUCE DE PULMA DIE ......   MURCURY POISIONING .....  SHEESH 

GREAT IDEA  FOLKS .....      >:(


WHY DONT YOU JUST DRINK THE MURCURY ...  ;)

IST!   

Title: Re: Magnetic Rotation in the Rodin Coil - was the Bell really a myth after all?
Post by: Paul-R on June 16, 2009, 05:06:22 PM
The ancient indian vimamas were supposed to have used mercury in
some sort of boiling scenario. a Mercury ion propulsion system was
also suggested.

What about that ferrofluid, magnetic liquid, sold on Ebay?
Title: Re: Magnetic Rotation in the Rodin Coil - was the Bell really a myth after all?
Post by: PYRODIN123321 on June 16, 2009, 05:45:26 PM
there other metals that are liquid at practical working temps. gallium

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkPOjTizgco
Title: Re: Magnetic Rotation in the Rodin Coil - was the Bell really a myth after all?
Post by: gravityblock on June 16, 2009, 09:41:11 PM
MURCURY IS DEADLY .... DUH!

WAKE UP !!

LOL

HOW DID BRUCE DE PULMA DIE ......   MURCURY POISIONING .....  SHEESH 

GREAT IDEA  FOLKS .....      >:(


WHY DONT YOU JUST DRINK THE MURCURY ...  ;)

IST!

Mercury is dangerous?  Then why they put it in our vaccines.

Fluoride is dangerous to ingest according to the warning label on the toothpaste tube.  Then why they put the fluoride in our water supply to ingest?

Don't make much sense to me, but yet everyone is running to get a vaccination with mercury and to drink the fluoridated water.  But it's too dangerous to experiment with.  LOL

This kind of thinking is not right at all.

Title: Re: Magnetic Rotation in the Rodin Coil - was the Bell really a myth after all?
Post by: PYRODIN123321 on June 16, 2009, 11:56:23 PM
Mercury and fluoride are both dangerous in large quantities. you shouldn't handle it, you should not have mercury amalgam fillings either, they emit mercury vapor in the presence of moisture
i didn't have a choice but, I wouldn't have gotten the mercury/thymarisol vaccine, I have looked at the actual mercury content in the shots its very very low but, for example, what if there were trace bits of shit in your food, I don't want shit in my food-even if its just a tiny tiny little bit of shit you'd never notice....same goes for mercury....

In 1939 a dentist named H. Trendley Dean, working for the U.S. Public Health Service, examined water from 345 communities inTexas. Dean determined that high concentrations of fluoride in the water in these areas corresponded to a high incidence of mottled teeth. This explained why dentists in the area found mottled teeth in so many of their patients. Dean also claimed that there was a lower incidence of dental cavities in communities having about 1 ppm fluoride in the water supply. Among the native residents of these areas about 10 percent developed the very mildest forms of mottled enamel ("dental fluorosis"), which Dean and others described as "beautiful white teeth."

Dean's report led to the initiation of artificial fluoridation of drinking water at 1part-per-million (ppm) in order to supply the "optimal dose" of 1mg fluoride per day--assuming that drinking four glasses of water every day would duplicate Dean's "optimal" intake for most people. Now, according to the American Dental Association, all people, rich or poor, could have "beautiful white teeth" and be free of caries at the same time. After all, the benefits of water fluoridation had been documented "beyond any doubt."13

When other scientists investigated Dean's data, they did not reach the same conclusions. In fact, Dean had engaged in "selective use of data," using findings from 21 cities that supported his case while completely disregarding data from 272 other locations that did not show a correlation.14 In court cases Dean was forced to admit under oath that his data were invalid.15 In 1957 he had to admit at AMA hearings that even waters containing a mere 0.1ppm (0.1 mg/l) could cause dental fluorosis, the first visible sign of fluoride overdose.16 Moreover, there is not one single double-blind study to indicate that fluoridation is effective in reducing cavities.17




Ingesting fluoride can cause flourosis that turns your bones brittle, for teeth its ok on the outside because it causes a little crystallization and protects them but ingesting it causes a lot and not just in your teeth, also i have read that both mercury and fluoride can have mental effects, mercury reduces I.Q. and fluoride i think makes people more docile and does other stuff I'm sure...
I know also that sodium flouride is a byproduct of uranium enrichment, and i remember reading an article about how it got into the water supply by accident....

here's a article on fluoride

http://www.consumerhealth.org/articles/display.cfm?ID=19990817225011

and here's a (propaganda) article refuting most of that one, says fluoride is naturally occurring in water and sodium fluoride is just helping nature along....right, and helping nature could never go wrong right... lol

http://www.quackwatch.com/03HealthPromotion/fluoride.html



There are people who constantly believe only the things they want to, and disregard facts. we all do this to some degree but.....
Personally I think you would be best to avoid, and how much do you trust what one person says as opposed to another anyways, is it worth getting cancer or something because of what somebody says is not dangerous?

do your research and remember people do stupid things all the time, but that does not mean you should too...
Title: Re: Magnetic Rotation in the Rodin Coil - was the Bell really a myth after all?
Post by: gravityblock on June 17, 2009, 12:41:00 AM
I agree that both mercury and fluoride are very dangerous.  I just have a hard time understanding how mercury can be OK to be used in the vaccinations, when it is not OK to have mercury thermostats or is too dangerous to experiment with.

The amount of mercury in the vaccines may be small, but the effect is additive from many different shots during a person's lifetime.

Taking the flu shot 3 out of 5 consecutive years will increase your risk of Alzheimers disease by more than 1000%.  My grandfather had a stroke 2 days after taking a flu shot.

The mercury in the vaccines is causing autism, diabetes, asthma, etc.

This is not rocket science to know it is causing harm, even in small doses......but it is OK to be used in the vaccinations and nothing else. LOL
Title: Re: Magnetic Rotation in the Rodin Coil - was the Bell really a myth after all?
Post by: Dave45 on June 17, 2009, 12:47:59 AM
what does the dangers of fluoride and mercury have to do with the roden coil.
good grief
science not paranoia, be cautious but quit freeken 
Title: Re: Magnetic Rotation in the Rodin Coil - was the Bell really a myth after all?
Post by: gravityblock on June 17, 2009, 03:29:13 AM
what does the dangers of fluoride and mercury have to do with the roden coil.
good grief
science not paranoia, be cautious but quit freeken

Mercury was mentioned earlier in the thread for an experiment with the Rodin Coil, and was said to be too dangerous to experiment with. So I mentioned, why be worried about the experiments with mercury, when you will more than likely go get a vaccination with mercury in it, or have in the past.  Just trying to point out how peoples reasoning is not right, and should not be a factor in not experimenting with something that may have a great benefit. 

Of course we should be cautious with our environment, weather it is exploding capacitors, high voltage and current, magnets flying off the rotor at high speeds, or with the dangers of mercury.  Thanks for the tip.

Any one of us could be killed in a car accident tomorrow, so does this mean we never travel by car again cause of the potential dangers?  Of course not. There are dangers all around us.  It's the same with mercury.  Since when did this ever stop us from doing something that is necessary, beneficial, or convenient.

I will do the experiments if someone gives me the Rodin Coils, the magnets, and the mercury.  I will take every precaution to protect myself from harm as I normally do with the other things.

Nobody is paranoid or freakin. LOL
Title: Re: Magnetic Rotation in the Rodin Coil - was the Bell really a myth after all?
Post by: MasterPlaster on June 17, 2009, 11:12:30 AM
The people who are talking about the dangers of mercury etc in this thread are clearly trying to derail the thread.
Title: Re: Magnetic Rotation in the Rodin Coil - was the Bell really a myth after all?
Post by: PYRODIN123321 on June 17, 2009, 03:08:34 PM
Off Topic WARNING!! omg!!
"The people who are talking about the dangers of mercury etc in this thread are clearly trying to derail the thread."
lol
yeah, I'm trying to derail the thread.....  ::)

...you freakin sheep....four legs good..... two legs better........

-on topic

Other than ferrofluid, mercury etc.. what other magnetic responsive liquids are there? I know water is polar and I have seen that vid with the water creeping out of the glass

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhBn1ozht-E

wonder if you could use water with some dye in it to observe the magnetic fields, or (if there is such a thing) magnetic responsive smoke or mist would be cool to see...
Title: Re: Magnetic Rotation in the Rodin Coil - was the Bell really a myth after all?
Post by: HeairBear on June 17, 2009, 03:57:18 PM
Other than ferrofluid, mercury etc.. what other magnetic responsive liquids are there? I know water is polar and I have seen that vid with the water creeping out of the glass

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhBn1ozht-E

Very cool! I'm gonna have to show this to the guys over at the HHO section. Thank You!
Title: Re: Magnetic Rotation in the Rodin Coil - was the Bell really a myth after all?
Post by: pcjunkie on June 17, 2009, 05:33:41 PM
Crush a few Neodyniums instead of mercury. They are crystal so it should be easy enough. You also need to Make it a vacuum if you want speed.
Title: Re: Magnetic Rotation in the Rodin Coil - was the Bell really a myth after all?
Post by: innovation_station on June 17, 2009, 08:15:06 PM
IF YOU INSIST IN LIQUID ... LOL


USE A SOS RUSTED IN WATER  ;)

STRAIN OUT THE JUNK USE THE RUSTY WATER PARTICLES ...

MAGIC WATER .... HUMMMMMM


LOL

TRY A CRYSTAL TOROIDE ....  ;)  QUARTZ...   BE WIZE ......

IST!
Title: Re: Magnetic Rotation in the Rodin Coil - was the Bell really a myth after all?
Post by: triffid on September 21, 2009, 09:04:08 PM
Another name for chemical hood is a "fume hood".And mercury was part of the discussion here.Triffid