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Author Topic: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!  (Read 197985 times)

duff

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Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #255 on: March 14, 2009, 10:32:39 AM »
Below are my notes & results on the latest round of tests in which I am trying to determine if the commutator/brushes will produce NRG's results.


Connecting the scope across the capacitor and turning the motor slowly so that the pulses are generated at a rate of about 3 per second produces several hundred volt spikes but not consistently.

To determine if the capacitor is maintaining a 300+ volts charge,  I changed the discharge timing to discharge just before acquiring another charge. The charge shorting bar width is 0.25"/6.4mm, discharge bar width is 0.34"/8.6mm, and commutator circumference is 3.00"/76.2mm.

Due to much noise I replaced one of the #24 wire brushes with a #18 wire. This gave a little more contact area and lowered its resistance.

Using the #18 wire on the left brush, which is the capacitor shorting switch, seem to lower the noise. I noted some spikes of 200 to 300 volts and occasionally the capacitor would charge to 300+ volts (as a result of one switching event) and maintain the voltage till discharged into the battery (one revolution).

I need to improve the brushes to reduce the noise and resistance. Hopefully that will produce consistent results which I DO NOT  currently have. I've also noted that the brushes get a carbon build up fairly rapidly.

Can the commutator produce the effect? - Yes, but not consistently with the current brush implementation.


@Poynt99

I tried the circuit variation you posted.

To compare the results of the original NGR circuit with the Diode version, I made 30 strikes on the metal strip of each circuit and recorded the voltages.

The original NRG circuit produced an average of 191V with the maximum voltage being 338V

The modified circuit with the diode produced an average of 98V with a maximum voltage of 190V.

I also tried connecting the shorting capacitor switch, SW2, to the metal strip and striking with only SW1. That produced 0 volts.


-Duff
« Last Edit: March 14, 2009, 02:14:25 PM by duff »

poynt99

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Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #256 on: March 14, 2009, 01:52:01 PM »
OK Duff, thanks for trying that.

Could there be something that makes electrolytics more "receptive" to charge if they are shorted just before charging?

The only other thing that comes to mind is the addition of SW1 introduces one more "noisy" contact which may result in more pulses through the coil resulting in a higher end-voltage on the cap.

.99

PaulLowrance

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Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #257 on: March 14, 2009, 04:24:01 PM »
The modified circuit with the diode produced an average of 98V with a maximum voltage of 190V.

What's the diode part #?

PL

poynt99

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Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #258 on: March 14, 2009, 05:03:04 PM »
What's the diode part #?

PL

Duff,

As Paul is alluding to here, try again with 2 MUR1560 (or equivalent) diodes in series.

Slow, low reverse voltage diodes will probably kill the effect.

.99

PaulLowrance

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Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #259 on: March 14, 2009, 05:08:45 PM »
Quote
As Paul is alluding to here, try again with 2 MUR1560 (or equivalent) diodes in series.

That will work. Although just one MUR1560 should suffice, no?  The reverse breakdown, Vr, of the MUR1560 is 600V. One will have less losses then two in-series.

PL

duff

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Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #260 on: March 15, 2009, 01:38:51 AM »
That will work. Although just one MUR1560 should suffice, no?  The reverse breakdown, Vr, of the MUR1560 is 600V. One will have less losses then two in-series.

PL

Paul & Poynt,

Thanks for the input -

The original test was with a 1N4007


I had one FEP16JT -

Max Repetitive Reverse Voltage: 600V
Max RMS Voltage: 420V
Max Reverse Recovery Time: 50ns

Again I struck the copper plate 30 times.
Average Voltage: 105.63V
Max Voltage: 146V

Note: I never saw spikes greater than 350V when testing the commutator.


-Duff

Edit: The capacitor I'm using is a non-polarized 0.85uF 2300VAC
« Last Edit: March 15, 2009, 12:25:30 PM by duff »

hakware

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Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #261 on: March 15, 2009, 08:24:38 AM »
It's been what, over a week, I've asked him at least 3 times, with no response on his part. He could use a capacitance meter, or the simple RC time constant method I described that included all of the required info to do this including the link to a RC time constant calculator.

Also, as stated, there's very little point in anyone replicating this until NRG can at least show some sincerity because this experiment has been performed countless times in college labs, at home, etc., Stefan. As stated, either NRG got ***extremely**** lucky in the way he wound the coil, or it's a ... you know what. Besides, someone in this thread already replicated NRG's experiment. This person clearly says and shows in his video that it's well under 100% efficiency. Hmmm, now that I think of it, everyone in this thread ignored that persons video. Why? He did great work!  Here's the link -->

http://www.energetictube.com/play/Vacuum_Radiant_Energy/NRG%20From%20The%20Vacuum%20replication%20test

The question is, why is NRG arguing, and taunting people with a working model of everyone's dream here, and not doing the minimum experiments. This is the same behavior that happens at these forums time after time after time. IMO legit people are beginning to get it. If someone is dodgy, gets upset or ignores you when they're asked to do a simple test that could easily reveal the truth, etc. etc. then move on and not let these people destroy this alternative energy community. They've wasted enough energy. Again, it's pointless for anyone to replicate it until they can at least do the minimum experiments.

Legit people may want to wonder why these same people that make these videos, a new username, always have theories that are so out of this world, while they ignore or throw rocks at methods of capturing common ambient thermal energy. Isn't that odd?  I've shown two completely different methods of using the best available mathematics from conventional physics that ambient thermal energy is available energy in massive endless quantities: 1. Diodes. 2. Magnetic. I mean, you would think that at least a few people out of countless researchers here would see, "Gee, atoms at room temperature are continuously moving around at thousands of mph. Gee, the Sun continually sustains such energy. Gee, there are countless macro scale effects that show such energy is easily affected and transferable on a macro scale, such as thermal conductivity and gas compression and expansion. Any one who's taken Physics 101 will know that when you expand gas that you are actually *removing* energy from the vibrating gas particles!  Obviously when you complete the cycle by compressing the gas back to normal you give the energy back to the gas. The tricks is make the cycle unbalanced. Perhaps viscosity?  You see, IMO those are the type of thoughts intelligent researchers in this field should be pondering upon. But hey, by all means,  people continue on because you no longer need to ponder upon such thoughts because I've provided the major breakthroughs, the methods, and the mathematics using well-established conventional software, FEMM. I'm mean, heck, you would people want to spend a few days verifying my claim and start working on research that is backed by the mathematics of conventional physics that is an almost 100% guarantee to be the biggest breakthrough in all history!

PL

Just one note In his video, he uses a Non polarized AC capacitor, which most of them I see have internal resistance compared to NRG's capacitor which appears to be a paper style capacitor more suited to RF where its internal resistances are much lower.

PaulLowrance

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Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #262 on: March 15, 2009, 04:27:09 PM »
Duff, are you saying the diode method did not charge the cap as high as the metal plate method? It's possible the AC voltage is going well over the diodes Vr, perhaps due to resonance from the cap and coil. A scope could check for this. I wonder what the max current is with the metal plate method. If it's very high, then the diode losses could be significant.

PL

PaulLowrance

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Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #263 on: March 15, 2009, 04:55:13 PM »
@Jesus

I tried putting one diode as you show at the negative terminal of the battery but that did not seem to produce charging.

I thought you put the diode in-series with the high voltage cap. That makes a huge difference. So it seems we're talking about two entirely different circuits.

PL

duff

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Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #264 on: March 15, 2009, 05:25:32 PM »
Duff, are you saying the diode method did not charge the cap as high as the metal plate method?

No, the diode method did not charge the cap as high as NRG's circuit.

Quote
It's possible the AC voltage is going well over the diodes Vr, perhaps due to resonance from the cap and coil. A scope could check for this. I wonder what the max current is with the metal plate method. If it's very high, then the diode losses could be significant.

It possible but I not think so. The 1n4007 has a Vr of 1000V though it not that fast. The FEP16JT certainly has it covered on speed. Also, the FEP16JT has a current rating of 16A.

As stated previously I never saw spikes over 350V when using the commutator. I could get a scope shot but I really don't think it's worth the trouble being I don't have a storage scope.

At the moment I'm concentrating my efforts on another commutator and different brushes.


Quote
Quote from: duff on March 13, 2009, 10:49:49
@Jesus

I tried putting one diode as you show at the negative terminal of the battery but that did not seem to produce charging.
I thought you put the diode in-series with the high voltage cap. That makes a huge difference. So it seems we're talking about two entirely different circuits.

PL

Yes, a different circuit.  This was related to the commutator circuit.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6734.msg163330#msg163330


-Duff

PaulLowrance

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Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #265 on: March 15, 2009, 05:39:02 PM »
Yes, a different circuit.  This was related to the commutator circuit.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6734.msg163330#msg163330

Isn't that circuit "cheating" just a bit. As shown, the battery is connected to the coil. Wasn't the whole purpose to use the energy stored in the low voltage cap to charge the high voltage cap?

PL

PaulLowrance

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Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #266 on: March 15, 2009, 06:37:44 PM »
Have you tried this circuit?  In LTspice, using real materials with real losses, I was charging the high voltage cap to 325V with cap charged to 26V.

Close switch W1 to allow the C1 cap charge, then open W1, then hit the metal plate (switch W2). The amount of inductance in the coil makes a huge difference.

PL

PaulLowrance

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Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #267 on: March 15, 2009, 06:59:50 PM »
After playing with the circuit a bit, realistic values according to what NRG was getting in the video is 200mH for the coil. The low voltage cap was charged to 26V. The cap was connected to the 200mH inductor for 0.2 seconds. With that setup, the 33uF cap charged to 220V.

PL

duff

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Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #268 on: March 15, 2009, 07:23:14 PM »
Isn't that circuit "cheating" just a bit. As shown, the battery is connected to the coil. Wasn't the whole purpose to use the energy stored in the low voltage cap to charge the high voltage cap?

PL

Paul,

The link I gave went with the response to Jesus that YOU qutoed. Jesus suggested the circuit. Please read the thread in sequence.

This is the circuit I am testing.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6734.msg162200#msg162200

I don't plan on trying any other variation of the circuit until I feel I can't take it any further.


-Duff

PaulLowrance

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Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #269 on: March 15, 2009, 07:36:07 PM »
That looks like the same circuit as shown in your other link, except it's not in a circuit diagram format.

Anyhow, I have no interest in that circuit because it's using the battery to charge to coil. What caught my interest was the NRG circuit that used a capacitor to quickly charge a coil, which in turn was used to charge another capacitor.

NRG, any idea when you might be able to measure the capacitance of your caps just before and after the experiments? I gave you a very simple RC method.

PL