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## Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: sparks on January 11, 2009, 04:43:08 AM

Title: DC poleless motor
Post by: sparks on January 11, 2009, 04:43:08 AM
Below is a motor generator that I'm designing.  There are two rings of permanent magnets.  They form a slot with the magfield spanning the slot at a constant magnitude.  Red North  Black South.  These are mounted on a disk with a turntable.
Then coming from the other end and supported mechanically is a second rotor which has current carrying conductors (going into page orange dots).  This forms a poleless dc motor type acceleration of the conductors.  My hope is to replace the conductors with pms  that are polarized to form a field replicating a dc current carrying conductor.  This rotor is used to drive a mechanical load.  The turntable trying to rotate counter the mechanical rotor has pm's that are spun in alignment with a stator having load coils on them.  This device uses inertial frame dragging to double the mechanical output as well as the magnetic relativity of the mechanical rotor conductors/pms to the uniform magnetic field across the slot   The conductors create a magnetic low pressure area ahead of them and a magnetic highpressure area behind them.  The acceleration should go unchecked unless loaded.
Haven't done alot of work with PMS except for repairing like a couple of thousand  pmdc motors.  Any magnet guys know if a pm can be made with a magnetic field around it that duplicates a dc current carrying conductor of say 25amps?
Title: Re: DC poleless motor
Post by: jadaro2600 on January 11, 2009, 05:53:26 AM
:-[ AN utterly useless suggestion... simply consider the calculations for measuring the gauss of a specific coil with an applied current and you may have your answer. http:www.kjmagentics.com (http://http:www.kjmagentics.com) have their magnet information which includes a great deal of technical specifications.  You can compare your math with the tech specs on these magnets and adjust accordingly.  You might find that the permanent NeFeB mags are more powerful that some electromags and will produce less heat.

Quote
The acceleration should go unchecked unless loaded.
Please don't smite me for saying this, but:  It should not go unchecked, either it will demonstrate hysteresis and become hot, produce heat and looses its magnetic field, or most likely - all of the above, and come to a resting potential where it expends both motion and heat to dissipate Gaussian energy present in the design.

...this is understandable, but not justifiable; the permanent magnets will all start forming links between themselves weather they're next to each other or not.   You should employ shielding which directs the mag field back onto themselves or use a diamagnetic material - like lead, but possibly something else more safe. Your high pressure area will likely link with some other low pressure area, whether its in front of the slot or not.

If you place two like poles together, their field lines will spread apart and form a contortion in the field but they will eventually lead right back to their counterpart end, they can be held close together by placing two opposite poles next to them so that a linking circle forms...like an X shape with to N and to S poles in the inside ..as you can see, the eventual structure forms an area with both north and south poles.  The idea is that the N-S arrangement always forms a N-S arrangement - ad infinitum, and fractal in nature; so long as their is a vector of magnetism, it will have a North and South pole relative to that vector as if it were a virtual cold current.

Title: Re: DC poleless motor
Post by: sparks on January 11, 2009, 02:46:08 PM
This motor just duplicates the action of a dc motor with the exception of the field being distributed in a ring configuration not requiring commutation and reversal of the current through the armature coils.  If the rotor utilizies permanent magnets instead of electromagnets then the only way to switch it off is to extract the rotor from the ring field. I may be better off using an electromagnet for field polarization.  Even this will be difficult as far as control because of the residual magnetism of the field poles.

What you are saying is that it will be difficult to create a uniform magnetic field in the slot?
Title: Re: DC poleless motor
Post by: pese on January 11, 2009, 03:10:09 PM
@spark

If this is right, that you becomes "LOSSES" with heat (!?)
That is GREAT. "SAVE" this heat ! It is Energy and do's not
overheat the magnet.
IF  this runnig "free" AND produce heat. So .. than it is an
"Free heater"   ;-)

So do not smile over this... but never give up ...
Pese

Title: Re: DC poleless motor
Post by: jadaro2600 on January 11, 2009, 08:19:16 PM
This motor just duplicates the action of a dc motor with the exception of the field being distributed in a ring configuration not requiring commutation and reversal of the current through the armature coils.  If the rotor utilizies permanent magnets instead of electromagnets then the only way to switch it off is to extract the rotor from the ring field. I may be better off using an electromagnet for field polarization.  Even this will be difficult as far as control because of the residual magnetism of the field poles.

What you are saying is that it will be difficult to create a uniform magnetic field in the slot?

It's possible that I do not understand the configuration of your design.  I don't understand where the field slot is.

You have a ring of magnets, with north facing out and south facing in ...or vise versa...  by happenstance, this appears to be similar to a single disk perendev of a derivative design.

- - - - - this may be the most cheesy thing to do, but .....
I find that when i'm so broke that I can't afford anything but playdough, then the playdough is good for designing simple mock-ups.  ...oh my pride, but that's coming from a trained machinist. :P  Silly putty is good for measuring those hard to get to spots.

Mix Flour, Salt, and Water in a 1:1:1 ratio to make playdough....food coloring may also help.  Don't use self rising flour.

Such a simple thing may help visualize.