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### Author Topic: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!  (Read 191735 times)

#### zerotensor

• Full Member
• Posts: 240
##### Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2009, 05:16:26 AM »
1)  The multimeter should be replaced with a scope.  I reckon there is indeed a lot of "bounce" in this setup.

2)  I'd recommend that a proper switch, (perhaps a SCR or isolated rotary contact), be installed before trying the experiment with a whole bunch of caps in parallel, unless you think you might enjoy a potentially lethal shock.  Remember to short-out the array while you aren't using it -- the caps can accumulate a full charge if left alone and unshorted.

good luck and for heaven's sake be careful.

#### MeggerMan

• TPU-Elite
• Sr. Member
• Posts: 497
##### Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2009, 02:08:01 PM »
Energy in a capacitor = 1/2 x C(farrads) x V^2
E = 0.5 x 0.005 x 20 x 20
E = 1 joule
OK so to charge a capacitor of 5000uF to 20V requires 1 joule of energy.
So therefore 1 joule = 1 watt for 1 second.
To achieve it in a millisecond needs 1Kw for 1 mSec, quite a high power density - a scope should be able to show the real duration of charging.

So if you can charge a 5000uF cap to 20V you can discharge this at a constant voltage across a resistor of 1V at 1Amp for 1 second or 10 milliamps for 100 seconds.

Either way I think a scope shot of the cap and coil is required to check the voltage surges.
Now if this can be applied to an ultra-capacitor of say 40KWHrs capacity, now that would be something.
If I get time this evening I will try and scope this.

Regards
Rob

#### Koen1

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1172
##### Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2009, 04:11:49 PM »
Interesting setup Magnetos

As for the "splitting the positive" element, that reminds me of Grey's
circuits where he "split the positive" and managed to produce apparent OU...
Is this perhaps a variation on the same theme?

Also, do we or don't we need to use a bifilar coil in this?

Regards,
Koen

#### jogilbert

• Newbie
• Posts: 2
##### Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2009, 06:11:39 PM »
so this is basically a car coil type thing but with poor points,if the volts increase is it more power??I think not, unless there is amps then OK watts

#### Frederic2k1

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 90
##### Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2009, 07:08:29 PM »
Quote
so this is basically a car coil type thing but with poor points,if the volts increase is it more power??I think not,

With only voltage and capacitance there is no need to know the current to calculate energy.

#### Magnethos

• Hero Member
• Posts: 521
##### Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2009, 09:36:32 PM »
Interesting setup Magnetos

As for the "splitting the positive" element, that reminds me of Grey's
circuits where he "split the positive" and managed to produce apparent OU...
Is this perhaps a variation on the same theme?

Also, do we or don't we need to use a bifilar coil in this?

Regards,
Koen

The original experiment is using a Bifilar coil and the positive split. Armakuni his performing the experiment with a monofilar coil and without splitting the positive. I have repeated him a lot of times about using the bifilar and the positive split. I hope he uses that configuration in the next videos. One of the big keys is use a bifilar coil. Maybe Armakuni cannot get good results for the same reason. He needs to use the exact schematics. Once he has tested the exact experiment, then we will can improve it. But he is getting 26 Volts from a 12 Volts battery.

Yeah, Ev Gray used that technique. Some people has told me that splitting the positive, a battery acts as a diode. (¿?)

#### hartiberlin

• Hero Member
• Posts: 8122
##### Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2009, 10:45:21 PM »
Does anybody know, how the Bifilar coil was really connected ?
Was it wired like a real Bifilar coil which supresses the magnetic field in a Bifilar coil ?
Or was it just wired 2 coils in parallel , so we get the half of total inductance ?

Or was it wired like 2 bucking coils, so that each coil was canceling the other magnet field,
but each coil was wound seperate onto the core ?

Lots of possibilities here...

Regards, Stefan.

#### Magnethos

• Hero Member
• Posts: 521
##### Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2009, 10:55:10 PM »
Does anybody know, how the Bifilar coil was really connected ?
Was it wired like a real Bifilar coil which supresses the magnetic field in a Bifilar coil ?
Or was it just wired 2 coils in parallel , so we get the half of total inductance ?

Or was it wired like 2 bucking coils, so that each coil was canceling the other magnet field,
but each coil was wound seperate onto the core ?

Lots of possibilities here...

Regards, Stefan.

A guy said me this:
Hi Magnethos,

Essentially a bifilar coil is pretty much a double wound coil. Instead of using one wire you use two wires of similar or slightly different thickness and wound it around a spool.
There are many techniques that will enhance the effectiveness but lets stick to the basics for now.
Imagine winding a single wire coil around an empty fishing line spool. When you are finished you are left with two wires. The end that you started with and the end that you finished with.
Now imagine winding two wires at the same time around another spool. At the end you are left with 4 wires, two wires you started with and two that you ended with.
There are some nice videos on YouTube that show you exactly how to wind bifilar coils. Actually thats how I started out.

Now in NRG's circuit diagram he shows a bifilar coil but with only two wires which is actually 4 wire ends joined into 2 groups making two wires.
I hope that makes sense.

For now consider winding the bifilar coil first. My first coil I still use. Its approximately 300-350 turns around an emtpy fishing line spool. I used 23 and 26 gage wire to wind it.

Bifilar Secret:
I got stuck on the bifilar coil wiring as NRG only shows two wires leaving the coil and I was expecting four. The 'secret' I eventually discovered was to combine the four bifilar wires into 2 wires by knotting them together

Source: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/2601-capacitor-charging.html

If anyone read the comments on that thread, you can read the comment that a guy got 125 Volts from 2x12 Volts. 100 Extra Volts.

#### MeggerMan

• TPU-Elite
• Sr. Member
• Posts: 497
##### Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2009, 12:02:33 AM »
Thinking aloud:
As everyone knows, bifilar can mean two or more strands of wire wound together.
But it can also mean the ends are swapped (in the case of 2 strands like Stefan said to counter a magnetic field being produced in the core).
OK, theory on the bifilar being better is (possibly) down to the "skin" effect in the coil of such a short "bouncy" pulse.
http://www.bcae1.com/trnsfrmr.htm

Three wires shorted creating a higher voltage - I suspect that the battery is dropped across the coil directly and much more current is able to flow creating a much higher BEMF so when the contacts break this jumps the gap and charges the cap. Downside here is that it will short the cap out before it charges, so any charge already in the cap will be lost as heat in the wire.

Regards
Rob

#### Magnethos

• Hero Member
• Posts: 521
##### Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2009, 12:11:08 AM »
There are a lot of possible theories, but I think that when we use the bifilar coil, the magnetic field is cancelled as Stefan says. So, in the bifilar coil only pure potential (longitudinal, scalar) energy flows.
When anyone use the longitudinal energy (pure potential, electrostatic, scalar, torsion waves, radiant energy, negative electricity... a lot of names for the same energy) the characteristics of the components are opposite. A positive resistor is a negative resistor, a battery is a diode... etc...

So, it's critic to use a bifilar coil and not a monofilar coil.

#### hartiberlin

• Hero Member
• Posts: 8122
##### Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2009, 02:40:32 AM »
It seems, Mike (Youtube user: NRGFromTheVacuum) is just putting the 2 coils in
parallel, so the magnetic field is not canceled inside of them.
I just got this email from him:

Hi Stefan,

I had no idea that someone was discussing my setup outside of You Tube. I have shown it in person to a nuclear physicist and a material scientist. They both agreed there was something "unconventional" going on, but could not agree on what. I told them,

"there needs to be less speculation, and more experimentation. That is the only way to agree on what your seeing."

It's great to know some people out there actually care about science, instead of just shrugging experimental evidence off like it never even happened. Build it and then build it again, replicate it until people listen.

My bifilar coil is: 4.7 Ohms of #23 & #26 wire wrapped around a 3.5" x 1" core. (The coil is wired in parallel)
(Its the same coil that John Bedini uses for his SSG kits)

I would love to visit your website and discuss more possibility's and of course more details about my experiments.

Best Regards,

My name is Mike, I'm a laser engineer.

#### hansvonlieven

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 2558
##### Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2009, 04:25:22 AM »
I take it you have invited Mike to the forum Stefan.

It would be great to have him chip in.

Hans von Lieven

#### capthook

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 469
##### Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2009, 09:04:34 AM »
Why the endless confusion with collecting a spark on a capacitor?
Wasn't captainpecan's 84 pages enough?

POWER IN MUST BE MEASURED!
And no where is that done!

Just because you are showing a larger voltage than the source means nothing.
What is a spark?  HIGH VOLTAGE!
So what do you get on a capacitor capturing that spark? HIGH VOLTAGE!

So let's see:

Power in:
12v source into a 4.7 ohm coil
I=V/R
12V/4.7Ohm = 2.553 amps
12V x 2.553A = 30.396 watts
30.396W x .1 seconds = 3.0396 wattseconds (W/S) or joules (J)

Even say you could pulse it in .01 seconds (1 hundredth of a second....doubtful... and a pulse of 1 microsecond - that's one millionth of a second - as listed on one of the diagrams is just silly thinking)

30.396W x .01 seconds = .30396 J or W/S

Power collected:
26V on a 30uF capacitor
.5(26x26x.000030) = 0.01014 J or W/S

So IF you could actually pulse it at .01 seconds (.1 would be more like it)

Power in:  .30396 J
Power out: .01014 J
Efficiency: 3.33%
Wasted power: 96.66 %

And that's being generous........
It's probably more like:

Power in (.1 second): 3.0396 J
Power out           : .01014 J
Efficiency:   .333%
Wasted power: 99.66%
« Last Edit: February 12, 2009, 09:37:29 AM by capthook »

#### Tito L. Oracion

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2203
##### Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2009, 09:32:47 AM »
@ captainhook

Sir mathematicaly you are correct but if we make sudden discharge of that cap to a coil, i think it will be converted into huge energy.

i think from that mathematic is not anymore a reality.

N.tesla, bearden.

#### flathunter

• Full Member
• Posts: 187
##### Re: Real OU-Effect to Share with everyone!!!
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2009, 12:34:35 PM »
This reminds me of the joule thief.  Bifilar wire, ferrite core, pulsing the DC...

I recommend Magnethos check out the thread called ''Jule thief''.  Its lots of fun mate