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Author Topic: Wheel + Pendulum = Steiner...  (Read 4884 times)

Offline iacob alex

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Wheel + Pendulum = Steiner...
« on: January 17, 2009, 06:57:39 AM »

  ...or a disk and a bob on the periphery of it,can develop in gravity and inertia,the  well known  Parallel Axis theorem.

     In this manner,if we have a solid,uniform disk of mass "M",with the CoG in the pivot axis,free to rotate(only!),and as a SEPARATE PART, a bob mass  "m"(m<<M),on the rim of the disk,we are ready to apply Steiner's theorem ,due to gravity fall of "m",this time.

     The starting point is with the bob in up position on the disk,the end point is with the bob in the down position.

      Between  these two positions of the bob(up to down fall=half circle trajectory),we have a variable torque(arm and tangential component),due to the gravity : bob "m" acts as a pendulum,but...dragging,turning the mass "M",inducing rotational inertia.

      By the way,if the pendulum of a mechanical clock,can be considered as an extreme of the physical pendulum concept,then a (disk+bob) configuration,seems to be another one.

     This time,we are interested not in a swinging (simple harmonic) motion of the bob,but for the up-down  fall motion,on the same side of the pivot ,only.

      So,for the moment,,we have stored rotational energy in "M" ,due to "m" :bob plays as an "actor"/driver ,disk plays as an "reactor"/follower.

      In a mechanical clock,the bob is acting as a tiny quantifier of energy,for  small harmonic oscillations(<10 degree),

      This time,the bob is playing a "full energetic game" (180 degree) and with a single,distinctive partner:the disk.

      To apply the Newton's Law (action=reaction),for this bob-disk configuration,has a certain significance: to store energy from a temporized gravitational fall and ...as a light in a mirror,to use it in some way...

       Fine primo tempo!

       Secundo tempo: if possible,a self process can be the next step .

                      All the Bests!  /  Alex

     

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Wheel + Pendulum = Steiner...
« on: January 17, 2009, 06:57:39 AM »

Offline jadaro2600

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Re: Wheel + Pendulum = Steiner...
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2009, 07:20:38 AM »
It's picture on napkin time!

Offline iacob alex

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Re: Wheel + Pendulum = Steiner...
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2009, 04:15:11 AM »

    A mass  "m" mounted on the edge of a disk "M" (M>>m),is a physical pendulum,no longer a simple pendulum.

    This elementary configuration,if possible tested,can manifest a nonlinear response.

     Most physical systems are nonlinear in nature.

     You  know the properties of a mechanical clock pendulum,so to play in the domain of linearity.

     Now,let's consider a particular circumstance of this pendulum.

     When the angular displacement of the pendulum,is large enough,then the small angle approximation no longer holds and the equation of the motion must remain in its nonlinear form.

     In mathematics,a nonlinear system does not satisfy the superposition principle,or whose output is not proportional to his input...so a possible manner to test "overunity"(output>input) !?

     A non-linear system are often studied through use of simulations,it cannot be mathematically described as the sum of their components.

    But ,you know that the best "simulation" is the direct play with the real world...so the test,the experience,the "backbone" of a serious research.

    A sensitive dependance on the initial conditions for a nonlinear system ,says that some tiny differences in input,after some time can become overhelming differences in output.

    A  heavy,full,temporized pendular fall can be a "key" to "open the gates" of an "overunity" dynamics ?!

   Who knows?Maybe yes,maybe not.

                    All the Bests!  /  Alex

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Wheel + Pendulum = Steiner...
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2009, 04:15:11 AM »
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Offline mindsweeper

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Re: Wheel + Pendulum = Steiner...
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2009, 04:41:14 PM »
Like this ?

A falling sweeper :)
« Last Edit: January 19, 2009, 05:23:10 PM by mindsweeper »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Koen1

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Re: Wheel + Pendulum = Steiner...
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2009, 05:54:51 PM »
Well I don't follow what you're trying to say exactly,
but it sounds a bit like you're saying that we can extract
energy from gravity by using a pendulum mounted on a wheel?

Perhaps you should visit Lee-Tseung's thread on "Lead-Out gravity energy"?
He's been repeating himself for years now saying something like this,
and he can't make it stick but never gives up. Perhaps, if this idea is
indeed similar, you could formulate it in a more understandable manner?

Or indeed, at least draw a picture of what you are trying to say?

regards,
Koen

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Wheel + Pendulum = Steiner...
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2009, 05:54:51 PM »
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Offline iacob alex

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Re: Wheel + Pendulum = Steiner...
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2009, 08:53:51 PM »

    Hi  mindsweeper !
 
Your image as a falling sweeper is interesting...maybe a cascade,as a gravity falling "sweeper"/brush.carry away action can be more suggestive,but what is the procedure to take out free of charge energy?

    Hi  Koen 1!

My proposal is not involving electricity,but  exclusively some mechanical spare parts. 

A pendulum (eccentric mass) falls in gravity,connected to a disk,ring("wheel") that is storing energy as rotational inertia.

This is the first step.

The second step is to use this energy so to organize a "self"(output>input),if possible.

Here we have a common,plain western science (gravity and inertia),with no esoteric oriental philosophy or mysterious words of explanation(see patents you are talking about...).

Maybe,the so called intellectual  "property" doesn't work in this case: it's ridiculous to hide,to put out of sight the simplicity ,if it can embody the reality.

Anyway,we are in the public domain...

By the way,the pendulum word-image,is not quite fit...a sequential avalanche seems more appropriate.

 In the future,I will add at my web-site some drawings,so to be easy perceived.

                  All the Bests!  /  Alex

Offline Koen1

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Re: Wheel + Pendulum = Steiner...
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2009, 02:49:41 PM »
Ah, a sequential avelanche using eccentric mass divison on a flywheel,
now that sounds like a nice idea. :D

What you're talking about sounds very Bessler-wheel style.
A gravity wheel, in other words, that uses eccentric masses
to keep the center of gravity off-center, thus causing the
wheel to turn... That kind of thing?

I have been interested in such gravity wheels using non-fixed
eccentric masses for quite some time now, and if you have
some time I'd really like to see a little drawing of your idea...?

I'm not sure how much your idea resembles other gravity wheel
ideas so I can't really say much about the intellectual property,
save to say that people have been pondering various types of
gravity wheels and often including non-fixed and/or eccentric masses
for many centuries already. I have seen designs that are said to
be over a thousand years old from India, and ones only a few
centuries old from the Byzantine region, and there's also a few
from the middle ages. But Bessler is documented to have demonstrated
a working version of such a gravity wheel in sevral towns and to
have had a large one running in his kings castle, and that was
only a few centuries ago. Besslers book of sketches may help
your thoughts on design of such a wheel?

Anyway, the basic elements sound good, now for the design? ;)

regards,
Koen

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Wheel + Pendulum = Steiner...
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2009, 02:49:41 PM »
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Offline iacob alex

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Re: Wheel + Pendulum = Steiner...
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2009, 05:21:40 AM »

       Hi Koen1 !

    In my opinion,the magic thing with gravity is that , a mass  has no inertia in a free fall.

    As I pointed in a past topic,this is as we have an "inertial discontinuity".

    So we have an "action"(free fall of a mass) without "reaction"/resistive inertia,in the time of this free fall.

    However  inertia is not missing,it is delayed  only, it comes at the end of this free fall,in a "harsh,rough "manner:the falling mass hits the ground,the huge mass of the Earth(a gigantic storage of linear and rotational inertia) and stops the motion of the small mass.
   
    You can see here again, Newton's Law/action=reaction / in a collision process at the end of an accelerating rush of the small mass to the ground.

    The physical oddity is that we have here,for the free falling period only...a temporarily suspension of the Newton's Law,also:as an action without reaction...a so strange phenomenon.

    This is why I said that gravity is magic,regarding the Newton's Law.

     Anyway,the great Newton remains valid with his law,with a condition:to apply his rule for the time when inertia doesn't work...as I said,inertia against gravity from the beginning of fall to the end of it.

     By any means inertia works,but my proposal was to wind,coil it gradually... so to find a partner for the "action"-gravity,or  to apply Newton's Law just for the time of free falling phenomenon.

     If you like,we "flow" gravity into inertia and then back,in such a manner to "open the gate" of nonlinearity.

     Here,it's possible, to find of way due to a new(so old!?) phenomenon:the nonlinear behavior for some pendular motions.

     When an "action" is "dans l' air",we have a chance to use it.

             All the Bests!  /  Alex
 

 

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