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Author Topic: buying the best oscilloscope  (Read 10417 times)

Offline jas_bir77

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buying the best oscilloscope
« on: January 09, 2009, 07:55:05 AM »
Hi,
I am totally new to electrical circuits and mechanical setups. i do not have any formal knowledge in  the field of electronics or engineering. However I am desperately interested in making free energy devices. i  am trying to do so by learning from forums like these. Thank you to all of the guys
The problems I am facing are a lot, but I am trying to solve them.
One of the problem is that while I am experimenting with these devices, I am not sure whether what I am doing is write or wrong , so to help me out in checking my devices & improving on them, I was thinking of buying an oscilloscope. But my knowledge of electronics is zero and secondly since I am based in india I cannot buy from the likes of radio shacks or from the internet, but I do have venders over here who are selling the scopes, buy I am unable to figure out what kind of scope would be best for me.
Kindly  help me out  by telling me what features I should be looking in the scope ( while experimenting I came to the conclusion that I need the scope to see the frequency, waveform, no. of pulses per sec.amt of volts the machine is generating …). Kindly tell me if any things are missing.
Also kindly specify the amt of frequency & other parameters that are required in value terms e.g. 20Hz, 20GHz, 1000 – 1500 volts, etc.. etc.Thanks a lot in advance.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

buying the best oscilloscope
« on: January 09, 2009, 07:55:05 AM »

Offline Steven Dufresne

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Re: buying the best oscilloscope
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2009, 04:05:31 PM »
Hi jas_bir77,
I'd recommend getting as high a frequency as you can afford. I bought mine for a mid-range frequency because that's what I needed at the time. But years later, I was working on a different approach and needed a higher frequency. In this field of free energy research, you never know what direction you'll go in.

Also, make sure you get at least a two channel scope. i.e. I've found that one channel is not enough.

I don't know if they make them, but a scope that doesn't need to measure relative to ground would be great. In other words, one that can measure a floating voltage. Measuring voltage relative to ground means you connect one clip from the probe to a positive or negative part of your circuit and the other clip of the probe to earth ground. The voltage you see on the screen is the voltage measured between those two clips. Often in my devices, nothing is grounded. For example, my testatika devices. A handheld scope might do the trick for this. Someone else can comment who has more knowledge in this area.
Hopefully this helps,
Steve
http://rimstar.org   http://wsminfo.org

Offline jas_bir77

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Re: buying the best oscilloscope
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2009, 05:24:28 PM »
thanks a lot steve,
any more info regarding volts (1000 - 2000), waveform depth etc will also be highly apreciated.
thanks

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: buying the best oscilloscope
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2009, 05:24:28 PM »
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Offline Steven Dufresne

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Re: buying the best oscilloscope
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2009, 06:25:49 PM »
If by volts you mean how much voltage it can handle from the inputs/probes, mine is only 300VRMS
and I've gone past that by at least a few hundred with spikes many times.

As for waveform depth, I can't find anything in my specfications re that, or memory depth for that matter, so someone else will have to advise.

My scope is a Tektronix TDS220, relatively old.

Keep in mind, my background started out much like yours so I can speak only from my free energy and non conventional propulsion research experience, mostly involving high voltage stepped down for measurement using high voltage probes. Regarding what's good for normal electronics circuits with normal components, even for free energy purposes, someone else will have to say.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org   http://wsminfo.org

Offline jas_bir77

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Re: buying the best oscilloscope
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2009, 06:31:52 PM »
thanks steve
can you elaborate what is 300VRMS.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: buying the best oscilloscope
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2009, 06:31:52 PM »
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turbo

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Re: buying the best oscilloscope
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2009, 06:32:19 PM »
Your's is not old.
Mine is old.
It's a tektronix 556
And it's the best ive ever had.
Never liked the digital ones.  :-\

Marco.


Offline Steven Dufresne

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Re: buying the best oscilloscope
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2009, 08:11:59 PM »
thanks steve
can you elaborate what is 300VRMS.

300VRMS = 300 volts AC root mean square
It's a way of specifying the "average" voltage when the voltage is in the form of a sine wave (AC.) The actual average of a sine wave is 0. So to get some sort of useful "average", the voltage from the top peak of the sine wave to the bottom peak of the sine wave is multiplied by 0.707. The result is called the root mean square (RMS) voltage.

In this case it refers to the AC voltage that the scope can handle on input. So if N volts peak-to-peak times 0.707 = 300VRMS, then N=300/0.707=424 volts peak-to-peak. So my scope can handle 300 volts RMS, which is the same as 424 volts from peak to peak of the sine wave.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org   http://wsminfo.org

PS. @Marco, well I did say "relatively" old. And relative to yours, I bought mine yesterday! :-)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: buying the best oscilloscope
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2009, 08:11:59 PM »
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Offline Paul-R

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Re: buying the best oscilloscope
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2009, 11:35:09 PM »
Don't spend money until you have an actual NEED to satisfy.
Remember that your first scope will teach you much about scopes,
but will be a failure. The second one will be a success.

Read this very thoroughly:
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter12.pdf

and to mess around with, you can experiment with a probe
plugged into the mic socket of your sound card, and public
domain oscillocope software from shareware.com, tucows etc.

Paul.

Offline Yucca

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Re: buying the best oscilloscope
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2009, 11:38:32 PM »
Hi jasbir77

Every scope has a maximum input voltage beyond this level the input stage will be overdriven, As Steven mentions his is 300V RMS, thay´re all around that level, mine is 400V RMS. It is not wise to exceed that input voltage by too much.

Along time ago I borrowed a friends old 10MHz scope he had, he got it from his dad who´s work was "throwing it out", I was scoping the flyback on a coil that I´d built a joke electric shocker out of and I killed the scope :( >:(

So whatever scope you get be very careful to not overvolt the input, and if you do want to scope across coils then try and get hold of a 100x probe or make yourself an attenuator.

Obviously it´s nice to get a scope as fast as possible, especially when working with coils and fast transients because a slower scope will smooth your peaks and not allow you to see the details. 50MHz or more is what I would aim for.

I would recommend getting a second hand one from a decent manufacturer instead of buying a brand new scope from an unknown manufacturer, the good makes are more rugged and you can get parts for them easier if needed. Plus you will sell it easier if you ever want to.

I have a Tektronix2431L, bought it second hand from a German surplus equipment supplier on ebay. I really like it because it has sampling for one shot analysis and is built really solidly (every Tektronix is!). A scope that samples is called a DSO (digital storage oscilloscope). If you can get sampling then it´s well worth it.

Happy scoping!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: buying the best oscilloscope
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2009, 11:38:32 PM »
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Offline MrMag

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Re: buying the best oscilloscope
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2009, 11:55:01 PM »
Yucca,

I have to agree with you. Tektronix scopes have always been number one in my book. As a matter of fact, I have two of them. They are built very solid because they are used not only on the workbench but also in the field. There are a lot of them out there and if you can find one in your price range, I would highly recommend it.

Tim

Offline pese

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Re: buying the best oscilloscope
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2009, 12:20:49 AM »
@jas-bir  @all

use first, not the best, use, the simplest to "learn"
and is USEFULLY for most aplication, the the guys
here working with.

Use an Software Scope.
(Free download to finf with google)

That work over the soundcard.

If you "search for software", than look also
for Frequency generator (via soundcard)

Gustav Pese

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: buying the best oscilloscope
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2009, 12:20:49 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: buying the best oscilloscope
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2009, 12:54:06 AM »
I agree, and I disagree. As usual.
An oscilloscope (or two, or three...) is an absolute must for anybody looking at electronic "free energy" or any interesting electronics projects.
Pese is right that the pc-based soundcard software scopes are a great way to learn how to use the scope. But I do lots of stuff that I don't want anywhere near my computer, so I use a cheap stand-alone, bullet-proof, 10 Mhz (but fast rise time) dual beam Philips 3233 (not the 3232 below) which has discrete transistors all in sockets, no ICs...so if something blows it is easy to fix.
Dual is essential--dual trace is good but dual beam is better. I prefer analog but good fast analog scopes are expensive and hard to find.
Digital scopes are really nice because they usually have math functions--so you can multiply traces and integrate over time. This is how you determine power with an oscilloscope. If you use the analog scopes you can trace the trace on tracing paper, cut it out and weigh it, to do the integration.

You can't be too rich or too thin--or have too many oscilloscopes.

Offline jas_bir77

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Re: buying the best oscilloscope
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2009, 07:05:20 AM »
@ all
thanks a lot to all of you.
now after reading your posts i think i would first try my hands on the idea of using the sound card till the time i am able to understand what i am doing actully (since i am electronics + engenering illiterate)
thanks a ton, guys

turbo

  • Guest
Re: buying the best oscilloscope
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2009, 07:30:07 PM »
Hi  :)

I have used my Laptop soundcard as scope, and i blew it.
Please be carefull with that.
Another disadvantage is that it only goes up to 20.000 Hz or so.

I also have a digital Pc- scope, but i do not use it much because i am too affraid to destroy the input.
CRT scopes are the best, mine can take up to 600 volts without a problem.
It's all tube's inside and it consumes 840 Watts quite much for a scope.

Marco.




Offline TinselKoala

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Re: buying the best oscilloscope
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2009, 09:16:04 PM »
Hi  :)

I have used my Laptop soundcard as scope, and i blew it.
Please be carefull with that.
Another disadvantage is that it only goes up to 20.000 Hz or so.

I also have a digital Pc- scope, but i do not use it much because i am too affraid to destroy the input.
CRT scopes are the best, mine can take up to 600 volts without a problem.
It's all tube's inside and it consumes 840 Watts quite much for a scope.

Marco.





See there!
It probably keeps you warm in the winter too.
Up with analog oscilloscopes!!

 

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