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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: qiman on January 29, 2009, 09:45:58 AM
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Watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y0921zaPxQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y0921zaPxQ) Gray Tube - How it works.
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It is definitely not about discharging a HV cap into the tube to get the tube to spit out something special. The tube passes the HV from power source to the cap on the back side of the inductor....then when switch at LV rod is closed, that cap collides with front side HV cap and moves to common ground.
Anyway, this is obviously my opinion but based on experiments...see my vid.
The magnet didn't push away because I had the polarity backwards...coil was tugging magnet to it but you can hear it yanking on the entire bicycle wheel and stand. More later...
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Watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y0921zaPxQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y0921zaPxQ) Gray Tube - How it works.
try to use an simply car breaker contacts.
driven mechanical by an electromotor.
use also an car ignition coil.
this will save you (and other) to drive the
transistors (that are also the wrong typ to
do this job !! .Think to use High voltage Diodes
- some fast switching (!) diodes in series to use this
for used KV).
Pese
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Watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y0921zaPxQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y0921zaPxQ) Gray Tube - How it works.
Damn illuminati has zapped your video.
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Video works fine here. As for the green flash I know that crooks tube give a green glow due to the excitation of the glass or so they say.
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Video Explanation of How The Gray Tube Works
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y0921zaPxQ
I have a lot of stuff here, but the posts in this thread here have the up to date latest.
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3235-gray-tube-replication.html
My explanation appears to be the only thing that is finally consistent with the patents.
Theories aside, it doesn't matter if there is electron cascade, RF or anything else.
What matters at this point is the mechanics of the step-by-step function of what is happening and I believe I have shown it accurately.
Just about everyone, including myself, seems to have believed C1 is discharged into the tube and this causes an outward event that is captured by the grids and that powers the load. This is evidently NOT the case. It is the inverse. John showed electron movement from rods to grids so he knew all along exactly how it worked or what can be taken from his drawings at least that it was C2 that was powering the load.
As it was mentioned, the patent does say that but nobody is doing what the patent says. The "choices" that seem to be of debate were primarily with the diode placement. Was Gray wrong and Bedini right? Bedini has it right and I still have reason to believe this.
The grids are the standing potential of C2 until LV rod is switched. That standing HV electrostatic potential may or may not be polarizing the ambient air in the tube, special gas, etc... All speculation on gases, vacuum, etc... are evidently not required for the effect although it may be necessary to increase the strength of the effect. None of that is known at this time I don't believe. The Grids are the extension of C2 as an extension to the dipole. The potential is already there and doesn't have to get there.
I pointed out in the past but it went unnoticed that even on John's SG's, the positive potential of the battery is ALREADY sitting in the coil. Then when switched on the negative, which it is, it is the negative potential that slams into the coil without resistance...the positive potential doesn't have to encounter resistance entering the coil because it is again, ALREADY sitting there as an extension of the dipole (battery).
The Grids are an extension of C2 and the + potential is ALREADY sitting in the inductive load. It doesn't have to move into it and meet resistance. When LV rod is switched on, some serious negative potential (not necessarily electrons at all - anti-photon potential) moves with negative resistance TO the grids, into the load and into the cap.
I can see now why at higher voltages and higher speeds that inductive load could get covered with ice.
If everyone can see it, the analogy to lightening and how the tube works are not a joke.
Anyway, C1 gets charged as I show...directly from the power supply, over HV rod directly over gap to the GRIDS, through inductor and to C2...that is exactly how C2 is charged.
The C2-cap/Load-inductor, I suppose can be tuned for resonance at whatever frequency the power supply is operating at for maximum efficiency in charging that capacitor. The wire on the Gray motor appears to be pretty large diameter.
Then while C2 is charged up -- the commutator or whatever turns on the switch at the LV ROD gives a low potential path to ground for C2 to discharge to.
If grids are only covering the HV rod, then C2 can't jump directly to LV rod, it must jump to HV rod first forcing a collision into HV + potential of C1, THEN, it jumps to LV rod back to ground.
It is of course very apparent that the power supply + potential is also at the HV rod in addition to whatever charge is in C1...so C2 is colliding with that as well (if and only if the power supply happens to be on a ON cycle at that time).
My grids are almost 1 cm from the rods so they obviously need to be closer if C2 is going to be able to discharge during the OFF cycle of the power supply.
But if the power supply is operating at 6khz for example, then there will almost be a continuous spark from HV rod to Grids for practical purposes and therefore will act as a conductive pathway for C2 to discharge over towards the Grids. If this is the case, then a wider gap beyond the breakdown gap for C2 can be there.
My C2 was discharging as low as about 700 volts over a gap of almost 1 cm from Grids to HV rod and was able to do so only when it met with a HV spark from HV rod to Grid from the power supply.
I believe that it makes the most sense to have the grids only over HV rod and not the whole setup for these reasons of forcing the collision with the HV potential of C1.
I also think that the spacing between HV rod and Grids should be close enough so that the potential in C2 could discharge when LV Rod is switched on all by itself without having to have the power supply on. With keeping the ROD gap the same, there could be a comparison between C2 discharging by itself with close gap or using HV spark form HV rod and compare coil-popping strength...that is the only sure way to know what is best.
The spacing between the HV rod and LV rod should be worked out by having the gap wider and closer and seeing what makes a stronger pop at the coil...that is the only way to know.
So, after all, it is about discharging from the Grids (C2) into the tube and not the other way around.
PDF of this explanation: http://www.esmhome.org/library/edwin_gray/howthegraytubeworks.pdf
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Stupid question: what's a grey tube?
I would guess that the green flashing that your are seeing is due to the copper oxidizing with air in the flash tube. There's probably water vapor in there.
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Stupid question: what's a grey tube?
It's E.V. Gray's Electrical Conversion Switching Element Tube described in his US patent 4,661,747 and used in his circuit refered to in his other patents. See:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=8-U4AAAAEBAJ&dq=4661747
@qiman, Nice work!
-Steve
http://rimstar.org http://wsminfo.org
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Gray tube is Tesla pancake coil transformer.
Look at modified schematic and ask yourself...
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Follow this thread : http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3235-gray-tube-replication.html
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azfxP9lBAao
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azfxP9lBAao
I watched that one earlier today. How well does the wheel move when the magnets and coil are arranged with the wheel such that the forces are more tangential instead of radial? Also, this was all with the spark plug (and your DC/static circuit of course) and no gray tube, right? In any case, very cool.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org http://wsminfo.org
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Hi
Do you think that this is also the secret of the Swiss Testatika, using static electricity colliding with DC current?
Tishatang
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Let me quote something and you will see that static electricity is not only ions but Ghz oscillation...
"I attacked vigorously the development of my magnifying transmitter, now, however, not so much with the original intention of producing one of great power, as with the object of learning how to construct the best one. This is, essentially, a circuit of very high self-induction and small resistance which in its arrangement, mode of excitation and action, may be said to be the diametrical opposite of a transmitting circuit typical of
telegraphy by Hertzian or electromagnetic radiations. It is difficult to form an adequate idea of the marvelous power of this unique appliance, by the aid of which the globe will be transformed. The electromagnetic radiations being reduced to an insignificant quantity, and proper conditions of resonance maintained, the circuit acts like an immense pendulum, storing indefinitely the energy of the primary exciting impulses and impressions upon the earth and its conducting atmosphere uniform harmonic oscillations of intensities which, as actual tests have shown, may be pushed so far as to surpass those attained in the
natural displays of static electricity."
Nikola Tesla
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The permanent magnets don't work too well because they are so weak, there is hardly any magnetic field left to them. So the coil hardly had anything to push against. Only the rectangle magnets had some strength even though they're beat down but the shape is wrong for the core. Need to try with round neos. For real torque, would still use radial but the rotor should be more hotdog shaped so long magnets the same size or opposing coil. Magnets obviously being the easier one to build for starters. And, Marvin Cole may have had permanent magnets originally and not the opposing coils that Gray was using.
The speed of Gray's power supply has 6khz.
Also, I have done this exact same thing with the tube and it works the same. Just much quieter.
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Some Gray stuff :)
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=item226 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=item226)
Marco.
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This is an excellent thread. Great analysis from Aaron and qiman. Thanks guys!
"Splitting the Positive"
It seems to me that the simplicity of Cold energy is to create a HV vacuum from the sudden discharge of 2 equally balanced capacitors. As the flow of electrons actually goes from the negative to the positive. A capacitor actually has an implosive action, sucking up electrons as it discharges.
So a synchronized HV discharge between 2 balanced caps will create an electron vacuum between them. Nature abhores a vacuum and fills it with something else; Cold energy?
I thought about this and I drew up a circuit that I think gets to the point. I'll try it out tomorrow.
Does it look like it will work?
Is there something else that the tubes do that bring about that extra kick of energy?
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Is there something else that the tubes do that bring about that extra kick of energy?
Yeah, make it work. Check out Naudin's MHOG experiment. Replace copper flask with copper coil. The secret to Gray tube is the H2 to H1 transmute.
You might check out some of Jerry Bayles's work if you are up to the science.
http://www.electrogravity.com/HydDisEnergy/HydDisEnergy_1.pdf
Notice the yellow graphic mid document? That is the principle of sustaining the burn with ultraviolet that Stan Meyer talked about.
http://www.electrogravity.com/EnergyPipe/EnergyPipe_Add1.pdf
Sorry to say, Aaron missed the boat on this one. It's the hydrogen.
The water spark plug has absolutely nothing to do with the gray tube. The two coils that someone quoted as being present near the gray tube were just the autoformers used to produce the arc.
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That is the principle of sustaining the burn with ultraviolet that Stan Meyer talked about.
Can you pls point out where you saw or heard this?
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Can you pls point out where you saw or heard this?
Most of his lectures Alan. He alludes to it in this one and I think video 7 of the Colorado lectures in better detail.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoBbnqcfJWs
All of these water fuel inventions worked the same way - Puharich, Meyer, Mills. Read and listen to what they are telling you and the terms they use. Hydrogen fracturing - Meyer / hydrogen shattering - Puharich. Reducing the energy state, etc. They all worked the same way and it is hardly a new trick.
Notice Meyer states that his oxygen atom only has 4 electrons? That is some powerful ozone huh?
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I know he talked red laser and leds to energize and 'prime' the gasses, but nowhere have I seen him mention UV, I'll check the video.
Ozone is very probable indeed:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ozone-resonance-Lewis-2D.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ozone-resonance-Lewis-2D.png)
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I know he talked red laser and leds to energize and 'prime' the gasses, but nowhere have I seen him mention UV, I'll check the video.
Ozone is very probable indeed:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ozone-resonance-Lewis-2D.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ozone-resonance-Lewis-2D.png)
[hmm I think I don't understand the pic above, 1 line is 2 sharing electrons?]
Alan, there is a big difference between making a powerful form of ozone using red LED lasers and sustaining the burn of a sub critical hydrogen explosion.
I seem to recall oxygen having a resonant frequency of 752nm which is red and a part of the air gas processor. Read the patent.
Meyer patented and documented in his notes a hydrogen laser which emits UV light. You can read these things for yourself in his notes and patents.
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quarktoo, if H2 to H1 transmutation is useful, it seems to me that it may work to run an SM WFC as the load.
I simplified the circuit. Per Rosemary Ainslie's theory, its the CEMF that brings about ou at the inductive load. A discharging cap causes electrons to travel toward the cap. 2 caps discarging with an inductive load between them causes and electron vacuum at the inductive load. When the 2 caps discharge they create CEMF (Counter Electromotive Force), 2 Electromotive forces working against each other, creating an electron vacuum between them.
The universe abhores a vacuum... how the vacuum is filled is speculation at this point.
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Dogs,
You used a resistive element symbol to describe an inductive load, a switch to indicate both a relay and probably a transistor and your secondary isn't grounded. Good luck with your theory.
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Thanks quarktoo,
You are right... The load should be inductive, something like a transformer, the secondary coil should connect to the negative of the primary, and the switches should ideally be something like HV HF opto-couplers or IGBTs that are controlled by some oscillators, details, details.
Just a rough idea of the basic concept...
Actually kind of looks like Tesla's patent # US Patent 568,176 Apparatus For Producing Electric Currents Of High Frequency And Potential.
Especially if one were to use the single capacitor variant of the circuit.
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You are glutton for punishment.. A capacitor will not pass a DC current, pulsed or otherwise. You can not charge the cathode of a polarized capacitor from the cathode of a diode.
It has been a few days and I don't care to look at it again but Aaron is or will discover the following:
Capacitors store energy as an electric field and this is "potential energy." (Voltage)
Inductors store energy in the form of a magnetic field and this is the "kinetic energy" in the form of movement of electrons. (current)
So you see that capacitors and inductors are exactly opposite of what they do in a circuit other than the fact that they both store energy.
This is why a capacitor and inductor are necessary to form a resonant tank circuit. The two devices exchange and convert the energy back and forth with very little external energy required. In fact, when capacitive and inductive reactances equal each other, the impedance goes to infinity and a tank circuit draws no current from an AC source.
The extra energy Aaron thinks he sees is as always, an illusion. Since the capacitor and inductor are exchanging energy back and forth, they produce their own AC current.
I seem to recall reading some where that high frequency AC will repel both poles of a magnet thus giving Aaron the illusion that he has discovered some free energy source while in reality, he is using energy to destroy the energy stored in the magnets for a net sum of less than zero. That also happens to be how much interest I have in his idea.
I know how a gray tube works and posted some info. regarding that. Naudin's example is a well constructed and documented example. Following dissociation of H2, new bonds are probably formed at lower enthalpy and so there is a net loss of energy resulting in an overall exothermic process.
Enjoy your day.
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quarktoo, you are right, my schematic is wrong, the caps would not charge up, so I made a correction (still new to electronics).
A capacitor will not pass a DC current, pulsed or otherwise
Yes, you are right, but I believe that 2 the capacitors can generate an electron vacuum between them if they both discharge at the same time. It seems to me that a non-polar capacitor essentially becomes a positive mono pole at the moment of discharge. A cap will polarity will have more electron vacuum pulling power on one side (+) than the other.
The idea with the new circuit is that when the NPN is off and the PNP is on, the circuit charges the caps, and when the NPN is on and the PNP is off, the circuit discharges the caps.
It looks similar to a tank circuit so it should have resonant characteristics as well.
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Dogs, yer killin' me here. If you were a defective puppy, I would do the humane thing and drown you in a pail of warm water.
Buy a breadboard and try it. That burning smell will be the result of connecting the gates of a PNP and a NPN transistor together.
If we want a PNP to switch on, we connect the base to ground through a resistor. If we want a NPN to switch on, we tie the base to VCC also through a resistor. We would also bias the base in either case to the opposite charge by a resistor that is 10 times the value of that resistor.
What value are the resistors? Here is a good tutorial on transistors using bipolar transistors.
http://www.rason.org/Projects/transwit/transwit.htm
I am going to unsubscribe from the thread - good luck.
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quarktoo, I'm really not into it for the pain (and you sure can dole it out). But you have good tips (for this newbie), and I appreciate them. Well, if you can stand it! Here we go again (if not, later dude!). I haven't calculated all of the appropriate values for the resistors, but there are known guide lines depending on the transistors used.
I have yet to try it out myself.
Just looked at Bedini's battery charger, interesting how there are some similarities. But he controls his switching with a dual timing chip. And he is not necessarily splitting the positive in order to charge the battery. Curious to see what he has in-store for the public in the future.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zITqo0uKeaI Dark shot of plasma motor in dark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK-iYOimqCw Murakami-Gray 2 Point Motor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7j-gVvNk8zo Positive jumps to positive with common ground
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOhV6WTpx08 Murakami-Gray 3 Point
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNE_GOcUDnY Plasma with and without inductor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5VefzlY9sQ Murakami-Gray 3 Point plasma outside of tube
And quarktoo, if you don't understand the similarity between the plasma ignition and the Gray circuit, please limit your posts to threads that are appropriate for your misunderstanding.
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I know how a gray tube works and posted some info. regarding that.
Enjoy your day.
Well buddy, you seem very quick to dismiss the ambitions of others on this thread. Perhaps, you would care to elaborate your intimate knowledge of the workings of the Gray tube - if indeed it actually contributes anything to the running of the Gray Motor. Especially as you seem to think that a capacitor is unable to pass DC current. Maybe you do not really know how the Gray Tube works.
Now you have a good day, regards
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Well mister Bobby i hate to say, but Mr.Quarktoo is absolutely correct.
If you take a simple capacitor and connect it in series with a DC voltage source, there will be exaclty one spike when the circuit is closed.
This spike represents the charging up capacitor.
When the voltage of the cap reaches the same voltage of the source, the capacitor will stop conducting.
This is very simple to try.
As you can see this mechanism can also be used as a passive switch.
It can be used to pull the plug in a high voltage circuit, and then when voltages equal,it will abrubtly block the high voltage flow which is exactly what we need.
Extremly short high voltage bursts.
Marco.
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Well mister Bobby i hate to say, but Mr.Quarktoo is absolutely correct.
Marco.
Well mister Bobby i hate to say, but Mr.Quarktoo is absolutely correct.
Marco.
Hi there,
I have no doubt that your simple explanation works. I have been known to use this phenomena occasionally.
I also use capacitors to smooth out the DC ripple current from rectified power supplies, obtaining a continuous supply of DC current. Also, the experiment that I am working on at the moment, to simulate the Tesla burst phenomena also takes only the surface charge off of the capacitor, leaving the capacitor approximately 70% charged. Capacitors do not have to be completely discharged. It is worth the effort to try and think of capacitors as batteries occasionally.
A problem for me when setting up experiments, is the lack of initiative from the classical experts, when I might be looking for some unusual explanation. This is not to say that you are one of these. However, as you seem to have missed Tesla's concept of continuous current to provide oscillations for energy conversions, without completely discharging the capacitor, I am not surprised that you have jumped in to defend Electronics 101.
Another problem out there, is the number of clever people who jump in without giving credence to information supplied and respect for others on a forum. In regards to the Gray Tube. I would be most interested to hear of someone who can categorically state - before signing out of a thread - how this tube works. Especially, if sufficient effort is given to, for example, determining whether the actual patent has described the tube and its orientation and operation correctly. Given that E V Gray knew diddly dit about electronics. And, in particular the capacitive nature of the Gray tube. I shall not go into any further details of the Gray Tube research. Well past electronic 101.
I'll get out of your hair,
Regards
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What on earth are you blanting about man.
I can discharge a capacitor 1000 times before it goes empty.
And i will remind you, you know nothing about me so keep you pro-visions okay.
All i said was capacitors block DC and this is correct.
M.
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What on earth are you blanting about man.
What you said was this ...
"If you take a simple capacitor and connect it in series with a DC voltage source, there will be exaclty one spike when the circuit is closed."
Now I see that you are adjusting your position. I must say, as soon as I see this type of approach I know the argument is futile. Try thinking about the original statements.
Good night
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They are both the same thing.
1.A capacitor stops conducting when the voltage reaches the same level as the source voltage.
2.Therefore a charged capacitor does not pass DC.
Make up your mind.
Then you start to talk about what i am missing...
you seem to have missed Tesla's concept of continuous current to provide oscillations for energy conversions, without completely discharging the capacitor, I am not surprised that you have jumped in to defend Electronics 101.
Don't do that!
Also this:
I also use capacitors to smooth out the DC ripple current from rectified power supplies, obtaining a continuous supply of DC current.
In this case the capacitors DO NOT pass DC current.
In fact if they would, we would be dealing with a short circuit.
In this case the capacitors store energy, and release energy when the supply voltage drops below the capacitor voltage.
That's a diffrent thing, and in fact, this works BECAUSE capacitors block DC when charged to supply voltage.
Like i said otherwise it would be a dead short.
Marco.
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See this may be he has figured out how the Gray Tubes works
He is doing the same thing that Gray demonstrated in 70's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxMf3n5lxsU
Stanis