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Author Topic: Peter Lindemann, The Mechanical Engine: A Re-Evolution of Bessler's Wheel  (Read 28766 times)

Offline rlortie

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Re: Peter Lindemann, The Mechanical Engine: A Re-Evolution of Bessler's Wheel
« Reply #60 on: February 11, 2009, 11:29:02 PM »
Good bye Jim,

Until another time, another pseudonym.

Ralph
« Last Edit: February 12, 2009, 02:35:07 AM by rlortie »

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Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: Peter Lindemann, The Mechanical Engine: A Re-Evolution of Bessler's Wheel
« Reply #61 on: February 12, 2009, 04:11:16 AM »
He does seem to like his pissing competitions Ralph. ;D ;D ;D

Hans

Offline BAHammer

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Re: Peter Lindemann, The Mechanical Engine: A Re-Evolution of Bessler's Wheel
« Reply #62 on: February 12, 2009, 03:48:36 PM »
He does seem to like his pissing competitions Ralph. ;D ;D ;D

Hans

  Hans,
 There is nothing pissing about it. If you read the thread G-Force, it was a discussion except for Alan. but that was okay.
 It is sad that the experts in this forum can not consider that 2 weights being suspended from one axis on one side of a wheel can generate more force than one weight being suspended from an axis on the other side of the wheel.
 I guess it is something that is to simple for you guys to grasp. And that is why it would be a pissing contest. you guys aren't the ones thinking of things liek this so have to be antagonistic  ;D

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Re: Peter Lindemann, The Mechanical Engine: A Re-Evolution of Bessler's Wheel
« Reply #62 on: February 12, 2009, 03:48:36 PM »
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Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Peter Lindemann, The Mechanical Engine: A Re-Evolution of Bessler's Wheel
« Reply #63 on: February 12, 2009, 04:43:41 PM »
Jim I am posting the picture of what you posted on.
    
Re: G-Force
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2009, 08:29:07 PM »

Note the Blue, Purple, and Red lines
Then note and add the distance of each collard lines from the center to each end. Are these magic lines for they will not move anything in those arrangements. And you wonder why I say it won't work the way you have drawn it? ::) ::) ::)

Offline BAHammer

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Re: Peter Lindemann, The Mechanical Engine: A Re-Evolution of Bessler's Wheel
« Reply #64 on: February 12, 2009, 06:12:48 PM »
Jim I am posting the picture of what you posted on.
    
Re: G-Force
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2009, 08:29:07 PM »

Note the Blue, Purple, and Red lines
Then note and add the distance of each collard lines from the center to each end. Are these magic lines for they will not move anything in those arrangements. And you wonder why I say it won't work the way you have drawn it? ::) ::) ::)

  Alan,
 You didn't post how I said the lines ran. I did say that they could be tried in different configurations.
I at no time said thatwas the definitive way. It was open to discussion.
 You did post that you and Ralph disproved it with your Keel Effect. Since you do not know the difference of the weight on the long lever and the iron rod, you can't make that statement.
 If you cut and paste the weight that rotates on Mt 20, one on the left side is hanging down, put it on the right side of Mt24. This would suggest that Bessler drew the drawing so a person would have to consider where the iron rod might be. If it is the same as Mt 20, it would be one that could hang down on one side of the wheel and then rotate and lay on the arm on it's way up. Later tonight, i will do the cut and paste to show you what I am talking about.
 Also, the way this pic is drawn, it's being able to work would depend on how long the rod is on the swinging weight and the distance the long lever can travel radially. Again, those things would need to be known before being able to make a definitive statement about whether or not it could  work that way. But with me, I am not sure what is wrong with considering different ways.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Peter Lindemann, The Mechanical Engine: A Re-Evolution of Bessler's Wheel
« Reply #64 on: February 12, 2009, 06:12:48 PM »
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Offline BAHammer

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Re: Peter Lindemann, The Mechanical Engine: A Re-Evolution of Bessler's Wheel
« Reply #65 on: February 12, 2009, 09:26:45 PM »
Good bye Jim,

Until another time, another pseudonym.

Ralph

  Ralph,
 only reason I quit using p-motion was Alan did not like me posting with other people. This was an attempt to discourage him. But he is your friend.

Offline mindsweeper

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Re: Peter Lindemann, The Mechanical Engine: A Re-Evolution of Bessler's Wheel
« Reply #66 on: February 12, 2009, 09:48:54 PM »
OBSERVATION:

The lack of a good moderator sure does surface on overunity.com

Why must people bicker so much..

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Peter Lindemann, The Mechanical Engine: A Re-Evolution of Bessler's Wheel
« Reply #66 on: February 12, 2009, 09:48:54 PM »
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Offline BAHammer

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Re: Peter Lindemann, The Mechanical Engine: A Re-Evolution of Bessler's Wheel
« Reply #67 on: February 12, 2009, 10:12:05 PM »
OBSERVATION:

The lack of a good moderator sure does surface on overunity.com

Why must people bicker so much..

 Good point MS.
 Myself, I think what is going on with Alan and me is that he is working on Mt 24. Some of the things he has posted suggests this. Just as he brought Mt 24 into this thread. There could be something he wanted me to clarify. He has posted that I will need to learn to dance for the public. And it could be why in the G-Force thread he was busy saying he had proven it won't work. That is because he was/is working on it and did not want someone else working on it.
 This would go to, why not work cooperatively in an open forum ? And the basic reason would be that some people want the attention most of all for "discovering" perpetual motion.
 And yet, if they had put years into studying math, science among other things, they would have a bit more respect for how difficult it is.
 Later tonite, I might post clearly the most likely way Mt 24 worked to help Alan.
 

Offline BAHammer

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Re: Peter Lindemann, The Mechanical Engine: A Re-Evolution of Bessler's Wheel
« Reply #68 on: February 12, 2009, 11:59:25 PM »
  Alan,
 in case you are working on Mt 24 and other Bessler drawings, could be wrong.
The first drawing with the red lines going to 2 different weights could be Bessler's first wheels of this type.
 This would mean that the over balanced weight would be rotated at least 45 degrees aftyer 45 degrees from bottom center. this would mean it would be leaning in towards the center of the wheel. And without bearings ( he had none ), the wheel would have rotated slowly allowing the weight to fall against the arm.
 The second drawing is Mt 20. it shows which weight that can rotate to Mt 24.
 The third drawing shows on Mt 24 where i moved it to show he could use similar mechanics in different drawings.

edited to add; The first attempt might have had 2 opposing ( 180 degrees apart ) weights with a line attaching them. This would cancel out centrifugal force as both weights and rods would be at 45 degrees to the force of gravity.
 The second, with a weight at 45 dergees, it might have had more stored potential kinetic energy. In simpler terms, once it could swing down, it might have shifted quicker.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Peter Lindemann, The Mechanical Engine: A Re-Evolution of Bessler's Wheel
« Reply #68 on: February 12, 2009, 11:59:25 PM »
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Offline BAHammer

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Re: Peter Lindemann, The Mechanical Engine: A Re-Evolution of Bessler's Wheel
« Reply #69 on: February 13, 2009, 12:06:27 AM »
 And with this, at 90 degrees. bessler might have found out that it was easier and simpler to have 2 weights shifting at the same time with the same cf acting on both of them.
 Because the line would be closer to center than the weights, this would mean that both weights would cancel out their respective cf because it would be the same on all weights with the same rod/weight relationship.
 As he went along, he would have refined his design based on what he learned from his other working models.
 Of course, with Mt 20, the lever is inverted ( backwards ). Even a dog would tire of doing the same trick. He was a little bit smarter.

edited to add; with 2 arms at 45 degrees to the axle, the weights on rods would also be at 45 degrees to the force of gravity.
 With the levers, the opposing lever helps to act as a counter balance. The shift in the 2 main weights creates more of a shift in balance as they are heavier than the lighter weights on the levers.
 And in all, there might be 3 different configurations that would allow Mt 24 to work.
 Had to run spell check  ;D

  Alan,
 If I have to venture a guess, I'd go with 135 degrees. The reason for this is when the weight that needs to move to it's starting position would be at 45 degrees after bottom center. The first drawing with red lines. The red line that does not go straight across. If you look at Bessler's pic, the weight and arm does not rotate out to 90 degrees. This would mean that the weight hanging from the arm could be rotating some before it reaches the level of the axle. It would have the help of the long lever and it's weight.
  it's a guess, this means I could be wrong.

Offline BAHammer

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Re: Peter Lindemann, The Mechanical Engine: A Re-Evolution of Bessler's Wheel
« Reply #70 on: February 13, 2009, 12:27:17 AM »
Alan,
 The red line is the rod and weight before the shift going with a 90 degree action between weights and rods.
 The blue is the long lever and weight and the green is the line attaching them. You should get the idea.
 Hard to say what Bessler actually knew or thought since he didn't leave a manuscript detailing how he went about his work. Needless to say, it's a real beotch trying to understand how someone developed an idea 300 yeaqrs ago.

edited to add;
  Alan,
 the shorter the rotating rods with weights, the less the long levers will need to move to shift the weights on short rods.
 this will allow for a quicker shift and less imbalance caused bya long lever rotating radially to much.
   Good Luck  :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Peter Lindemann, The Mechanical Engine: A Re-Evolution of Bessler's Wheel
« Reply #70 on: February 13, 2009, 12:27:17 AM »
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Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Peter Lindemann, The Mechanical Engine: A Re-Evolution of Bessler's Wheel
« Reply #71 on: February 13, 2009, 01:03:49 AM »
WOW Jim

 You assume to much.  :o I have no need of help in most cases until I need someone to put it into proper physics math format. And I have several people for that. We don't talk the same language for some reason I guess. I am a very hand on type of guy. I explain experience and you explain math. I pay close attention to detail of movement and reaction. For there is where the answer will be found.  You keep saying that I am working on MT24. I have played with it along with MT25 and other MT's and what I see is totally different than what you see. You are looking at your math and I am looking at reactions. All of my experience shows me that there is a denominator missing in all wheel configurations. That denominator will be found only by observation and physical experience. IMO When I tell you something won't work. That means I have most likely tried it or something similar. Just quit reading so much into what I say and just look at what I say only.

 I will say that what you just laid out, is the most I have ever saw you lay out. That is what I have been talking about for you to get your point across. Very few know how to talk math as a second language.

Offline Merg

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I didn't notice the animated video of Lindemann Mechanical Engine was mentioned during this discussion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GY0oz0iTiI

Offline grayone

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I didn't notice the animated video of Lindemann Mechanical Engine was mentioned during this discussion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GY0oz0iTiI

Merg; It is a shame it does not work.

Offline Alexioco

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I designed something like this once (some of you will remember) and I learnt that the pendulums swing will be "killed" because the pivot moves in the same direction as the swing and even if the pendulums did make it, it still would not turn for this reason:

Even though the weights take outer positions, the "wheel is required to turn" in order for the "weights to take an outward position" so the question is, whats powering the wheel in order for it to move the weights? the answer is Nothing!

So here with have a wheel not only trying to "move itself", but also trying to "move the weights" too!!!! Well thats not going to work...

This IMHO is the reason why all of these wheels are "Non Runners", It should be the "weights themselves" that "move the wheel", not the opposite way around...

(These are only my own thoughts on the matter and not to be used as a doctrine)

Alex

« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 06:21:51 PM by Alexioco »

 

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