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Author Topic: An other buoyancy based idea  (Read 10841 times)

hansvonlieven

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Re: An other buoyancy based idea
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2009, 08:22:14 PM »
G'day Bulbz,

On reflection there are two flaws in the system as proposed that are unfortunately fatal.

I have little experience with ferrofluids but if I remember correctly you cannot push a ferrofluid with a magnet. From memory ferrofluids are fine soft iron particles suspended in a liquid of some kind. Whilst soft iron is attracted to a magnet it cannot be repelled with a magnet, you need an opposing magnetic field to do this, ie another magnet of opposite polarity.

The second flaw is the same as in a two liquid system. Since the floats have to be by necessity lighter than the fluid on the opposing side the pressure that needs to be overcome to push the floats around the bend as it were is greater than the column of the floats on the opposing side can generate and buoyancy works against you instead of for you.

Still, you are an original thinker and we need people like you in this forum. Good luck.

Hans von Lieven

hansvonlieven

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Re: An other buoyancy based idea
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2009, 08:24:58 PM »
Bulbz,


If the above it true, the ferrofluid near the magnet would become "solidified" and would not allow the balls to move through.  Can anyone confirm or refute this concern?

M.

You are correct Mondrasek

Hans von Lieven

spinner

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Re: An other buoyancy based idea
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2009, 08:35:43 PM »
Bulbz,
I agree, too! Very interesting and unique concept!  Excellent idea!


...
I once played with a ferrofluid demo toy.  It was two dispensing syringes attached at the end where the needle could be.  So the plungers were at each end.  The center area between the two plungers was filled with ferrofluid.  So when you pushed in on one plunger the other would push out.  The demo part was a small magnet that you could place on the center junction of the syringes.  With this magnet in place it was impossible to push either plunger.  The explanation was that the magnetic field caused the ferrofluid to act as a solid.

If the above it true, the ferrofluid near the magnet would become "solidified" and would not allow the balls to move through.  Can anyone confirm or refute this concern?
M.

Yes, I'm afraid this would happen... Ferrofluids are all a colloidal mixtures of solid ferric nanoparticles dissolved in a liquid (light oil)...
In device described, the magnet would probably cause a greater density of solid particles, and clogging of the passage...
The other problem could be leaking of the ferrofluid in the axis of the magnet. Ferrofluids don't act like a polarised "hard" magnets, they behave more like paramagnetic material... The repel would not happen like it is drawn in the picture.

Hey, just IMHO....

The concept is intriguing. If anyone has a pint of ferrofluid at hand...?  Cheers!

Bulbz

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Re: An other buoyancy based idea
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2009, 01:00:05 AM »
Hello again Guys...

If the magnet was move to the position in the picture, would the fluid act in the desired way ?. Or would some of the fluid just collect around the magnet, leaving the rest to level out ?.


P.S... I have another design in my head, but it may take me a while to draw an illustrasion. I will get back to you with that one.  ;)

Gravitator

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Re: An other buoyancy based idea
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2009, 04:52:24 AM »
LOL

I suggest you study some hydraulics, Communicating tubes would be a good place to start.

Hans von Lieven

Thanks Hans. I started my studies at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buoyancy  ???

@Bulbz

Very interesting idea  :)

hansvonlieven

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Re: An other buoyancy based idea
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2009, 08:05:20 AM »
Good on you Gravitator,

If you have any questions that you need to talk over with someone feel free to contact me. I'll be happy to help with your studies.

Hans von Lieven

Gravitator

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Re: An other buoyancy based idea
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2009, 12:32:06 PM »
Good on you Gravitator,

If you have any questions that you need to talk over with someone feel free to contact me. I'll be happy to help with your studies.

Hans von Lieven

Thank you :) I have one. I this pictures there are two nuts. In first picture nuts are in balance and in second picture
one nut is in water and it don't touch the glass at all. Why does this change the balance ?

TinselKoala

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Re: An other buoyancy based idea
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2009, 05:26:39 PM »

TinselKoala

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Re: An other buoyancy based idea
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2009, 05:37:35 PM »
Thank you :) I have one. I this pictures there are two nuts. In first picture nuts are in balance and in second picture
one nut is in water and it don't touch the glass at all. Why does this change the balance ?

I guess Hans is sleeping, so I'll answer. When you lower the nut into the water, you are displacing an equal volume of water, all the way up to the top of the water level (watch the water level in the glass when you lower the nut into it--you will see it rise slightly.) This takes work, to raise that water, and it is just this work that is returned when a buoyant float rises.
The difference between the mass of that raised water, and the mass of the nut, is your buoyant "force". It is only gravity in disguise.
Since gravity is a conservative field of force, the potential energy of a mass depends only on its height, not how it got there. The fact that some of the object's path is under water, is irrelevant to the energy balance. When you introduce a buoyant object into the bottom of a liquid-filled chamber, the very first thing that happens is that you are lifting that volume of water to the top of the chamber. As your float rises, this water "falls" back under the float--this is what makes it rise. The only energy returned is what you put in in the first place, to raise that water up.
You get out what you put in, minus losses, and the only thing that adding buoyancy does, is to make things wetter.

Gravitator

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Re: An other buoyancy based idea
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2009, 05:30:40 AM »
@TinselKoala

Thank you very much :) You are absolutely right and this was something I didn't think about.
I was wondering how it would change things if the balls are replaced with tube divided into cells.
This way the water level don't change at all.

Gravitator

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Re: An other buoyancy based idea
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2009, 10:02:48 AM »
No need to answer to previous question. I think I know the answer: I get a wet tube :D
Me and my wet balls, LOL to myself :D :D TinselKoala and Hans, thank you for helping me to understand !