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Author Topic: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!  (Read 197958 times)

PaulLowrance

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Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #240 on: March 09, 2009, 05:25:03 PM »
I'm wondering what the maximum voltage spike is. I've seen transistors that are good for at least 1500V. IMO that would get the best results with the proper timing, but then again such experiments are almost entirely only good for a learning experience. NRG still needs to know the capacitance just before and after the experiment. Also, IMO he should try to replicate his own coil.

PL

duff

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Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #241 on: March 09, 2009, 09:53:51 PM »
I replicated the basic experiment last night using only the battery and capacitor.

The cap was a .85uF 2300V and was charged to 340V from a single pulse.

It appears to me that at the moment of the pulse the cap is charge to 24v and then inductor acquires its energy/charge after which the circuit is disconnected and the bemf of the inductor is released through the single wire connection to the capacitor.

Clever!

I'll see if I can implement a commutator on a low rpm motor as a reliably switch.

-Duff
« Last Edit: March 10, 2009, 08:57:47 AM by duff »

robbie47

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Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #242 on: March 11, 2009, 05:14:31 PM »
Wouldn't the use of relay's work better?
Relay's normally would have very reliable contact plates.
You could always use the rotor to power the relay coils.

PaulLowrance

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Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #243 on: March 11, 2009, 05:48:12 PM »
Even better yet a 400+ volt transistor.

PL

wattsup

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Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #244 on: March 11, 2009, 07:10:51 PM »
@guys

Sorry for regressing back to post #1 since I did not have time to read the whole thread given I spend more of my time on building and testing things, but I do have a concern of the uTube video showing the two capacitors as OU.

There is one medium DC capacitor of high uF and low voltage transfering a charge to the big non-polarized capacitor of low uF and high voltage. You then measure the voltage in the big cap and do some math to get the comparative joules of energy. But this is not right in my view since the big capacitor will certainly not have a linear specification relative to voltage level and percentage on the dielectric occupied by the charge.

Meaning if the big cap is a 1200volts, and you read 120 volts as a given charge, it does not mean there is 10% of the dielectric being used, hence using the uF value of the cap to do the math would not be right. You would require the real capacitor specifications to understand how a voltage reading realates to the total charge in the capacitor in joules.

Otherwise you would have to then use the charge in the big cap to do some work and compare it to the work being done by the smaller cap.

Another example would be if the big cap was fully charged to 1200 volts and you put a motor load via a resistor and find that the capacitor can discharge all its energy in time and make the motor turn one complete turn. It does not mean if the capacitor is charged to only 120 volts it will make the motor turn 1/10th of a turn. Hence you should not rely on the capacitor value to do your math especially if you are using such a big capacitor.

PaulLowrance

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Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #245 on: March 11, 2009, 08:42:04 PM »
Hi wattsup,

They're aware of that, which is why they use the equation -->

E = 0.5 C V^2

Note that the "^2" in the equation. That means the voltage is squared.

The way they're calculating the energy is correct. What they need to do is determine the capacitance since electrolytic are a bit dynamic capacitance.

PL

wattsup

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Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #246 on: March 11, 2009, 09:31:28 PM »
@PL

Thanks for the clarification. I would think that showing work would be the best way since the conclusion is a high enough COP, work should show the difference well enough.

OK back to work myself.

duff

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Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #247 on: March 11, 2009, 10:49:56 PM »
Wouldn't the use of relay's work better?
Relay's normally would have very reliable contact plates.
You could always use the rotor to power the relay coils.


Even better yet a 400+ volt transistor.

PL

Yes is would be easier however using relays or transistors does not allow for trying different metals combinations for the contact switching.


-Duff

Edit:
It appears to me that at the moment of the pulse the cap is charge to 24v and then inductor acquires its energy/charge after which the circuit is disconnected and the bemf of the inductor is released through the single wire connection to the capacitor.

The above statement I made is incorrect.
It appears the capacitor is shorted out while the inductor is charging...
« Last Edit: March 12, 2009, 03:23:03 AM by duff »

xenomorphlabs

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Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #248 on: March 12, 2009, 06:55:27 PM »
Quote
Yes is would be easier however using relays or transistors does not allow for trying different metals combinations for the contact switching.

After the best metal combination is found, he can modify a relay and replace the contact materials
with the metals he wants. With a bit of manual skill this should be no problem.

By the way, very tiring to read through this thread.. Instead of attacking the guy, why not actively help confirm and/or disprove the experiment? That would be scientific.

duff

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Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #249 on: March 13, 2009, 01:23:41 PM »
With reference to the above drawaing: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6734.msg162581#msg162581

I did some initial testing of the circuit with poor results. The battery voltage fluctuates wildly (mostly negative). Putting a scope across the battery shows 20+ volt spikes, both positive and negative in the same instant. I think the fluctuation are due to the load placed on the battery as the three brushes hit the shorting bar. I varied the motor speed between 300/800 rpms and  did not observe any charging effect.


The commutators were made of a 3/4" copper plumbing coupling, filled with JB Weld and then drilled & threaded so as to screw onto the motor shaft. Three channels were then cut so as to isolate the brush from each other and a shorting bar left intact so the three brushes connected when crossing. For the brushes I used #24 copper magwire with the ends bare (copper to copper contact).


With reference to the wire in the circuit that  seemingly shorts the capacitor ( In the drawing its the middle brush). I already made comments about it in two previous posts but as it turns out it does NOT prevent the capacitor from charging (obviously the circuit works) but I found that totally non-intuitive.


-Duff

nievesoliveras

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Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #250 on: March 13, 2009, 03:52:17 PM »
With reference to the above drawaing: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6734.msg162581#msg162581

I did some initial testing of the circuit with poor results. The battery voltage fluctuates wildly (mostly negative). Putting a scope across the battery shows 20+ volt spikes, both positive and negative in the same instant. I think the fluctuation are due to the load placed on the battery as the three brushes hit the shorting bar. I varied the motor speed between 300/800 rpms and  did not observe any charging effect.


The commutators were made of a 3/4" copper plumbing coupling, filled with JB Weld and then drilled & threaded so as to screw onto the motor shaft. Three channels were then cut so as to isolate the brush from each other and a shorting bar left intact so the three brushes connected when crossing. For the brushes I used #24 copper magwire with the ends bare (copper to copper contact).


With reference to the wire in the circuit that  seemingly shorts the capacitor ( In the drawing its the middle brush). I already made comments about it in two previous posts but as it turns out it does NOT prevent the capacitor from charging (obviously the circuit works) but I found that totally non-intuitive.


-Duff


What do you think about adding two diodes to rectify the electricity going in and out of the capacitor?

Jesus

Zigis

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Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #251 on: March 13, 2009, 04:19:26 PM »
duff, what you mean with poor results? Do you can't charge cap to high voltage, or charged cap can't charge battery?
Maybe try to separate both steps first.
I ask, because I try small relay, and cant repeat hand hiting result, cap simply not charge.
I think, maybe all three contacts not need to be perfectly in one time, maybe ground disconnect first, and cap and coil small bit later? However this is only my speculation.
Zigis.

duff

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Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #252 on: March 13, 2009, 05:49:49 PM »
What do you think about adding two diodes to rectify the electricity going in and out of the capacitor?

Jesus

@Jesus

I tried putting one diode as you show at the negative terminal of the battery but that did not seem to produce charging. I will try a  second as you have shown at the commutator tonight.

These are just preliminary results.

duff, what you mean with poor results? Do you can't charge cap to high voltage, or charged cap can't charge battery?
Maybe try to separate both steps first.
I ask, because I try small relay, and cant repeat hand hiting result, cap simply not charge.
I think, maybe all three contacts not need to be perfectly in one time, maybe ground disconnect first, and cap and coil small bit later? However this is only my speculation.
Zigis.

@Zigis

I can charge a cap to 340V using the technique demonstrated by NRG.

I don't yet know if the commutator is producing the same results.  I do know the commutator is not charging the battery. So, by poor results I mean it is not charging the battery.

I've got to simplify the setup and determine if the commutator is producing the same results.


@all

Here is a little bit more info about my setup:

The shorting bar was a calculated length based on the RL time constant and angular velocity, so  varying the speed effects how the inductor charges.

Also, I'm NOT using an loosely wound inductor. I'm using a  trifilar with two of the winding connected together. The third is not being used. The core is 3/4" in diameter and made of welding wire. Since I got the capacitor to charge using the hand tapping method I went ahead and used it in the initial test.


-Duff

PaulLowrance

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Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #253 on: March 13, 2009, 06:42:17 PM »
I tried putting one diode as you show at the negative terminal of the battery but that did not seem to produce charging.

I can charge a cap to 340V using the technique demonstrated by NRG.


You need to make sure your diode has well over 340V reverse breakdown. Not too many diodes can handle that much voltage.

PL

poynt99

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Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #254 on: March 14, 2009, 03:51:25 AM »
Close SW1 so that it always remains connected to the metal plate. Insert a diode as shown (becomes SW1 in a sense).

Now again perform the hand switching action with the remaining alligator lead SW2 to the metal plate.

I will venture to say that you will get similar "good" results, but they should be more consistent.

.99