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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: Goat on January 09, 2009, 05:54:12 PM

Title: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Goat on January 09, 2009, 05:54:12 PM
@ All

I am starting this thread with Gadgetmall's permission in order to expose his feedback to source Bedini circuit to everyone that may have missed it in the other threads.

I find his approach quite amazing and unique in that he is using a separate coil to gather and feedback energy to the source!   

Here are his videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LczzeeyfFoA  also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRnYQvYEwkM

There is some information that is lacking and replicating his setup will take some information gathering but here is his latest circuit and component values.

@ Stefan - Would it be possible to give Gadgetmall or my account permission to post the latest information gathered at the beginning of this thread so that people will not have to go through all the posts to find the relevant information?

Regards,
Paul Gauthier
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Goat on January 10, 2009, 07:59:11 AM
@ Gadgetmall

No Rush on this request, whenever you get a chance  :)

I'm trying to put together a Materials and build list to try to replicate your setup.  What I'm looking for are questions regarding the following components:

Welding Rods - Type ?
Length of Welding Rods ?
PVC pipe for primary coil- ID/OD (I think you mentioned 1/4" ID in your video) ?
Length of PVC pipe ?
Primary Coil Wires - 2 wires as per circuit, CW or CCW?
Primary Coil End caps - What type of plastic and size?
High Voltage Diode going to Primary from capacitor - Type & Values?
Primary Coil Winding - There's a discrepancy on your video regarding the gauge size of the wires used, is the size in the above schematic the latest and correct for the wire size?
Secondary Coil Winding (Piggy back coil) - ID/OD X Height?


That's it for now, I'll probably ask you more questions later  :P

Regards,
Paul










Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Goat on January 12, 2009, 01:00:08 AM
@ Gadgetmall

Again, no Rush on this next set of questions, I know it's a lot to ask but whenever you get a chance. 

Amendment 1:

1.  Welding Rods - Type ?
2.  Length of Welding Rods ?
3.  PVC pipe for primary coil- ID/OD (I think you mentioned 1/4" ID in your video) ?
4.  Length of PVC pipe ?
5.  Primary Coil Wires - 2 wires as per circuit, CW or CCW?
6.  Primary Coil End caps - What type of plastic and size?
7.  High Voltage Diode going to Primary from capacitor - Type & Values?
8.  Primary Coil Winding - There's a discrepancy on your video regarding the gauge size of the wires used, is the size in the above schematic the latest and correct wire size?
9.  Secondary Coil Winding (Piggy back coil) - ID/OD X Height?
10.  Weight of Primary coil?
11.  Weight of Secondary coil (Piggy back coil)?
12.  Base of Primary coil, materials used?
13.  Size and Strength of Neo magnets used on HDD motor and Platter plates? 
14.  Neo magnets facing N or S at the coil core?

Thanks again for making your videos available for all to see, you certainly got my attention  ;)

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on January 16, 2009, 05:52:04 AM
@GOAT
Paul, here is the latest Cleaned up Schemitic and i will try to find the time to fill in the blanks .I am a Single daddy with a 7 year old girl and we have a Birthday party this weekend and lots of preperations to make .   Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2009, 12:00:08 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@ Gadgetmall

Again, no Rush on this next set of questions, I know it's a lot to ask but whenever you get a chance. 

Amendment 1:

1.  Welding Rods - Type ? i will try and find out by a welder . they were junk yard picks-rusty
2.  Length of Welding Rods ?will measure
3.  PVC pipe for primary coil- ID/OD (I think you mentioned 1/4" ID in your video) ? 1/4 sch 20
4.  Length of PVC pipe ? will measure later
5.  Primary Coil Wires - 2 wires as per circuit, CW or CCW? CCW
6.  Primary Coil End caps - What type of plastic and size?TEFLON cut in  2 inch DIA circles
7.  High Voltage Diode going to Primary from capacitor - Type & Values?RCA SK3606
8.  Primary Coil Winding - There's a discrepancy on your video regarding the gauge size of the wires used, is the size in the above schematic the latest and correct wire size? correct in new schemitic .Verified 16 and 20
9.  Secondary Coil Winding (Piggy back coil) - ID/OD X Height?will measure later
10.  Weight of Primary coil?..minus the core  5 1/2 pounds
11.  Weight of Secondary coil (Piggy back coil)?a tiny bit over 1 pound .i have a postal scale no grams
12.  Base of Primary coil, materials used? Bakalite i think . it was the mercury relay base .looks like it has some fiber in it ? kind of heavy but looks like plastic too ?? I dont know but its from the 60's 
13.  Size and Strength of Neo magnets used on HDD motor and Platter plates?  ebay Cylinder 1x1/4 n48
14.  Neo magnets facing N or S at the coil core? N
15. i would like to add that the piggyback coil might be wound cw or ccw . there is some black stuff sealing it and the outside layer is like black cloth or fabric . i peaked at it and got the wire size but no real indication of how it is wound so ???? Varable. I think the aire core hole has somthing to do with the properties . also i dont know if its copper or aluminum or what because it terminates in a sheathing with connectors crimped on it . Couild be iron copper aluminium gold silver . i dont know but i know its worth a lot to me .No its not for sale unless you got a million dollars ;D
Best regards guys . i will return
Al AKA fusionchip AKA 4Chirstonly1 AKA GADGETMALL  :-X
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Goat on January 16, 2009, 06:01:06 AM
@ Gadgetmall

Thanks for the PM, lot's of good information, I appreciate your help and your time very much! 
Please point out mistakes if any.

Amendment 2:

1.  Welding Rods - Type ? 

(Undetermined - local surplus scrap yard -  number of rods and there exact length TBD)

2.  Length of Welding Rods ?

(Length TBD with 2" sticking out past length of 1/4 inch schedule20 pipe)

3.  PVC pipe for primary coil- ID/OD?

(1/4 inch schedule20 pipe)

4.  Length of PVC pipe ?

(2" less than the length of welding rods)

5.  Primary Coil Wires - 2 wires as per circuit, CW or CCW?

(Wound counterclockwise starting from the back of the coil)

6.  Primary Coil End caps - What type of plastic and size?

(Teflon cutting board cut to 2 inch circles)

7.  High Voltage Diode going to Primary from capacitor - Type & Values?

(RCA SK3606)

8.  Primary Coil Winding - correct wire size?

(500 feet is correct the size is correct in schematic 16/20 )

9.  Secondary Coil Winding (Piggy back coil) - ID/OD X Height?

(5000 ft number 32 clockwise) 

10.  Weight of Primary coil?

11.  Weight of Secondary coil (Piggy back coil)?

12.  Base of Primary coil, materials used?

(Bakelite)

13. Shield? 

(Shield made of steel and ferrite)

14.  Size and Strength of Neo magnets used on HDD motor and Platter plates?

(Ebay Cylinder 1x1/4 n48)

15.  Neo magnets facing N or S at the coil core?

(North)

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on January 18, 2009, 07:17:58 PM
H@all . ok im still trying to improve this circuit to obtain real use of my machine with inverters . I have experimented with a reed switch in series with the primary power coil which slowed down the rotor and produced more power . It was an experiment and i will probably hard wire it in later . Also i have been testing a second Trigger coil as pictured and i think i like this the best . it spins much faster and i will be running this setup to determine if it sucking power to fast and i lose the ove unity i have with one trigger . i will run this setup for a bout a week and let yall know if this is an improvement or not .. the extra trigger is in series with the primary trigger . also in the second photo i have added a second transistor in parallel with the first one hoping to improve the draw of voltage on my primary to attempt another try at running off the caps alone . The first attempt left me with a pile of bad 2n3055's as the voltage coming off the piggy back coil is too high for the 2n3055 and Blows them instantly . Maybe two in parallel will increase the capacity to 200 volts and not kill the circuit . i will let you know after a week of running the 2nd trigger . One note comes to mind . I don't think the setup is critical other than the fact that the coil configuration of any bedini could be changed with the core protruding out the back of the coil . the reason i am telling you this is if you have a bedini already make a new coil like mine and use an experimental piggyback on it and see if you get the results i do . the more windings on the primary the less current it will draw . Mine can run on as low as 6 ma's . and as high as 500 ma's . I built a bedini for my brother not like my design except we left the core open and i put my piggyback coil on his machine . It (primary)remained the same running voltage for 6 hours thus proving that the design is not to critical . i think with a little rewinding of the coil i made for him it would self run too . the only think is he tried to wind a coil like mine but wound it on a longer pvc sticking out the back and it did not produce the voltage or current My Magic coil does . BUT he did not use tiny wire . i think it might have been 26 and i think he wound it counterclockwise the same as the primary . he gave up cause it took days to unwind the wire from a BIG toroid for his piggyback and left it like that . I guess when we get the time to undo it and rewind it the other way with the same wire we would get better results .. Ok go for it !!!!!
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on January 19, 2009, 07:44:42 PM
@GOAT
        i stopped the test to take a picture of My piggy coil . here it is . i will try and find ruler and post it later in the week the dimensions ..
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Goat on January 19, 2009, 07:57:20 PM
@ gadgetmall

Thanks for posting the picture of the piggyback coil. 

I have a brother in law that works in industrial electric circuits, I will forward him all the information you gather and I'll try to find out if he's ever come across an old Mercury solenoid with a coil like this in his line of work.  He possibly might know of other units that use a similar coil.

Edit:  Was the solenoid switch that you had look something like this (see picture below) and did it have any markings on it that you would still have access to?

http://www.mercuryrelays.com/shoppingcart/agora.cgi?&product=35amp

Again sorry for all the questions and please do not pressure yourself to find the answers.

Thanks again,
Paul
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on January 19, 2009, 08:01:54 PM
This Coil is the key along with My Geometry of the Master core Material Sticking out the back . I think rather than replicate the whole thing Build a Bedini with a large gauge twisted pair  CCW as a Normal Bedini is . and leave the core open air core then experiment with different rods, or i thought of using bailing wire cut up in bunches might have even better results than i have now . My core is not glued or coated and can be removed easily and i will try the bailing /electric fence wire and see if the results i have improve more . My goal now that i have it recharging with over unity is to create More power for bigger battery's and run stuff from an inverter off the switched primary to secondary . I don't think this will run off capacitors as they just don't have the properties of a real battery and this is going to need a real battery for overunity effect i get . I don't know why a battery works and a cap don't but the battery is another key to self runner producing usable power ..  I would concentrate on the piggyback coil replication first then if you already have an existing Bedini coil replace the core with materials i have suggested protruding from the back and i bet you will see Good if not overunity results . Also the piggyback coil produces over 70 volts on the ac scale without any bridge or cap ,Just open . Then one my Brother made did not produce more than 11 volts ac ????
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on January 19, 2009, 08:20:24 PM
The Gold Disks i use are from one of the first hards drives made by Segate and i understand  the platters are made with platinum, gold and palladium along with Aluminum . But this don't matter !! Because it self charges in oscillation mode even stronger sooo i would not worry about the material of the rotor . its the coils !!! and the way they run with minimum current draw . that is another key . get your bedini running at 10ma or less either turning the rotor or solid state ! That is all i can do for now . i'll come back later in the week with some test results and coil measurements . Kirk out !
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Goat on January 19, 2009, 08:25:08 PM
@ gadgetmall

Thanks again for the information you just provided, the 70 VAC from the piggy back coil is indeed interesting.  I myself have tried many different configurations of the Bedini but none were ever close to what your getting.  Your replication is quite different as I was following most of the original advice of "no departing from the original circuit and components in order to understand the concept" but that never seemed to work for me.

Your circuit however uses much different components as we see that you use heavier wire for the primary than the original circuit(s) and also the use of the neo magnets instead of ceramics, also the use of the bridge rectifiers, caps with neon's, heavy duty diode back feeding etc.

You're quite right in saying that it could probably be replicated using different components like wire instead of welding rods and other things, I'm just trying to post as much information about the original components for posterity.

I think you came up with something that works for you that didn't work for most of us using traditional methods so that's why I'm trying to document as much as possible your circuit and components so that others may eventually come up with a working model such as yours.  Sort of like the ongoing effort in the Joule Thief thread.

Please don't feel pressured to answer all the questions as you made it quite clear that you are a single parent and raising your child should take priority and I certainly wouldn't want you to mess with your original circuit like taking apart the piggy back coil.

Regards,
Paul


Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on January 19, 2009, 08:36:43 PM
Hi Goat . Nope this thing was on a platform made of ceramic material or something 3 inches wide and 6 inches long base  . I have the mercury switch somewhere . it Is the same size of the coil core made of aluminum and 4 inches long filled with mercury and heavy and something that slides up and down inside it . it was mounted vertical so gravity held it in the open position and when the coil energizes the thing inside goes up and contacts . it was high amperage stuff in a large control cabinet i still have outside housing my inverters and control electronics for solar ,Bedinipowersupply , inverters and small battery's for charging My 1100 pound 24volt forklift battery ..
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on January 19, 2009, 08:58:45 PM
Paul i am flatter that you are trying to replicate the total design of mine but as i stated it runs without the rotor too . And i don't feel pressure and want everyone who wants to use the knowledge i have to make there own self runner . I just can't believe that with all the other self running devices that are made i am the only one to share this information . I can't make money on this because the main design is Johns so i can't claim the Big  overunity dollars even thought i would like too . I am in it for the Power i get for Free not the money . And i will help YOU anyway to prove that what i have here is indeed free power and i'm not another Nut case . I don't lie . i am a Baptist Christian a good father as i have full custody of my Daughter and Love all God Fearing people with a positive outlook . As i said i have been looking for free energy for over 15 years . During that 15 years i became Close to Barbara Hickcox the inventor of a perpetual spiral magnet "cold fusion " generator and was about to have it in my possession before she disappeared off the face of the earth . I have all of the correspondence and plans and a video of the working unit but i promised not to show it because my life would be in danger .You can look up her invention in a patent search . I even Had a web site set up many Years ago describing the device and overunity.com had been in contact with me way back then .I pulled the web pages down as per request  as She did not want the attention and for good reasons  i see now .My Gadgetmall tag of newbie is misleading  :)  !. God Bless ya !
Albert  edit .. OH im a Jr Member now . COOL !
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Goat on January 19, 2009, 09:07:58 PM
@ gadgetmall

Whoa  :o  You meant REAL Mercury  :o :o  I hope the mercury container was missing when you got the cabinet! 

I was looking at the brand name Mercury but never caught on that it was that type of switch...lol

I just found an old roll of 34 gauge wire I had lying around, I'll wind a spool up and give that a try to see what kind of voltage it gets on the back end of my existing bifilar coil. 

Thanks,
Paul
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on January 19, 2009, 10:02:54 PM
Whoa  Shocked  You meant REAL Mercury  Shocked Shocked  I hope the mercury container was missing when you got the cabinet!

What do you mean , It still has the mercury in it . from the feel of it about 2 OZ'S of the presious metal . Its sealed up in aluminum and hey i found it here it is !! Now that i look at it and know that mercury eats aluminum i don't thing its aluminum . it must be steel or some other metal . Still works too .
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: innovation_station on January 20, 2009, 06:10:14 PM
so now it does get VERRY INTRESTING....  ;D

sure more answers     why not ...


i have in the past found solutions for mercury .... non toxic ....

lol

but lets ask why murcury would aid this process if it were nontoxic ...

 ;D

anyone ever study BRUCE DEPALMA.....  THE N MACHINE.....  ;)

ist

Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on January 21, 2009, 05:26:42 AM
@IST
    Hey  William  :o .."If you can imagine it,
 it's imaginable -if it's imaginable, it must be real."
- Bruce DePalma, 1997 .Welcome  8) can you contact me about what we discussed > i need some projects and some Help as im out a something and need to talk  Thanks Bro . ..
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on January 21, 2009, 04:03:42 PM
@All. i Discovered an interesting thing with some of my Bediniepowersupply Energizers . .. two of them will feed back to them selves and charge themselves . Thats all they do is run the fan . Its like a Toy .I use the positive output wire only ! not the negative ! the negative will be a direct short !! Check the Video I made a while back on the First Bedini Power Supply I made and discovered everything to build one in in a ATX PC powersupply to build a Bedini ..with the help of imhotem modification to the Fans . I just finished My 9th one last night and put the positive output lead to the positive running primary .Remember NOT THE NEGATIVE OUTPUT WIRE TO THE NEGITIVE PRIMARY (DIRECT BATTERY SHORT )  it slowed down but keeps running and recharges the battery all night ,Im making a video of this now .. The new one i build with a large 48 volt brush less fan but the video not made yet  .. Now john Bedini said you couldn't do this . He was wrong or either misleading us to believe that and as for following his EXACT instructions , that is a load of CRAP . Just use his Basic circuit design and use what you have . you will achieve the results and possible Better like i did ..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyPxMgqaId8
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on January 22, 2009, 04:05:51 AM
The  Video of My 48 volt FAN Bedinipowersupply self runner is uploading now !!
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: sandwichx on January 22, 2009, 04:25:08 AM
Ohm's law:

v = i * r

v = voltage
i = current
r = resistance

It doesn't matter what you do. If you increase the voltage the current will decrease. Your better off trying to recover energy from something that already exists like building a solar oven to create steam.

You'll never get any of the things on this site to work due to ohm's law. Please start looking in other directions that can get results! Don't waste your ambition!  :-\
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Mk1 on January 22, 2009, 05:41:24 AM
@sandwichx

Thanks for stating the obvious , The only problem a got with that law is there is no time factor.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on January 22, 2009, 09:01:10 PM
 Hello SandwhichX 
             Your old Laws Don't apply to this Project But they do on other things . Its all ready built and working . This Is Unconventional Physics where there is more involved not even including the Free Energy we can Capture off the Free Spinning Magnets .. Have you Built One ? We are Not " Wasting Time" On this forum . There are some Brilliant Minds at work Here . Read and Listen and you may Learn Something !

Here the New Video . It took a While cause Windows Media Player kept Crashing and Internet was Lost Several Times ..
Explain This Sandwhich !!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbSV-BqGnYw
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on January 23, 2009, 01:53:59 AM
Here is the Back of the Fan. I have three of them . They are not onsale anymore and are out of stock so no part number now . Sorry .. Heres the schematic .. I found some more on the internet and they are CHEAP 1.75US http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/category/220100/Fans/D.C.-Fans/1.html
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Goat on January 23, 2009, 07:06:43 AM
Hats off to you gadgetmall  :o

After seeing your post to Utube and the schematic I gave your video a 5  ;D

As usual though, and I hate to be a pain in the A$$ but, future OU truth seekers like me will need a couple of questions cleared up eventually, so to clear things up in the future here goes....

From the schematic above at: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6519.msg152301#msg152301

What is the Transistor model and specs?
What is the Capacitor model and specs?
What is the resistor model and specs?
What is the Rehostat model and specs?

How was the motor modified?  (A Bedini/Imhotep fan tutorial with pictures is needed here! 
Help from Anyone interested in contribution is greatly appreciated). 

Can you tie this circuit to the battery then to a JT circuit to get continuous load on the battery so that it doesn't fry?....LOL...if so how many LED's?

Regars,
Paul





Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on January 23, 2009, 08:46:58 AM
@Goat
     Hey . I have been asked to do lots of things with this . My only thought was to set it on a shelf and let it click until the battery fried :) BUT i will probably put a voltage Divider on it and run a Joule Thief with 40 or 50 Leds and Check the results after a week or so . All the parts were in a grab box from Goldmine electronics .. Nothing special . I have two more fans exactly like them and i am going to build two more and most likely use different parts , what i got laying around and see if i get the same results . The Special thing about this one is the FAN . It is Bigger and has lots more wire on them  AND the Diode on the Primary , thats all there is to the big Secret . . When i get the time i'll get ma Magnifier out and tear it apart and get what i can but it aint going to make no difference i don't think . How is that Piggy back coil coming ?Let us know . I know anyone can do this one as the parts are there to get .. no biggi on the transistor use any npn with a low base high gain high volts ... I put the Neon on it cause it charges up a cap a couple hundred volts kinda quick and so again the neon keeps the volts down . I guess i was lucky the transistor dosnt go from all the spiking i do with it jumping the out to in . POW!! But it Runs and Runs .. .. As far as the battery i could probably start a moped with it a couple times and run a few thousand led or run an inverter for an hour or so but Im only guessing .. :)I have played with it all night long and today and the battery is still 13.78 so its defiantly receiving a charge from the fan .It Squeaks its little heart out . One thing is i broke the little ring that hold the fan on and its being held on by its own magnitisium . It was made of paper or something and tore in half so i just left it out . It stays its own fine ASfar as the Mod to the fan its standard . I don't have permission to post any picture from the imhotep lab but you can see here from My how to make a PowersupplyBedini Video where i Bust a fan to PIECES and Put it all back together  :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSdM4J44Q3o  I had to break the 48 volt fan of the base and glue it back . i don't know where imhotep gets his fans from cause out of nine i never saw one that just Slid off . they are glued and don't move !you have to break them from the plastic case ..
Al
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Goat on January 24, 2009, 10:10:27 PM
Hi Al

Ok so I finally found that roll of wire and it is 34 gauge but there's less than 1/2 pound left, so I'm not sure how it compares in weight to your coil. 

I have an old coil from an older Bedini setup that's Bifilar 22/26 AWG, 2" X 2" with 3/4" center hole and approximately 750 turns and the 1/16" brazing rods are sticking out about 1/2".   

I went to town today but unfortunately the only store in town that carries magnet wire didn't have 34 or 32 gauge so I'll have to go with what I got for now. 

On the bright side though I was at another store that carries a bit of surplus fan motors and I found an NMB 48 Volt fan motor!  It's not quite like yours though, it has a speed sensor on it but there are 3 wires going into the motor like yours, the model number is NMB5920PL-07W-B49.

I really wish we had Goldmine electronics stores here in Canada, most of the time you have to drive to several stores to get what you need at exorbitant prices, I really envy you guys in the states for that hahahaha.

Anyone know of decent surplus electronics stores here in Ottawa?...LOL

Ok so here's a snapshot of the motor with the fan off of it, the coils are serially wound from what I'm seeing and the stator seems to be glued onto the shaft.  I got the interior snap ring out but it still won't budge.

How did you manage to pull your stator out, was it by leveraging the PCB (printed circuit board) with a screwdriver or am I missing something here? 

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on January 25, 2009, 01:16:37 AM
Goat  broke it out with a screwdriver . they are Glued in all of them i have seen f you look at the video i posted a few posts up about how to build a powersupply bedini  i first break the circuit board as much as i can with a screwdriver  becareful not to break the three legs off as they have the litle wires on them once you see the base i break it off by rocking it back and forth till i get it to break out usually it breaks right around the hole but sometimes you break the case too .you cannot get it off without breaking the base that is glued to the case so some of the casing is coming with it and you have to breakit so you can add the post to the bottom . there is no way around it as they ARE GLUED WITH SUPER SUPER GLUE i used goop to glue em back and add the post as there was hardly no where to put the 4th post .  the link i provided the fans you can order then online .. 1/2 of pound of 34 should be close to a mile  . i think a pound of 32 is a little over a mile  5280 some feet
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Goat on January 25, 2009, 03:36:43 AM
gadgetmall thanks for the answers but I was referring to the 48 volt fan, I pried the circuit loose from the base but the rotor is still firmly in place  :P

Regards,
Paul

Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Goat on January 25, 2009, 05:32:53 AM
@ gadgetmall

I've analyzed this fan for a couple of hours while doing other things and it's not like the little plastic fans and won't pry out :P

Looks like the only way to get the rotor off is to punch out the stator shaft from the base and press it back in.

Let me know if there's a better way.

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on January 25, 2009, 06:09:12 AM
paul you don't understand . BREAK IT OFF . there is no way to punch it out . there is or was when it was made a piece of plactic from the case that they slid thecoil on and glued it . DID YOU even look at my video ? If you did you would see that you have to BREAK it . CRACK it Just GRAB the COILS AND ROCK IT BACH AND FORTH HARD UNTIL IT SNAPS THE PLASTIC OFF THE BACK OF THE FAN . if you do it like i did the 48 volt fan you will only break a little off the back  if you did it like my video you will have bunches of plactic to glue back  :) Don't look at IMHOTEPS video because i didnt learn nothing from it . once you break it off there is one post with two wires on it you will have to separate them and add the extra post for the extra wire . ohm em out and mark the sets and your good to go . the only other way to get it off is use a dremal tool and cut around the hole in back but then you wont have nothing there to glue it back.A gash you will have to fill un some how . I break them and the glue back easy look at the back of the fan you see that copper that looks like its punched it . its not it holds the berring for the back part of the roter . you will have to break the plactic around copper . I grab the coil and snap it off having to flu only the part on the back i snapped off which is the rotor plus the little of the case that broke with it . It will Align perfectly if you are careful and rick it until you see the plastic on back start to stress and turn with then snap it off.!!!!
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Goat on January 25, 2009, 06:56:45 AM
@ gadgetmall

I appreciate your help.

You sounded a little frustrated in your last post, please don't be, just don't answer me if somehow I get your blood pressure going...

I understand what you're saying it's just that the 48 Volt rotor has a steel post and is an aluminum frame bottom and the rotor won't break away from it!

I've watched both yours and Imhoteps videos and I've had the same results as you for the plastic fans where I ended up gluing everything back as you did....but this one's different.

Because of the steel post on the 48 Volt fan the stator is not budging short of taking a hammer to it!  I've already pried on the stator short of damaging it (I hope I didn't) but so far the easiest method still looks like punching out the shaft to get at the stator.

I know that my model number is slightly different than yours because of the speed control, maybe it's construction is different (the picture was posted above).  The picture here is of the bottom where you can see the stator shaft and how it's pressed in.

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on January 25, 2009, 08:41:11 AM
Im sorry i looked back at my post and yea My Bp was up . You have a unique fan . I have never seen one with an a cast frame . Interesting . Mine had a speed sensor on it also. three wires red black and white.. well shoot . i would try just heating up the back a little and see if the glue comes loose if there is any and i suspect there is . maybe a hair dryer on the back for a while then get a rag and see if it will come loose if not i guess the only way is to beat it up or  dremal it out . if you had a hole saw that might work ???as i said you can order these fans now there is another place  i posted you can get them like i got .Another thing is i want to help yall . i had a few bad comments on the powersupply bedin saying it was a scam and some how i faked the video . that pissed me off . then there was another guy that told me DMM dont measure right with High frequency . I know that but its  filtered DC going to the battery no pulses and then he said the lead acid battery was somehow heating up creating the illusion of charging up when it was really discharging . What a Crock , I am Redoing the experiment with nicads or a gel cell and redoing the video. the problem is it only gives me 10 mins on utube and there is not much i can show cause the voltage goes up slowly , just slightly over unity and if i do it in time lapst then there goes the door open for more criticisms  . you know i am proud of what i did and i don't really care anymore if someone don't believe me or it . at least i am happy with My inventions and they do what i want them to do for ME.. .  G nite bud ..
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on January 25, 2009, 11:45:51 AM
Im sorry i looked back at my post and yea My Bp was up . You have a unique fan . I have never seen one with an a cast frame . Interesting . Mine had a speed sensor on it also. three wires red black and white.. well shoot . i would try just heating up the back a little and see if the glue comes loose if there is any and i suspect there is . maybe a hair dryer on the back for a while then get a rag and see if it will come loose if not i guess the only way is to beat it up or  dremal it out . if you had a hole saw that might work ???as i said you can order these fans now there is another place  i posted you can get them like i got .Another thing is i want to help yall . i had a few bad comments on the powersupply bedin saying it was a scam and some how i faked the video . that pissed me off . then there was another guy that told me DMM dont measure right with High frequency . I know that but its  filtered DC going to the battery no pulses and then he said the lead acid battery was somehow heating up creating the illusion of charging up when it was really discharging . What a Crock , I am Redoing the experiment with nicads or a gel cell and redoing the video. the problem is it only gives me 10 mins on utube and there is not much i can show cause the voltage goes up slowly , just slightly over unity and if i do it in time lapst then there goes the door open for more criticisms  . you know i am proud of what i did and i don't really care anymore if someone don't believe me or it . at least i am happy with My inventions and they do what i want them to do for ME.. .  G nite bud ..

Hi Gadgetmail

The way to prove that your setup works OU or near to it is to reduce the size of your battery down to say 2.8A/hr and then monitor the discharge voltage. I too get a rise but it does eventually fall. Its to do with battery internal resistance alterations. A big battery will show a slow rise of terminal voltage over a considerable period of time.

It does not really matter whether people believe or disbelieve you, whats important is not to delude yourself.

Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: AhuraMazda on January 25, 2009, 01:27:41 PM
It is easy to prove if your system is OU in a short time. Use a large capacitor, charge it up and instead of a battery, use the capacitor.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on January 25, 2009, 04:27:33 PM
@hoppy . ok i am doing that i have one of the smallest 12 1.2 amp hr batterys they make  . it is brand new . i will build one more cause i have more fans an parts  and test that theory . also i have some little nicads . it will run on 6 volts also i will try it that way too.
@AhuraMazd
 Been down that road . it blows transistors . it need a buffer ,the battery . Voltage is way too high as you see in the video it put out over 100 volts in less than 1 min thus a Big bang . that will just blow the circuit .
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Thaelin on January 26, 2009, 12:52:52 PM
Hi Gaget:
  You are so right here. The battery buffers the spikes that are returning from the coil.
Without it, the high voltage will be sent directly back into the transistor when it fires. I
doubt that a general purpose transistor can handle that. I tried to use a 12v regulator
back to the source and it blew that too.

thaelin
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on January 30, 2009, 05:57:44 PM
ok i have donr just one test so far on the 48 volt bedini . It is running off of a 6 volt battery at 6.54 volts now for 4 days . it is at unity ! the volts remain at 6.54 - 6.55 . that is a long time running this . the adjustment is very  very touchy to the poing where the fan stops and the fan runs drawing current . there is a sweet spot for the feedback . I will have to get another pot to put in series but right now i am jobless , Disabled and out of money except for  the child support My x is paying . its for my girl . we will see how things are going in a month or so before i buy anything else from the junk yard. I have had a lot of comments that they tried to reproduce this and they say is was shorting out . i dont know if they were using 12 volt fans or 48 volt . i can say that My 12 volt fan bedinis stop running with the exact same circuit . i think this is due to the low resistance in the coils . My 48 volt fan is high resistance . It wont stop and i can turn the pot up to where the fan runs fast but no charge even with the feed back on . Just a little slower on feedback  than with it off.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 02, 2009, 11:50:00 PM
New Video Shortly just have to cut it in half . Its the 48 volt power supply bedini  Inside View off the kitchen table to show no external connections . Its for  a rebuttal for comwarrier64 . and showing it charge up a brand new battery . He Said he replicated it and it didn't work cause HE KNOWS Basic Electronics  and ITS a FAKE . lol  well his rep was not this he left out the most improtant thing the 48 volt fan with the high resistance. and the transistor i used .. and the 17 amp diode and he is a jerk like Desertphile .

Here is what i think is happening .. I think during the Off Cycle or BEMF Cycle is going back thru the Transistor Due to reverse breakdown of the Transistor i am using . Thus it take the path of lease resistance which in this case is the battery . the resistance of the coil and diode is approx 71 ohms . That  is why it wont stop when i Feed back the high voltage spikes ..
 comming soon ................ :o
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: raykos on February 03, 2009, 01:43:46 PM
Hello 'Gadgetmall',

   I'm interested in your circuit, and maybe I missed some other posting, but could you please let me know what a "K-101 Mil" is?  It looks like a capacitor, but I'm not familar with that designation.  If it is a capacitor, could you let me know it's value? 

Thank you,
Ray
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Thaelin on February 03, 2009, 02:33:34 PM
your cap is 100 pf +-10% and was manufactured for the military use.

Here is a good site to use for figureing values
              http://www.electronics2000.co.uk/calc/calccap.php

thaelin



Hello 'Gadgetmall',

   I'm interested in your circuit, and maybe I missed some other posting, but could you please let me know what a "K-101 Mil" is?  It looks like a capacitor, but I'm not familar with that designation.  If it is a capacitor, could you let me know it's value? 

Thank you,
Ray
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: raykos on February 03, 2009, 02:36:53 PM
Thank you.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: raykos on February 05, 2009, 05:33:39 PM
Hi all,

   I'm trying to gather parts to build this circuit; however, I'm having trouble finding the 550uf 400V capacitors. The one site I found(Mouser Electronics) wants $27.00 ea.! 

   Does anyone know of any other suppliers?


Thanks,
Ray
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 05, 2009, 05:52:45 PM
@ all . I get most of My stuff froma Millatay surplus Scrap yard . I get a bucket fill it to the top and give him 2 dollars for 50 pounds of component s. thats why i experiment so much . I love junk :) heres the new Video of the power supply bedini inside and out .. Also its a rebuttal for conwarrier69 who mad or supossedly made a replication . No he did not ..
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aspnQPnaj1g
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: raykos on February 05, 2009, 06:17:29 PM
'Gadgetmall',  thanks for the response, appreciate it.  And, if I may, pay no attention to the naysayers.

This is another example of those who have gone before us knowing what they were talking about when they would try to teach us not to pay any attention to that kind of negativity.  I think this quote would be appropriate:

    "Those who say it can't be done, should not bother those who are doing it."

So, anyhow looks like I'm going to have to scout around looking for an "electronics boneyard"!

Thanks,
Ray


Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 06, 2009, 05:52:20 AM
@Gadgetmall

great work! I am also replicating your experiment but for now I only have the 12 volts fans ( I ordered 3 48v fans, they are on the way ).

Would you be able to put a schematics of exactly what you have done on the latest video? I know it is a bedini SSG but you inserted a cap in series to the pot plus a diode and so on and it is not very obvious where things are connected. Would you please?

In my setup I using a 12v fan I replaced your cap (the one after the collector diode) with a charging battery but with another 200v 4000uf cap right before the battery in series and this setup when adjusted the pot until the voltage on that cap increases will also self-run. It is absolutely incredible!

Soon I will also post a video, but first more testing.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 07, 2009, 03:49:52 AM
Today I got my 48v fan and I could not stand the excitement of modifying it and put it to work. It was very easy to open it remove the existing circuit and modify the poles from 3 to 4. I did not even needed to install posts to hold the wires I just solded the wired to the enameled coils and bend them into place. Put all together and replaced my 12v fan with the new 48 fan.

AND, guess how well it runs? IT IS GORGEOUS. It really runs in self-mode and charge another 100amp/h battery.

This fan runs extremely quiet and the signal is just the very known Bedini H curve signal. BEAUTIFULL!!!!

I can witness that this indeed works.

I will post pictures, videos and so on. I am on the works!

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on February 08, 2009, 01:17:23 PM
Hi all

I have replicated gadgetmails self runner circuit and I can give it a provisional thumbs up. I did not use a fan and instead wound a bifilar on an empty copper wire spool with 0.2mm dia ECW. The strand resistance is 70 ohms and the iron core is made from welding rods. The circuit is as per gadgetmails except I needed to add a diode in the connection between the cap pos and battery pos. A tap from a magnet is needed to start the oscillator and then left attached to one end of the iron core. after I dump the cap to battery, the oscillator continues at a low frequency only if the cap is of a high enough capacity. I found that 470uF works as does 220uF but low value caps will not work.

My battery does initially climb in voltage after the cap is dumped but stabilises out eventually. This is partly just the battery being taken off load from charging the cap but if a reasonably heavy load is applied for a short period, the battery does appear to re-charge quite quickly and returns to a voltage very close to the stabilised voltage. If the battery is left just powering the oscillator, it does not appear to discharge despite the 17mA being drawn by the oscillator. The circuit has been running for 18hrs so far without a drop in battery voltage. Another 24 hours will give me a better idea of whether anything special is going on after at least half an ampere hour has been removed from the battery.

I have attached the circuit shematic.

Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on February 08, 2009, 02:43:38 PM
@ gadgetmall

I picked this out the following from an earlier post of yours: -

"i had a few bad comments on the powersupply bedin saying it was a scam and some how i faked the video . that pissed me off . then there was another guy that told me DMM dont measure right with High frequency .....

I would say you should be delighted that you got a response like this from John Bedini. In my book it means you maybe onto something! I have seen similar responses from him to other people who in my opinion started to get 'too close'.

Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on February 09, 2009, 09:55:54 AM
Further tests have shown me that there is in fact no charging effect with my setup. The oscillations are being sustained at a very low current, in my case around 14mA. My waveform has a very short duty cycle and the power consumed by the oscillator is barely enough to illuminate a red LED very dimly. The effect of this is that the battery is under an extremely light load. The initial rise in terminal voltage after the cap dump can be quite prolonged but the terminal voltage will stabilise at some point very close to the original unloaded battery voltage. After this the discharge is extremeIy slow and in this very light loading condition the 'Peukert effect' effectively increases the ampere hour rating of the battery, making it very difficult to see a reduction in battery terminal voltage even over long periods of time. It can be better seen using a very low capacity battery that is slightly sulfated (has high internal resistance). I used a small 2.8A/hr SLA which was in bad condition.

I would agree with John Bedini in this case that self charging the primary battery is not possible with this setup. It is an illusionary effect caused by recovery after cap discharge.

Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 09, 2009, 06:12:46 PM
@ Hoppy,

thank you for your response. I was very excited too in the beggining. My new setup with 48v fan running with two brand new 12v 5ah SLAs seams to have the exact same effect, slow discharging but still discharging.

It would be great if gadgetmall could give a more detail schematic and component parts so that I could replicate in more perfection.

So far for me, even though I was very excited with my initial results, is that it is indeed discharging when using an SLA. I also must say that under a flooded lead acid battery I still do not have a conclusive result because my battery is 100ah and therefore will take a good week to see any results.

I have not given up yet, I am still testing different configurations.

Fausto.

Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 09, 2009, 06:18:24 PM
Further tests have shown me that there is in fact no charging effect with my setup. The oscillations are being sustained at a very low current, in my case around 14mA. My waveform has a very short duty cycle and the power consumed by the oscillator is barely enough to illuminate a r
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 09, 2009, 06:25:11 PM
Further tests have shown me that there is in fact no charging effect with my setup. The oscillations are being sustained at a very low current, in my case around 14mA. My waveform has a very short duty cycle and the power consumed by the oscillator is barely enough to illuminate a red LED very dimly. The effect of this is that the battery is under an extremely light load. The initial rise in terminal voltage after the cap dump can be quite prolonged but the terminal voltage will stabilise at some point very close to the original unloaded battery voltage. After this the discharge is extremeIy slow and in this very light loading condition the 'Peukert effect' effectively increases the ampere hour rating of the battery, making it very difficult to see a reduction in battery terminal voltage even over long periods of time. It can be better seen using a very low capacity battery that is slightly sulfated (has high internal resistance). I used a small 2.8A/hr SLA which was in bad condition.

I would agree with John Bedini in this case that self charging the primary battery is not possible with this setup. It is an illusionary effect caused by recovery after cap discharge.

Hoppy
thank you hoppy and others  for replication and testing results  . the only thing i see wrong with that setup is you are using a sulfated battery . John Bedini himself said Overunity is in the Battery . If you use a bad battery then all the work it produced is going to desulfinating and not charging . I used a new battery standing voltage 12.84 after half hour 12.58 after an hour 12.60 . If i could make a suggestion and run your test once more with a Clean battery as mine shows a Charge after three days ..thanks again even if you prove that it is only an illusion it a dam good one eyh ? I have attached  a schematic of the best i can see . Its just a standard bedini circuit with the addition of the primary rectifier . is it possible that the transistor is breaking down on the bemf pulse and charging that way ?
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 09, 2009, 06:50:50 PM
Hi all

I have replicated gadgetmalls self runner circuit and I can give it a provisional thumbs up. I did not use a fan and instead wound a bifilar on an empty copper wire spool with 0.2mm dia ECW. The strand resistance is 70 ohms and the iron core is made from welding rods. The circuit is as per gadgetmails except I needed to add a diode in the connection between the cap pos and battery pos. A tap from a magnet is needed to start the oscillator and then left attached to one end of the iron core. after I dump the cap to battery, the oscillator continues at a low frequency only if the cap is of a high enough capacity. I found that 470uF works as does 220uF but low value caps will not work.

My battery does initially climb in voltage after the cap is dumped but stabilises out eventually. This is partly just the battery being taken off load from charging the cap but if a reasonably heavy load is applied for a short period, the battery does appear to re-charge quite quickly and returns to a voltage very close to the stabilised voltage. If the battery is left just powering the oscillator, it does not appear to discharge despite the 17mA being drawn by the oscillator. The circuit has been running for 18hrs so far without a drop in battery voltage. Another 24 hours will give me a better idea of whether anything special is going on after at least half an ampere hour has been removed from the battery.

I have attached the circuit shematic.

Hoppy
Hoppy . Being you see some of the effects and you wound your own coil and you know the Ma'draw of your circuit could you not wind another secondary over that and come up with the extra milli amps . I think so .This circuit should not work at all but as you all see it does Feedback .thank you .
Albert
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 09, 2009, 07:07:03 PM
@plengo
   thank you for attempting to replicate . i have not tried it on a very high amp battery yet . Here is the schematic you requested with the additions . i forgot to put the value of the osc cap . its 1mfd 200v NON-pol cap ..  the other thing is the little glass diode on the  base /collector . i don't know the value . it might even be a zener . i just grab what i got check the transistor for pins where npn or pnp  and go with it . i do know that my fan unit will blow a 100 volt cap on the secondary so be careful . it put out over 250 volts without a neon . i didn't want to blow the windings so i use a neon
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on February 09, 2009, 07:21:01 PM
thank you hoppy and others  for replication and testing results  . the only thing i see wrong with that setup is you are using a sulfated battery . John Bedini himself said Overunity is in the Battery . If you use a bad battery then all the work it produced is going to desulfinating and not charging . I used a new battery standing voltage 12.84 after half hour 12.58 after an hour 12.60 . If i could make a suggestion and run your test once more with a Clean battery as mine shows a Charge after three days ..thanks again even if you prove that it is only an illusion it a dam good one eyh ? I have attached  a schematic of the best i can see . Its just a standard bedini circuit with the addition of the primary rectifier . is it possible that the transistor is breaking down on the bemf pulse and charging that way ?

Thanks for posting your schematic.

I would point out that my first attempt was with a very well conditioned battery. I used the much smaller sulfated battery to show that the battery was in fact discharging. IMO you could wait a very long time to see a voltage reduction using even a small new and good conditioned battery. Ideally, the test needs to be conducted over a week or more, not just a day or two. I saw no movement downwards at all over 48 Hours using my well conditioned 20A/hr battery. As I mentioned earlier, Its important to realise that the Peukert effect works in reverse when very small loads and the very small load being presented by this circuit gives us a battery with a very high effective capacity.

Hoppy.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 09, 2009, 09:15:48 PM
I also used brand new SLA that I just purchased at RadioShack on sarturday ($34.99 each ouch!!). They had resting voltages at 12.65v both. So I assume they were indeed new and never used.

I ALSO understand, based on my over 200 load tests that I did on the past over an SSG, that SLAs are horrible for converting the radiant energy into negative energy (as Bedini explains). Flooded cells are much better and react better with this kind of energy but again testing against my 100amp/hour battery would take me literaly weeks before seeing the effect of 15ma draw of power from this circuit.

I will try again, off course, the schematic presented by gadgetmall (thank you for the schematics and keeping us informed). I will test against my new SLAs, my old SLAs (very bad damaged batteries) and my flooded lead acid ones.

Ah also, I fell to mention my 48v fan has a 150 ohms resitance on the two windings together and another 150 ohms on the other two windings together which makes me believe that each widing or pole is really 75 ohms.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 09, 2009, 09:20:28 PM
@plengo
   thank you for attempting to replicate . i have not tried it on a very high amp battery yet . Here is the schematic you requested with the additions . i forgot to put the value of the osc cap . its 1mfd 200v NON-pol cap ..  the other thing is the little glass diode on the  base /collector . i don't know the value . it might even be a zener . i just grab what i got check the transistor for pins where npn or pnp  and go with it . i do know that my fan unit will blow a 100 volt cap on the secondary so be careful . it put out over 250 volts without a neon . i didn't want to blow the windings so i use a neon
@ gadgetmall

are you sure the diode on the base of the transistor is connected correctly? would it be the other way around? the way I see it sounds like it is shorting the battery via the trigger coil.

[Edit] not really shorting the battery (sorry about that) but it is different of the regular SSG.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on February 09, 2009, 09:39:19 PM
Hoppy . Being you see some of the effects and you wound your own coil and you know the Ma'draw of your circuit could you not wind another secondary over that and come up with the extra milli amps . I think so .This circuit should not work at all but as you all see it does Feedback .thank you .
Albert

gadgetmall

I did try another coil but the loading stopped oscillation.

I have tried again with your latest circuit showing the rather strange 'reversed' diode on the transistor base and it does oscillate under certain conditions but still no battery charging is evident. I've also tried it the conventional way round and it still does not charge. If you are really are charging a battery to a decent voltage then you really do have something special here. How long does it take to add 0.1V to the battery voltage from just after you dump the cap and can you take your battery right up to fully charged above 14V? Also, what frequency is your circuit oscillating at after cap dump?

Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: hoptoad on February 09, 2009, 11:58:37 PM
are you sure the diode on the base of the transistor is connected correctly? would it be the other way around?

Yeh, it seems to be shown incorrectly. I would think that the transistor would not turn on with the diode shown in that polarity direction and connected across the base to ground. It would act as a shunt across the base, unless the diode is silicon with a 0.6v turn on and the transistor base to emitter junction is germanium with a 0.2 to 0.4 volt turn on.

Cheers
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 10, 2009, 12:18:39 AM
@hoptoad,

hey, good do see you hoptoad. Excellent stuff of yours about the Adam's motor that you sent. I really liked your explanation about "why" it works as it works.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 10, 2009, 02:30:47 AM
@plengo
   thank you for attempting to replicate . i have not tried it on a very high amp battery yet . Here is the schematic you requested with the additions . i forgot to put the value of the osc cap . its 1mfd 200v NON-pol cap ..  the other thing is the little glass diode on the  base /collector . i don't know the value . it might even be a zener . i just grab what i got check the transistor for pins where npn or pnp  and go with it . i do know that my fan unit will blow a 100 volt cap on the secondary so be careful . it put out over 250 volts without a neon . i didn't want to blow the windings so i use a neon
So I am running a new series of test using the schematic of gadgemall with the diode on the base of the transistor "as it is on the schematic" (inverted). Surprisingly enough it runs!

The minimum I can say for now is that this circuit when using the cap and connecting the positive of the battery to the cap it runs a lot more economically than without. Somehow the returned energy to the battery seams to alleviate the load on the battery and help to run longer.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: hoptoad on February 10, 2009, 04:52:34 AM
@hoptoad,

hey, good do see you hoptoad. Excellent stuff of yours about the Adam's motor that you sent. I really liked your explanation about "why" it works as it works.

Fausto.

Hi Fausto, I'm glad you liked my explanation. If you are talking in particular about my explanation of the accelerating effect caused by the passive generator pickup coils during heavy load, the explanation can still be considered as only an opinion, and I'm open to other explanations, provided they can be backed up by more than just assertions and assumptions.

You may be aware that I've been keeping track of Thanes thread, and recently there have been some interesting points made by other forum members about longitudinal permeability variations along the length of a core.

If indeed Thane is able to get more torque and speed with his arrangement than would otherwise be available if the generator coils were not present at all, then it is quite possible that the effect is not only due to the reasons I outlined, (which only explains core drag negation) but also due to other effects in the core.

In other words, the acceleration beyond no load rpm may be attributable to more than just one effect occurring simultaneously. That might help to explain why the acceleration effect is so variable in its manifestation and why some cores seem to work well and others don't work at all.

I'm still waiting for more data and possible explanations before I make up my mind, and I'm in no hurry to make a definitive choice from the  explanations presented thus far, including my own explanation.

Cheers and KneeDeep  :)

P.S. Sorry for being a little off topic here.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 11, 2009, 04:30:29 AM
@ All . Hoppy and others i am very happy to inform you that this is not the Peukert effect' . I had convinced My self after running one for 4 days that is was indeed something else . So i said to Myself . If it really is charging then i can take a dead battery(conditioned with a bedini for 3 months )  with just enough juice to run it and see .Mine will run on less than 4 volts  Well I took a battery and Discharged it with a 12 volt light last night  and it was very dim this morning . Voltage was a wopping 10.09 volts  I hooked it up to Powersupplybedini48 .feed it back  the fan was barley turning draw was a mild 5 ma. Tonight My dead battery is almost fully charged 13.08 volts !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So . Its the real thing dudes . I am hooking up some LEds to run while its charging and see if there is enuff current to run a load/indicator and selfcharge . Its really working Guys .!!!! Replicate it as i have done with this exact fan transistor and rectifier .. I have a few dozen spares of the rca rectifier for 20 dollars each . I have not found a source for them other than My goldmine as you will see . i posted the link a few pages back  to buy the fans for 1.75 us .. Get them while you can .thats  DIRT CHEAP and THE BIGGEST BRUSH LESS FAN YOU CAN GET .pretty soon they will be out and if i am the only one with them they will be much much higher . they are worth there weight in gold .  this is proof in my book . I will be auctioning My prototypes on ebay very soon to gather up some funds to live on your money back within 10 days of testing and returned units  . I promise . also i am changing some parts for the next one . it will consist of a custom  enclosure . led to replace base diode to tell its on during self oscillate mode because when its tuned just right  you cannot hear it so it needs an indicator .there will be a reserve on them for the auction . How Much is proof of self charging worth . . right now id say a whole lot and if this can be made much bigger with large 110 volt window fans rewired and modded i see an inverter in that picture . I have shared a lot of things on this site and have given all you need to do it yourself . From now on i have to say i am backing out for awhile and concentrate on making some money from My Circuits and ideas . If anyone in the world needs money its me . we are broke . on food stamps . losing my truck soon . i owe 14000 more dollars on it and my income is less than 500 per month for me and My 7 year old daughter . I am permanently disabled with vertigo nasua and migrains as there is nothing further after almost 3 years of treatment that the docs can do . Do you Blame me ? If yall can't make it . well then i can but they are going for a price . take care and good luck !
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 11, 2009, 06:02:10 AM
I also used brand new SLA that I just purchased at RadioShack on sarturday ($34.99 each ouch!!). They had resting voltages at 12.65v both. So I assume they were indeed new and never used.

I ALSO understand, based on my over 200 load tests that I did on the past over an SSG, that SLAs are horrible for converting the radiant energy into negative energy (as Bedini explains). Flooded cells are much better and react better with this kind of energy but again testing against my 100amp/hour battery would take me literaly weeks before seeing the effect of 15ma draw of power from this circuit.

I will try again, off course, the schematic presented by gadgetmall (thank you for the schematics and keeping us informed). I will test against my new SLAs, my old SLAs (very bad damaged batteries) and my flooded lead acid ones.

Ah also, I fell to mention my 48v fan has a 150 ohms resitance on the two windings together and another 150 ohms on the other two windings together which makes me believe that each widing or pole is really 75 ohms.

Fausto.
just a note that the charge test was done on a wet cell motorcycle battery . John Bedini is right that overunity is in these battery's. I also have a very large Bank of Forklift wet cells 24 volt bank i restored with My other Large sg . she is hot now with three inverters on it now total 8000 watts at 120vac 60cycles . Its being charged with  4 panels i bought from the carrizo plant in California for dirt cheap each panel is i1footby 4 feet so i have a4x4 foot setup tracking the sun with a homemade sat dish mount and setup producing 28 volts 9 amps in the sun . this used to put out 29 volts 15 amps so after almost 20 years they lost a little . you can buy them as they change them every 10 or so years , they focus mirrors on them and get 10folds off the silicon solar cells so they are slightly Brown when  i got them . back then they were 100 per panel . these panels would normally be 1700-2000 new each . investment on My solar panels forkliftbatterys and inverters is 1000 dollars . I got a deal on a trace inverter its sine wave and the other two inverters i found in the military junk yard . she runs the house for 5 days as i have a backup 12 volt freezer/refrigerator i picked up at a flee market for 20 bucks . it was used by the Nc agricultural Lab team to keep frozen fish samples on the road . I like alot . it has a tiny compressor in it and runs off a dead 12 volt battery all day long . Sweet ..i know :)  . well i have electricity now when they come to shut me off . so lights and entertainment and keeping food cold is no problem .
I have been in the free energy stuff for a very long time and it needs to pay off now . keep at it . it works .try a zener in place of the diode on base . .I did that it charges faster with the fan running just barely ,not in osc mod . it must be the pulses ? . i don't know and i don't care really . i don't need to know how it works all i need is the benefits it is  give me .That goes for My piggyback system . it runs 24-7 . i need to put it to good use when spring gets here . It just overcharges sla batterys and burns them up . I dont have an automatic switcher made yet so i have frankinstine knife switches i have to remember to throw every several days . EDIT . I forgot about Water . The Bastards shut My Watert off and i am paid up!!. If it isn;t one thing its the other .
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 11, 2009, 06:13:22 AM
@ gadgetmall

are you sure the diode on the base of the transistor is connected correctly? would it be the other way around? the way I see it sounds like it is shorting the battery via the trigger coil.

[Edit] not really shorting the battery (sorry about that) but it is different of the regular SSG.

Fausto.
Its so tiny that yes it probably goes the other way  . . it should be as a standard circuit , i did not reference it with his circuit but then again the diode is very tiny and glass . i could not see the mark for anode . another thing is it might be a zener . i dont know the breakdown voltage . it came from a atx power supply .
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 11, 2009, 07:07:20 AM
gadgetmall

I did try another coil but the loading stopped oscillation.

I have tried again with your latest circuit showing the rather strange 'reversed' diode on the transistor base and it does oscillate under certain conditions but still no battery charging is evident. I've also tried it the conventional way round and it still does not charge. If you are really are charging a battery to a decent voltage then you really do have something special here. How long does it take to add 0.1V to the battery voltage from just after you dump the cap and can you take your battery right up to fully charged above 14V? Also, what frequency is your circuit oscillating at after cap dump?

Hoppy
Im not that great in math these days . at 5:35 am my wet cell test battery was 10.09 volts  at 10:00 pm it was 13.08 . can you figure a rate of charge . i cant say about the frequency as i did this test without the cap so it was spinning very very slow and just the tinyest squeak .. It is a sweetspot and the next one is going to have another 10 turn pot on it will do that fine adjustment .
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on February 11, 2009, 04:10:02 PM
Im not that great in math these days . at 5:35 am my wet cell test battery was 10.09 volts  at 10:00 pm it was 13.08 . can you figure a rate of charge . i cant say about the frequency as i did this test without the cap so it was spinning very very slow and just the tinyest squeak .. It is a sweetspot and the next one is going to have another 10 turn pot on it wo do that fine adjustment .

Hi Gadgetmall

That's very impressive! Have you thought about enetreing for the OU prize on this forum?

Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 11, 2009, 04:53:37 PM
Hi Gadgetmall

That's very impressive! Have you thought about enetreing for the OU prize on this forum?

Hoppy
Its mostly John bedinis circuit . I don't need a copywriter lawsuit :) It would be all over the energetic fourm  and He has enuff money he would sue me ... . Believe me i thought about it ..and itmakes me wonder why Bedini himself hasn't Claimed  the prize . HMMM.. MIB o yeah .
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on February 11, 2009, 06:14:27 PM
Its mostly John bedinis circuit . I don't need a copywriter lawsuit :) It would be all over the energetic fourm  and He has enuff money he would sue me ... . Believe me i thought about it ..and itmakes me wonder why Bedini himself hasn't Claimed  the prize . HMMM.. MIB o yeah .

He's first got to prove it to everyone and that's very difficult if other people can't get his design working OU for themselves.  ;)

Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 13, 2009, 05:32:57 PM
I have been trying every single possible combination on this self-runner with varied results. I can make it run extremely economical, even though it is using 20ma the battery thinks I am using only 5ma, which means I can extend the run-time to 4x.

I have not succesfully made a self-runner YET but I think I understand (if gadgetmall is being honest and accurate, which I think he is) how this could possibly work.

Below are two pictures of the circuit, the first is gadgetmall design and the second is how I see it. You will notice that on the second circuit you will see basically two LC circuits that are only sharing the negative of the battery and they are mutally inducing to each other a resonance. Each LC (the one on the left and the one on the right) are also exclusively in resonance if the correct parameters are chosen. Once they are both in resonance and mutually affecting each other the whole circuit becomes a resonant LC circuit (LC3).

Once that LC3 (the whole circuit) is in resonance it will cost the battery very little to run it and that is in line with my data during my tests. Also notice that picture of the scope shots. They are showing two waves from two probes, one probe on the base of C1 and the other probe on the anode of the diode D2. They are showing (at least in my non-expert eletronics view) two almost identical signals but inverted from each other or in reciprocity. This makes me believe that when LC on the left is running to its maximum the LC on the right it is also running to its maximum but with opposite sign, therefore conserving the total energy of the system (as one would expect from an resonant circuit).

But now notice the spikes on the end of each wave, they are 300v spikes (when the the capacitor C2 is not in use). I think those are the free elements of the whole process because they ARE the radiant spikes (as Bedini says) and they are created during the collapsing of the magnetic field in the coils of the fan. They are not BEMF only. Those are free (we did not pay for it) and they are the ones that charges the Lead Acid battery (as Bedini said it again) when the "special diode" D3 is used, because D3 will force that radiant energy to go to the battery only.

Therefore it is possible, at least in my humble theory, to run this circuit in resonance and self-running mode as gadgetmall claims. If I am right I think the next approach is to increase the number os those spikes while continuing to maintain the resonance of all three LCs circuits (the one on the left and right and the third being the whole circuit).

What do you guys think?

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on February 14, 2009, 12:13:24 AM
Hi Fausto

I ran my high resistance coil on a Bedini rotor and found a couple of sweet spots without C1. With C1 in circuit I could only get self-oscillation. Connecting the output (C2 pos) to the battery resulted in the lowest current draw around 5mA but no self-charging with or without C1. I can only think that there is something special about the fan that Gadgetmall is using. The only other possibility is that his meter battery is low which could cause reading errors.

Hoppy

Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 14, 2009, 04:03:04 PM
Ok guys, my first results using a Lead Acid Battery running the SSG (aka gadgetmall) in self-oscilation mode (the fan is not rotating) is that it is indeed increasing the voltage of my battery.

It is using a wopping 3.45ma (I know hilarious) but still managing to charge the battery. It is charging the battery so slow that even letting any battery sitting in a corner would loose more energy faster than this is gaining, but nonethless it is indeed charging. No, it is not depleted battery on my meters because I am using 4 different meters and I charge their batteries many times a day. Now here is the even more hilarious, it increased the voltage in a huge amount of .... 0.01v (I know it is ridiculous).

I have tested this battery discharge in the same rate (3.45ma) and it will loose 0.01v in less them 1 hour but running this modified SSG will gain that much in a few hours so there is something here.

There is a fine line where the resistance in the pot at the base of the transistor start making the total consumption go up when you decrease the resistance or decrease, but there is a spot where the current usage it the minimum (as in hitting the bottom of a bell shaped curve). Only there the system works.

My next step is to create a second SSG mod circuit and try it with the fan spinning.

Below are pictures of two probes connected at the bottom of C1 (see previous posts) and at the anode of D2. First is both signals separated and the second is both with their zero at the center of the screen to show their superposition. This time you can not see the high voltage spikes simply because they are totally absorved by the battery. Third picture is one probe only at anode of D2 at 10x and 5v divisions (all pictures are at 5v division 1x probe except the third and fourth picture) with the return path to the battery disconnect so that you can see the high voltage spikes and the fourth picture is the same as the third plus the other probe at the C1.

BTW, this does not work with gel cell or sealed lead acid battery neither capacitors.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 14, 2009, 05:27:53 PM
Hi Fausto

I ran my high resistance coil on a Bedini rotor and found a couple of sweet spots without C1. With C1 in circuit I could only get self-oscillation. Connecting the output (C2 pos) to the battery resulted in the lowest current draw around 5mA but no self-charging with or without C1. I can only think that there is something special about the fan that Gadgetmall is using. The only other possibility is that his meter battery is low which could cause reading errors.

Hoppy


Hello Hoppy . No My fluke battery is new , I also have 4 DMMS and 4 analogs .. they indicate Voltage rise .. There is one thing Special  maybe two..or three
No1. the keeper is off the fan .....No2  the fan is mounted with the blades down and is holding itself with the magnitisim  no. 3 i put a hard drive magnet on the fan to help hold it on . (i forgot about it because it was black and My eyes arnt that great .. So it might be getting extra pulses from the extra magnet  ???? i don't know all i know is it works . At least you see it is a very efficient circuit , way more than a normal Bedini ..It  does its best with the fan just barley turning .. 
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 14, 2009, 05:34:10 PM
Ok guys, my first results using a Lead Acid Battery running the SSG (aka gadgetmall) in self-oscilation mode (the fan is not rotating) is that it is indeed increasing the voltage of my battery.

It is using a wopping 3.45ma (I know hilarious) but still managing to charge the battery. It is charging the battery so slow that even letting any battery sitting in a corner would loose more energy faster than this is gaining, but nonethless it is indeed charging. No, it is not depleted battery on my meters because I am using 4 different meters and I charge their batteries many times a day. Now here is the even more hilarious, it increased the voltage in a huge amount of .... 0.01v (I know it is ridiculous).

I have tested this battery discharge in the same rate (3.45ma) and it will loose 0.01v in less them 1 hour but running this modified SSG will gain that much in a few hours so there is something here.

There is a fine line where the resistance in the pot at the base of the transistor start making the total consumption go up when you decrease the resistance or decrease, but there is a spot where the current usage it the minimum (as in hitting the bottom of a bell shaped curve). Only there the system works.

My next step is to create a second SSG mod circuit and try it with the fan spinning.

Below are pictures of two probes connected at the bottom of C1 (see previous posts) and at the anode of D2. First is both signals separated and the second is both with their zero at the center of the screen to show their superposition. This time you can not see the high voltage spikes simply because they are totally absorved by the battery. Third picture is one probe only at anode of D2 at 10x and 5v divisions (all pictures are at 5v division 1x probe except the third and fourth picture) with the return path to the battery disconnect so that you can see the high voltage spikes and the fourth picture is the same as the third plus the other probe at the C1.

BTW, this does not work with gel cell or sealed lead acid battery neither capacitors.

Fausto.
Very Nice and Congrats on your Sucess replicating My Circuit . thank you for proving  i am not nuts :) Try the magnet on the fan and invert the fan so gravity pull on the fan itself and lose the keeper (be careful the back bearing tends to slip up and then you have to reset it . )
 .01 volts is still a Gain . and with a bit more tuning you will get it . BTH  Youll  see once you get the  YKW  .The Effect you are seeing is Close to exactly what i am seeing . You need a Well Conditioned Wet cell battery Conditioned with a Bedini . Charged and Discharged many times . It will receive the Charge form our powersupplybedini a lot faster .Also i LOVE your Scope Shots , that tell the Story just like i said . . and i DOn't think i have ever Seen such a perfect h waveform ..
Best Regards
Albert
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 15, 2009, 04:14:07 AM
@gadgetmall

I did the trick with the magnet and put the fan upside down. Definitely it improved it. The magnet helped in keeping the "beating" or pulse to its minimum while still spinning without over speeding and using too much current. My setup now is using about 6 to 8ma and spins at 200 to 300 rpm. With the magnet I am able to keep it just spinning slow enough but because of the weight of the magnet it is enough to continue spinning until the next pulse which keeps things going (inertia helps).

I am trying to accomplish with the slow speed is to have 50 or more pulses per rotation which ARE the radiant spikes that recharges the battery while the transistor is turning off, therefore sending the signal back to the battery when the current is NOT flowing FROM the battery. It is very tricky because Bedini said many times that you can not charge a battery when it is in running mode. In other words, one can not take current out and put it in "at the same time", BUT one can take current out, stop and put current in, which is exactly what we are doing here (current or radiant energy in this case).

Concerning the battery being "condidionted", I not only agree with you but also kind of theorized (quietly to myself) that it is working for you because exactly that. When the battery is conditioned it will convert the radiant spike into real energy much faster. I was even going to ask you that but you said it already on the last post (THANK YOU). This totally confirmed my theory that the next step would be to make it run with the same signal that I have before (show on my previous post's pictures) but with many more spikes (and here is a few pictures to show my new waves).

Another interesting thing is, if I run this system not tunned properly and while it runs it runs the battery down, lets say I run it for 2 hours. I can stop it and let the battery rest and it will charge itself up to a higher voltage all by itself. This is in total agreement with what Bedini said about radiant energy and his technologies. I have not being able, YET, to make it self-runner with the FAN running, only in self-oscilation mode.

I guess it is only a matter of experimenting more and trying to fine tune it with different transistors, diodes, resistances on the base of the transistor and capacitors. I will get there.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: hartiberlin on February 15, 2009, 07:51:32 AM
Hi Plengo and Gadgetmall,
please have a look at these 2 PDF Files I got from a researcher by email.

He also uses 2 LC circuits specially coupled and states that this works
like a Pommerlau system and it selfruns.

Maybe you can check this out, as your circuits are very simular now,

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Here is the main PDF File:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=get242

and attached is a drawing from it and the other original PDF file.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: jonnydavro on February 15, 2009, 09:29:44 AM
Hi, This utube video by comwarrior69 will be off interest.He has a circuit which feeds back from the trigger coil and it also validates gadgetmalls claims. ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY4pSOsqNvY
                                                                      regards jonnydavro
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Paul-R on February 15, 2009, 04:03:00 PM
this works like a Pommerlau system and it selfruns....
...or even a Pomerleau system, for those planing to use Google. (Daniel Pomerleau).
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 15, 2009, 04:36:14 PM
Thanks Johnny for the update . He told me he had replicated and it would blow My mind . This is yet another conformation that My Circuit works ! Keep at it  guys . This is one of the first FREE ENERGY DEVICES released to the Public  and being FULLY Described in Plain English and with the Help of My friend Pentgo he is giving a very good explanation with Scope Shots . thanks Pengo and others for helping Validate My Claim . I have one more SelfCharging /running Circuit i  will release after i take care of  Securing a Crude patent .and i am Proud to be the inventor of it (Well Bedini threw us a Chewed Bone). thanks all .
Albert
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 15, 2009, 04:40:40 PM
Hi Plengo and Gadgetmall,
please have a look at these 2 PDF Files I got from a researcher by email.

He also uses 2 LC circuits specially coupled and states that this works
like a Pommerlau system and it selfruns.

Maybe you can check this out, as your circuits are very simular now,

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Here is the main PDF File:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=get242

and attached is a drawing from it and the other original PDF file.
Thanks Stephan . Lucky for me i have My work Dated on open Source and a Copy Of the Schematics mail to me unopened and sealed last lear:)
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 15, 2009, 05:16:38 PM
Although Comworrier69 is not attaining Ou  because of his  various test mods to My Circuit and Claim  . I achieve much better cop . probably COP 1-2  where as his replication is not using the Transistor and rectifiers nor the 48 volt fan  i  discovered the transistor breaks down on the Off Cycle of transistor because  of and High Bemf is triggering the base and leaking back thru the transistor in reverse .I am only Guessing but it is obvious to me that would be the only way the circuit will actually charge the battery  Hv is taking the path of least resistance which would be from the collector thur the emmiter thru the battery negative and return to the coil . The Voltage drop of My Diodes are much less than .5volts where his is 1.5 volts i believe he said ?
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 15, 2009, 11:31:15 PM
some updates. I am running now with the FAN spinning. Target current is under 8ma (around 6 to 7.5 ma)  because it seams that my 100amp/h battery is not that conditioned as gadgetmall is. I used this battery for my 200 load tests SSG Bedini circuit last year during the Monopole3 staging process so it somehow conditioned but not enough yet.

After running this for the last 12 hours it is very clear to me that it is possible to have the radiant spike generate enough positive electricity to run the FAN and keep the battery voltage level steady or even increase. Also as it runs I can also see that the battery is only getting better at it.

Now, I have the fan spinning at around 264 rpm and it is creating about 700 pulses or radiant spikes per rotation plus the two reciprocal waves I shown on previous posts. The battery is still running down about .01v every 3 hours or so, BUT, if I disconnect the circuit and wait 2 to 5 minutes max and connect it again the voltage is back to where It was when I started. I have been doing this process the whole day and the battery is still sitting at the same voltage of this morning and the FAN is spinning constantly.

So rough calculation of 7ma average at 12.10v for 12 hours gives me 1 watt/hour roughly (please correct my bad calculations anyone :) ). It is not much but it is enough to see it dropping the voltage of this particular battery during tests.

Tunning the resistor at the base of the transistor is the the most tedious step because one has to wait and see if the fan will not accelerate too much and use too much current or slowly reduce speed until stops which could be around 5 or 10 minutes later. It seams that I got the correct setting that balances the weight of the fan, its speed and current consumption at its minimum to a perfect balance. I also removed the capacitor C2 (the one that receives the spikes) so that the spikes goes directly to the battery without being converted into positive electricity first.

I can, based on my data so far, see how much possible is in having a very well conditioned battery (such as gadgetmall's battery apparently) to not only run this but also charge as it receives the radiant spikes, may be even to the point of increasing the current consumption to above 8ma possibly 20ma. BTW at 20ma you will have the FAN spinning at 1500 rpm easily.

@gadgetmall

would be possible for you to give more accurate info about the current consumption you have and speed of the fan? would be possible to make a new video showing closely the SOUND of that fan pulsating (for me it would tell a lot because I can tune my fan by the sound of its pulses)? Also could you tell me the exact resistance you have on the pot when you have the system well tune? and the correct capacitor value on the base of the transistor?

@ALL,

for those that are still not believing this, I highly would advice spending some time on this little circuit because it is really tricky but definitely possible to have it running at least in oscilation mode and charging a battery at the same time. The 48volts fan is very cheap (gadgetmall showed a link to a seller a few pages before). I got 3 for the total of $12 including shipping.

There is definitely something going on here and it is not a matter of too big battery or faulty measurements, or not knowing how to measure input versus output, no, this can not get simpler than it is. Get a regular small 12 volts wet lead acid battery. Smaller better so you can see the results faster. SLAs or GEL cells WILL NOT WORK. They simply dry up with radiant spikes ( I already destroyed 4 of those ).

There is not need to measure the input versus output really because both are one and the same, the perfect closed loop perpertual circuit that we ALL are looking for. No need to worry about those RF signals and their difficulty with DMMs and all that sweet talk I hear in every thread. All one needs is patience and some multimeters to measure the drop of the voltage as you run the circuit on a day or few days. It does not matter if even in the end you have only ghost voltage on the battery as long as the fan is spinning and the voltage does not drop by the end of the day!

It would really be good to have some good brains here with time in their hands. If this is really what I am seeing there is a great potentitial because Bedini has already shown the level of scalability his monopole got (in his EFV DVD he has one running and generating about 1200 watts of power). So, this circuit is pretty much the same as Bedini's SSG therefore scalable.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: hartiberlin on February 16, 2009, 12:40:57 AM
Hi Fausto,
nice results.

But 7 mA are not much for a big 12 Volts battery.
So as batteries are very nonlinear with their voltage to
charge state, maybe try to measure the gravitation
of the acid with an gravitation meter.
So you can see, if it will get less charged over a few days.

Yes you are correct in 12 hours you have drawn about 1 Watthours
of energy from the battery and you still say, that it has dropped its voltage,
but surely this is a way to use batteries much longer, small currents and
use the radiant spike recharge effect.

Maybe you are also using this way stimulated radioactive decay as some lead isotopes radiate some
beta decay and thus increase the battery energy ?
Could be.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 16, 2009, 03:29:07 AM
@hartiberlin
very interesting this Daniel guy. Do you have any more info about him and his shows?

@ALL

my test circuit is attached. It has been running since last morning with NO voltage drop whatsoever. A steady 266 rpm and 7.8ma average consumption. Signal is still the same as before with about 700 pulses per magnet pass plus the two reciprocal waves. I added a capacitor cross the emittor/collector of the transistor pnp 3904. I also removed the 470uf 200v capacitor that gadgetmall inserted to let the radiant spikes to go directly to the battery ( I think I stated that already before ).

I am very , very, very happy that for a full 48 hours my battery has not changed its voltage at all despite the 7ma consumption. This battery is actually a 795 cold cranking amps battery (I have no idea how much is that in amp/hours really, I just thought my battery was a 100amp/hour for some strange reason). I know that 7ma this battery can go on for a long time, BUT i have also done over 200 load tests on this baby and I KNOW even with this small current I can change its voltage to one tenth of a volt in about 2 or 3 hours easily on 7ma. SO, it is working somehow.

We will see if it will stand the time. I think if it runs like this for one week there will be no doubt this is really indeed regenerating its own power.

I have to buy a very small wet lead acid battery but I could not find one in the net. If anyone know where I can buy one cheap that is around 2 to 5 amp/hours max it would be great so that I can test this more speedly.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: hartiberlin on February 16, 2009, 04:02:39 AM
Hi Fausto,
try to use ba faster diode instead of the 1N4007,
better also use a 1N5408, cause they will conduct
the radiant spikes much faster.

The 1N4007 are only good for low frequency applications
like 50 / 60 Hz systems...


Regarding the Pomerleau PDF file from
Laurent: semda@free.fr

He wrote to me:

See the PDF file.
If you discribe this system with 2 equations (one for 1=Serial LRC and another
for 2=Paralel RLC WITH the interaction by Capacitor and by coil, you will see
that in the loop RL of 2 you can have PERMANENT CURENT (AC or DC) witch works
WITHOUT battery. By a similar interaction system, atoms works in permanent mode,
and supraconductivity works in permanent mode with cooper par.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 16, 2009, 05:17:32 AM
@hartiberlin

thank you Stefan for the tips. I did try in my "1000 variations" of this circuit to use the n5408 diode instead of the n4007 and surprisingly enough I also thought as you BUT it did not work at all. Do you see my 5 diodes in series they are noway even close to the characteristics of the SK3606 that I could find on the net. My conclusion (most probably wrong and non-expert) is that radiant likes low frequency and resistance better than positive electricity, therefore the 5 diodes works better in their "resistance" level at a whole for the radiant (taking in consideration that radiant does not flow inline or even in the same direction, necessarily,  of the regular electricity :).

The 4007 diode is only good to let the BEMF flow but it is horrible for the radiant (no wonder Bedini puts that one on the SSG monopole for everyone, off course limiting the COP that people can get in purpose - well stated in their forum). In other words I agree with you BUT my testing shows the opposite.

The only place I used a ultra-fast diode the mru1100 was in place of the new capacitor cross the transistor emittor/collector which worked very, very well, BUT the capacitor still gave me the best results.

As of now that I type I still have a FAN running with the voltage on the battery being the same BUT now I have a new problem... my fan is accelerating and therefore increasing the current consumption which WILL KILL the system so I have to watch it closely to avoid that.

@ALL,

so until now I do have a running system with no visible measurable voltage decrease anywhere. I do have an excess energy manifesting itself in the FAN speed and that IS A PROBLEM. Let me explain better. I fell to mention before that to get this thing running correctly one can not just spin the fan and let the system run, one MUST spin the fan with the minimum consumption of current as possible ( and this is not only because the  the battery being able to charge at that rate only - I will explain that later ) and least spinning as possible. If one gets the fan to speed up to, lets say above 500 rpm, it will simply waiste too much energy and not generate the radiant spikes, one will find that the system is now in the best speed mode but not necesserely in the best re-generation mode. Currently my system was spinning at 266rpm and now accellerated to 277rpm.

The reason of the minimum current consumption is not only because the battery, being not conditoned well, will not re-generation enough energy to recuperate the used energy, it is MOSTLY because positive electricity will EAT UP all the radiant energy. Radiant comes first and current comes right after. Tesla stated that, Bedini and many others.

So, having this system running with too much current will at some point just kill all the possibility of any radiant energy appearing and therefore having the COP we all want.

Please dont kill me for this statement of mine now: I think that for every 12 volts 10ma one creates, one can get 100 to 200 volts scoped measure radiant energy, anything above that power ratio will only deplete or kill the potential radiant energy visible to use. That ratio will be also proportinal to speed or frequency. In other words, faster more voltage and current one can use to manufacture radiant, slower, much slower we get at that 12v by 10ma stated before. Am I craizy????!!!!

We need help here with experimenteers!!!

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: hartiberlin on February 16, 2009, 06:09:49 AM
Hi Fausto,
I see, strange effects.

Can you please show a picture, which shows exactly the fan and how you modified
the windings, so that it looks now like a transformer ?
Maybe you can put a small light bulb in series with some
fan windings, so if the current raises, then the bulb will conduct
less as it heats up the filament, so the bulb resistance increases ?

Would be a simple control mechanism..

Many thanks in advance.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 16, 2009, 08:12:35 AM
@hartiberlin

tomorrow morning I will take pictures of a brand new FAN being modified as you asked, after all I bought 3 exactly for that.  This other fan is identical to the one running. I can not open the one running because once you open it you will break it and you must glue it together and this is my only running prototype, but it was in my plans anyway to replicate this 3 times and from the second time on have plenty of pictures, movies and descriptions of the process.

BTW, fan still spinning and I got a little run away once I bypassed the amp meter. Fan accelerated to 300rpm and current increase ( I think, because the amp meter is off ), voltage on the battery dropped instantaneously 0.01v. I get desperate (this is my baby :) ), I removed the bypass, put the amp meter back and rpm dropped to 266-270rpm and voltage instantaneously was raised back 0.01v, amazing.

For a moment I thought I lost my setup context and I would have to start all over again. You see, I am trying to keep this one context (setup speed, current consumption, electronic parts, wirering and so forth unchanged so that only one variable is in place, just as science requests).

I hope everyone understand that I am being honest about this setup and if it FAILS I will also be honest and let everyone knows what the outcome is, going up or down. Right now, I am very happy that my battery after over 54hours has not dropped voltage (except for that incident above but came back to where it was) and this is impressive for me at least the knows that battery very well.

Cross fingers guys.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 16, 2009, 01:00:09 PM
@hartiberlin

tomorrow morning I will take pictures of a brand new FAN being modified as you asked, after all I bought 3 exactly for that.  This other fan is identical to the one running. I can not open the one running because once you open it you will break it and you must glue it together and this is my only running prototype, but it was in my plans anyway to replicate this 3 times and from the second time on have plenty of pictures, movies and descriptions of the process.

BTW, fan still spinning and I got a little run away once I bypassed the amp meter. Fan accelerated to 300rpm and current increase ( I think, because the amp meter is off ), voltage on the battery dropped instantaneously 0.01v. I get desperate (this is my baby :) ), I removed the bypass, put the amp meter back and rpm dropped to 266-270rpm and voltage instantaneously was raised back 0.01v, amazing.

For a moment I thought I lost my setup context and I would have to start all over again. You see, I am trying to keep this one context (setup speed, current consumption, electronic parts, wirering and so forth unchanged so that only one variable is in place, just as science requests).

I hope everyone understand that I am being honest about this setup and if it FAILS I will also be honest and let everyone knows what the outcome is, going up or down. Right now, I am very happy that my battery after over 54hours has not dropped voltage (except for that incident above but came back to where it was) and this is impressive for me at least the knows that battery very well.

Cross fingers guys.

Fausto.
Fasto here is the sound your requested of My powersupplybedini . It is a wav . About Halfway i take the output lead off then put it back on .. then at the end i slightly move the pot .
 I might add that No one expects you to lie on my behalf . I Don't know you  . I would be skeptical too . However i have been in this free energy Projects  way before 1989 . You don't believe me . Have a look at the bottom of My Screen with the dipalma quote . there you will see me begging for some clicks on My web site ADS. on there is some correspondences from a friend of mine . Barbara Hickcox and her patent . i have access to the full patent and plans that sell for $100,000.00 dollars . i will never give them away for free . .Nor  will not sell them . and she was in this when Howard Hughes was alive . You have been here on this forum longer than me . I know its Strange that all of the sudden someone pops up with all these selfrunners and claims of overunity but its time SOMEBODY Steps up to the Plate . there are way more inventors out there with Much better things than i have . I am Concentrating on Small Stuff with the Lowest Possible input Current Circuits and to produce Very Long Run Times and high outputs  . I now have several Circuits of which are public . If you get them to work for you great if not Don't you Dare Insinuate i am Lying to you . I am Sharing My results . I really don't care if you get it or not . Doesn't Matter . I got it that's what Counts to me  :) I have several Degrees but I am Not Dr. Stiffler . I understand he is a Pain in the ass and wants to delete every post that offends him in some way . I think he is a SNOT . PLUS his experiments prove nothing that i have seen except you can take a Sig generator and feed a signal; in something and get some power out of it . Whoopee . I can do that with My pulse Generator . input a  .5 Volt pulse at a Set frequency into any LC circuit and you will get more out than in .Cold Electricity we got fugoi. No we Cant light a incandescent lamp under water becaus ewe dont have a 1000 dollar special signal generator . I don't see what the fuss is about .And yea He uses unusual parts that contain Barium and Radioactive Ferrite and has 10's of thousands of dollars of test equipment  and all his Fancy Math . Makes it look real good .If its Something Worth Having Be open about it and Share it offer to sell it or what ever . Well It make me look Like the Pig Farmer that invented the time Machine :) 
So you tell it like you see it Fasto  . I gave all i can give for free . Take it or Leave . Its Like God in a way Some will receive his Glory  some won't (Bad example i know but its true ). Well i hope your see what i see thats all . I already see that the fans are different resistance . So one has more windings that the other i guess production was not perfect that why they are so cheap i guess? Lucky for me .the way i see it unity is easy as pie . I don't know why others dont see it . I have a lot of time on my hands now i guess and while Baby is in School every day i piddle and put a part here and there and WALA ! I don't Necessarily go by standard Circuit Building . I think outside the box . Maybe its a gift i got after My Anurisium .Maybe its because i am not afraid to Die like all the other Free Energy Inventors that got Scared away or Killed . I just know It's time someone DID SOMETHING Worth a Flip .   
regards
Al
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 16, 2009, 03:54:41 PM
@gadgetmall,

thank you Al, I really appreciate your openness and willing to share your inventions. I never doubt you not even when I only saw your videos in youtube, I guess it pays to thrust people first.

The sound is SOOOOOooo helpfull, I can in my first analysis see that you are definitely having many more pulses per rotation than I have and is also spinning sligthly slower than mine.  As you said, the resistance of your coil might be different. Hopefully my next fan will be better.

My system is running good. It did drop today 0.01v but, as I said before, turn off the system, let it rest for 5 minutes and back to where it was and running again. I think my system is still not well tuned as yours. I will get there.

Fausto.


Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 16, 2009, 08:39:02 PM
I re-tuned my fan to sound as close as possible to gadgetmall. My still runs a little bit faster but I think by the sound they are very similiar in the signal.

My battery is still the same voltage as 2 days ago.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 17, 2009, 03:09:07 AM
I re-tuned my fan to sound as close as possible to gadgetmall. My still runs a little bit faster but I think by the sound they are very similiar in the signal.

My battery is still the same voltage as 2 days ago.

Fausto.
Hmm. What do you think is going on there  ? ) you get em yet  ?
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 17, 2009, 04:04:42 AM
here are some pictures of the FAN.

The voltage is still the same and then fan is spinning at about 150 rpm very slow, lots of radiant spikes and the long wave pulse. The total  length of time for the radiant spikes (all of them) and the wave is exactly 1/2 for each so at one revolution we have 1/2 radiant and 1/2 wave with reciprocals.

I am very puzzled but this little baby :)

@hartberlin,

I did not change any of the widdings of this fan I only separated one of the poles that had two wires into two poles totaling 4 poles now.

Fausto.


Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: hartiberlin on February 17, 2009, 04:36:41 AM
Hi Fausto,
many thanks for the pictures.

I see, that these 48 Volts fans have very fine wire coils.
That is very interesting.
So they don´t have the big wire size normal 5 or 12 Volts fans have.

So this makes their inductance much higher and thus also the current going through them
much smaller, which is a good thing to save the batteries too much load current.

But now we still must know, which of the 4 coils you are using for the
primary and which for the secondary of your transformer in your circuit diagram ?

Did you put 2 in series for the primary and also 2 in series for the secondary ?
But which ones of the 4 coils ?

Many thanks in advance.

P.S. The sound wave sounds spooky ! ;) ;D
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 17, 2009, 05:06:13 AM
Hi Fausto,
many thanks for the pictures.

I see, that these 48 Volts fans have very fine wire coils.
That is very interesting.
So they don´t have the big wire size normal 5 or 12 Volts fans have.

So this makes their inductance much higher and thus also the current going through them
much smaller, which is a good thing to save the batteries too much load current.

But now we still must know, which of the 4 coils you are using for the
primary and which for the secondary of your transformer in your circuit diagram ?

Did you put 2 in series for the primary and also 2 in series for the secondary ?
But which ones of the 4 coils ?

Many thanks in advance.

P.S. The sound wave sounds spooky ! ;) ;D

good question Stefan, I have no idea how they are really connect, all I know is that there are 4 wires and each connected to one wire to the SSG circuit. I pretty much just tried all combinations until it worked. This is because only ONE combination will work all the others will simply either run current through the FAN and not spin or either the system will simply not spin at all.

I was wondering the same thing as you do. I assume by looking into those coils with magnifying glasses that they are simply 4 coils and one of them is a bifilar but seams to be connected as if it was a simple wind.

I also played first with the 12v fan and they were using the same size of wire as far as I can remember just much smaller winds.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: hartiberlin on February 17, 2009, 05:30:28 AM
Okay, maybe you can find out the correct wiring and make somepictures,
so we see,which coils are exactly used as the primary and which coils
are exactly used as the secondary .

I think this is important to know,cause these coils also accelerate and interact
with the rotor magnet field and we must know, which coils are energized at which
moment.

What happens, when the rotor stands still ?

How many input current are you going to draw then ?

Maybe you can optimize it then , so that a solid state device can
be created, by just using 2 different coils in each configuration ?


Many thanks.



Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: AbbaRue on February 17, 2009, 07:22:52 AM
@All
I ripped apart a 12v computer fan last night and did the mod but It doesn't put out enough voltage to light a neon.
And after running it for a few hours I noticed that the battery voltage was going down so my circuit isn't working right yet.
It may be that the motor must be a 48 Volt unit for this to produce excess energy.
I am using a 2n5551 npn transistor, maybe it needs to be a power transistor to put out more voltage.
Has anyone built a version of this using a common 12 volt computer fan?

Imhotep has a step by step video on how to do this and he uses a common 12 volt computer fan in the videos.
Here is the link for those that are interested, it's quite easy to replicate, the hardest part is getting the motor apart without damaging it.
http://d1190995.domaincentral.com.au/page3.html

Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 17, 2009, 12:41:41 PM
@all

This is my contribution to this thread.

Last year I did the imhotep fan charger with a 12 volts fan, it worked with a 9 volts battery charging it back for 12 hours.
I began to mess with the batteries, changing the ones that were charged with the ones that were not, and suddenly it stopped working till today. I have left it aside while I get more knowledge and make it run back.

The coil principle is this:

Jesus
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 17, 2009, 07:37:04 PM
New sound from changing to a Different wet cell 12 volt car battery partial conditioning . Volts Rise and Sound is Slightly Varying in frequency . Yea it is strange sound .
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 17, 2009, 09:42:32 PM
@All
I ripped apart a 12v computer fan last night and did the mod but It doesn't put out enough voltage to light a neon.
And after running it for a few hours I noticed that the battery voltage was going down so my circuit isn't working right yet.
It may be that the motor must be a 48 Volt unit for this to produce excess energy.
I am using a 2n5551 npn transistor, maybe it needs to be a power transistor to put out more voltage.
Has anyone built a version of this using a common 12 volt computer fan?

Imhotep has a step by step video on how to do this and he uses a common 12 volt computer fan in the videos.
Here is the link for those that are interested, it's quite easy to replicate, the hardest part is getting the motor apart without damaging it.
http://d1190995.domaincentral.com.au/page3.html


Check these 12 volt fan bedini s i built
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSdM4J44Q3o how to build a powersupply bedini
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyPxMgqaId8 powersupplybedini
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: AbbaRue on February 17, 2009, 11:29:25 PM
@plengo
I bought a 48 volt fan today that looks almost identical to yours,  same company even.
But when I opened it up it doesn't have bifilar windings in it, only a single strand from coil to coil.
How do I modify this type of motor?  Did yours have bifilar windings?

Should I modify it like nievesoliveras shows in his diagram a few posts up?
So 2 of the 4 windings are power and the other 2 are the output pulse?

It would be a lot of work to rewind this with a bifilar coil but I may have to do that.
If so I would just leave the circuit board intact and just remove these windings and rewind with bifilar.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 18, 2009, 01:05:25 AM
@plengo
I bought a 48 volt fan today that looks almost identical to yours,  same company even.
But when I opened it up it doesn't have bifilar windings in it, only a single strand from coil to coil.
How do I modify this type of motor?  Did yours have bifilar windings?

Should I modify it like nievesoliveras shows in his diagram a few posts up?
So 2 of the 4 windings are power and the other 2 are the output pulse?

It would be a lot of work to rewind this with a bifilar coil but I may have to do that.
If so I would just leave the circuit board intact and just remove these windings and rewind with bifilar.

Hello . I am Fusionchip . If you have a BRUSH LESS FAN it is wound with two wires . on one of the end post there are two wires . you must get a magnifiers and carefully remove one of the wires and make an extra post or just solder a lead off it and glue it .
Also if you looked at My videos you will see it is impossible to just remove the stator ,you have to Break it off  :) Imhopep did not show that  :)
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Goat on February 18, 2009, 01:13:13 AM
@ All

I also bought a 48 volt fan today but it's only a 2 pole bifilar (see pic), anyone know if and how to go about wiring this fan?  The last 48 v fan I had was wrecked when I brought it to a shop to press out the shaft  ::)

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: AbbaRue on February 18, 2009, 01:39:00 AM
@gadgetmall
I already built a bedini from a 12 V computer fan so I know how to do it now.
But this 48 V motor I bought is wired different it definitely has only one strand going from coil to coil.
Also one end goes to a pin but the other end goes directly into the circuit board. 
Totally different setup from the 12V computer motor I modified.
Anyone else buying these motors should try peeking into the crack of the motor to make sure it is bifilar wound.
Because some of them are wound with only one strand. 

@gadgetmall did any of your 12 volt versions clearly show more output then input?
Mine definitely runs the battery down as it runs.
I tweeked the pot. for hours trying different settings and always seen the battery voltage keep  going down.
I bought a few larger 12V fans to try building another one, maybe a larger fan will put out more power.
I looked through the crack in the rotor of them and can see they have bifilar windings on them.
Princess auto only carries the one type of 48 volt  fan and  it's not bifilar wound.

Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 18, 2009, 02:23:55 AM
@ All

I also bought a 48 volt fan today but it's only a 2 pole bifilar (see pic), anyone know if and how to go about wiring this fan?  The last 48 v fan I had was wrecked when I brought it to a shop to press out the shaft  ::)

Regards,
Paul
Ok . glad you got it apart . check the continuity on the two sets of wire . solder for the 4th wire so you have 4 post and two circuits . should work fine.It appears to have two windings because it has two colors of wire therefor its bifilar.
Al
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 18, 2009, 02:46:44 AM
@gadgetmall,

Thank you my friend. Today I got the SK3606, they are a beauty. I immediately removed my diodes and replaced with the SKs. Right out of the batch I notice the perfomance is totally changed. I can run this with the fan very slow and I even think the sound is the same as you have. It runs with a strange fluctuation of 2ma to 10ma per turn. Battery voltage did not even blink from the resting voltage.

Definitely those diodes make a difference. Hopefully I will be able t tune it to the point of not only keeping the voltage stable but also going up. Lets see.

@all

Today before leaving to work, I replaced my transistor NPN-3904 with a TIP32A and tried different quick configurations. Before I did that voltage of the battery was about 0.01v down again but as soon I left the system disconnected while I changed the parts the battery came back to the same voltage of 4 days ago.

I tried a few tunnings and had to leave to work and asked my wife to keep an eye on the fan to see if it would run away too fast or stop. Later she called, about 3 hours later, and said the fan had stopped. So quickly I figure the pot resistance setting was too high, so I asked her to turn the nob. Oh boy, what a mistake. When I came back home from work the fan was simply running too fast and drained the battery about 0.02v above the normal 0.01v totaling a 0.03v down.  :( :( :(

BUT, i got the new parts from gadgetmall and disconnected everything. Guess what? battery in 5 minutes was back to the same voltage again and I put it to run with the new SK diodes. Voltage has not dropped even a tinny little bit with those guys!!!!!! AMAZING.

Off course now that I am here I tuned to my best and it was easy to tune it too.  Another thing different with the SK's and the new transistor is that the voltage on the CAP (which I had to install back) rises very, very fast to 100+volts, may be 20 seconds it will be there, which before with the other diodes and the PNP3904 was not happening that fast.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 18, 2009, 02:55:38 AM
@plengo
I bought a 48 volt fan today that looks almost identical to yours,  same company even.
But when I opened it up it doesn't have bifilar windings in it, only a single strand from coil to coil.
How do I modify this type of motor?  Did yours have bifilar windings?

Should I modify it like nievesoliveras shows in his diagram a few posts up?
So 2 of the 4 windings are power and the other 2 are the output pulse?

It would be a lot of work to rewind this with a bifilar coil but I may have to do that.
If so I would just leave the circuit board intact and just remove these windings and rewind with bifilar.

If you look very close, very, very close with a magnifying glass you will notice that ONE of the coils is a bifilar. Those wires are less than a hair tick. Impossible to see by naked eye.

Concerning the configuration I would assume that nievesoliveras is correct but I can not confirm yet because I did not touch none of the widdings neither would advice you to. Look closely you will see that in one of the 3 posts one has 2 fine wires into it. Melt the lead and separate the two wires. Each will now be a new post or connection to the external circuit, totaling 4 wires in the end. That's all I did.

Look at the videos from Fusionchip. That's actually what I did before doing this 48v fan. I did not even put a post there, I just used tick wires to connect directly to the enameled wire of the fan and firmly glued the tick wires into the base of the fan, leaving enough space for the rotor to run without friction.

I will try tonight dismantle another 48v fan and take many pictures with close-ups so that everyone can see how it is.

Fausto.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 18, 2009, 03:01:42 AM
@ All

I also bought a 48 volt fan today but it's only a 2 pole bifilar (see pic), anyone know if and how to go about wiring this fan?  The last 48 v fan I had was wrecked when I brought it to a shop to press out the shaft  ::)

Regards,
Paul

Oh boy what a nice widdings. Goat I think you are in trouble with this one here. What I can advice is, see if you can somehow find 4 wires ends on those metal posts. Measure the resistance in all sort of combinations and see if you can infer which one is which. I kind of did that on my fan and I noticed that two widdings are really one, as Fusionchip is saying.

From those two widdings you will have 2 posts and the other 2 widdings would be another 2 posts (or wire ends) and one widding will be infinite resistance to the other widdings, forcing you to see that they are really two sets of two widdings in the motor.

In nievesoliveras picture is what we see logically but I dont think it is really that simple. The SSG motor needs only two widdings really, one is the trigger and the other is the power (as nievesoliveras  shows) but with this fans they are somehow organized in two sets of trigger and two sets of power coils. Makes any sense?

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: hartiberlin on February 18, 2009, 04:20:19 AM
All,
many thanks for the recent information
on the Fans.
I also bought one 12 Volts fan today, but did notyethave time to
open it up.

Is there any circuit diagram out there on the web  for these 48 Volts fans ?

I just want to see, how they are normally wired in their normal coil configuration.

Do they use one of the parallel wound bifilar coils for controlling the speed or triggering ,
or why do they use these parallel wound bifilar coils ?
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 18, 2009, 04:21:27 AM
@gadgetmall
I already built a bedini from a 12 V computer fan so I know how to do it now.
But this 48 V motor I bought is wired different it definitely has only one strand going from coil to coil.
Also one end goes to a pin but the other end goes directly into the circuit board. 
Totally different setup from the 12V computer motor I modified.
Anyone else buying these motors should try peeking into the crack of the motor to make sure it is bifilar wound.
Because some of them are wound with only one strand. 

@gadgetmall did any of your 12 volt versions clearly show more output then input?
Mine definitely runs the battery down as it runs.
I tweeked the pot. for hours trying different settings and always seen the battery voltage keep  going down.
I bought a few larger 12V fans to try building another one, maybe a larger fan will put out more power.
I looked through the crack in the rotor of them and can see they have bifilar windings on them.
Princess auto only carries the one type of 48 volt  fan and  it's not bifilar wound.


Well i didn't want to say anything about another one that selfruns BUT yes the first one i did in the video with the caps on the input with a 9 volt battery will run itself .thats all it does it dost drop and it dosnt gain . it was a 12 volt fan . Its resistance was the highest of 8 12volt  fans i modded . 91 ohms per coil.. . No i am not kidding . the other fans had around 30 to 40 ohms resistance and shorted out when i tried all of them . Weird ? I gave it away for Christmas . You have got to get some of these 48 volt fans shipped to you the link is a few pages back . they were only 1.79 each .i bet everybody and there father has bought all of them . I got 20 comming and i will probably sell My Completed units including the battery for around 1000.00  or you can make it but you wont get the diodes . i sold 16 of them in like 3 days on the net and i have about 20 more and i am using them in the completed units .. Fasto got the last one :)
Ps Can you Snap a Picture Of the Stator you have in question and post it here . ?
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: hartiberlin on February 18, 2009, 04:37:05 AM
I saw today in the electronic shop, that they also had 230 Volts AC types fans.

How do these fans work ?
Is there a little synchron or ansynchron motor integrated ?
Do they have any usefull coils in them ?

I did not yet google them...
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Goat on February 18, 2009, 04:44:37 AM
Thanks gadgetmall

There were 2 wires gold and red so I had to solder extension wires and made them yellow for the gold colored wires and green for the red wires (see pic below).

Notice that the wires have been soldered together to extend them, in the picture that I posted previously you could see that there were 2 short wires and 2 longer wires, now you can see in the picture that there is no shrink tube on the 2 shorter ones because they are under the back casing.

So tomorrow I will hook up the 2 yellow wires onto the primary side and the red on the secondary of your circuit if I can get a hold of the components that I'm missing.

Ok . glad you got it apart . check the continuity on the two sets of wire . solder for the 4th wire so you have 4 post and two circuits . should work fine.It appears to have two windings because it has two colors of wire therefor its bifilar.
Al

Edit:  Here's the specs on the fan, Hartiberlin this fan comes from your neck of the woods  :)

EBM W2G110-AM41-92
48V -(36-56V) DC
5,9W 3100U/min
= rot -shwarz
Made in Germany 12/93

Thanks,
Paul

Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 18, 2009, 04:50:18 AM
I saw today in the electronic shop, that they also had 230 Volts AC types fans.

How do these fans work ?
Is there a little synchron or ansynchron motor integrated ?
Do they have any usefull coils in them ?

I did not yet google them...
Hi . I dont know . As far as the Brushless dc fans there is a complicated circuit to make the Dc switch polarity on the two windings that make the  fan spin due to the ring magnet in the rotor .. Funny they waste all those components when they could just use one transistor  :) I want to convert a large window fan . I assume that they will have their coils out of phase like these and because they use an ac electromagnetic field there is also some sort of  Magnetic rotor in there as well .(I hope ) we will find out Cause i am looking one . And the big Blades will make a perfect flywheel effect . Could even add lead to the outer egdes to get more Fly out of it ..
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 18, 2009, 04:58:11 AM
Thanks gadgetmall

There were 2 wires gold and red so I had to solder extension wires and made them yellow for the gold colored wires and green for the red wires (see pic below).

Notice that the wires have been soldered together to extend them, in the picture that I posted previously you could see that there were 2 short wires and 2 longer wires, now you can see in the picture that there is no shrink tube on the 2 shorter ones because they are under the back casing.

So tomorrow I will hook up the 2 yellow wires onto the primary side and the red on the secondary of your circuit if I can get a hold of the components that I'm missing.

Edit:  Here's the specs on the fan, Hartiberlin this fan comes from your neck of the woods  :)

EBM W2G110-AM41-92
48V -(36-56V) DC
5,9W 3100U/min
= rot -shwarz
Made in Germany 12/93

Thanks,
Paul


Ok paul . remember if it dosn't spin reverse the trigger wires !
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 19, 2009, 02:46:21 AM
Just an update. I have the Fan running with the new transistor TIP32A and the new diodes SK3606. The battery has the same voltage as 5 days ago and it is spinning at about 118 rpm. I think current is around 7ma. I dont really know because I had to remove the meter so that I can tune it properly (the meter turns off automatically changing the whole tunning).

I am happy with it except that my battery is not charging up (which is my goal). It is running but too early still to judge by the size of the battery, 100 amp/h little beast.

Soon I will have pictures and videos.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: hartiberlin on February 19, 2009, 03:00:54 AM
Hi Fausto,
just try also to put a neon bulb parallel with your transistor.
When the BackEMF happens the spike should also light up the neon
and thus the spike will go back to the battery via the neon bulb.

( Your circuit might have to be modified a bit.)

This ( transistor plus neon bulb in parallel)  is a trick to simulate a mechanical switch,
where you also have a plasma sparking when you open the switch ( transistor)
and through the plasma goes the BackEMF
current spike back to the battery and will recharge it.

Good luck and happy experiments.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 19, 2009, 05:34:48 AM
Just an update. I have the Fan running with the new transistor TIP32A and the new diodes SK3606. The battery has the same voltage as 5 days ago and it is spinning at about 118 rpm. I think current is around 7ma. I dont really know because I had to remove the meter so that I can tune it properly (the meter turns off automatically changing the whole tunning).

I am happy with it except that my battery is not charging up (which is my goal). It is running but too early still to judge by the size of the battery, 100 amp/h little beast.

Soon I will have pictures and videos.

Fausto.
Hi fasto
 My test on the big battery is gaining ever so slow . i terminated that test so i will have to condition it with the big bedini for a couple of months . I put it back on the motorcycle battery and boom . she increased a 10 of a volts every 40 minuits or so . You have to have a Very good Conditioned battery . Its not hard to do just charge it only with a bedini and discharge it slow and keep doing this for 60 days or so and then you will have a very strong Bedini Battery . Yea the Ma meter Changes the frequency . i know you can tell what its doing with your scope though .. Its very good at sustaning on a non-conditioned battery i have noticed also except i see gain on them as well just slower. what is the resistance of your Fan No2 ?
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 19, 2009, 09:08:11 AM
@ Gadgetmall:

I just ordered some of those fans from the link you posted.  I am going to give this a try.  They will probably be here in about a week.

Bill
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on February 19, 2009, 07:02:26 PM
Hi all

I've been experiimenting over the last couple of days using a modified 24V fan of the type shown by Goat. I'm using an old wet cell  45A/hr car battery with one bad cell which has been put on a Bedini energiser a couple of times. It is very difficult to maintain the terminal voltage on this battery even on very light loads which is why I decided to use it for this experiment. Any small current draw of a few milliamps over a short period of time shows a reduction of voltage. The trigger and power coil resistances are 19 ohms and the fan has two poles wound bifilar.

Results did not look good at the beginning of the experiment but I eventually found a spot where I could hold the terminal voltage steady over a long period of time and this point coincides with a strange pulsing sound which some of you have described and posted sound files of. I get this strange sound only at this particular tuning point. I have scoped the waveforms across the transistor and battery. The waveform across collector / emitter has a very short duty cycle, thus the low running current which in my case is 20mA at the 'sweet spot'. The battery waveform is very interesting and shows a very high radiant content. My fan is turning at a reasonable rate, so it is doing some work at the 'sweet spot'.

I'm thinking that its perhaps not so much the resistance of the fan windings that's important to get the effect, rather the magnetic circuit and make-up of the fan. I deliberately modified a 24V fan to determine if the resistance is critical and appears it is not. Also my battery is far from conditioned but I'm seeing the same effect as others are describing without the charging. With good conditioning I may be lucky and see some self-charging.

Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 19, 2009, 08:50:56 PM
@Hoppy,

oh boy, I am Sooooooooo happy that I am not craizy here and gadgetmall is becoming more and more correct (which I never doubted anyway but it is good to have external evidence).

I am having all sort of tuning points that behave in vast consumption levels. Some will maintain even my SLAs on a long time without dropping voltage. Some will keep the Wet cell battery virtually unchanged and some will simply drain it all.

It is indeed a matter of a sweet point. I also think as you Hoppy that it is the magnetic effect somehow influencing this. I am playing a lot with different positions of a magnet on top of the fan too.

Different transistors will also in a major way change the radiant content. My 3904 is very good but difficult to tune. The TIP32A is very easy to tune but consumes a little bit more. The MJL21194 (if I am correct) and the 3055 are the worse.

I am going to open another 48v fan tonight, take pictures and try a second circuit tonight.

Fausto.


Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on February 19, 2009, 10:42:21 PM
@Plengo

I'm currently using the MJ21194 which is the TO3 'Top hat' version and have not yet tried other transistors. I think it was Gagetmall that reported that he could discharge his battery and the fan would return the battery to the original voltage prior to discharge. I have also been able to do this and although I'm not certain, I think that the battery is genuinely re-charging rather than just recovering, even though it does not charge beyond the pre-discharge voltage. Have you seen this with your setup?

I have also found that the diode in charging lead to the battery pos terminal needs to be carefully chosen. The IN4007 works well but some other diodes not nearly so well.

John Bedini claims that self-charging is not possible using a single battery with feedback and I would certainly agree with him insofar as using conventional coils with iron rod, or ferrite cores. I've tried numerous variations of the monopole energsier and have never got this close to self-running even with high resistance coils. The fan is much more a closed magnetic circuit and with the outer continuous magnetic loop encircling the coils, it is much more efficient than the conventional coil and magnetic rotor.

Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 19, 2009, 11:25:10 PM
@Plengo

I'm currently using the MJ21194 which is the TO3 'Top hat' version and have not yet tried other transistors. I think it was Gagetmall that reported that he could discharge his battery and the fan would return the battery to the original voltage prior to discharge. I have also been able to do this and although I'm not certain, I think that the battery is genuinely re-charging rather than just recovering, even though it does not charge beyond the pre-discharge voltage. Have you seen this with your setup?

I have also found that the diode in charging lead to the battery pos terminal needs to be carefully chosen. The IN4007 works well but some other diodes not nearly so well.

John Bedini claims that self-charging is not possible using a single battery with feedback and I would certainly agree with him insofar as using conventional coils with iron rod, or ferrite cores. I've tried numerous variations of the monopole energsier and have never got this close to self-running even with high resistance coils. The fan is much more a closed magnetic circuit and with the outer continuous magnetic loop encircling the coils, it is much more efficient than the conventional coil and magnetic rotor.

Hoppy

Hey Guys . Good testing to you all .
Hoppy If resistance doesn't play a role in this feedback why then of all the fans i modified only the ones about resistance 60 above would feedback . the rest of the fans were 31 40 49 somewhere around there and they all would short out when trying to feed the BEMF to the Primary ? You know Bedini also said the Circuit was designed to shut down when we did this  :)
Al
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 19, 2009, 11:58:22 PM
@Plengo

I'm currently using the MJ21194 which is the TO3 'Top hat' version and have not yet tried other transistors. I think it was Gagetmall that reported that he could discharge his battery and the fan would return the battery to the original voltage prior to discharge. I have also been able to do this and although I'm not certain, I think that the battery is genuinely re-charging rather than just recovering, even though it does not charge beyond the pre-discharge voltage. Have you seen this with your setup?

I have also found that the diode in charging lead to the battery pos terminal needs to be carefully chosen. The IN4007 works well but some other diodes not nearly so well.

John Bedini claims that self-charging is not possible using a single battery with feedback and I would certainly agree with him insofar as using conventional coils with iron rod, or ferrite cores. I've tried numerous variations of the monopole energsier and have never got this close to self-running even with high resistance coils. The fan is much more a closed magnetic circuit and with the outer continuous magnetic loop encircling the coils, it is much more efficient than the conventional coil and magnetic rotor.

Hoppy


I am not sure If I understood your question but in my setup I have the case where the system runs and battery goes down in voltage, 1 day later turn off system and battery in 5 minutes restores to where it was when I started. It could be a case of the battery just recovering as you said, but certainly not the same case IF doing that for 5 days in a row. I would expect in my tests for the battery to lose some of its voltage after doing this for awhile but my battery is still the same voltage after 5 days under a constant discharge of around 7 ma.

My theory about what Bedini and Peter Linderman said  (Im not sure I got his friend's name right) is that it is "impossible" to charge a battery while one is discharging in the sence that one can not get current out and in "at the same time". Now, think about the Tesla four battery setup and even Bedini's 3 battery cigar box, he was able to do exactly the opposite. It sounds to me that IF a time period exists in between the out and in of current one CAN charge the battery although not the same time but virtually or apparently at the same time. If you watch the signal of this fan closely you will notice a long gap where there is no radiant spikes but one long pulse which could be coming from the large cap after the diode connected to the collector of the transistor.

In my setup, I can disconnect the battery and the system will still run for about 5 seconds pulsating like craizy, increasing the frequency until the cap is empty and there is no feedback anymore. In other words, a long slow death. The same does not happened when I do not use that large cap (C2 on my previous schematics) and disconnect the battery (it simply dies right there).  I think the cap is helping in collecting some of that feedback radiant spikes and feeding the fan while also feeding the battery back and helping both to run and charge at the same time. In my setup only helping the fan to continuing to run but not enough to charge the battery back.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on February 20, 2009, 12:11:36 AM
Hey Guys . Good testing to you all .
Hoppy If resistance doesn't play a role in this feedback why then of all the fans i modified only the ones about resistance 60 above would feedback . the rest of the fans were 31 40 49 somewhere around there and they all would short out when trying to feed the BEMF to the Primary ? You know Bedini also said the Circuit was designed to shut down when we did this  :)
Al


Al

I had a difficult job getting mine to work without shutting down until I found a good diode to feedback to the primary. I'm not saying that resistance is not important but I don't think its critical, otherwise I would not have got my setup working at 19 ohms strand resistance. The base resistance was quite critical to get the best 'sweet spot'. Also, the build and quality of the fan may well have a big part to play.I could be right on the edge with this or just lucky.

Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 20, 2009, 01:26:23 AM

Al

I had a difficult job getting mine to work without shutting down until I found a good diode to feedback to the primary. I'm not saying that resistance is not important but I don't think its critical, otherwise I would not have got my setup working at 19 ohms strand resistance. The base resistance was quite critical to get the best 'sweet spot'. Also, the build and quality of the fan may well have a big part to play.I could be right on the edge with this or just lucky.

Hoppy
VEry Good getting 19 ohms resistance coil feedbacking . Hmmm . well I am glad you guys are at least no i'm not BSing you as this is not My nature and i was Leary   to share this good discovery when so many others out there have similar projects and simply wont give there setup and not give you a simple do it rather than Bsing you have to understand it before i let you have it . I don't care if i never Understand it . I am Happy with it just the way i built it and really am tickled you guys are getting some fun out of it  so have fun .If you finally figure out Why it works then yes I will Copy it down and treasure it for ever .  I am working on several NEW feedback systems that involve another secondary that is rectified ,stored and flashed back to the source . Yes it works but i am not releasing My method just yet .just a little tease  :)This is going to go good with a Stepped up version of little baby48 . a 117 volt ac fan .. If you ever have played with ac motors you know the generate high output if spun fast so i will start tearing the fan apart soon and rewire it like one of these and to be sure get 20 or 40 volts off it running a 12 volt batt. .I'm ready to run an inverter off these babys . I can run lights of this one . I'll post a picture in a bit . Its a jt (Joule Thief that draws 1 ma) on a pot and runs while selfcharging . at least it will do something besides Be a Squeak Toy  :D)  Also i want to try and wind two of the fan coils with No#32 wire and see if it will induce another voltage to store in a Cap . There is plenty of room on these 48 volt fans .
AL
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 20, 2009, 01:55:45 AM
Al:

You better slow down there.  Pretty soon you will be running your house on just one fan and a JT!  Shortly thereafter, all of these fans will be removed from the market, ha ha.  Seriously, great work with this device of yours.  My fans are coming and I don't know if I have enough skills to do this but I am going to try.

Bill
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Goat on February 20, 2009, 03:16:43 AM
Hi all

Well I've got the fan working (even with the reversed diode on the base) but I still need a few components which the electronic store didn't have or was too expensive.

I'm trying to find equivalents of the SK3606 which seems quite hard to find around here, I added a Scosche 500k Micro Farad Cap because I didn't have a 440 uf 400 v cap and they were just too expensive at the store, I played around a bit with it last night and tonight but finding the sweet spot is really hard to get, it ran for almost 2 hours last night before losing voltage so I think the fan is ok but the SK3606 and possibly changing other things might help.

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 20, 2009, 03:44:50 AM
@all

I found a datasheet for the sk3606 and related parts:

http://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf-datasheets/Datasheets-37/DSA-733633.pdf

Jesus
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Goat on February 20, 2009, 04:00:13 AM
Thanks nievesoliveras

I was looking at it too a couple of days ago but it's trying to find one locally that's the real challenge for me, I'd be better to order them online if I could find them, these are the specs I found of the RCA SK3606:

SK3606 Silicon Rectifier
       
V(RRM)(V) Rep.Pk.Rev. Voltage=200
I(FSM) Max.(A) Pk.Fwd.Sur.Cur.=300
V(FM) Max.(V) Forward Voltage=1.5
I(O) Max.(A) Output Current=15
Package=DO-5

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on February 20, 2009, 11:30:58 AM
VEry Good getting 19 ohms resistance coil feedbacking . Hmmm . well I am glad you guys are at least no i'm not BSing you as this is not My nature and i was Leary   to share this good discovery when so many others out there have similar projects and simply wont give there setup and not give you a simple do it rather than Bsing you have to understand it before i let you have it . I don't care if i never Understand it . I am Happy with it just the way i built it and really am tickled you guys are getting some fun out of it  so have fun .If you finally figure out Why it works then yes I will Copy it down and treasure it for ever .  I am working on several NEW feedback systems that involve another secondary that is rectified ,stored and flashed back to the source . Yes it works but i am not releasing My method just yet .just a little tease  :)This is going to go good with a Stepped up version of little baby48 . a 117 volt ac fan .. If you ever have played with ac motors you know the generate high output if spun fast so i will start tearing the fan apart soon and rewire it like one of these and to be sure get 20 or 40 volts off it running a 12 volt batt. .I'm ready to run an inverter off these babys . I can run lights of this one . I'll post a picture in a bit . Its a jt (Joule Thief that draws 1 ma) on a pot and runs while selfcharging . at least it will do something besides Be a Squeak Toy  :D)  Also i want to try and wind two of the fan coils with No#32 wire and see if it will induce another voltage to store in a Cap . There is plenty of room on these 48 volt fans .
AL

Despite me having had the 'effect' using a 24V fan, the 48V sounds much better as I think you said that you can 'fry' batteries with yours if you leave them charging.

From the sound of your progress towards running lighting off inverters it sounds like you are well on the way to teaching John Bedini a few tricks!

Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 20, 2009, 01:46:07 PM
Congratulations to everybody on this thread!!!

Thank you to all for your work and inspiration!

Special thanks to @gadgetmall!!!

Jesus
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 20, 2009, 01:54:21 PM
Despite me having had the 'effect' using a 24V fan, the 48V sounds much better as I think you said that you can 'fry' batteries with yours if you leave them charging.

From the sound of your progress towards running lighting off inverters it sounds like you are well on the way to teaching John Bedini a few tricks!

Hoppy
ha ha ha  well i am pretty sure he never played with computer power supplies like we are either . But it was he who Started the whole thing by giving the little girl the schemitic for her school project . if it wasn't for her and Bedini's big heart we wouldn't be here right now with the concept .I  know Mr Bedini has the technology to go bigger but reading from his book the big dog;s threatened him if he ever released more than just models. I know every one has heard that when he attempted to do just that they shut the power off to his shop , BUT , His Lights remained on for days until other business complained that they were shut down too and so they had to  turned his shop back on  but warned him By throwing him against a wall to never release anything bigger than his little models . we are getting there Now and moving at light speed . I already have a gigantic Flywheel rotor and lots t of 1 x 2 inch magnets
this thing weighing about 50 pounds and once  hand spun without any components on it will spin for 10 minutes so with a coil its going to be sweet .!  i will be using NS configuration and it will produce energy two ways . the main one is it has a one way sprocket on it and will be turning another non cogging generator i have here i found in the junk yard gold mine . its brush less too and when you spin it and light a 12 volt bulb it offers no resistance on the shaft :) . I found one on the internet similar and they are 500 dollars! . . BTW you can get these Flywheels from an exercise pedal bike . the ones that don't go no where :) . Lots of time on My hands now so i got bunches of projects and piles of stuff i am using to make more power . I love it ! Just hope i don't get any knocks on my door or i'll have to blast them with My high powered laser and burn there butts back to there cave .(only for protection ) I got a 35 watter that will hurt you in a split second .
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 20, 2009, 02:06:25 PM
Congratulations to everybody on this thread!!!

Thank you to all for your work and inspiration!

Special thanks to @gadgetmall!!!

Jesus
Thank you Jesus ! Amen !!!!!!!!! And let God give his Grace on all of you in your endeavors to make our beautiful planet better by not using fossil fuels and recycling .. i sure could use some Clicks on My google ads . not the ones on the very top of the page . they are godaddys ads . mine are below the google search bar.  . BTW you guys can make a lot of money with google . I don't make so much on my page but my littlebrother runs a computer repair page and he gets close to a dollar a click! . we figured it out if he can get 15 clicks a day he will have 2 million dollars at the end of the year . !!  Heads up !! Its free too!
www.sunpowerwindpower.com
i am still working on content


@goat . told ya it would work :) Nice Cap you got there . . i can only dream of one of those though . No super super caps in the surplus yard :) they weren't invented back then . .
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 20, 2009, 03:40:33 PM
@gadgetmall

I did not want to say anything yet, but I am having a tremendous success!!!!!!
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6362.msg158838#msg158838

Jesus
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 20, 2009, 05:43:33 PM
@gadgetmall

I did not want to say anything yet, but I am having a tremendous success!!!!!!
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6362.msg158838#msg158838

Jesus
@ Nieves
 We are all Proud of you and i had said before that you would get it . Very good Job now the only thing you have to do is Make sure you copy it down so you don't Loose It !!  Take snaps and draw up a Schematic while its purring away :) We want to see too! ;D)
Best Regards
Al

 @ALL Has anyone noticed you can't pm other users anymore  ?says Many apologies, but you can't view just any profile. . Stefan whats up ? Also the signatory section wont do BBC code like it says it will ....
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Goat on February 20, 2009, 06:13:11 PM
@ gadgetmall

I asked Stefan about that in the forum access thread, he mentioned it was disabled because of email spam, see http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3893.msg158584#msg158584

Now we can't PM or view someones posts!

Damn spammers...LOL
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 21, 2009, 12:59:55 AM
@ Nieves
 We are all Proud of you and i had said before that you would get it . Very good Job now the only thing you have to do is Make sure you copy it down so you don't Loose It !!  Take snaps and draw up a Schematic while its purring away :) We want to see too! ;D)
Best Regards
Al

 @ALL Has anyone noticed you can't pm other users anymore  ?says Many apologies, but you can't view just any profile. . Stefan whats up ? Also the signatory section wont do BBC code like it says it will ....


Thank you @gadgetmall !
The schematic and photos are already posted and the motor is still running!!!!
What do you think of making the energy receiver. I would like to have some back up if the motor stops.
With the energy produced we can run the joule thief that runs the motor and get rid of the source batteries.

If you want to PM someone go to your profile and find an old PM message of the person you want to PM and click reply, then change the contents to what you want to say and send it.

Jesus
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Goat on February 21, 2009, 04:05:23 AM
Hi All

I decided to get rid of the 2N3055 transistor setup and broke open an old but working PS (power supply) from an old 800 MHz cpu so it didn't break my heart :)

I used the same EBM W2G110-AM41-92 Motor and used an 2SC2625 transistor from the PS.

I can get it to go in self oscillation and light the cap's neon in seconds rather than using the motor/fan.

If I add the wire going from the battery + across the cap then the motor dies, and it doesn't charge the battery.

Anyways I found a sweet spot that's running the fan at a whopping 795 RPM and holding the battery steady from the dozen or more configurations I had to try to get it to this point! 

I'm not going to list the details of the circuit yet because it's lost voltage over time from all the fooling around but now that I've found the sweet spot and the battery voltage has climbed back up for the last hour I'll leave it run for a couple of more hours and see ;D

Crazy thing is the rotor's been spinning all this time and now the Neon light's up for less than 10 seconds then when the cap is down the light shuts off and the cycle repeats itself, maybe that has something to do with the battery climbing back up and staying there all this time, time will tell but so far, MAJOR improvement :)

I only check the voltage once in a while and shut off the meter so as not to affect the circuit or drain the meter's batteries.

This was my day :) 

Thanks all,

Paul

Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 21, 2009, 07:03:58 PM
Paul that is wonderful . I had the feeling that your two pole stator would work somehow and those are promising results . Keep up the Great work !!
Bert Regards
Gadget
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on February 21, 2009, 10:52:07 PM
Hi all

I have continued experimenting with the fan motor and have made an interesting observation. Just for interest I converted the setup to an SCR cap pulser charging a seperate battery at a running current of 100mA. The primary was two small 2.8A/hr 12V SLA batteries in series. I wanted to see how well the modified fan motor would charge a seperate battery. I was very surprised when I saw both the primary and secondary batteries both climbing in voltage. This carried on for a good 10 mins when suddenly the primary voltage fell back in voltage. This perplexed me until I realised that one of the primary 12V batteries was in bad shape and had dropped voltage considerably. This made me wonder if the self-charging effect could also be triggered by unequal cell voltages in a single albeit healthy battery. I have many times observed a rising voltage over a period of time during discharge when a heavy load is applied to a battery. Could the same effect apply when a very light (sub C20 load) is applied to a battery that is being rapidly charged and discharged as we are doing with the 'feedback to source' arrangement??

I'm trying to obtain a low ampere hour wet cell battery because my 45A/hr battery is far too big IMO to see a definite and progressive reduction of terminal voltage (despite it being badly conditioned) over a day or so when discharging at very low currents below 30mA. The Peukert effect will substantially increase the effective ampere hour rating of a battery at extremely low current levels under its C20 rate, which makes matters worse in this respect. I had similar problems when experimenting with John Bedini's very low powered 'Window Motor' designs. My feeling is that if the 'feedback to source' setup could be run for 48hrs @ say 20mA on a very small wet cell battery under 5A/hrs, without voltage depletion, then this would confirm the 'effect' as nearly 1A/hr would have been taken from the battery.

Hoppy

Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 22, 2009, 12:15:29 AM
I am having all sort of results on my experiments. Some good, some bad and some ugly. :)

Tunning has demonstrated to be very difficult in my 150 ohms per 2 widdings on the fan. I can run it in my best for days without any voltage drop but still no gain. Using SLAs on the exact same setup will in seconds loose voltage. Wet cell battery definitely plays an important part on the process.

Speed of fan is not that really important. I can run it very fast or very slow. What makes it important is the signal, lots of radiant spikes, with a long pause wave. That pause IS very important because it allows the battery to "receive" the spikes before output current again. The cap (C2 on previous schematics) will feed the fan while the battery "digests" the radiant.

Resistance of the fan will totally change the dynamics so I decided to use a trick. I doubled the voltage and re-tuned it. Just for the test now I am using an SLA (not good) with a wet lead acid in series totaling around 24+v. I have an excellent radiant spike above 200v before the first rotation is even completed. The spike is very scary actually. DO NOT TOUCH it at this source voltage level. Neither run this without the C2 cap.

Positioning two neo magnets in a specific location (one must find it) helps the spinning tremendously.

With this 24+v I am having excellent results so far. Soooo, lets wait another 3 days to see where the voltage will stand.

BTW, I am looking for a small wet cell lead acid battery that is around 2 to 5 amp/hour capacity to speed my tests. If anyone knows of a good site, please, let me know.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: robbie47 on February 22, 2009, 07:53:48 PM

BTW, I am looking for a small wet cell lead acid battery that is around 2 to 5 amp/hour capacity to speed my tests. If anyone knows of a good site, please, let me know.

Fausto.

Fausto, have a look at UPS units, they contain 5 - 10 Ah lead acid mostly.
Another possibility might be lead acid battery for mopeds.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: AbbaRue on February 22, 2009, 09:06:05 PM
I was wondering if the principles of the "Time Energy Pump" could be implemented with these Bedini motors.
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/tep60sh.htm
Perhaps use a 555 timer to run one of these bedini fan motors.


@Hartiberlin
Are you the same Stefan Hartmann that worked on the TEP?
If so what kind of results did you finally come up with?
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: yaz on February 23, 2009, 03:55:50 AM
Hi All,

Finally found a schematic (internal wiring diagram) for a brushless motor. Took apart my 12V  fan motor and tried to find out what the chip on my PC board was (an APX9140 hall sensor). Downloaded the data sheet and there was an application schematic (page 3)...which is the same wiring as on my motors' PC board, except mine doesn't have the capacitor. It also says that the capacitor is needed to eliminate high voltage spikes into Hall IC

Is this the wiring diagram that will work (bifilar windings)? Where would I tap into the coils to connect the fourth pin? I watched Imhoteps' videos but not sure where you tap into the coil for the fourth pin.

Here's the data sheet in pdf. Would be great if someone could re-draw the motor schematic with the necessary modifications.

Thanks!!
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 23, 2009, 01:53:33 PM
Hi All,

Finally found a schematic (internal wiring diagram) for a brushless motor. Took apart my 12V  fan motor and tried to find out what the chip on my PC board was (an APX9140 hall sensor). Downloaded the data sheet and there was an application schematic (page 3)...which is the same wiring as on my motors' PC board, except mine doesn't have the capacitor. It also says that the capacitor is needed to eliminate high voltage spikes into Hall IC

Is this the wiring diagram that will work (bifilar windings)? Where would I tap into the coils to connect the fourth pin? I watched Imhoteps' videos but not sure where you tap into the coil for the fourth pin.

Here's the data sheet in pdf. Would be great if someone could re-draw the motor schematic with the necessary modifications.

Thanks!!


If you take a good look at the schematic taken from the pdf you posted, the fan coil is a Joule thief coil implemented on a fan.

Jesus
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 23, 2009, 04:13:29 PM
Last night I had an "Eureka" moment when I position some neo magnets on the fan and tuned it to a certain point where the sound of the "geese" fan was very peculiar and the voltage on my SLA reverted from going down to really going UP.

I could not believe it myself so I let it run for 3 hours without touching it and closely ignoring my two kids, wife and cats and TV and even youtube just staring at the meter (my setup using an SLA is very , very sensitive to voltage variations) with eager expectations and "voiala" the voltage was indeed getting higher at an .01v per hour. Soooo, I decided to record a video and take pictures of the phenomena  so I could post it here.

As I was doing that I had to Stop the fan, and put the fan upside down so that I could show the magnets. Doing that I accidentally moved one of the magnets and the whole tunned circuit changed. After that I still can not find the correct spot again and voltage is going down even faster than before. Oh boy!!!

There is a very fine point where the voltage climbs and out of that point voltage simply goes down. I am very hopefull that I indeed hit the right spot and will continue trying to repeat that again.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 23, 2009, 06:15:51 PM
Last night I had an "Eureka" moment when I position some neo magnets on the fan and tuned it to a certain point where the sound of the "geese" fan was very peculiar and the voltage on my SLA reverted from going down to really going UP.

I could not believe it myself so I let it run for 3 hours without touching it and closely ignoring my two kids, wife and cats and TV and even youtube just staring at the meter (my setup using an SLA is very , very sensitive to voltage variations) with eager expectations and "voiala" the voltage was indeed getting higher at an .01v per hour. Soooo, I decided to record a video and take pictures of the phenomena  so I could post it here.

As I was doing that I had to Stop the fan, and put the fan upside down so that I could show the magnets. Doing that I accidentally moved one of the magnets and the whole tunned circuit changed. After that I still can not find the correct spot again and voltage is going down even faster than before. Oh boy!!!

There is a very fine point where the voltage climbs and out of that point voltage simply goes down. I am very hopefull that I indeed hit the right spot and will continue trying to repeat that again.

Fausto.
Wonderful . That is Exactly why i use FLAT magnet . I had ONE broke hard drive magnet . it is the only Black HD magnet i ever saw .I  stuck it on the front (only half)and its camouflaged and that is why i didn't mention it before  i could not see it . If you use Just one of those you can get that spot back and you wont  have to worry  because they won't MOVE !! . Yes that indeed does sound like geese dosnt it :) GOOD goose Produce Golden Eggs :)
Albert
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 24, 2009, 03:03:11 AM
Ok, I got my eureka back!!!

I played today with different configuration of magnets "knowing" what I am looking for and only changing one parameter, the magnets.

The difference is instantaneous. As soon as I get the correct positioning the voltage stops dropping and stabilizes. After 4 hours running the large battery increased its voltage in 0.01v and the SLA is steadily unchanged. It is absolutely amazing. There is nothing on the wave form that is different than before. The sound is more pronounced to a goose and the speed is about 132rpm only. The magnets are definitely doing something different that we can not see or measure except by the battery simply not discharging. I also noticed that as the battery is charging the speed of the fan accelerates and than drops in speed again.

I am using 3 different meters with charged batteries to make sure I am not craizy and when I see the voltage going up I immediately change the battery again just to make sure.

The magnets are two neos of about 1/2" in diameter and 1" length. The square magnet is one of those you buy at RadioShack, 1 3/4" by 7/8" by 3/8".

Now more than never I am eager to open a new 48v fan start to replicate my gadgetmall's replication. I could not done before because I am very bussy this days.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 24, 2009, 03:56:25 PM
@gadgetmall

I have a question about the blinking diode. There are two different at radio shack.

One has three legs. the other has two. Which one you recommend?
I am trying to do the idea you told me on the PM.

I have a question also on the connection of the LED to the primary . Is it the primary battery or is it the primary coil? I do not understand that connection after the cap is charged to the voltage you specified.

Please advise.

Jesus
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: IceStorm on February 24, 2009, 09:57:17 PM
The one with 3 leg is a IR Receiver so  if both came in the same package , the one with two leg is a IR Transmitter, not a led light.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 24, 2009, 11:53:03 PM
The one with 3 leg is a IR Receiver so  if both came in the same package , the one with two leg is a IR Transmitter, not a led light.

Thank you @icestorm !

Jesus
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 25, 2009, 05:21:17 AM
After finding my eureka, I decided to record a video and in doing it I HAD to stop the fan and change the settings to demonstrate that the voltage will indeed fall while when well tunned it will not.

Oh boy, as I did that I could never find that sweet spot again. I am so pissed. I even modified another fan so happy that I got my eureka but no luck. After loosing the sweet spot the voltage drop super fast.

Now I am playing with a new fan and different magnets. Unfortunately I dont have a hard drive magnet to play with but I do have many neos of different sizes and shapes. So far no good.

Unless someone come up with more ideas I will simply extinguish all my options and give up. I am totally convinced that I got it to work getting the voltage going up but it is very, very, very, very difficult to get that sweet spot, specially using magnets stuck to the fan. I really wish a good advice here!

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 25, 2009, 05:50:26 AM
Fausto:

First, don't ever give up.

Second, here is a thought for you.  Try removing the magnets and then fire it up and tune for best amp draw (least) as you did before adding the magnets.  Then, add the magnets back and retune.......I guess what I am suggesting here is that you recreate all of the steps that got you to where you were before.  Possibly, when you tune it with the magnets and then stop it later, something happens that won't allow you to find the sweet spot again. So, just do it like before and tune it without the magnets.  Stop it, and add the magnets and retune.  If this does work please do not expect me to explain to you why, other than that was the way you did if before if I was following you correctly.

Third, don't give up.

Bill
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 25, 2009, 05:55:22 AM
@Pirate88179

thank you Bill. It is encouraging your words. Good idea. Sometimes I forget to step back and look at it again with the gained knowledge.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on February 25, 2009, 01:26:55 PM
After finding my eureka, I decided to record a video and in doing it I HAD to stop the fan and change the settings to demonstrate that the voltage will indeed fall while when well tunned it will not.

Oh boy, as I did that I could never find that sweet spot again. I am so pissed. I even modified another fan so happy that I got my eureka but no luck. After loosing the sweet spot the voltage drop super fast.

Now I am playing with a new fan and different magnets. Unfortunately I dont have a hard drive magnet to play with but I do have many neos of different sizes and shapes. So far no good.

Unless someone come up with more ideas I will simply extinguish all my options and give up. I am totally convinced that I got it to work getting the voltage going up but it is very, very, very, very difficult to get that sweet spot, specially using magnets stuck to the fan. I really wish a good advice here!

Fausto.


@ Fausto

Over the last couple of days I have been reducing my fan running current from 100mA down to the present 20mA in steps. I have not yet reached a perfect stabilised point but after each stepped reduction of current I see a slow increase in battery voltage back up to almost the same level as before the current reduction was made. This climb in voltage can last for as long as three hours before it starts to very slowly drop again. Its hard to see when the climb ends and the drop begins because I'm not setup to measure the voltage in 100ths of a volt which is really necessary for this experiment. I just need to check with you that this is not the effect you are seeing because this IMO is a normal battery recovery situation which would usually appear to be much quicker if the discharge current level was a lot higher. This voltage climb could be even longer in yours and Gadget's case because you are both using a 48V fan and will be running at a lower current level than me with a 24V modified fan.

Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 25, 2009, 02:10:34 PM
@plengo

When I get stuck building something, what I usually do is that I stop what I am doing and prepare myself a good cup of coffee without any hurry and while the coffee is on the microwave I refresh my eyes with cool water. When the coffee is done I sit on my living room hammock and enjoy it slowly, then suddenly an idea pops up inside my head. If I can do it inside my head while sipping coffee peacefully, then I can do it on the real world. Almost all the failures are visualized before they happen.
The same thing if you go for a walk or a bicycle ride.

Jesus
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 25, 2009, 04:11:53 PM

@ Fausto

Over the last couple of days I have been reducing my fan running current from 100mA down to the present 20mA in steps. I have not yet reached a perfect stabilised point but after each stepped reduction of current I see a slow increase in battery voltage back up to almost the same level as before the current reduction was made. This climb in voltage can last for as long as three hours before it starts to very slowly drop again. Its hard to see when the climb ends and the drop begins because I'm not setup to measure the voltage in 100ths of a volt which is really necessary for this experiment. I just need to check with you that this is not the effect you are seeing because this IMO is a normal battery recovery situation which would usually appear to be much quicker if the discharge current level was a lot higher. This voltage climb could be even longer in yours and Gadget's case because you are both using a 48V fan and will be running at a lower current level than me with a 24V modified fan.

Hoppy
No, it is not what I have. I passed that phase already. I am at the 7ma current level now. In my last eureka moments what I have is really a voltage not dropping at all and actually going up. I am using an SLA in series with a wet cell lead acid. This way I can see the voltage of the SLA in a few minutes (like about 2 minutes) going up or down. At 24v and with a small SLA I can get by not having a meter with hundreds of a volt a measurement accuracy. This way I can very fast see if the device is properly tuned or not. Just for you to understand, I let the battery rest until no voltage change is noticable for the next 10 minutes. It is really at rest. Tunned the fan (position the magnets) and put it to spin. If the voltage goes down on the small SLA (5 amp/hour battery) it is no good. Stop, let the voltage rest another 10 minutes and start over again. Do that about 100 times on a day. Sleep late and youtube while you do that.

What I have been experiencing is indeed, while running, a voltage increase. The problem is that I must find the correct positioning of the magnets on the fan and it is simply not easy neither documentable. Even if I get it right, how can I study it without breaking the sweet spot and start from zero again?

This is a very sensitive device. It would be good to be able to formulate some theories why this is even possible, if I am not craizy neither gadgetmall.

There is a spot where the fan just spin at around 130 to 150rpm max and the sound becomes this 2 bips (lots of radiant on each one) that is very similiar to a goose, but there is no discernable wave pattern difference. One spot will simply work and others will not. It is really dog work.

Just for completeness, I am using 3 sk3606 on the positive of the battery + a few more diodes (they help to get to the minimun current consumption to 7ma average). My resistance is two 10k resistors plus a 5k pot (positioned at the max) and a 470 ohm resistor. All totalling 25470 ohms to the dot. That is the setup I found to work and have not changed since them. The only parameter being changed here is the magnet positioning. The system is running at around 12.55v (SLA) + 12.01v (Wet cell, and I know 12.01 is pretty low but who cares), totalling 24.56v. My fan has 150 ohm resistance on two widding and 150 ohm on the other two widding.

if you bring the current really down like I did, you will notice that at 140rpm the sound will be very peculiar and sounding really like a goose. That's where the miracle is happening. It is not about having power or current it is really about something else that we can not see on the scope or meters. The magnets somehow are interacting with the pulsating of the coils and charging the batteries.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on February 25, 2009, 05:19:00 PM
Thanks for your detailed procedure Fausto, much appreciated. I can hear the goose but I think I need to go lower in current to get the charging effect you are seeing.

Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: AbbaRue on February 25, 2009, 05:49:14 PM
One problem with these computer fan bedini motors is the fan blade. 
If we could build one of these without the fan blades that blow air we would have a lot more power
going back to the battery.
Right now most of the energy is wasted blowing that air around.
@plengo
Maybe the problem is you are stopping the fan from blowing freely with something blocking it.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on February 25, 2009, 06:11:17 PM
@ Fausto

A possible problem I can see using two batteries in series, is that I have found that when there is a difference in voltage between the batteries, one can rise in potential during discharge. I'm not saying that this is happening in your case but it is possible.

I have now reduced my fan speed as much as possible whilst remaining stable and I will monitor this over the next few hours. If I detect a drop in voltage I will then reposition my magnet. I'm using a flat hard disk magnet as per Gadget's suggestion. Once we can get our batteries charging it will be interesting to see how high the voltage will climb and whether it will stabilise at a certain level or eventually fall. Gadget reports that he can 'fry' his batteries so it will be exciting to see if we can get as advanced as him.

Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 25, 2009, 07:48:17 PM
@ Fausto

A possible problem I can see using two batteries in series, is that I have found that when there is a difference in voltage between the batteries, one can rise in potential during discharge. I'm not saying that this is happening in your case but it is possible.

I have now reduced my fan speed as much as possible whilst remaining stable and I will monitor this over the next few hours. If I detect a drop in voltage I will then reposition my magnet. I'm using a flat hard disk magnet as per Gadget's suggestion. Once we can get our batteries charging it will be interesting to see how high the voltage will climb and whether it will stabilise at a certain level or eventually fall. Gadget reports that he can 'fry' his batteries so it will be exciting to see if we can get as advanced as him.

Hoppy
I agree with you on the two battery case. I had that. My test is very simple. IF the voltage in one of the batteries, usually the smaller one, goes up and the other stays, it is a good sign but not necessarily the evidence YET. I wait a long time, usually about 4 hours, to see if they either stabilize or go up. IF go UP and the other stays, yeaaaaa, otherwise wait longer until you see that by the time running would be impossible not to have the voltage going down at 7ma. I roughly calculated that in 4 hours at 7ma at least the SLA should loose about 0.01v while the big battery does not change.

To both change I only need about 24 hours to loose 0.01v. That's is my way of knowing that guaranteed it is loosing power.

So, when I have my setup with 24v and a small SLA I will know very fast, in minutes, the direction of the setup.

It would be good if we could come up with a proof of concept that demonstrates what is happening here and be able to test faster.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on February 25, 2009, 08:36:50 PM
I agree with you on the two battery case. I had that. My test is very simple. IF the voltage in one of the batteries, usually the smaller one, goes up and the other stays, it is a good sign but not necessarily the evidence YET. I wait a long time, usually about 4 hours, to see if they either stabilize or go up. IF go UP and the other stays, yeaaaaa, otherwise wait longer until you see that by the time running would be impossible not to have the voltage going down at 7ma. I roughly calculated that in 4 hours at 7ma at least the SLA should loose about 0.01v while the big battery does not change.

To both change I only need about 24 hours to loose 0.01v. That's is my way of knowing that guaranteed it is loosing power.

So, when I have my setup with 24v and a small SLA I will know very fast, in minutes, the direction of the setup.

It would be good if we could come up with a proof of concept that demonstrates what is happening here and be able to test faster.

Fausto.

Curiosity has got the better of me and I had to answer a question that had been bugging me for a while. I started the test at 22:30hrs on 23 Feb at an on-load voltage of 12.68V with the fan pulling 100mA. This current was stepped down in increments to 20mA where I terminated the test at 16:50hrs today. A total of 3.12A/hrs was extracted from my 20A/hr battery over the duration of the test. The final on-load voltage was 12.65V, so I was naturally curious about why the terminal voltage was not a lot lower than this. I therefore decided to terminate the test and run the motor at 300mA to see the effect on the battery. Within two minutes the battery voltage fell to 12.52V which is 0.13V lower than the on-load voltage at the start of the test. This of course does not in any way suggest that a gain had not been made over and above battery capacity but it is nevertheless interesting in that it shows that terminal voltage is a very bad indicator of battery state of charge at very low discharge currents, which makes it very difficult indeed to detect and quantify any genuine capacity gains that might be achieved using this particular 'feedback to source' test setup.

Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 25, 2009, 09:52:46 PM
Curiosity has got the better of me and I had to answer a question that had been bugging me for a while. I started the test at 22:30hrs on 23 Feb at an on-load voltage of 12.68V with the fan pulling 100mA. This current was stepped down in increments to 20mA where I terminated the test at 16:50hrs today. A total of 3.12A/hrs was extracted from my 20A/hr battery over the duration of the test. The final on-load voltage was 12.65V, so I was naturally curious about why the terminal voltage was not a lot lower than this. I therefore decided to terminate the test and run the motor at 300mA to see the effect on the battery. Within two minutes the battery voltage fell to 12.52V which is 0.13V lower than the on-load voltage at the start of the test. This of course does not in any way suggest that a gain had not been made over and above battery capacity but it is nevertheless interesting in that it shows that terminal voltage is a very bad indicator of battery state of charge at very low discharge currents, which makes it very difficult indeed to detect and quantify any genuine capacity gains that might be achieved using this particular 'feedback to source' test setup.

Hoppy

Excellent point Hoppy. This is a very good insight of yours. When I did my over 200 load tests on my SSG i noticed that the battery will have a "curve" that is very peculiar to its load rate (what we call C10, C20, C??). Higher load rates the slope of the curve is higher, lower the load, smaller the slope. Also the curve is in the shape of stairs going down (see the picture). In any case the slope will be there no matter how light the load may be, even on as little as 7ma, but still be there. What will change will be the stair dimension and how long you will be in a certain "step". I even notice sometimes that the voltage can go up but not much while under load, but always in the end of a long run it will go down.

So voltage will not be a very good demonstration of the state of the charge but will definetely tell you where it will not be. In my case this battery of mine is a "baby" because I already know how she reacts to different loads and times because of the shear amount of tests I did on her. So for me she tells me a lot when the voltage changes at a certain rate at the voltage level she is sitting now, around 12 volts.

In the picture you will see different load rates and curves to demonstrate my point. Those curves are not real, real but they are very close to some of my load tests that I still have the data. They resemble a lot my real physical data.

You CAN know where you are on the battery by how it is behaving in voltage fluctuations while you are running the system for a while. You CAN know if you are on the "plataform" or on the "curve of the step" and even know the rate she will fall if you know your battery.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on February 25, 2009, 11:18:31 PM
@ Fausto

Yes, I call this layering and I too have seen this whilst spending too many hours load testing SG's. Its not so apparent when conventional DC charging. I tend to think its bad cell balance as a result of uneven desulfation during repeated shallow load test cycling. Anyway whetever its real cause its good that it provides you with a reference to which you can measure and interpret voltage variations more accurately. I'm continually learning more about batteries and they are complicated beasts, almost living entities with their own personalities!

Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 25, 2009, 11:31:59 PM
@ Fausto

Yes, I call this layering and I too have seen this whilst spending too many hours load testing SG's. Its not so apparent when conventional DC charging. I tend to think its bad cell balance as a result of uneven desulfation during repeated shallow load test cycling. Anyway whetever its real cause its good that it provides you with a reference to which you can measure and interpret voltage variations more accurately. I'm continually learning more about batteries and they are complicated beasts, almost living entities with their own personalities!

Hoppy

In the end I am totally with you Hoppy. They are indeed a living thing with their behavior.

Off course I will only really say that this Fan circuit is really working "after" I have this tested under many different batteries and not ghost voltage as a result, if this really charges the batteries to voltages way higher than when it started, more like from 12v to 13.65v or 14v than I will really believe it myself, backed up by evidence that would be undeniable.

For now, all I can do is test this little mysterious design over and over and over and over again with the best tools that I have at hand.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: AbbaRue on February 26, 2009, 06:13:44 AM
@All
Finally got my motor going right.
I'm using a fairly large 12 volt fan for my setup.
The fan was rated 7 watts at 12 volts.
For my setup I have a caduceus coil connected in series between the battery positive and the string of 4 diodes in the schematic.
But I am using only one 1000V  6A high speed diode in place of the 4 diodes.
Also the other single diode connected from the collector to positive is the same value 1000 V 6A diode.
I find the caduceus coil makes my motor spin faster for the same input current, also runs more stable.
I dug up an old 12 volt car battery.
After a long period of tweaking I got the motor to keep going at a slow steady speed.
It makes a nice chirping sound. 
The starting voltage was  6.92 volts. after 15 min. the voltage increased to 7.75 volts.
Will leave it running over night and see what it's at in the morning, hope it keeps going all night. 
Starting time here was 11:40 PM.

Very interesting!
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 26, 2009, 02:57:18 PM
The one with 3 leg is a IR Receiver so  if both came in the same package , the one with two leg is a IR Transmitter, not a led light.
That may be the case on some of them but we are talking blinking leds  there are also two leg blinking leds of various colors including rainbow . I have some three leg leds . they are two colors with one common . red and green . i also have some two color leds with two legs just reverse the voltage and get the other color . ac and you get both colors . It depends on what you are Buying as any led whether emitting or receiving blinking or tricolor can come in two or three legs .
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 26, 2009, 03:12:12 PM
One problem with these computer fan bedini motors is the fan blade. 
If we could build one of these without the fan blades that blow air we would have a lot more power
going back to the battery.
Right now most of the energy is wasted blowing that air around.
@plengo
Maybe the problem is you are stopping the fan from blowing freely with something blocking it.

I have tried Chopping off fan blades and left with a Knob. You loose the fly wheeling and there nothing to keep the momentum needed . now if we replace or cover the blades with a heaver solid piece of plastic that would work . . In My case i need the air to speed ratio ..


@Fasto . If you can Find a FLAT magnet . I use just one . it might cover 1/4 of the front surface . i dont use two and its only on one side . the ring magnet inside of these fans are very weak but the have a NS on them . I think My magnet is between NS . It sticks hard and there is no chance of it moving unless i push it really hard . Its less than 1/8 inch thick  .
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 26, 2009, 04:22:13 PM
@ Fausto

A possible problem I can see using two batteries in series, is that I have found that when there is a difference in voltage between the batteries, one can rise in potential during discharge. I'm not saying that this is happening in your case but it is possible.

I have now reduced my fan speed as much as possible whilst remaining stable and I will monitor this over the next few hours. If I detect a drop in voltage I will then reposition my magnet. I'm using a flat hard disk magnet as per Gadget's suggestion. Once we can get our batteries charging it will be interesting to see how high the voltage will climb and whether it will stabilise at a certain level or eventually fall. Gadget reports that he can 'fry' his batteries so it will be exciting to see if we can get as advanced as him.

Hoppy
Hi Hoppy . I never said i Fried a Battery with a powersupplybedini :) I kind of think it might after a few months but i am running a jt on it now and have a happy point of staying charged and lights .  I did say I fried batteries with My Bedini ,the original one that the thread was started on . I cooked two so far and working on the third .(SLA) It puts out so much voltage and current it lights a 130 volt incandescent bulb and it charges itself .If i dont switch out with two knife switches ever three days and load it while charging they burn up .  I have not Fried any wet cells ever only sla . Now My 48 volt PowersupplyBedini Will Charge a Dead  (10volt) wet cell battery to over 13 volts in a days time . I have done this . But i have not cooked one and i don't intend to as i dont have any more to cook so i want to be careful .I stopped My Big Bedini . i only have three SLA battery left .I know i was drying it out when the voltage gets to 17 volts (ouch)
 I am Glad you guys are seeing something strange . Its called OU :) I don't think you all would recognize it even if you are looking at it :)  I gave up trying to figure it out as why it works .Like i said before .I am happy with just using the extra power it makes and knowing i have Genuinely given you My Designs and results . I see you got it . But with all the test and stuff after you get it it messes it up . get it going set it in a corner for a few weeks and Build ya another one while its charging itself .If you find a flat magnet it will stay :)  Oh one more thing . It will adjust the sweet spot much better using two pots i can hit the spot anytime i want with the second one on there and neither of them are at  a full position . the second one offers full range from stopped to slow just above the charge point .
Best regards

GADGET
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 26, 2009, 06:43:04 PM
@All
Finally got my motor going right.
I'm using a fairly large 12 volt fan for my setup.
The fan was rated 7 watts at 12 volts.
For my setup I have a caduceus coil connected in series between the battery positive and the string of 4 diodes in the schematic.
But I am using only one 1000V  6A high speed diode in place of the 4 diodes.
Also the other single diode connected from the collector to positive is the same value 1000 V 6A diode.
I find the caduceus coil makes my motor spin faster for the same input current, also runs more stable.
I dug up an old 12 volt car battery.
After a long period of tweaking I got the motor to keep going at a slow steady speed.
It makes a nice chirping sound. 
The starting voltage was  6.92 volts. after 15 min. the voltage increased to 7.75 volts.
Will leave it running over night and see what it's at in the morning, hope it keeps going all night. 
Starting time here was 11:40 PM.

Very interesting!


This is so cool. I hope yours work and you can give us more details and pictures of your setup. Great work AbbaRue!!!
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: AbbaRue on February 26, 2009, 06:47:04 PM
After running for about 30 min. the motor went unstable and shut off.
I can't seem to keep a steady speed on the motor.

But I made a very interesting discovery:
I disconnected the battery and my meter still read 4.7 volts.
I had no capacitors in the circuit at all, so I couldn't account for the 4.7 volts.
I removed every piece one by one to home in on the power source.
The ground off my scope was needed. 

I am using a   TIP150 NPN Transistor. 
(I tested other NPN transistors and they worked also. but this one gets the highest voltage)
I discovered that if you connect the collector to ground and the emitter to some type of antenna,
you will get a voltage between the collector and emitter.
The collector is the positive and the emitter is the negative, the base isn't used.
The collector and emitter of a transistor can be used to make a negative resistance oscillator,
so this must have something to do with that as well.

Here is a link for those that are interested in the Negister:
http://jlnlabs.online.fr/cnr/negosc.htm

Maybe this is were the excess power in these systems is coming from.
When I placed a capacitor across it I built a 5.45 volt charge in a few minuites.
The type of antenna is important, keep trying different things for it.
I wonder if this could be used to power a Joule Thief?

This finding may be the start of a whole new topic.


Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 26, 2009, 06:54:29 PM
Hi Hoppy . I never said i Fried a Battery with a powersupplybedini :) I kind of think it might after a few months but i am running a jt on it now and have a happy point of staying charged and lights .  I did say I fried batteries with My Bedini ,the original one that the thread was started on . I cooked two so far and working on the third .(SLA) It puts out so much voltage and current it lights a 130 volt incandescent bulb and it charges itself .If i dont switch out with two knife switches ever three days and load it while charging they burn up .  I have not Fried any wet cells ever only sla . Now My 48 volt PowersupplyBedini Will Charge a Dead  (10volt) wet cell battery to over 13 volts in a days time . I have done this . But i have not cooked one and i don't intend to as i dont have any more to cook so i want to be careful .I stopped My Big Bedini . i only have three SLA battery left .I know i was drying it out when the voltage gets to 17 volts (ouch)
 I am Glad you guys are seeing something strange . Its called OU :) I don't think you all would recognize it even if you are looking at it :)  I gave up trying to figure it out as why it works .Like i said before .I am happy with just using the extra power it makes and knowing i have Genuinely given you My Designs and results . I see you got it . But with all the test and stuff after you get it it messes it up . get it going set it in a corner for a few weeks and Build ya another one while its charging itself .If you find a flat magnet it will stay :)  Oh one more thing . It will adjust the sweet spot much better using two pots i can hit the spot anytime i want with the second one on there and neither of them are at  a full position . the second one offers full range from stopped to slow just above the charge point .
Best regards

GADGET

Thank you Albert, I just opened an old hard drive that I have and will try using that magnet. It is very small in the shape of a boomerang.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 26, 2009, 07:58:36 PM
Abbarue:

Thanks for that link.  It looks very interesting to me.  I believe I have all of the components needed to give it a try.  I bookmarked it for later use.

Bill
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 27, 2009, 04:05:26 AM
for desperation and happiness and before the reality drops in I will say here: I DID IT. EUREKA!!!!!!!!!!

I simplified the circuit to be exactly like gadegtmall with one Sk3606 on the positive of the battery and another one on the collector of the transistor. No extra parts anywhere. Transistor MJE3055T and 1uf cap at the base of the transistor. I am using only a small hard-drive magnet (it has the shape of a boomerang and has a metal plate glue to it - a shield?). I put the magnet as per gadegtmall advice, 1/4 of the fan surface only. I tried a few places until the voltage stopped dropping.

It has been running for the last 4 hours with no absolute change in voltage, except that it seams that it is going up but definitely not going down. I already recorded two short videos to document the phenomena and will create more as the night progresses. Some pictures of the magnet on the fan is here.

I will also try later another video where I will show the exact same setup where it will NOT WORK but this time I will use another fan and not touch the fan with the magnet positioned correctly. This way I will be able to show how the battery goes down in voltage so I can show "how I know" that it is working. Make any sence?

I am so frustated with my previous success and total failure right after that sometimes I start thinking that I never had a success to start with, but no I do think now that I did it before and I am doing right now.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on February 27, 2009, 05:57:09 AM
for desperation and happiness and before the reality drops in I will say here: I DID IT. EUREKA!!!!!!!!!!

I simplified the circuit to be exactly like gadegtmall with one Sk3606 on the positive of the battery and another one on the collector of the transistor. No extra parts anywhere. Transistor MJE3055T and 1uf cap at the base of the transistor. I am using only a small hard-drive magnet (it has the shape of a boomerang and has a metal plate glue to it - a shield?). I put the magnet as per gadegtmall advice, 1/4 of the fan surface only. I tried a few places until the voltage stopped dropping.

It has been running for the last 4 hours with no absolute change in voltage, except that it seams that it is going up but definitely not going down. I already recorded two short videos to document the phenomena and will create more as the night progresses. Some pictures of the magnet on the fan is here.

I will also try later another video where I will show the exact same setup where it will NOT WORK but this time I will use another fan and not touch the fan with the magnet positioned correctly. This way I will be able to show how the battery goes down in voltage so I can show "how I know" that it is working. Make any sence?

I am so frustated with my previous success and total failure right after that sometimes I start thinking that I never had a success to start with, but no I do think now that I did it before and I am doing right now.

Fausto.

Good going Fasto . you know that magnet will come off of that shield :) But if its working for you let it rip .. I remove those magnets Buy sticking it to an iron beam with the shield sticking up above the beam and strike the shield opposite the magnet with a hammer. the magnet stays stuck to the beam   ,then it is slip off . they are very powerful as you see. if you do that save that shield . Its mu metal .

 Nice .

Al
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Goat on February 27, 2009, 06:25:13 AM
Congratulations Fausto! 

The fact that you replicated it "I simplified the circuit to be exactly like gadegtmall" as close as possible seems the key here.  I have not had any luck with mine and the only reason I can think of other than wizardry is that it's not made with the same components.

Anyways, keep picking at it, I'm looking forward to the videos :)

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: hoptoad on February 27, 2009, 07:55:30 AM
After running for about 30 min. the motor went unstable and shut off.
I can't seem to keep a steady speed on the motor.

But I made a very interesting discovery:
I disconnected the battery and my meter still read 4.7 volts.
I had no capacitors in the circuit at all, so I couldn't account for the 4.7 volts.
I removed every piece one by one to home in on the power source.
The ground off my scope was needed. 

I am using a   TIP150 NPN Transistor. 
(I tested other NPN transistors and they worked also. but this one gets the highest voltage)
I discovered that if you connect the collector to ground and the emitter to some type of antenna,
you will get a voltage between the collector and emitter.
The collector is the positive and the emitter is the negative, the base isn't used.
The collector and emitter of a transistor can be used to make a negative resistance oscillator,
so this must have something to do with that as well.

Here is a link for those that are interested in the Negister:
http://jlnlabs.online.fr/cnr/negosc.htm

Maybe this is were the excess power in these systems is coming from.
When I placed a capacitor across it I built a 5.45 volt charge in a few minuites.
The type of antenna is important, keep trying different things for it.
I wonder if this could be used to power a Joule Thief?

This finding may be the start of a whole new topic.
That's a very interesting observation Abbarue.

I'm not quite sure though from your description how you have your transistor and antennae? connected.

Any chance of posting a diagram, with a little more descriptive information.? You've certainly got my curiosity roused.
Having personally performed many experiments with inductive circuits over the years, I am inclined to think that induction is not in itself a pathway to FE.
However white noise converted to electricity via silicon (or any other semi-conductor) junctions may be another ball game altogether.

Cheers ...  P.S. Starting a new topic thread seems like a good idea to me.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 27, 2009, 12:47:31 PM
for desperation and happiness and before the reality drops in I will say here: I DID IT. EUREKA!!!!!!!!!!

I simplified the circuit to be exactly like gadegtmall with one Sk3606 on the positive of the battery and another one on the collector of the transistor. No extra parts anywhere. Transistor MJE3055T and 1uf cap at the base of the transistor. I am using only a small hard-drive magnet (it has the shape of a boomerang and has a metal plate glue to it - a shield?). I put the magnet as per gadegtmall advice, 1/4 of the fan surface only. I tried a few places until the voltage stopped dropping.

It has been running for the last 4 hours with no absolute change in voltage, except that it seams that it is going up but definitely not going down. I already recorded two short videos to document the phenomena and will create more as the night progresses. Some pictures of the magnet on the fan is here.

I will also try later another video where I will show the exact same setup where it will NOT WORK but this time I will use another fan and not touch the fan with the magnet positioned correctly. This way I will be able to show how the battery goes down in voltage so I can show "how I know" that it is working. Make any sence?

I am so frustated with my previous success and total failure right after that sometimes I start thinking that I never had a success to start with, but no I do think now that I did it before and I am doing right now.

Fausto.


Congratulations @plengo !!!!!

Jesus
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 27, 2009, 05:00:37 PM
the circuit ran until 5am with no voltage drop at all (I just woke up to drink some water). The opposite, it increased the big battery by 0.01v and the SLA another 0.01v. Again went to sleep.

7am woke up and look at my "baby" and it was, by my surprised, stopped. Voltage was rested at the initial voltage plus the winning 0.01v on both batteries. At least that made me very happy. I gave a fan a spin and surprisingly enough it would not spin for more than 5 seconds. NOTHING CHANGED, but the fan refuses to run. Hmmmmm!!!!?????

So, I changed a little bit the resistance of the potentiometer at the base of the transistor until it would spin without stopping. Went to sleep another hour. Woke up at 8am and voltage dropped on the big battery 0.01v and on the SLA another 0.03v. I am pissed.

So before go to work I let the battery rest and voltage came back to where I was yesterday before the eureka moment and tunned it back to my best as of yesterday. I left it running. I am glad I record at least three videos before going to sleep and after 8am this morning! So I am not craizy!!!

Something is very strange about how it runs in the night just fine but as soon as the sun comes up it changes. It could be the breadboard giving bad contatcts (very plausible since the fan vibrates the table). Or my cats go there and put their paws on the fan but that would not explain why it would not run at all in the morning with everything unchanged.

@gadgetmall did you have any of this before?

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on February 27, 2009, 08:22:53 PM
I've now made a couple of changes to my setup. One is changing the feedback diode from an IN4007 to an old 'top hat' type heavy duty diode more like the SK diode. I checked out the spec on the SK diode and matched up as well as I could. The other change is to fit an old germanium type diode between the transistor base and emitter. This has enabled me to reduce the speed of the fan considerably without it cutting out. I'm now running under 200 RPM which I could not do easily before this mod. The net result of these changes is that I've managed to hold voltage for 8 hours running at about 15mA. It will need a lot longer running like this before I can start getting excited but it is a good improvement on my previous setup.

After this current run I'm thinking about tidying up my wiring by removing the croc clips and re-wiring using heavy duty ultra low resistance Hi-Fi type oudspeaker wire. If the radiant is working its magic on the battery, this according to John Bedini's / Tom Beardon's theory should enhance the transfer of radiant energy to the battery. I hope my next post can start with 'Eureka' but I'm not holding my breath!

Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 27, 2009, 11:13:35 PM
I've now made a couple of changes to my setup. One is changing the feedback diode from an IN4007 to an old 'top hat' type heavy duty diode more like the SK diode. I checked out the spec on the SK diode and matched up as well as I could. The other change is to fit an old germanium type diode between the transistor base and emitter. This has enabled me to reduce the speed of the fan considerably without it cutting out. I'm now running under 200 RPM which I could not do easily before this mod. The net result of these changes is that I've managed to hold voltage for 8 hours running at about 15mA. It will need a lot longer running like this before I can start getting excited but it is a good improvement on my previous setup.

After this current run I'm thinking about tidying up my wiring by removing the croc clips and re-wiring using heavy duty ultra low resistance Hi-Fi type oudspeaker wire. If the radiant is working its magic on the battery, this according to John Bedini's / Tom Beardon's theory should enhance the transfer of radiant energy to the battery. I hope my next post can start with 'Eureka' but I'm not holding my breath!

Hoppy

How big is your battery in amp/hours?

I also use a 1uf cap in series with the resistor and the base of the transitor. This will allow you to cut that current in half but you will have to change drastically the resistance value. It will also have a more pronounced radiant self-oscilation mode.

Are you using magnets on the fan? can you post a picture of your setup?

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on February 27, 2009, 11:48:21 PM
How big is your battery in amp/hours?

I also use a 1uf cap in series with the resistor and the base of the transitor. This will allow you to cut that current in half but you will have to change drastically the resistance value. It will also have a more pronounced radiant self-oscilation mode.

Are you using magnets on the fan? can you post a picture of your setup?

Fausto.


The battery I'm using for this test run is 48A/hr car battery but with one bad cell so it acts as a much smaller battery. I'm still trying to find a small wet cell battery.

I have a magnet covering about a quarter of the fan as in your picture. I will post a photo tomorrow.

Hoppy

Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 28, 2009, 03:44:50 AM
so tonight I am having a "eureka" again. Do you know what? I think this baby runs better in the night. I let it run the whole day and all it did is eat energy, but now in the night it creates energy, just like plants!!!

I am very glad I am making many videos to show that, but I don't want to publish in youtube yet, until I really have something that is replicable.  (sorry for my bad English). This thing simply runs better at night.

I will, this time, let it run without any interference from me the whole night and if necessary the whole next day. If it stops in the morning I will let it down. SO in the night I can turn it on again. I will record on video the whole ordeal.

Can someone please interject here and come up with possible theories to explain this and may be even forecast possible experiments and solutions?

@gadgetmall

Are you sure you are running this things during the day?????

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 28, 2009, 03:53:44 AM

The battery I'm using for this test run is 48A/hr car battery but with one bad cell so it acts as a much smaller battery. I'm still trying to find a small wet cell battery.

I have a magnet covering about a quarter of the fan as in your picture. I will post a photo tomorrow.

Hoppy



Hoppy, dont you think that 1w/hour (more or less) is enough to show a voltage drop on a 48 amp/hour battery? Just asking here, no pun. Did you run this during the day or night? can you make a video or record the sound of your fan, please?

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 28, 2009, 04:19:47 AM
I am not craizy.

Ok, it is now  about 10pm and the voltage already went up about .01v on all three meters and two batteries. This thing definitely runs better at the night.

I have recorded another video showing the whole progress from ugly, to bad, to ok, to nice, to beautifull, to success (if one can call this success).

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 28, 2009, 04:31:53 AM
Fausto:

I am going to take a stab at this question that you asked.  Do you live in a house or an apartment?  Do you have many AM radio stations near you?  My guess, and this is ONLY a guess, is that AM radio stations have to turn down their power at night due to the increase in their signal distances which happens at night.  Perhaps, and only perhaps, your device is receiving some energy from this or a source like this that increases during the night?  That is the only thing I can even remotely think of that may be happening here.  Other than that.....I have no ideas left.

Bill
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 28, 2009, 04:35:31 AM
Fausto:

I am going to take a stab at this question that you asked.  Do you live in a house or an apartment?  Do you have many AM radio stations near you?  My guess, and this is ONLY a guess, is that AM radio stations have to turn down their power at night due to the increase in their signal distances which happens at night.  Perhaps, and only perhaps, your device is receiving some energy from this or a source like this that increases during the night?  That is the only thing I can even remotely think of that may be happening here.  Other than that.....I have no ideas left.

Bill

Thank you Bill,

I like that thinking. So once I get this thing nail down I can run it under a Faraday's cage? and if the same phenomena happens inside the cage than we know it is not radio station signals. Very good. Thank you!

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 28, 2009, 05:20:53 AM
It is 11:18 pm, Friday. I can safely say: it is going up in voltage. 3 meters showing 3 different averages from 2 different batteries of totally different amp sizes. They are ALL going up in voltage.

This is not only an eureka moment only but it is also recorded in history. I have enough videos to show the values going up though out time and it is not going down. I still have another 5 hours to go before sun comes up.

So let's us keep record of this thing. If all works well I will publish all videos, the bad ones and the good ones.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 28, 2009, 06:22:54 AM
12:22am, the fan stopped running and refuses to run.

I will not change any setting. Voltages are up 0.03v from where I started.

I will try again.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 28, 2009, 06:44:57 AM
12:40am. The fan stopped again.

I change the pot resistance (I lowered it) and put the fan to spin. The voltage of the batteries is even higher than 2 days ago.

I have a theory: the fan stops spinning in the early morning because it takes that long for the battery to charge and get out of tune and stop the fan.

Than I change the tunning, put the fan to spin and just looses energy. When I come back from work (at the night) I re-tunned it again and let it spin before I go to sleep which lets me see it very closely the voltage going up. I go to sleep the voltage goes up even more and stops the fan.

Morning comes, I change the tunning (which makes it out of tune) and run it the whole day. I am at work and can not watch closely, so battery goes down. I come from work get frustated and the re-tunned it again and the process repeats itself over and over again making me craizy.

Now I have all in video and I am not craizy. This thing indeed charges the battery when properly tunned but will get out of tune when the voltage of the battery goes up.

I guess gadgetmall get it very well tunned so that it does not get out of tune when the battery charges.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Groundloop on February 28, 2009, 07:14:07 AM
@Plengo,

What is the temperature at night compared to the temperature in day time?
(In the room where the fan is running.)

Electronics uses more current when it is warm than when it is cold.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 28, 2009, 07:38:19 AM
Groundloop:

Great point, I had not considered that.

Bill
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on February 28, 2009, 11:07:24 AM
Hoppy, dont you think that 1w/hour (more or less) is enough to show a voltage drop on a 48 amp/hour battery? Just asking here, no pun. Did you run this during the day or night? can you make a video or record the sound of your fan, please?

Fausto.

It took 21hrs to register a one hundreth of a volt drop on my 'Fluke' meter! I will now try making more adjustments to hopefully turn this into a gain. My setup pics are attached.

Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on February 28, 2009, 12:52:33 PM
Hi all

Two hours ago having terminated my first test run, I re-adjusted my running current down to about 10mA. However, in doing thisI accidentally shorted two of my fan connections a couple of times which caused a heavy draw on the battery of over 1 Amp. This caused a big reduction in voltage. After the voltage had recovered I left the fan running with increased base resistance to reduce running current and speed by fitting a second low resistance pot . I have just looked at the voltage and it has risen by 100th of a volt above the start voltage of the first test. Is this a shout 'Eureka' moment??

Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 28, 2009, 02:49:39 PM
Hi all

Two hours ago having terminated my first test run, I re-adjusted my running current down to about 10mA. However, in doing thisI accidentally shorted two of my fan connections a couple of times which caused a heavy draw on the battery of over 1 Amp. This caused a big reduction in voltage. After the voltage had recovered I left the fan running with increased base resistance to reduce running current and speed by fitting a second low resistance pot . I have just looked at the voltage and it has risen by 100th of a volt above the start voltage of the first test. Is this a shout 'Eureka' moment??

Hoppy

Hey Hoppy, if you lost about 1 amp by accident I would highly let the battery sit for a couple of hours to make sure the voltage will not raise while running the fan because of the fact that the battery is simply stabilizing its voltage. I felt for that mistake a couple of times too, making me feel very frustrated before.

But, it also could be an Eureka moment of yours. Dont that make you feel good?

If this is indeed a voltage rise because of the device it is very inline with my findings about it works when the voltage of the battery is in a certain level while also well tuned for that voltage. As soon as your battery goes up to another level, it gets out of tune and the fan will stop spinning.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on February 28, 2009, 03:46:12 PM
Hey Hoppy, if you lost about 1 amp by accident I would highly let the battery sit for a couple of hours to make sure the voltage will not raise while running the fan because of the fact that the battery is simply stabilizing its voltage. I felt for that mistake a couple of times too, making me feel very frustrated before.

But, it also could be an Eureka moment of yours. Dont that make you feel good?

If this is indeed a voltage rise because of the device it is very inline with my findings about it works when the voltage of the battery is in a certain level while also well tuned for that voltage. As soon as your battery goes up to another level, it gets out of tune and the fan will stop spinning.

Fausto.

My voltage is still higher than the start of the first test run.  When the fan is stopped at the end of a test run and the load is released, if the load resistance is then increased to lower the running current then the final voltage seems to end up higher than the previous run. I saw this effect even before I started my serious test runs and I've seen the same effect when running the Bedini energiser. My fan has not yet stopped during a test run, so I dont know how this affects the final voltage but it may also cause a rise of voltage over the previous run.

Overall I'm gaining voltage from one test run to another but loosing voltage during a test run if it is long enough and that's a long time! It sounds daft but this is what I'm seeing. Therefore this begs the question -is the battery really charging?? To answer this, I think it may be necessary for us all to carry out several long duration consecutive test runs without the fan stopping in mid run (if that's possible) or making any inter run current changes to eliminate the possibility that fan interruptions and current alterations have caused an increase in end voltage over and above the initial  'on-load' start voltage.

I have noticed distinct variances in charging with an SG energiser from day to night. This has been reported by several experimenters, so given that we are running an SG type fan setup, this effect should be seen. I think its to do with temperature as Groundloop suggests.

Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 28, 2009, 03:55:32 PM
@Plengo,

What is the temperature at night compared to the temperature in day time?
(In the room where the fan is running.)

Electronics uses more current when it is warm than when it is cold.

Groundloop.

The same temperature pretty much, around 68 F. Good point!
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: hartiberlin on February 28, 2009, 04:43:15 PM
Hi Fausto,
it also has to do with the moon and the sun and its gravity.

This way the electrolyte in the batteries is influenced,
exactly like the tides in the sea.

We also have this effect in the saltwater-Zamak batteries, which usually run
better during night time !

It seems to be a gravity effect on the battery components..

Surely also your grounding of your equipment can influence your setup
and also the oxidation of the metal pot contacts
versus the graphite layer in your pots !

Just try to measure the resistances of your pots and replace them
with real resistors and solder it all up...

These experimental boards are not good for replication
experiments, cause the resistances of these contact materials
can change also due to oxidation layers of the metals involved and
also during night due to gravity influences...

Are you a smoker ?
Smoke can also put oxidation layers onto the contacts...!

So the best thing is to hook it all up onto a real PCB board or
a wooden board with some nails in it and then solder
all to the nails, which work as solder points.

So you can buildup fast a replication board and have it all
soldered up and no contact problems, which can ruin your
replication successes...

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on February 28, 2009, 04:51:22 PM
Good points Stefan. I try to avoid experimental boards for the reasons you give but to be honest I don't think my croc lead lash-up is much better!

Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: hartiberlin on February 28, 2009, 05:41:46 PM
Here you can see, how the sun and the moon
influence the gravity of fluids on earth:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tides

and especially:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Spingtide.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Neaptide.jpg

This will also alter the contact potential between the fluids
(electrolyte) inside the battery and the electrodes, so
it will change the battery voltage and the current capabilities.

Regards, Stefan.
P.S: Why are people living near the sea don´t use the enormous tide water level
differences not more to generate power ??
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: hartiberlin on February 28, 2009, 05:51:52 PM
Good points Stefan. I try to avoid experimental boards for the reasons you give but to be honest I don't think my croc lead lash-up is much better!

Hoppy
Hi Hoppy,
yes,croco
cables are also very bad, cause:
1. The wire diameter is normally very thin, so there is a ohmical drop, so they
work as resistors...bad for big currents..

2. the connection between the cables and the croco clamp is very bad,
cause it is normally only cropped into the copper,
so after some time the blank copper oxidizes from the air and
the resistance from croco clamp to cable will  go up.
These croco cables are being manufactured by children cheaply in
China or Asia, so they are not soldered at the ends...

So better get a piece of Wood plate and use some nails, hammer them
into the wood, solder their tips and solder cables directly to the nails
and transistors and components...
This is an easy and cheap way to get a demo device model
rigged up and keep it working without any contact problems.
Surely you have to make sure to use a good soldering iron
to not get bad "cold" soldering points, but this probably can be
measured with an Ohmmeter, if the soldering points are okay.

Also don´t use too thin cables, as there will always be a drop of
voltage across them and a ground cable in a circuit should
be pretty massive to not get any effects of voltage drops,
especially if you work with charging up other batteries, so you
don´t loose too much power in thin diameter sized cables...

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on February 28, 2009, 06:20:45 PM
Stefan, yes I'm being lazy and this particular experiment needs good quality hook-ups which is why I mentioned in an earlier post that I really need to use thick cables and solder all connections.

Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 28, 2009, 06:50:22 PM
Today I am letting the fan running even though it is only eating the energy of the battery. I will let run tonight too unchanged and record videos as it happens.

I am right now converting the videos for youtube so that I can publish the ugly, bad and good stuff.

Now some pictures that I took of this running fan as I modified it.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on February 28, 2009, 06:52:32 PM
some more...
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on March 01, 2009, 04:17:30 AM
so tonight I am having a "eureka" again. Do you know what? I think this baby runs better in the night. I let it run the whole day and all it did is eat energy, but now in the night it creates energy, just like plants!!!

I am very glad I am making many videos to show that, but I don't want to publish in youtube yet, until I really have something that is replicable.  (sorry for my bad English). This thing simply runs better at night.

I will, this time, let it run without any interference from me the whole night and if necessary the whole next day. If it stops in the morning I will let it down. SO in the night I can turn it on again. I will record on video the whole ordeal.

Can someone please interject here and come up with possible theories to explain this and may be even forecast possible experiments and solutions?

@gadgetmall

Are you sure you are running this things during the day?????

Fausto.
O My Side is hurting from Laughing so hard Fausto . ;D I have to say this . ok i see your cardboard mount . are you running the magnet up in the picture or flopped over ? Mine of course is flopped over  . I got one more tidbit  that i can think of . there is a spring and a washer in the front part of the fan . well mine anit there . this makes the fan much deeper and therefor more coverage in the stator area .. I remembered  this because I'm in to the second one and i tossed it too . Mine is running Continuous for a week now . Quacking along . are you using two pots ? and also Mine is running two batts also plus i have a Jt hooked up to the 6 volt with a Vdivider . . I'm trying to keep up with you guys and see if it makes a difference . It Doesn't . It runs with only a little change in speed as the battery takes a hit and recovers . Seems to speed up and slow down .Battery's are very high .. i will measure .. 14.38 on the wet cell 6.65 on the sla 6 volt .. i cant remember exactly but the wetcell was below 13 and the sla was 5 or so . Sorry . i forgot to track it . i got so many other projects Happening and My girl is sick and now i am too . Keep up the good work . I recall that this Might work Better and it might have something to do with the electrons in the air and ionosphere and the moon Phase ..:) Hey just as good a explanation as energy from the vacuum . i do feel it is has a life of its own .. It does Strange things Hardly no one in their life time gets to see and experience . I really Love Mine and when summer hits I'm working on the BIG one . One more thing If you notice in My Video all the connections are Short and on the cap itself .No wire on the transistor cap diode . very compact . only wires are going to the pots and the osc cap and switch . these wont affect the Main circuit  Also My cap and circuit it Directly over (or under) the magnet rotor . It just Misses it By a Wire thickness . I have to sometimes put the wire and transistor down with a pencil if i remove the case . well . Good going guys . Cant wait for the Video Fausto and thank you For sticking with this . You will be very happy when the Circuit is Solid . EDIT**** I made the Comment about the moon before hartiberlin posted the info . so there is something to thats. Very Interesting .

Al
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on March 01, 2009, 04:33:41 AM
First video in the series of about 30 or more.

I can only thank you gadgetmall, without your willingness to share your invention I would not be able to replicate it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUxmCdi7kms

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on March 01, 2009, 06:04:33 AM
O My Side is hurting from Laughing so hard Fausto . ;D I have to say this . ok i see your cardboard mount . are you running the magnet up in the picture or flopped over ? Mine of course is flopped over  . I got one more tidbit  that i can think of . there is a spring and a washer in the front part of the fan . well mine anit there . this makes the fan much deeper and therefor more coverage in the stator area .. I remembered  this because I'm in to the second one and i tossed it too . Mine is running Continuous for a week now . Quacking along . are you using two pots ? and also Mine is running two batts also plus i have a Jt hooked up to the 6 volt with a Vdivider . . I'm trying to keep up with you guys and see if it makes a difference . It Doesn't . It runs with only a little change in speed as the battery takes a hit and recovers . Seems to speed up and slow down .Battery's are very high .. i will measure .. 14.38 on the wet cell 6.65 on the sla 6 volt .. i cant remember exactly but the wetcell was below 13 and the sla was 5 or so . Sorry . i forgot to track it . i got so many other projects Happening and My girl is sick and now i am too . Keep up the good work . I recall that this Might work Better and it might have something to do with the electrons in the air and ionosphere and the moon Phase ..:) Hey just as good a explanation as energy from the vacuum . i do feel it is has a life of its own .. It does Strange things Hardly no one in their life time gets to see and experience . I really Love Mine and when summer hits I'm working on the BIG one . One more thing If you notice in My Video all the connections are Short and on the cap itself .No wire on the transistor cap diode . very compact . only wires are going to the pots and the osc cap and switch . these wont affect the Main circuit  Also My cap and circuit it Directly over (or under) the magnet rotor . It just Misses it By a Wire thickness . I have to sometimes put the wire and transistor down with a pencil if i remove the case . well . Good going guys . Cant wait for the Video Fausto and thank you For sticking with this . You will be very happy when the Circuit is Solid . EDIT**** I made the Comment about the moon before hartiberlin posted the info . so there is something to thats. Very Interesting .

Al

Thank you gadgetmall for all this tips. I am running my fan tip over but I already tried so many positions and options that I lost track. I am publishing all my log videos with all the bad stuff and the good stuff and this only because I am totally convinced this really works and I have witness it myself but it is not perfect yet. There are lots of weird stuff happening.

BTW, in the beginning I mention about you without even knowing who you are so please allow the progress of the videos to see that I really respect you and your work. I can only thank you very deeply for your outstanding desire to share such a "craizy" design and keep it honest and open. Really thank you Albert.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 01, 2009, 08:12:05 AM
Fausto:

Great job on the replications of Al's device.  You are sticking with it and that is a good thing. More good things will be coming I am sure.

Bill
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Groundloop on March 01, 2009, 11:19:56 AM
Hi,

I did not have a 48 volt fan so I built this motor charger instead. I use two air core coils positioned 180 degrees
around a central rotor with two Neo magnets. The coils is 48 Ohm each. The NTE109 is Germanium diodes.
The motor runs very well with little usage from the battery. If I tune the potmeter too low the rotor slows down
while the battery voltage goes up, but the rotor stop after a while. I can't find any tuning spots where the rotor
keeps running while the battery voltage goes up. (So far.)

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gyulasun on March 01, 2009, 12:38:09 PM
Hi Groundloop,

You have a very interesting schematic, congratulations.   Regarding the charging part, a possible improvement would seem to be to bridge the potmeter's wiper with a capacitor to the common point of the potmeter and the NTE109 diode.  This way you could minimize the AC voltage drop across the potmeter part that is in series from the charging AC coil current point of view, ok? 
(I mean the potmeter left side ending that is common with the diode and you simply shunt it with a capacitor to the wiper of the potmeter, starting to test from about 100pF and up to the nanoFarad and maybe to a few microFarad.) 

Regards,  Gyula
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Groundloop on March 01, 2009, 12:46:52 PM
@gyulasun,

OK, I will try that.

Attached is a image of my moving Iron amp meter while the motor is running.
(The scale of the meter is 1 ampere. First marking after zero is 0,1 ampere.)

[Edit1] I did try capacitors ranging from 5pF 33pF 100pF 1nF 10nF 220nF. At 220nF the trigger coil started to
          work as an generator and slowed down the rotor due to Lentz law. So I did not work.

Groundloop
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gyulasun on March 01, 2009, 01:58:01 PM
Many thanks for testing it,  it is pity Nature does not give in easily...

I would like to refer to this link and give credit to gadgetmall where he showed his schematic with the capacitor shunted potmeters, though in a bit different way: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6123.msg159208#msg159208

Keep up good work.

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on March 01, 2009, 08:07:42 PM
Hi all

I've had my Eureka moment!! Having watched Fausto's excellent set of videos, I altered my circuit a little to replicate his output diode network with the neon and cap. Initially I started to see small increases in voltage using two 2.8A/hr SLA 12V batteries in series. The voltage eventually stopped rising, I happened to be looking at my AVO current meter which is in series with the battery when I readjusted the pot and noticed that the sweet spot appeared to be in a sub-resonant dip where the current drops and then rises again. These dips will be familiar to anyone who has experimented with Bedini SG energisers. I very carefully adjusted the pot untill I was in the bottom of the dip and at this point I started to see the voltage rise again. This time it kept on rising even though I was drawing 48mA from the batteries and the fan was spinning quite fast (I need to measure the RPM). The initial rise was rather eratic with the voltage rising and falling but eventually it steadied and began to rise with no fluctuations. As the voltage steadied, the fan began to vibrate quite badly and I had to clamp it down to my bench!

I have attached three scope shots of the waveform taken across the transistor collector / emitter. The first photo is taken at 5V / 20uS. Photo 2 is at 5V/2mS and photo 3 is at 5V / 0.5mS. I'm quite staggered at these waveforms as they show the spikes developing into sinus waveforms in photo 1.

I think that Gadget has really found something here and thanks to him we can explore this in detail as its replicated by two of us now. I'm using a converted 24V fan, so the fan appears not to be too critical only the tuning.

Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Groundloop on March 01, 2009, 08:26:13 PM
@Hoppy,

What was the start up rest voltage on your batteries?
Did the voltage in the batteries climb above the start up voltage?

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on March 01, 2009, 09:50:48 PM
@Hoppy,

What was the start up rest voltage on your batteries?
Did the voltage in the batteries climb above the start up voltage?

Groundloop.

That's a good question because I did not record the exact start up rest voltage because the charging effect started up suddenly whilst I was fiddling with the tuning without me being prepared to do a recorded test run. However, I can say that the rest voltage was higher than the voltage reached before I terminated the test run. I had hoped to let it run on but the neon leads shorted together and knocked it out of tune after the voltage had climbed up at about 0.2V.  I can only get good high charging with two poor conditioned 12V SLA batteries in series with a combined on-load voltage of around 18V. I tried out two well conditioned good batteries of the same make and labelled capacity but could not find a 'sweet spot' where I could get the voltage to climb very well.

I'm happy I've seen the effect that both Gadget and Fausto have seen over a period of time but I think the cause of it is something to do with the two batteries being bad and in in series because I cannot get the effect with just one bad 12V battery. It will be interesting to see if Fausto can get high charging with two small well charged and conditioned SLA  batteries.

This is an excellent project even if it turns out that this is not a true self-charging setup because it will have cleared a few mysteries about other motor projects running at very low power which appear to self-charge or at least hold unity.

Hoppy

Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Groundloop on March 01, 2009, 10:26:34 PM
@Hoppy,

Thank you for taking time to answer my questions. I could also see some voltage gain with my
two coil pulse motor when tuned to very low current usage and ONLY when using two drained
12 volt 7 ampere batteries in series. When it happened the rotor slowed down and did stop after
a few minutes. Keep up the good work.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on March 02, 2009, 12:30:10 AM
@Hoppy,

I am very glad you are able to see this too. Today I only have been having bad moments. I changed my board trying to reduce the number of resistors and make it more compact preparing to make a real mica-board with parts solded but doing that I am not able to find that "second sweet" spot where the voltage rises only the "first sweet" spot where the voltage does not drop. So I am able to see two spots: first and second.

I am recording everything. I still have about 20 more videos to upload because at around video 20th or something is when I really had the voltage going up without any doubts that it was really working (at least for me).

With all that being said, one thing I would watch out for, which I did fall many times in the beginning of my research was that sometimes while I was trying to find the sweet spot and therefore changing the whole configuration (changing too many parameters) I would drain the battery but them I would find the "first sweet" spot (the one that only keeps the voltage steady) and the voltage would climb very fast giving the "false" impression that it was working. Indeed it was working but not perfectly. It was a combination of the battery not being used really (first spot - restoring the used energy back to the battery) and at the same time the battery resting to its stable voltage, giving in the end the idea that it was really climbing in voltage. Only the "second sweet" spot will do that, which I did record it camera very later (and only after that I really had courage to publish the videos so others could try it too).

That "second sweet" spot is very difficult to find it by measurement. Anything can change that, the board, the distance of the components, the wiring, the air, the day light, sun, moon you name it. It is sometimes very frustating, but at least now I know it does exists.

And concerning what you said about other motors, yes, I also agree with you. I have played a long time with the Adams motor (I have probably over 50 video logs but never publish neither I am planning to do it yet) and I notice the same phenomena too but it was very difficult to find it and repeat it neither was it believable. I was suspicious of it but only after gadedtmall published his findings I knew that it does exists. Now I know that this is what I had with my Adams motor.

@Groundloop,

Thank you for participating at this thread. You are a very valuable friend here. Thanks again for that board you sent (I still have not time for that research yet).

Fausto.

Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on March 02, 2009, 06:40:27 AM
@all  I want to thank everybody here working on this project .  I will be Building a Big one this summer and starting a new thread modifying window fans that you see in dollar stores for a few bucks . Once you guys get this one nailed down and realize i dont kid about this stuff i will move on to the next project .. . I have been in electronics a long time but lost most it from not using it .you guys are doing very good and almost got it and i love the fact that there are some very Smart People with good details being recorded open source . . I hope My second one runs like this one . I will be using some different parts . I found most of the stuff and circuits i make use pre 1970 Vintage electronics that you cant get anymore. I wonder why ?? those parts did something special and its hard to get stuff to do the things they do . .. Anyways im going to try a darlington on the next 48 volt mod and see where it goes . If one switching transistor works i bet two will work better with faster charging power and more speed . My fan Creeps and charges . . I have three projects to finish up for some people and then i can play again . thank you guys again .
Fausto . simplify the stuff if you have it to spare . some of my project fans everything was soldered to a cap even the pots . has anyone tried a zener diode on the base emmiter  reversed . i think this is what i got but i am not sure .possible the transistor is acting like a negistor ..?  I guess i will find out on number 2 48 volt fan .  you are so very close . . It might be just a winding or two that makes the difference . Like the JT Circuit .. on more loop will throw it out of tune  possible PF capacitance was making the difference on you proto board could be simulated with Pf caps  to get her rolling again .   /?.  ?
 Gn
Gadget . 
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on March 02, 2009, 09:58:38 AM
@ Fausto

The 'second' sweet spot voltage rise is very convincing but we do need to ensure that the final charge voltage rises above the 'at rest' start voltage to be sure that the battery is in fact charging. Its very easy to miss recording this important piece of data when experimenting and its good that Groundloop raised this question. If I can see this happening I will be convinced but at the moment I feel we may be observing something very interesting but not necessarily a true charging situation that can be used practically by scaling up. I hope that you will be able to show us this important 'at rest' start voltage before you demo your 'sweet spot' battery charging in your later videos. I would suggest that we need to give our batteries at least four hours rest before taking this voltage measurement prior to filming the charging event.

Back to the bench!

Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Goat on March 02, 2009, 10:09:54 AM
@ Hoppy

Bedini mentioned the need to drain and recharge the batteries several times in order to achieve a shorter recharge time on the conditioned batteries, I'm not sure if it would be useful on this experiment being that there is only one battery involved but it might be worth a try.

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on March 02, 2009, 11:30:06 AM
@ Hoppy

Bedini mentioned the need to drain and recharge the batteries several times in order to achieve a shorter recharge time on the conditioned batteries, I'm not sure if it would be useful on this experiment being that there is only one battery involved but it might be worth a try.

Regards,
Paul

Good point. The two small 2.8A/hr SLA's I'm using for my current test run have been cycled and conditioned numerous times using a Bedini energiser and in much better condition than the batteries in my previous test run. I have been able to reach the 'sweet spot' but with these batteries the voltage did rise a couple of hundreth's of a volt but have stabilised and at the moment just holding very well. At the moment I'm 0.07V below start voltage. The two batteries used in my previous test run were also Bedini conditioned but drained down. The charging effect was much more pronounced with these and perhaps significantly the voltages were very unequal.

Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: AbbaRue on March 04, 2009, 01:22:11 AM
@gadgetmall
Have you tried charging a number of NiCd or Lithium rechargeables in series.
They are usually 1.25 volts each so you can combine as many as needed to get any voltage.
9 Volt rechargeables are made from six 1.25 batteries in series and are only 7.5 volts when fully charged.
So you could us 2 in series to get 15 Volts or 3 in series to get 22.5 Volts.
The reason I mention them is because they will charge and discharge much quicker then the Lead Acid batteries,
so the effect will be noticed much quicker.
Instead of having to run the setup all night you will know if the batteries are charging for sure within minutes.
Maybe these types of batteries don't work with the bedini circuit I haven't researched it.
I have never seen a very small 12 V lead acid battery, but I have seen 6 V ones that are quite small. 

Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: IceStorm on March 04, 2009, 02:10:38 AM
Hi AbbaRue,
                 
                   You bring a excellent point here, and to anwser your question, NiCd battery work very well, John used a 9v battery in his Cigar Box who ran for 7 years non stop. The best test here to know for sure is to run it on a extremely small battery like AbbaRue said. A 9v battery is usualy 150mA rated so if your setup use under 50mA i think that will be the best choice for a fullproof.

Best Regards,
IceStorm

EDIT: Typo
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: IceStorm on March 04, 2009, 06:14:34 AM
If you want to stick to lead acid there some nice little one here http://www.interstatebatteries.com/cs_estore/Products/RT/PID-SLA1010(Other+Products).aspx?dsNavigation=Nu~Part%20Number,Ns~product%20Type|101|1|,N~44-2147384810-4294967267

12v 700mAh
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on March 04, 2009, 09:16:21 AM

Yes I agree, it is important to see the charging effect go above the 'at rest' voltage using small new batteries either Nicad or LA that are reasonably well pre-charged.

Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 04, 2009, 09:36:38 AM
I am using 2 9 volt rechargeables on my replication if my shipment from all electronics ever gets here with my neons....

Bill
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on March 04, 2009, 04:59:23 PM
I am creating a new series of video logs this time using only 2 SLAs. They are each 5 amp/h sizes. This way one can know faster if it works or not.

One thing I have notice in my last tests is this weird effect. I have the circuit tunned and spinning steadily voltage drops .01v and stabilizes there. Eight hours later I see a gain in 0.01v and the fan is spinning very well. All looks good and well. It seams to be a not only self-runner but also a gain. Then all of a sudden the fan just stops. Battery resting voltage is exactly where I started 8 hours ago, sometimes even flick a little bit going above the initial voltage.

I am puzzled, I give the fan a spin by hand and wait 5 minutes. Voltage drop 0.01v and fan stops spinning. Voltage goes back to where it was. I give another spin by hand and the same happen, BUT, if I try that a couple more times, without changing anything, then the fan spins good for another 8 hours but now the voltage only drops until the whole process starts again. It finds another bottom voltage plataform (usually the same as before) and goes up and stops.

I have a theory: The radiant spikes are creating the "negative electricity" on the battery (as Bedini says) and becomes so prevalent that no longer the battery is giving the "positive electricity" to the system and so the fan stops. Bedini clearly states in his videos and on the Monopole yahoo forum that you "can not switch the front and back batteries (primary and secondary) to run indefinitely the SSG machine, one must use an inverter when putting the charging battery (secondary) in place of the running battery (primary) because the negative electricity will not work with the SSG.

I think this is happening here because I can replicate this phenomena many times besides being extremely frustating. The same happend on my real first success and now on my new successes.

@gadgetmall,

how does yours system runs? does it ever stops?

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: IceStorm on March 04, 2009, 05:30:02 PM
........
Bedini clearly states in his videos and on the Monopole yahoo forum that you "can not switch the front and back batteries (primary and secondary) to run indefinitely the SSG machine, one must use an inverter when putting the charging battery (secondary) in place of the running battery (primary) because the negative electricity will not work with the SSG.
........

This limitation only apply for the standard SSG , not the trifilar or the "Cap pulser". Your cap is exactly where the secondary battery should be so we can assume the radiant get converted in the cap before going to the primary. Just remember the Cigar box john build, just one 9v NiCd , and ran for 7yrs+. its why i said you should use a 9v for your experiment, you have a realy low discharge rate so the 150mA on that type of battery should'nt be a problem. Even a 5Amp/H battery is not suitable for your experiment, even at 50mA discharge rate your battery can theoricaly run for 1000 hour, so near 42 Day. The main problem is the non-linearity of lead acid battery, the discharge curve is not linear and can go up/down for no reason even with a standard load if the power consumption is realy low, at each plateau the battery seem to not discharge anymore but its not realy that , each batterie have his own discharge curve, take 10 brand new fully charged identical batterie and they all be different in the discharge curve . That put ALOT of incontrolable variable to be able to say if the setup work or not.extremely small battery clean alot of variable.

Best Regards,
IceStorm
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on March 04, 2009, 06:31:29 PM

I am puzzled, I give the fan a spin by hand and wait 5 minutes. Voltage drop 0.01v and fan stops spinning. Voltage goes back to where it was. I give another spin by hand and the same happen, BUT, if I try that a couple more times, without changing anything, then the fan spins good for another 8 hours but now the voltage only drops until the whole process starts again. It finds another bottom voltage plataform (usually the same as before) and goes up and stops.

Fausto.

I have seen this myself. The problem is that even if the battery is heavily pulsed after it stops, the voltage can still eventually come to rest at where it was. As IceStorm says, we need to run the experiment on a very small battery. The battery needs a capacity where the load current represents a reasonable percentage of the battery capacity. If we are drawing 10mA, then this would translate to a capacity of 200mA/hrs at the C20 rate and a small PP3 type 9V battery would fit the bill nicely. If a small 9V NICAD battery does not show the effect, then an SLA under 1A/hr would be my next choice (if available). I agree with IceStorm that a 5A/hr battery is too big, especially if its in good condition, which it really must be to make the charging effect believable.

Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on March 04, 2009, 08:25:09 PM
This limitation only apply for the standard SSG , not the trifilar or the "Cap pulser". Your cap is exactly where the secondary battery should be so we can assume the radiant get converted in the cap before going to the primary. Just remember the Cigar box john build, just one 9v NiCd , and ran for 7yrs+. its why i said you should use a 9v for your experiment, you have a realy low discharge rate so the 150mA on that type of battery should'nt be a problem. Even a 5Amp/H battery is not suitable for your experiment, even at 50mA discharge rate your battery can theoricaly run for 1000 hour, so near 42 Day. The main problem is the non-linearity of lead acid battery, the discharge curve is not linear and can go up/down for no reason even with a standard load if the power consumption is realy low, at each plateau the battery seem to not discharge anymore but its not realy that , each batterie have his own discharge curve, take 10 brand new fully charged identical batterie and they all be different in the discharge curve . That put ALOT of incontrolable variable to be able to say if the setup work or not.extremely small battery clean alot of variable.

Best Regards,
IceStorm

I agree with you partly IceStorm. Yes I will try with much smaller battery, I already bought the 9v NiCd to try out.

My disagreement is with the calculation of how big the battery should be. 42 days that a 5amp/h can run is theoretical but never pratical WITHOUT any voltage drop. I can see voltage dropping for 5ma and also NOT see the voltage drop for the same 5ma depending only on the changes on the configuration. I agree smaller the battery it will be faster to test but not necessarily to see the effect. I can see the voltage dropping with a bad configuration while not dropping at all with a good configuration. The battery must be recharging. May be not enough to pass the initial voltage (although gadetmall has done it).

What I am saying is that you can test this phenomena now with a 100amp/h or 5amp/h battery just fine. It is not about discharging the battery fully to its full 100 hour at 1amp or 10 thousand hours at 1 mili-amp. It is about dropping 0.01v in 1 day or less or not dropping at all in days at 5 ma.

Fausto.

Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on March 04, 2009, 08:59:15 PM

What I am saying is that you can test this phenomena now with a 100amp/h or 5amp/h battery just fine. It is not about discharging the battery fully to its full 100 hour at 1amp or 10 thousand hours at 1 mili-amp. It is about dropping 0.01v in 1 day or less or not dropping at all in days at 5 ma.

Fausto.



I agree when you say that the effect can be seen with bigger batteries and this has been verified by both of us. However, it is important to do the experiment with small batteries simply to see if the effect is observable. It may be that the effect relies on sufficient battery capacity. I do not find it particularly significant that the battery can either hold voltage for long periods of time or even climb in these very low current and high battery capacity conditions. IMO the significance of this experiment is to establish if the charging effect is real and that requires the obvservance of a significant rise of voltage above the 'at rest' voltage. This has not yet been demonstrated to my satisfaction. Further validation of 'real charging' is required over and above this observation in the form of load testing to ensure that battery capacity has not been compromised by the charging effect.

Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on March 04, 2009, 09:45:20 PM
Yes. Let's test with smaller batteries.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Groundloop on March 04, 2009, 09:59:00 PM
@Plengo,

Have you considered the possibility that your fan stops because the total charge
in the battery is going down? If the circuit charge the battery then the fan should speed
up. Then when the current goes up the fan should slow down again. So if there is
a charging effect then the fan should never stop at all.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on March 04, 2009, 10:03:10 PM
@Plengo,

Have you considered the possibility that your fan stops because the total charge
in the battery is going down? If the circuit charge the battery then the fan should speed
up. Then when the current goes up the fan should slow down again. So if there is
a charging effect then the fan should never stop at all.

Groundloop.

Yes I considered that. But why would persisting to run the fan will work and still run for a long period of time. It is just those first 30 minutes after it stops that takes to start it again. It is almost as if it does not want to run at all then it changes its mind and runs.

If it was the charge level of the battery it would not run at all once it stops, but that is not the case and the battery still holds the same voltage as when it was started (even though it could be ghost voltage).

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: IceStorm on March 04, 2009, 10:10:00 PM
I agree with you partly IceStorm. Yes I will try with much smaller battery, I already bought the 9v NiCd to try out.

My disagreement is with the calculation of how big the battery should be. 42 days that a 5amp/h can run is theoretical but never pratical WITHOUT any voltage drop. I can see voltage dropping for 5ma and also NOT see the voltage drop for the same 5ma depending only on the changes on the configuration. I agree smaller the battery it will be faster to test but not necessarily to see the effect. I can see the voltage dropping with a bad configuration while not dropping at all with a good configuration. The battery must be recharging. May be not enough to pass the initial voltage (although gadetmall has done it).

What I am saying is that you can test this phenomena now with a 100amp/h or 5amp/h battery just fine. It is not about discharging the battery fully to its full 100 hour at 1amp or 10 thousand hours at 1 mili-amp. It is about dropping 0.01v in 1 day or less or not dropping at all in days at 5 ma.

Fausto.



Hi Fausto,
                 
                Another thing who can play alot, is to know what type of charge the battery take when you run your setup.I made some experiment long time ago with the full bedini cap setup. What ive found interesting is when i used realy low capacitor , like 0.1uF, the voltage of the charging batterie was climbing realy realy fast , after 3 hour of charging i let the batterie the time to stabilize. 24 Hour later the voltage was 13.4. i found interresting to see a voltage like that because i had drain the battery to 11.5v before recharging it. Ive put a load on that battery to discharge it under the c20 rules and found it droped instantly to 12.3 volt, it ran for about 40 minute untile it reach 11.5v.

This experiment is easly replicable , there nothing special in the setup but it show clearly that a battery can show a voltage who is realy not representative of what is inside the battery, that can be realy misleading. Its like a static charge.

Best Regards,
IceStorm
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on March 05, 2009, 12:11:51 AM
Hi Fausto,
                 
                Another thing who can play alot, is to know what type of charge the battery take when you run your setup.I made some experiment long time ago with the full bedini cap setup. What ive found interesting is when i used realy low capacitor , like 0.1uF, the voltage of the charging batterie was climbing realy realy fast , after 3 hour of charging i let the batterie the time to stabilize. 24 Hour later the voltage was 13.4. i found interresting to see a voltage like that because i had drain the battery to 11.5v before recharging it. Ive put a load on that battery to discharge it under the c20 rules and found it droped instantly to 12.3 volt, it ran for about 40 minute untile it reach 11.5v.

This experiment is easly replicable , there nothing special in the setup but it show clearly that a battery can show a voltage who is realy not representative of what is inside the battery, that can be realy misleading. Its like a static charge.

Best Regards,
IceStorm

This is an interesting effect also seen with direct HV charging from an energiser with a considerable power level. The battery is highly pressured because there is little rest period between pulses which I think has the effect of highly charging the electrolyte which can result in a high terminal voltage. When this pressure is released there is a marked drop back in voltage and this continues under load until what is termed the 'surface charge' sometimes termed 'fluffy charge' is drawn off to leave 'plate charge' or 'deep charge'. Bedini advocates using any surface charge as soon as possible before it naturally dissipates over a period of time as it effectively represents capacity gain if it can be effectively transferred to a load.

By using larger caps the capacitor more effectively buffers the battery from the pulsed high potential pressure resulting in the charge being more efficiently absorbed by the plates as the capacitor transfers a higher current level at a lower voltage. Bedini advocates just a few volts above terminal voltage for best efficiency cap pulsing. The high voltage, high pressure pulsing is I think good for fast conditioning - desulfating but not for efficient charging. The Bedini 1 ohm test is a means to ensure that the coil discharge power level is not too excessive in energy level to cause inneficient charging. A slow and steady increase in voltage with little drop back is the preferred charging method to ensure best conditioning and battery life.

Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on March 05, 2009, 04:11:37 AM
I have a question for my honorable friends:

If I use three 7.2v NiMh in series to run this circuit consuming about 7 to 9ma, how long do you guys expect this to run to be considered above COP of 1 ?

I need three batteries because my circuit is tunned for around 20 volts and I dont want to change it now.

Is it ok with three batteries like that in series or is it too much too?

The batteries are in the picture.

Please, let me know.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: IceStorm on March 05, 2009, 05:12:39 AM
I have a question for my honorable friends:

If I use three 7.2v NiMh in series to run this circuit consuming about 7 to 9ma, how long do you guys expect this to run to be considered above COP of 1 ?

I need three batteries because my circuit is tunned for around 20 volts and I dont want to change it now.

Is it ok with three batteries like that in series or is it too much too?

The batteries are in the picture.

Please, let me know.

Fausto.

Hi Fausto,

               i think its realy good, in a perfect world your setup should run for about 17 hour (with 3 7.2v in series) so let say you are able to make that even better ,if it run for 24 hour without loosing anything that will be realy great, but dont forget one thing and i think its the most important, put a load on it at the end to discharge the battery to know exaclty how many usuable mA you are able to extract after your 24h run test. if it run the fan for 24 hour and 12 hour on a bleeding resistor for the last discharge that will be a fullproof.

Best Regards,
IceStorm
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Goat on March 05, 2009, 05:19:16 AM
@ Fausto

From what I remember written or mentioned somewhere, the NiMh batteries were NOT recommended in the bedini circuits.

I personally have tried them in a shielded cage and they didn't blow up, but then I didn't get OU with the circuit I was playing with at the time  ;D

That's my 2 cents.

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on March 05, 2009, 09:11:53 AM
I have had no problems charging Nicad's or NiMh batteries with Bedini energisers but as to whether they fully benefit from Bedini charging in terms of capacity gain through the conversion of negative energy, I have no idea. To establish the absence of the charging effect using other types of battery would IMO be as important as observing it because it narrows down the search for the cause of the effect.

Hoppy

Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on March 06, 2009, 12:13:30 AM
I started my new series of tests for the 9v NiCd batteries.

@Gadgetmall,

can you, please, post a picture of your fan with magnet positioned so that I can have a better idea of how you did it? If not, look at the pictures and tell me which one is closer to your setup you think.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on March 06, 2009, 09:47:53 PM
So far my 9v NiCd tests are an utterly failure.

I have not been able to replicate my own replication using those small batteries neither with two 5amp/h SLAs.

 :(

I guess science is winning!

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 07, 2009, 03:24:07 AM
@ Fausto:

"I guess science is winning!"

Not for long.

Bill
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on March 07, 2009, 08:08:20 AM
So far my 9v NiCd tests are an utterly failure.

I have not been able to replicate my own replication using those small batteries neither with two 5amp/h SLAs.

 :(

I guess science is winning!

Fausto.

It's beginning to look like the battery capacity or condition is responsible for the charging effect. We know that a heavily loaded battery can show a rise in terminal voltage over quite a considerable period of time. This may also be the case using minimal loading on some batteries at varying rates and levels depending on capacity and condition of the battery.

Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: hoptoad on March 07, 2009, 08:31:17 AM
I guess science is winning!
Fausto.
The word science is derived from latin (scientia) and basically means "to observe" or "to know".

You never lose anything by observing, but there is always knowledge to gain. Sometimes that knowledge will be in agreeance with "established" observation and sometimes it wont. When it doesn't match "established" observation, then you might challenge the validity of established observation, or humbly challenge your own. The trouble is, it's not usually our observation that leads us astray, it is our interpretations of what we observe.

I've had to challenge my own interpretations many times! ..... LOL  :P

Cheers


Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on March 07, 2009, 06:35:25 PM
Hi experimenters . i have been in the hospital very sick . I am home now still sick . I see where you guys are making My Self running a sham by running it on NON Lead acid. It wont work . So keep on disproving it by using the wrong battery . I do Understand you must prove it to yourselves and if this is how your going to do so it then so be it .. Bedini said Overunity is in wet Cell Lead Acid Batterys . Period., .. Not nicads sla ni mh or what ever. Forget  it cause you guys are now on you own being you have constructed something i dont have and You were so Close .
Fausto i don't have mu metal hanging off my fan . Its half of a hard drive magnet not over laping the center a t all . no silver metal on My Magnet . . I have overunity . I use a Motorcycle battery . Plain and simple . you guys saw it run for weeks and no drop ,what  do you change it when you had it so close ?? No it needs the Chemical reactions as per Bedini' Findings in his book.so guys your on you own but i'm not gone . I just want to watch where this ends up . You might make it work with nicads . I can run it with Sla but the are lead acid also . Keep testing it and if something don't work right take a step backwards where it was ... take care.
Albert
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on March 07, 2009, 06:54:25 PM
It's beginning to look like the battery capacity or condition is responsible for the charging effect. We know that a heavily loaded battery can show a rise in terminal voltage over quite a considerable period of time. This may also be the case using minimal loading on some batteries at varying rates and levels depending on capacity and condition of the battery.

Hoppy

I do see a fluctuation in voltage on the source battery using the 9v NiCd. It goes up and down in a very well defined rhythm, so for the case of this particular tests I can atest that what I recored on video "could" be the same phenomena but not necessarily.  I say that because the signal on the scope also shows that rhythm like waves over waves (look at the picture). The same DOES NOT happened when I used a wet cell. I dont have those waves on a wet cell at all.

The beauty of using small 9v NiCd is that I can hell test this in so many configurations that it is even difficult for me to track all. I kind of have to choose one path and record only that. There are so many weird things happening that I dont know where to start.

I have not given up yet.

Fausto
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on March 07, 2009, 06:58:13 PM
Hi experimenters . i have been in the hospital very sick . I am home now still sick . I see where you guys are making My Self running a sham by running it wil NON wet Cells. It wont work . So keep on disproving it by using the wrong battery . Bedini said Overunity is in wet Cell Lead Acid Batterys . Period., .. Not nicads sla ni mh or what ever. Frrget it cause you guys are now on you own being you have constructed something i don;t have .
Fausto i dont have mu metal hanging off my fan . Its half of a hard drive magnet not over laping the center a t all . no silver metal on My Magnet . . I have overunity . I use a Motorcycle battery . Plain and simple . you guys saw it run for weeks and no drop ,what  do you change it when you had it so close ?? No it needs the Chemical reactions as per Bedini' Findings in his book.so guys your on you own . take care.
Albert

Thanks Albert. It is good to test against small batteries even if we think it will not work, just to satisfy our curiosity and others.

I just got a small wet 12v lead acid motorcycle battery at about 20 amp/h from a friend. It is dead (excellent). I am right now reconditioning using a Bedini 6 coils SSG that I built.

I can see totally different waves patterns with the wet cell and the NiCd. It definitely could be the chemicals in the wet cell that makes the miracle just like Bedini said.

Dont leave us my friend. I still need you to help me here.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 08, 2009, 12:40:52 AM
Al:

Sorry to hear you were sick, I hope all is better now.  We all wondered what happened to you on the JT topic, folks were getting concerned.

I hope you continue with this device here as my five 48 volt fans have arrived and I am sure I will need your help, if you want to.  I would love to replicate this device if possible.

Take care and I hope you are well again.

Bill
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: IceStorm on March 08, 2009, 02:12:03 AM
Hi experimenters . i have been in the hospital very sick . I am home now still sick . I see where you guys are making My Self running a sham by running it wil NON wet Cells. It wont work . So keep on disproving it by using the wrong battery . Bedini said Overunity is in wet Cell Lead Acid Batterys . Period., .. Not nicads sla ni mh or what ever. Frrget it cause you guys are now on you own being you have constructed something i don;t have .
Fausto i dont have mu metal hanging off my fan . Its half of a hard drive magnet not over laping the center a t all . no silver metal on My Magnet . . I have overunity . I use a Motorcycle battery . Plain and simple . you guys saw it run for weeks and no drop ,what  do you change it when you had it so close ?? No it needs the Chemical reactions as per Bedini' Findings in his book.so guys your on you own . take care.
Albert

Hi Gadgetmall,

Dont forget the JB Cigar box, ran on 9v NiCd for more than 7 years non stop so the chemistry is not the only reactive in the process. Look at EFTV , JB show clearly in many clip that he used SLA as well as wet cell. JB show a process with the SSG , not the final product, just the principle.

Best Regards,
IceStorm
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on March 08, 2009, 04:37:12 AM
Hi Gadgetmall,

Dont forget the JB Cigar box, ran on 9v NiCd for more than 7 years non stop so the chemistry is not the only reactive in the process. Look at EFTV , JB show clearly in many clip that he used SLA as well as wet cell. JB show a process with the SSG , not the final product, just the principle.

Best Regards,
IceStorm
Yes i understand  why they must exhaust all logical answers first . There was mention of the little box in his book it was a   SS tesla switch . not a bedini and it used several nicads(4x1.2volt) that eventually went dead after 6 months(a liitle shy from 7 years) :)  but during the time it ran an electric motor.and if was something that was to be replicated it was probably the tesla switch he gave the schematics for . . It only needs the batterys to start the effect recycling .. tesla switch - Bedini - two separate beast but they both reley on the same thing for energy extraction . the BEMF
Best regards
Al 
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 08, 2009, 11:21:46 AM
I read that the original Bedini SSG motor was operated by one 9 volt battery and ran for 2 weeks continuously  This was during the science fair experiment with the little school girl.  Now, I don't know if the 9 volt was a rechargeable or lead acid.  I am using 2 nicads 9 volts on my Bedini replication and it seems to work so far.  If I could afford 2 acid cell 12 volt bats I would have used them.

Bill
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on March 08, 2009, 11:43:48 AM
Hi Gadgetmall,

Dont forget the JB Cigar box, ran on 9v NiCd for more than 7 years non stop so the chemistry is not the only reactive in the process. Look at EFTV , JB show clearly in many clip that he used SLA as well as wet cell. JB show a process with the SSG , not the final product, just the principle.

Best Regards,
IceStorm


I have observed the charging effect using small SLA's and John Bedini has only ever said that wet cell batteries show the effects of radiant charging better than SLA's. The question that remains unanswered for me is can this charging take a battery above its 'at rest' voltage to a fully charged state?  I have not yet seen this and until I do I will not be convinced that this is real charging.

Gadget need not be concerned that others may not believe his claim because he is unable to convince anyone by video anymore than anyboby else can with their claims. It is case of seeing first hand is believing. The video helps others to replicate an experiment and thats all. For instance Gadget says his setup runs OU. He has based this conclusion on his interpretation of his data set based on his knowledge, understanding and beliefs. Others observing the very same thing may reach a different conclusion based on their knowledge, understanding  and beliefs. Both conclusions are valid until an analysis based on accepted scientific principles is carried out and a consensus reached amongst those deemed qualified to do this. This is dilemna Bedini faces. He can believe what he wishes and make theories and claims accordingly but until the 'scientific establishment' sit up and take notice and invest time and money in attempting to validate his claims, they remain scientifically unproven.
 
Hoppy
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 08, 2009, 12:49:32 PM
@ Hoppy:

You raise a valid point here but,...there is always a but, I know Gadgetmall (Al) and if he says his device does such and such, I believe him.  I am also going to try to replicate it, not to see if it is true, just to see it working after I build it.  If he was just some guy off the street that said this, then I would agree with you, but he isn't.  I really don't expect "science" to accept anytime soon Gadget's device, Earth Batteries, Joule Thief circuits, Bedini motors, etc.  These things are out there and I have seen them and worked with them.  They work.  To anyone that has any doubts I say, replicate.  But, when you replicate, do NOT swap transistors, capacitors, wire sizes, different coils, etc.  Do not change anything, which to me is the definition of replication, and having changed the design then say it does not work.  No, this only means YOUR changes to the design do not work, not the original design.

Bill
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Hoppy on March 08, 2009, 01:37:34 PM
@ Bill

You too raise a valid point about replication. Exact replication is the ideal but very difficult to achieve in terms of exactly replicating the type and most importantly condition of Gadget's battery, plus wiring sizes and interconnections and method and procedure for data collection.

I agree with you that the devices you list actually work. Like you, I have built and tested them. Bedini energisers do IMO charge batteries and improve their condition. Earth batteries do produce useable amounts of energy and JT's can light Flouro's, LED's and charge batteries. However, I have not seen OU / self-running from any system I have built using these devices and this is probably simply because I interpret the data differently to others that do claim OU from their setups.

I have no doubt that Gadget is sincere in his claim and I hope that he can develop his devices to a practical level that helps mankind.

Hoppy

Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 08, 2009, 01:53:15 PM
@ Hoppy:

Thank you for your sincere and intelligent reply.  Actually, as I have stated on OUdot com many times, I don't really believe in OU.  Nature loves equilibrium and unity so, I think we have to be happy with that.  The fact that someone can run something at X input and get 2 X out of it just tells me that we don't really know where the other input is coming from, but, it is coming from somewhere.  This is just my opinion.

The main problem I see with actual replication on this, and other, sites is....lack of finances.  Heck, I just got another computer out of the dumpster at my apartment complex and I know there are things I can use out of it. (and I will)  Take the Joule thief topic for example.  I started that topic and have posted 19 videos on youtube on my work there.  I too have had folks that said....well I did not have the 3904 transistor so I used something else, and I did not have a ferrite toroid so I used something else, and I did not have the 1k resistor so I used a 2k resistor instead and.....your device does not work at all!!!!

This can be very frustrating to say the least.  And yes, wire size, transistors, capacitors, and all other components are all variables on this stuff.  My way of replicating is to build it exactly like someone else did and then....tweak a little here and there and hopefully get better results. (sometimes not)

Anyway, I can tell you and I are both on the same wavelength here so I will shut up now.  Thanks again for your very respectful and intelligent response to my post.

Bill
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Groundloop on March 08, 2009, 03:00:13 PM
Hi,

Attached is my newest circuit drawing for my two coil pulse motor/charger.

I use one FGS 12V 7A GEL (drained) battery as a input. Battery voltage is 9,24V.
On the output I have a similar battery. This was also drained (10,5v) but has climbed
to 11,25 volt during the last couple of hours. My design goal was to try to mix some DC
current through the coil with the AC current in the coils. I have tried to measure
both the input current and the output current. My moving Iron meter shows no sign of input
current. (Although there must be some small current flowing.) The moving Iron meter shows
a very very very little output current. I do not know how big it is but I do know it is bigger
than the input current because the needle has moved a tiny bit upwards! You can draw
your own conclusions since you already know the output voltage to be bigger than the input voltage.
I'm NOT claiming any o/u yet because there is difficulties doing an accurate measurements when
the currents are very low.

Groundloop. 
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Groundloop on March 08, 2009, 05:48:25 PM
Hi,

Here is my solid state variant. One battery connected.
If the battery is charging then o/u else not.

I can see the circuit is oscillating by a dim light in the Neon bulb.

Battery start voltage: 10,32V

Circuit drops the battery voltage to 10,28 when first connected.
Then battery gains 0,01 voltage approximately each 1/2 hour. (So far.)
Battery has gained voltage to 10,30 after 1 hour of running.

I will keep this circuit running and report back in some hours.

[EDIT-1] Circuit has been running for two hours now. Neon bulb still glowing dim. Battery voltage 10,32 Volt.
[EDIT-2] Circuit has been running for three hours now. Neon bulb still glowing dim. Battery voltage 10,32 Volt.
             Seems that the voltage increase is leveling out now. No gain in one hour.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: robbie47 on March 08, 2009, 08:15:09 PM
@groundloop:
There is something about this circuit I don't understand.
Back EMF is caused by switching off the transistor after being on.
That causes the bottom of L2 to have high voltage.
That would mean current is pushed into the minus pole of the battery.
Which means discharging the battery after already being discharged while the transistor is switched on.
What is wrong with this analysis?

Note: assuming the red pole of the battery is the + pole
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Groundloop on March 08, 2009, 08:48:38 PM
Hi robbie47,

I'm not sure I understand this circuit myself. :-)

The circuit IS oscillating. I can see that a high voltage is created that light the small 65
volt Neon bulb. The coils is connected so that when the transistor is conducting current
through L2 then the magnetic field hits L1 and brings the base low, thus shutting off the
transistor. Then the L1 flips around and triggering the transistor again. The diode chain will
drop the voltage input on the collector by approx. 5,4 volt. That way the single diode is free
to conduct current to the battery. This will happen because the current always goes the
path of low resistance. The circuit has back emf voltages of approx. 65 volt. Because of
the single diode the L2 coil can only push a charge into the battery by the negative terminal, I think?

If there is someone out there that have another explanation, please correct me. All I know is that
the oscillator is running and the battery has gained voltage. It MAY just be that the voltage pulses
eliminates sulfur buildup on the battery lead plates, thus we see a gain in voltage.

Close to 4 hours run and the battery voltage is: 10,33

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: robbie47 on March 08, 2009, 08:57:42 PM
@Groundloop:
Great results!
If the neon is lighting up, this means the emitter of the transistor is at high volts (> 65 Volts) at some time in the oscillation.
Are you sure you have drawn the coils correctly in the above circuit?
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Groundloop on March 08, 2009, 09:04:23 PM
@robbie47,

Yes, the coils is connected as shown in the circuit. The solid state is the same as my motor. I have
just stopped the rotor. See earlier post on how the motor looks like. The rotor is from a computer fan.
I have removed the fan blades, the electronic and the rubber magnet inside the fan hub. I have NOT
removed the iron ring inside the fan hub. Then I epoxy on two Neo magnets.

Edit-1 Added some images. You can see the neon bulb glowing. Also remark that both pins in the
          neon bulb is glowing. This means that the voltage over the bulb is AC.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: robbie47 on March 08, 2009, 09:16:28 PM
@groundloop:
OK, thanks for your confirmation and the pictures!!.
I really want to replicate this if your battery continues to charge.

[deleted].
[Edit] From the pictures I understand that you are using the bottom coils, which is a bifilor wounded one?

Any idea what the oscillation frequency is of this setup?
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Groundloop on March 08, 2009, 09:28:21 PM
@robbie47,

Yes, it seems that the iron metal ring inside the plastic hub is the magnetic link between the coils.

My coil are wound onto two plastic bobbins measuring 47mm diameter, 18mm thick, 15mm center
hole. The spools are approx. 80% full. I did use 0,25mm enameled copper wire. The DC Ohm on
each coil is approx. 48 Ohm. The distance between the coils is 52mm. Neo magnets is grade 35
and are round 14mm diameter and 8mm thick. One magnet has North out the other South out.
Rotor and coils are epoxy glued to a plastic box. The magnets are epoxy glued to the rotor.

Both coil is SINGLE wound. Two separate wound coils.

My frequency counter says 48,9 kHz.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: robbie47 on March 08, 2009, 09:48:39 PM
@groundloop:
Thanks for correcting me on the coils and sharing all the details!

Your ventilator components wonders me.
I am used to having a magnetic ring inside the 12V ventilators I am using.
The cores of the 4 coils inside are independent and isolated from each other.
You must have a different ventilator type there, since you talked about rubbery magnets inside that you removed.
Does that mean the coils inside this ventilator unit are all mounted on the metal ring?
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Groundloop on March 08, 2009, 09:58:43 PM
@robbie47,

No. I only use the fan rotor. I have removed ALL coils and pcb inside the fan. Then I cut the
four legs to the fan housing. I cut off all the fan blades and use a little sand paper to get
rid of the fans remains. I take out the circular rubber magnet inside the hub but leave the
iron ring because it is difficult to remove the iron ring without damaging the hub. Then I glue
two magnets on the outside of the hub. Now I have a two ball bearing rotor that spins
very freely. The only coils is the one you see glued to the plastic box. The fan was a 80mmx80mm
computer fan.

Edit-1 Added a scope shot of the oscillator. (Use hand held camera so quality is not very good.)

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: robbie47 on March 08, 2009, 10:19:23 PM
@groundloop,
Thanks again for the details of the rotor.
So, basically the rotor is not moving in your present setup?
What is the position of the neo's towards the coils you use? Are they facing the coils or 90 degrees rotated from the coil entries?
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Groundloop on March 08, 2009, 10:27:28 PM
@robbie47,

No the rotor is stopped by hand. The rotor align itself North / South because of the low friction in the bearings.
The oscillation starts by itself when I flip the rotor a couple of times. This to trigger the L1 coil. Then I stop the rotor.
Then I adjust the variable resistor to highest value without the oscillator stopping to run. The oscillator will run when
adjusted so 10K is in series with the base of the transistor. I maybe fit an extra resistor later on.

The battery voltage is now: 10,34

I will run this circuit through the night to see what the voltage is in approx. 8 hours from now.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: robbie47 on March 08, 2009, 10:47:23 PM
@groundloop,
The oscilloscoop pictures helps a lot understanding the circuit.
It seems you measured it with the probe AC coupled?
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Groundloop on March 08, 2009, 11:33:01 PM
@robbie47,

Yes, AC.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Groundloop on March 09, 2009, 06:13:37 AM
Hi,

The circuit has run all night and the battery voltage has not gained, it is still 10,34 volt.

The neon bulb is still glowing dim, indicating that the circuit runs. My best estimate
is that this circuit uses very little current from the battery and that the high voltage
spikes do remove sulfate from the battery lead plates. I will let the circuit run for 10
more hours. Then I will test the circuit on a small 120mA 9 volt NiCad battery.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: AbbaRue on March 09, 2009, 06:55:28 AM
I'm a little puzzled.
What purpose is there for using multiple diodes in series?
All I can think of is the voltage drop they produce is needed for some purpose. 
Unless they are functioning as a diode detector picking up radio waves from the atmosphere.
I found that the more diodes you connect in series as a detector the higher the voltage you get to a maximum point.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Groundloop on March 09, 2009, 07:41:16 AM
@AbbaRue,

The purpose is to get a lower voltage on the transistor collector. Another purpose is to adjust the amount
of back feeding to battery vs sourcing from battery. If I connect the battery higher up on the diode chain
then I get higher voltage on the circuit but less charge back from the circuit. Chaining diodes is like using
a zener.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: robbie47 on March 09, 2009, 12:00:51 PM
Deleted
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Groundloop on March 09, 2009, 01:59:39 PM
@robbie47,

I saw your drawing before you deleted it. You probably realized that the battery must be in parallel with the coil
to get charged. In my emitter following circuit I have managed to get the polarity right so that the battery is in
parallel (not counting the diodes) with both the coil and the circuit. That way the sharp negative voltage pulse
in the coil can enter the minus terminal of the battery and charge the battery between the power (timing) pulses
to the transistor. So we get one power pulse, one charging pulse, one power pulse etc. It is NOT possible to
both charge and discharge a battery at the same time. It IS possible to first extract a power pulse and then
insert a charging pulse when they are separated in time. This is one goal with my circuit. The other goal was
to mix a DC component with a AC component inside the coil to convert apparent power to real power. We know
that in a LC circuit the voltage and current is 90 degrees out of faze. Thus the real power in null when the voltage
or the current is at maximum. What happens when a DC current is flowing out of faze with the AC voltage?

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: robbie47 on March 09, 2009, 02:58:59 PM
@groundloop,
Sorry about the confusion with my alternative drawing.
Indeed I realized that my suggested circuit would not work, since back EMF would be diverted into the coils other end as well.
I understand your motives on your circuit, however I am still not happy with the negative pulse on the emitter, because that will not cause the battery to charge.

And, indeed as you indicated, charging and discharging will not work at the same time, although I still think that it will always be sequential when using switched coils:
First you charge the coil with current (discharging the battery).
Then switch off charging the coil (and thus stopping the discharging of the battery). Switching off coil charging will always cause high voltage at that very moment if current can not continue to flow ( this is the back EMF). This high voltage can drive charging the battery again.
But indeed, voltage and current are out of phase. Good point. I have no answer to your question however.....

I'll keep trying to find new suggestions for your circuit. It is an intriguing one  ;)

Just for the other forum readers, I attached the erroneous circuit that I planned to suggest but deleted earlier. Once more: it will not work as intended, although it will give a positive back EMF pulse on the collector of the transistor.

Maybe I will give it a try, because back EMF is a very steep pulse that will not be returning current to the same coil as easy as charging the battery (this is actually a capacitor)
Steep pulses contain much high frequency components (according to Fourier).
Coil impedance is high for high frequencies (Z = j * 2 * pi  * f * L),
while battery impedance will be low for high frequencies (Z = 1/ (j * 2 *pi * f * C)), where L = coil value in Henry and C = capacity in Farad)

Would be good to know how big the capacity value of such a lead acid batter is. I would not be surprised if it is a few Farads
Your coils will probably have values in the range of micro Henry's. So, the question is how big would the impedance of the coil be in relation to the impedance of the battery in case of a sharp back EMF pulse period.

Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Groundloop on March 09, 2009, 04:48:59 PM
@robbie47,

>>I understand your motives on your circuit, however I am still not happy with the >>negative pulse on the emitter, because that will not cause the battery to charge.

I agree with you. There should be no charging by the negative pulse but since
this is an oscillator the positive going pulse will charge. This can be seen by
the scope image. Now since we allow the negative to freely swing down to -65
volt or so, then we must assume that the positive pulse will do the same.
But we use a diode to the battery so half of the source dipole is back in the battery.

Now if we could use a little of the negative pulse to charge then maybe we can
get this circuit go o/u?

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: robbie47 on March 09, 2009, 06:58:43 PM
@groundloop:
Quote
Now if we could use a little of the negative pulse to charge then maybe we can
get this circuit go o/u?

I only can think of one way at this moment: using a second battery.
But that would be off topic  :-\ and back to real Bedini setups.

The strength of your setup is in the rotor however to my opinion. It acts as a magnetic bridge.
Something is happening there that is not quite understood, at least not by me.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: AbbaRue on March 09, 2009, 09:50:06 PM
@Groundloop
Thanks for the reply. So my first assumption was correct.
The diodes in series lower the voltage draw from the battery.

I think I understand how a Bedini motor functions. 
About a year ago I was contemplating the following concept: (I will condense it as much as possible to get the point across)
If you energize an air core coil near a magnet with the proper polarity, the coil will attract the magnet.
If the magnet is allowed to move, as it moves towards the coil it's magnetic field will cross the windings of the coil.
As the coil cuts the magnets lines of force a current is induced in the coil.
The closer the magnet gets to the coil the greater the current flow that is induced. (A simple generator)
Also the closer the magnet and coil get the greater the magnetic attraction between them.(Acceleration takes place)
So the two forces work together and an increase in energy should be the result.
Then if you cut power at the right moment a back emf is produced which will repel the magnet away from the coil.
All that is needed for this to work is a means of allowing the magnet to move to and from the coil freely.
This condition is met by placing the magnet on a rotating disk.  Thus the Bedini motor is born.

Of coarse you don't need an air core coil for this to work, I just mentioned it to make the point that the magnet is
attracted only by the coils magnetic field and not by the iron core.

Addendum:
The second winding on the core causes a current to flow to the base of the transistor as the magnet approaches the  coil. (turning it on)
And then once the magnet passes it's closest point to the coil and starts moving away this causes the current to flow
in the opposite direction which turns the transistor off and causes it to switch to the opposite direction as well.
So in theory the second winding that goes to the transistor base shouldn't need to be as many windings.
Only enough windings to switch the transistor. 
But that second winding works best if it is placed on the same core so it switches exactly at the closest point of the magnet and coil.
If is is wound separately then fine tuning would be needed to get the timing right.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Groundloop on March 10, 2009, 04:39:37 AM
Hi,

I have run a test with the motor (rotor stopped) in solid state mode with
a 9 volt 160mA Nicad battery. The start voltage on the small battery
was 7,50 volt. Now, 5 hours later, the battery has drained down to 6,05 volt.
This confirms that the circuit itself is under unity. The voltage gain I noticed
when using a lead acid battery is probably due to the battery going through
a process of eliminating sulphur buildup on the battery plates.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: robbie47 on March 10, 2009, 09:18:54 AM
@groundloop,
Thanks for sharing that with us.
You might be right about the lead acid battery and its actual state.
Any plans for next steps?

I studied you circuit once more. One thing that strikes me is that once the transistor is switched on, either the 9 diodes or the transistor will consume something like 80 mA * 6.3 volts = 0.504 Watts, which is quite much.
I say either the transistor because if you can switch it on without having the collector current saturated. The collector - emitter voltage can be about 6 volts, so in that case you actually don't need the 9 diodes. In that case the resistor to the base of the transistor needs to be fairly high and the collector current would be less than 80 mA.

Did you run the circuit without the 9 diodes, or would that consume to much power in the coil?
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Groundloop on March 10, 2009, 10:23:41 AM
@robbie47,

Your math must be wrong?

The circuit uses less than 10mA at 10 volt without the diodes running as a motor at high speed,
and less than 1mA at 10 volt without the diodes when running in solid state. Remember that
I ran the circuit in solid state (stopped rotor) from a drained 9 volt (160mA) battery. The start
voltage was 7,50 volt, and 5 hours later, the battery was drained down to 6,05 volt. A fully loaded
battery of that type should hold (8,4 V * 0,16) 1,34 Watt/h.

>>Any plans for next steps?

Yes. I will make two new single air core coils for a solid state oscillator. (No rotor or metal objects).
Then I will put the coils vertically with a distance between coils as per. Helmholtz.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: robbie47 on March 10, 2009, 11:43:30 AM
@groundloop,
Sorry, I did not express myself sufficient careful.
The power consumption that I calculated is only occurring at the moments the transistor is switched on.
To get the average power consumption we have to divide it with the duty cycle factor.
We should be able to derive that from your oscilloscoop picture.

Remark on the 9 V battery: you meant 1.34 W/hour of course  ;)
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Groundloop on March 10, 2009, 02:51:11 PM
Hi,

Here is my Helmholtz Coils Oscillator battery charger.

Adjusted, the circuit uses 0,1 amp.at 12,00 volt from the lab supply.

I have two 12 volt 7 Amp. GEL batteries in parallel on the output.
Both batteries is charging well. Started out as 10,5 volt but has gained voltage up to 11,24 volt
in half an hour charging. The coils and transistor runs very cool. No heating in the circuit.

Now it is exciting to see how long it takes to fully charge both batteries.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: AbbaRue on March 10, 2009, 04:01:43 PM
I used to make my own sinkers out of lead. 
It is easy to melt with a propane torch, just use an old sardine can.
Then once you have melted the lead, pour it onto a flat surface to make thin sheets of it.
Then the sheets can be cut into small square lead plates.
Sulphuric acid is sold in hardware stores as drain cleaner.
Take the lead plates and seperate them with some fiberglass cloth and add water and acid.
That is how you can make your own small lead acid batteries.
This would prove the validity of the battery being charged.
A large lead acid battery holds so much charge that it makes it difficult to prove it is being charged.
So you need a very small amp hour battery.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on March 10, 2009, 04:42:21 PM
Hi,

Here is my Helmholtz Coils Oscillator battery charger.

Adjusted, the circuit uses 0,1 amp.at 12,00 volt from the lab supply.

I have two 12 volt 7 Amp. GEL batteries in parallel on the output.
Both batteries is charging well. Started out as 10,5 volt but has gained voltage up to 11,24 volt
in half an hour charging. The coils and transistor runs very cool. No heating in the circuit.

Now it is exciting to see how long it takes to fully charge both batteries.

Groundloop.

Hey Groundloop would you be able to describe how can I build that coil myself?

And do you mean that the battery that runs is the same that charges, correct?

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Groundloop on March 10, 2009, 04:47:39 PM
@AbbaRue,

Thank you for explaining how to build lead acid batteries.

One question, where do you get the lead dioxide (PbO2) to put on
the lead plates?

I do not agree that 7 amp batteries is to big to see if a circuit is o/u or not.
If a circuit puts out more than it receives then a depleted battery will gain
voltage. If not there is no o/u. I always try to design my test circuits to use
one battery just for that reason.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Groundloop on March 10, 2009, 04:55:13 PM
Fausto,

No, on this circuit I charge two paralleled batteries from the circuit output.
The input power is from my lab supply. I like to test the circuit before I
start modifying the circuit for closed loop operation. I will try to loop the
output from the circuit later on.

Making the coils is easy, find a round item (a jar or bottle) and wind the copper
wire around that item. Slide off the coil and tape it all the way round. I used
a glass jar with a diameter of 84mm. I used 0,35mm enameled copper wire
and 200 turns.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: AbbaRue on March 10, 2009, 11:46:16 PM
When you connect the homemade battery to a power supply it will develop the PbO2.
I once bought a new motorcycle battery from Canadian Tire and it was on the shelf without acid in it.
The case was transparent and you could see the plates inside.  All of them were just lead, no PbO2 plates.
They told me I had to come back the next day to pick up the battery because they had to add the acid and
get the battery conditioned to the right polarity by charging it over night.   
What ever polarity you give the homemade battery with the first charge that will remain it's polarity.
If you take an almost completely dead lead acid battery and connect it up in reverse to a power supply
you can change the polarity of the battery.

What I meant about it being difficult to see if large battery is charging is that it takes a long time to see results.
A very small amp hour battery will charge and discharge within minutes instead of hours. 
If this bedini fan motor can run off a very low amp hour battery for hours without a change in voltage like some reported,
that in itself would be significant.

Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Groundloop on March 13, 2009, 11:21:55 PM
Hi,

I guess that nobody is even remotely interested, but here is my newest build.

The rotor is inside the coils and runs very well indeed. The coils is approx. 50 Ohm (DC)
and is wound around a plastic tube. Each coil is 500 turns 0,35mm enameled copper wire.

EDIT-1 I have measured the input usage. I'm not able to see how much current this motor use.
           My best estimate is that the current usage is less than 5mA at 9,27 Volt.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on March 14, 2009, 03:16:49 AM
That is pretty cool Groundloop. Sounds like we are almost like a Newman's motor.

What was the results of your previous setup with the Helmholtz coils that would later be a self-runner test? Any good results?

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 14, 2009, 07:57:17 AM
@ Groundloop:

Are those magnets facing out North as in the Bedini?  does/would it make any difference in your set-up?  Nice build, very neat.

Bill
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Groundloop on March 14, 2009, 09:59:09 AM
Fausto,

Thanks.

I did test the Helmholtz coils but the current usage was high. I could not find any o/u.
The "power" coil also did get very warm when using the circuit as a battery charger.

So I just removed the coils and made the new coil onto a plastic tube. This new
setup is indeed almost like a Newman's motor and it runs very well on small input usage.
I think if you really want to make Newman's motor then why use the axle through the coils
when you can put the rotor onto a ball bearing system inside the coils instead.

@Pirate88179,

Thanks.

No. The magnets is NS, one magnet North out and the other South out. I haven't tried a rotor with the same
magnet polarity so I can't say if that works or not, but I assume it will. One has to reverse the trigger coil
connection when doing that, I guess.

Last night I made a pickup coil. I then tested the coil on the motor. The coil did work but slowed the motor.
I then removed the rotor and ran the circuit in solid state mode. I tested the pickup coil inside the circuit
coil. I got 14 volt out of the pickup coil (input to circuit was 9 volt) and a secondary battery did start to charge.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on March 15, 2009, 02:09:22 AM
Hi,

I guess that nobody is even remotely interested, but here is my newest build.

The rotor is inside the coils and runs very well indeed. The coils is approx. 50 Ohm (DC)
and is wound around a plastic tube. Each coil is 500 turns 0,35mm enameled copper wire.

EDIT-1 I have measured the input usage. I'm not able to see how much current this motor use.
           My best estimate is that the current usage is less than 5mA at 9,27 Volt.

Groundloop.
Hi . I find your Gadget is VERY Interesting and your Craftsmanship is awesome to say the least .please Keep up the Great Work . You Current draw is right along the lines of a 48 volt fan Coil . I think this Circuit needs a little Tweaking to make her run at unity .  Thanks you for Posting its a nice Machine . Do you realize that those good desulfanators like the solargizer are 175.00 us .and Bedinies are 1100.00 +  and i know because i bought several years ago(Solargizers)  . they work ok for keeping a battery fresh  but not as good as a homemade one ..
Best Regards
Al
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Groundloop on March 15, 2009, 02:34:38 AM
@gadgetmall,

Thank you for the nice words.

Yes, I'm planning to try out your serial capacitor method and see if I can get this circuit
to run at unity or at close to unity as possible. I already have tested the pick up coil
and the coil can easily put out 14 - 15 volt when the circuit runs solid state. (Without
a rotor installed.) Another test will be using a small 1,5 volt motor as a generator inside
the coils. The generator will have two Neos on the axle. Will be back soon with a report
on how that works out.

Thanks,
Groundloop.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Groundloop on March 15, 2009, 02:33:16 PM
Hi,

I mounted a couple of NEOs onto a small electric motor and put the motor inside the coil.
The circuit coil was able to run the motor at relative high speed but I did not get any
voltage out of the motor. The next test was to apply a voltage to the motor from the
same battery as the coil circuit was connected to. The rpm of the motor did go higher
than just from the battery due to the fact that the coils also did spin the rotor magnets.
I did notice a couple of tuning point on the 10K variable resistor where the current
usage was lower. All in all the circuit did use way too much current from the battery.
I think this test shows that it is possible to make a NEO rotor that drives a generator
inside the coil. Maybe a small Muller generator is the way to go here?

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on March 16, 2009, 02:39:02 AM
I have been testing my "sucessfull" setup with a small 12v wet cell lead acid 20 amp/h not conditioned to radiant energy and my results are miserable.

It only looses energy unlike when I used a conditioned battery. I can with certainty tell you that a conditioned battery makes a difference from night to day.

I am not even able to maintain the voltage as I did previously.

My next step will be to condition this battery with about 20 charge and discharges using my Bedini SSG and try the whole test again.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on March 23, 2009, 05:06:33 PM
I am on the 5 charge cycle of creating a "reconditioned" battery for the continuation of this experiment. It takes lots of time.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 23, 2009, 05:29:19 PM
@ Plengo:

Now that I have my Bedini replication up and running, when I get time I will take apart one of my  48 volts fans and try to replicate this.  On my Bedini, (using two 12 volt motorcycle batteries) it ran what seemed like forever on the run battery, which, as suggested by Gadgetmall, I did not charge when I bought them, I just put it to work after the electrolyte was added.  I ran it until the run battery got down to 11.4 volts and my charge battery was up to 13.8.  I just switched the batteries last night and am running it again.

Best of luck to you on this replication and on your experiments.  I look forward to hearing of your results.

Bill
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on March 28, 2009, 09:02:59 PM
I am on cycle 8 of charging and discharging my battery (making it conditioned).

Oh boy, takes forever to do that!

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 29, 2009, 05:21:07 AM
@ Plengo:

I am on cycle 3 with my new Bedini and I know what you mean.  It seems to run for days.....


Bill
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on March 29, 2009, 05:41:29 AM
Good to have you doing the same. It kind of makes me feel not so lonely :)

What don't we do for science!??  I am even suspicious that my Bedini SSG is creating overunity during this charge and discharge (pun intended) :)

Fausto.




Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on April 02, 2009, 08:33:59 PM
I am cycle 12 now. My goal is 20 cycles than I will restest the whole thing.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Solan on April 16, 2009, 03:49:11 AM
Hey guys this is the first time I've posted and I've been working on this myself as well. Ok, the question. How do I test to see what the ohm resistance is in the coil? I guess I have no clue, I am new to circuits so please bare with me. I'm a fast learner and haven't been studying these very long. I do understand how to build them tough. I can read PCB's with no problem. Just have to get my calculations right. I hope I can achieve the same results as many others. :)
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: FastRuner on April 21, 2009, 07:28:49 PM
Hello.

All Bedini-technology video on this page:
http://www.matri-x.ru/video.shtml

and patents:
http://www.matri-x.ru/energy.shtml

Best regards, FastRuner.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Thaelin on April 22, 2009, 11:26:15 AM
   This would have been good to post one set of links in the "NEWS" section
instead of plastering it all over the board here. Cant read it anyhow, so its
useless to me. Many other links that are.
   Kind of call this spamming a group.
thaelin
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: FluxAmps on April 22, 2009, 03:10:36 PM
Hi to all,

i'm new here followed some topics for the last weeks on this forum and got very interrested
i'm trying to make some replication of the harddisk bedini system on the first page of this topic
i'm new to electronics too but already learned a lot by google last weeks.
i gathered some transistors and diodes out of old equipment already
got some old harddisk's and stuff, so i'm trying to put something together.

only it's not clear to me which neon lights i should use in the circuit,
can somebody give me data on those?

also i'm kinda struggling with making a good bifilar spool

http://wires.co.uk/acatalog/bb_wire.html

i like to order some bifilar wire for that from these guys
only i'm not sure which size i should take

i like to make some good spools from pvc elctrical pipe and bifilar wire
and use the welding rods as a core

although i've read some topics here about this subject

it's still not excactly clear too me
i mean i still don't have a clear picture of the best spool in mind.

maybe some of you can give me some more usefull hints
i like to make use of your experiences and avoid trying to reinvent the wheel, or the spool in this case ;)

thx... maurice

Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Thaelin on April 22, 2009, 03:54:12 PM
Hi Maurice:
   As for the bedini part of the circuit, look up the yahoo group Monopole3, it will
have a wealth of info there and a lot of very helpful peeps. I too am a member there.
Lots to see and do. Above all, have fun while you're at it.   ;D

thaelin
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: FluxAmps on April 22, 2009, 04:28:41 PM
thx

i'm gonna check that out for sure
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on May 04, 2009, 03:19:39 AM
I am cycle 12 now. My goal is 20 cycles than I will restest the whole thing.

Fausto.
Hows it going Plengo  . i got side tracked a bit doing Earth Battery Projects . I want to run one of these Fans on It and a 650 farad cap . Yes My Self runners are still running . I have put them to better use restoring a bunch of new batterys i got for free right now. Motorcycle batterys are the way to go one this as you will find out .. Take care and keep the Faith ..

fusionchip
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on May 04, 2009, 03:42:21 AM
Hows it going Plengo  . i got side tracked a bit doing Earth Battery Projects . I want to run one of these Fans on It and a 650 farad cap . Yes My Self runners are still running . I have put them to better use restoring a bunch of new batterys i got for free right now. Motorcycle batterys are the way to go one this as you will find out .. Take care and keep the Faith ..

fusionchip
Hello gadegtmall,

I stoped at cycle 15 and did a quick run test with the fan and no luck so far. I have been trying all my previous setups and also with the hard drive magnets. No luck at all.

I dont understand why it is not working.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: FluxAmps on May 04, 2009, 10:47:08 PM
i know this is not the best place, but I have to share it with you

I also posted it here:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7215.90

yo to @ll , something I wanted to share with you, this was in the dutch news today on television

http://www.rtl.nl/components/actueel/rtlnieuws/miMedia/2007/week25/wo_1930_electronische_ultramotor.avi_plain.xml

electromagnetic from russia on the commercial market, which seem to be pretty eficient!

I know your dutch is not that good, but there is some english spoken in it also.

greetings from amsterdam

still cleaning up my workbench and gathering parts for my first serious bedini try, well give me a few more weeks....
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: hartiberlin on May 13, 2009, 04:59:14 PM
i know this is not the best place, but I have to share it with you

I also posted it here:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7215.90

yo to @ll , something I wanted to share with you, this was in the dutch news today on television

http://www.rtl.nl/components/actueel/rtlnieuws/miMedia/2007/week25/wo_1930_electronische_ultramotor.avi_plain.xml

electromagnetic from russia on the commercial market, which seem to be pretty eficient!

I know your dutch is not that good, but there is some english spoken in it also.

greetings from amsterdam

still cleaning up my workbench and gathering parts for my first serious bedini try, well give me a few more weeks....

Hi,
many thanks for the interesting video !

Could you please download the movie and upload it to Youtube.com
and put some english subtitles under it and post the link to it ?

What is the power usage of these motors ?
How many Watts do they draw and do they just need
pulsed High Voltage to run and store the BackEMF again
into the accumulators ?

Many thanks.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: FluxAmps on May 14, 2009, 01:54:09 AM
@ hartiberlin
I wil see what I can do for posting it on youtube, good idea didn't think of that yet

I'm pretty busy right now though,
and meanwhile I'm trying to reorganize my workshop a bit to make make some testmodels
of bedini and others
i'm even thinking of combining several, look what we get than...

I don't know any technical spec or data on neither, they seem to not share much of that info,
buth they claim it's way more efficient than the usual electromotor

this is what I found on the patent though...

http://www.shelleys.demon.co.uk/apr03mot.htm

They call it Ultra Motor and it's invented by Vasiliy Shkondin

By the way I checked youtube on Ultra Motor and I see ther is a lot on youtube already
about this company

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=DDE5CDB1FD530D3C&search_query=ultra+motor

for as much I can see this company is really meaning business with this concept
I love the mountain bike like designs, real cool...

http://www.ultramotor.com/

another interesting video I found on these guys....

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/gadgets/0,39029552,49302064,00.htm





Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on May 19, 2009, 06:22:06 PM
Any News replicators ?

linkurl=http://www.forum-signatures.com](http://www.forum-signatures.com/wizard/Sigs/final1242749896159.gif)[/url]
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: FluxAmps on May 19, 2009, 08:36:21 PM
not much news overhere...

I build my first little pulse motor from a dvd player with eight  5mm neodymium block magnets
and some quick made try out coils around it and a read switch.

it runs on batteries right now and i still have to make the proper bedini circuit and coils(bifilar)

I got my scopes in though, I ordered a 2 channel usb scope for my laptop and a welec 4 channel 200MGhz scope
So now i got 6 scope channels, so I can finally see something(at least I think)
I don't know shit about scopes but I'm learning(still got a long way to go I'm afraid)
I think I can see the spike in the driver coil I made when it's running
So now I got to try and catch that one....

I recently found a very nice link with lot's of information

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4362954/Megacollection_-_Tom_Bearden_-_Complete_Works

with this link you can download a shitload of books and info on what we try to achieve here,
you need some torrent software for it though, it's word to install one for this(temporarely even)

It also contains a full .pdf version of tom bearden's 894 pages book - Energy from the vacuum - concepts and principles
Which as I understood is considered as the bible on this subject according to some people

plus lots and lots of other interresting stuff( over 200 .pdf files)
Think it's a musthave for your toolbox....
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: FluxAmps on May 20, 2009, 07:41:03 PM
some more usefull info on overunity

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9654/bearden/addition.html

http://www.cheniere.org/

tom bearden says this about it:

Every Electrical Source of Potential Is Already a Free Energy Source
We thus advance a revolutionary concept: all present power systems already utilize free energy source-antennas. However, the standard two-wire closed circuitry diabolically utilizes one-half the total free energy extracted by the source-antenna from the vacuum, to perform work inside the source-antenna to dissipate its dipolarity and hence to dissipate the source-antenna (i.e. the receiver) itself.
The source already acts as a "dipolar antenna" to continually receive "scalar potential" current d/dl (massless displacement current) from the vacuum. [Ref 9] Previously scientists and engineers have simply ignored this special massless EM energy influx. For load-free (i.e., mass-current-free) conditions, (d/dl) is continually received from the vacuum by any dipole (i.e., by any dipolar source-as-an-antenna), and the flowing energy is continually exchanged back and forth between the vacuum and the dipole.

This free energy exchange with the vacuum is also true of any two points in our circuit that possess an open-circuit voltage or potential difference between them. Two such points act as a dipole. Free energy dipolar antenna sources are everywhere; we just have to learn how to break the symmetry in their energy flux exchange with the vacuum, collect some of the freely flowing influx, and distribute that collected excess energy to an isolated load to separately power it.

In other words, we simply have to implement circuitry that operates analogous to the standard heat pump cycle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refrigeration_cycle

I'm trying to comprehend all this, anyone any ideas about circuits like that?
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: comwarrior on May 25, 2009, 02:40:05 PM
I've allready completed the feed back to source system this weekend...

Update 13 part A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xjeh2qFmWUU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xjeh2qFmWUU)

Update 13 part B http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDxC7FBrGEk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDxC7FBrGEk)
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 25, 2009, 05:09:23 PM
Comwarrior:

Welcome!  Great to see you here.  I will check out the videos you have posted.  You have been doing some really nice work and I have been following you on youtube for some time now.

Bill
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: comwarrior on May 25, 2009, 06:56:36 PM
Thanks bill,

TBH, the only reason for me posting here is because fusionchips feedback to source is still going after i blew it out of the water...

And since that i've now managed to do it, i thaught i'd save people the brain-ach...

I am working on an impressive mod to the entire bedini system based uppon the use of opto-couplers... Wasn't originally going to do it, however, my line of developement is about recovering and generating power to make a bedini self power...
As an spin off, my use of the feedback to source causes my drive pulse to be stronger due to the slightly higher voltage pulse... The weird thing is, my use of the back emf apears to effect the amount of power produced by my recovery coil... so anoying when i discover yet another 'power see-saw'...

Anyways, enough for now... I've extensively documented everything i've been doing on utube... about 3 hours of video i think...
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: FluxAmps on May 30, 2009, 03:43:53 AM
Yeah welcome comwarrior, so glad to see you here too my man..
I watched all your video's on you tube, following your progress....

Brilliant man, using optocouplers to keep the circuits apart, just brilliant...

You are one of a hand full of people I follow and try to replicate, when it's time to proof
Carry on my man, try and find the right people here and work together(guess u found um already)

I'm still so much in the kindergarten learning process, but it's on places like here on overunity I learn so much
thanks to people like you, one of the real warriors, keep on going my man
I'll cover you!! whenever it would be necessary!

Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: guruji on June 14, 2009, 09:54:39 AM
Hi Gagdetmall can you please explain me this circuit that you had send on another thread especially the FSMR part on the right?
Thanks
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: comwarrior on June 22, 2009, 11:07:08 AM
Yeah welcome comwarrior, so glad to see you here too my man..
I watched all your video's on you tube, following your progress....

Brilliant man, using optocouplers to keep the circuits apart, just brilliant...

You are one of a hand full of people I follow and try to replicate, when it's time to proof
Carry on my man, try and find the right people here and work together(guess u found um already)

I'm still so much in the kindergarten learning process, but it's on places like here on overunity I learn so much
thanks to people like you, one of the real warriors, keep on going my man
I'll cover you!! whenever it would be necessary!

Actially, TBH, the only technical guys i'm in contact with on a regular basis are drevtoobe and pwordcharnoir... Other that those two i got about 5 begginners on my msn list that i'm helping out when they need it...

i guess i annoyed a few people...
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on June 23, 2009, 03:21:11 AM
Hi Gagdetmall can you please explain me this circuit that you had send on another thread especially the FSMR part on the right?
Thanks
Its My battery swapper . replace  in 220k ohms with a pot to engage the SMALL RELAY to switch battery's for a Perpetual Jt . It simply triggers a relay when a set voltage is reached therefor swapping two battery's once one is charged . Its application can also be used for a bedini if you replace the relay (s)

Gadget
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on June 23, 2009, 03:31:14 AM
I've allready completed the feed back to source system this weekend...

Update 13 part A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xjeh2qFmWUU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xjeh2qFmWUU)

Update 13 part B http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDxC7FBrGEk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDxC7FBrGEk)
Welcome My arch Rival ::) What can i say but I told you My feedback to source Works ;) Good work but you are wasting your primary volts with all those parts . what is you input current . ? get it way below 25 Ma and you will have something left to capture and feed back ! The Piggy back works as does the 48 volt fan with a minimal of parts . one thing is use a transistor with high hfe over 200 or a combination of them . you make the trigger to complicated but no one can tell you anything cause you already know it all right .your 5 second claim is ridiculous . anyone can charge a super cap and run their bedini off the bemf STORED for hours !!
Ok I have found something that all of you Ou seekers should try .And those that have tried to replicate My two what i now believe is one of a kind 2 in a million Ou Selfrunners . I really thought you would get it but i guess i am not that good at explaining stuff that i built . I guess i am a natural and see thru things in a different way that most .Try this one
 Jonnydavro's no bearing Bedini . You won't believe the power this thing produces with practically less than any of the projects i have completed . this is easier than the 48 volts fan . You will see that there are Numerous sources to feed back . they are all separated generators running from one main magnet . this can run on one milliamp 1 volt and produce big bedini results . My next magnet will be a one inch N48 sphere . i understand the rpm goes higher the 100krps on  a tube magnet . i bet a sphere will go 500krps . the magnetic field is incrediblely large 2 X 2 foot bubble ..


gadget
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on June 23, 2009, 03:40:33 AM
Thanks bill,

TBH, the only reason for me posting here is because fusionchips feedback to source is still going after i blew it out of the water...

And since that i've now managed to do it, i thaught i'd save people the brain-ach...

I am working on an impressive mod to the entire bedini system based uppon the use of opto-couplers... Wasn't originally going to do it, however, my line of developement is about recovering and generating power to make a bedini self power...
As an spin off, my use of the feedback to source causes my drive pulse to be stronger due to the slightly higher voltage pulse... The weird thing is, my use of the back emf apears to effect the amount of power produced by my recovery coil... so anoying when i discover yet another 'power see-saw'...

Anyways, enough for now... I've extensively documented everything i've been doing on utube... about 3 hours of video i think...
Excuse me ? you Replicated it and failed is what you did . Mine is still running .If you Blew me out of the water then why are you feeding back ? I don't lie and i don't appreciate FOOLISH remarks basically calling me a liar . I am not . You failed . i didn't . When you can run your bedini on one milliamp like we can come back other wise go bark up another tree .Have a look at jonnybravo's bedini.
Gadget aka fusionchip
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on June 23, 2009, 04:08:32 PM
Actially, TBH, the only technical guys i'm in contact with on a regular basis are drevtoobe and pwordcharnoir... Other that those two i got about 5 begginners on my msn list that i'm helping out when they need it...

i guess i annoyed a few people...
Probably because you dont know what your talking about and Claim the Concept as your own when it was mine . a while back when i built the fan bedini feed back system .you said it couldn't be done . and John Bedini as well told us the Sg was designed to "SHUT DOWN" when attempting to feed back the output . I did it and proved that it can be done . Me not you . And several Replicators here have done it as well with the right part . I stand behind My Claim that i discovered a way to feedback the secondary  with a standard bedini with a few modifications . And i posted it open source FIRST period. So anything having to do with My circuit Concept is My intellectual property and proven to work . The only thing  not proven is more out than in and only a few have done it .myself included . I need not prove it to anyone other than myself. I am true to Myself and know what my eyes see . there are hidden factors which i cannot describe be it parts, or placement of parts , resonance in length of wires and other factors of components but i can say that one of my 48 volts fans runs itself and charges as well . I won't post here unless i find another interesting way of feedback to source from a bedini or bedini like circuit .In my opinion 5 seconds dont  count .Days might .month yes . years of running a self runner is a problem without special switching and discharging of a selfrunner  OU Bedini . The Batterys will Cook and dry up yet they are the most important part of any bedini .

GADGETMALL

aka FUSIONCHIP .
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: guruji on June 23, 2009, 08:40:55 PM
Its My battery swapper . replace  in 220k ohms with a pot to engage the SMALL RELAY to switch battery's for a Perpetual Jt . It simply triggers a relay when a set voltage is reached therefor swapping two battery's once one is charged . Its application can also be used for a bedini if you replace the relay (s)

Gadget

Hi Gadgetmall thanks for response so that part on the right is a relay. Can you please tell me what type of relay is that? Is there a part number?
Yes I need it for my Bedini charger.
Thanks
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on June 23, 2009, 11:19:31 PM
Hi Gadgetmall thanks for response so that part on the right is a relay. Can you please tell me what type of relay is that? Is there a part number?
Yes I need it for my Bedini charger.
Thanks
This system was designed for a Jt and the circuit is being powered with 5 volts . I made this for a Joule thief battery swapper . as you know a joule thief is just like a bedini circuit wise . the relay is a small 5 volt 1 amp relay available from goldmine electronics . i don't have the part number handy but any 5 volt relay will do / for a bedini the 5 volt relay should then switch another relay with its own coil voltage and power supply to handle the amperage in a bedini battery . ie 12Volts .
Gadget
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: llewgnal on July 02, 2009, 02:59:43 PM
Boy this Kontara CRAP is a bunch of Garbage, very annoying...
  GET RID OF IT! >:(
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on July 03, 2009, 04:57:19 AM
Boy this Kontara CRAP is a bunch of Garbage, very annoying...
  GET RID OF IT! >:(
Whats annoying is a Newbe Posting Garbage when you should show your Experiments and prove your Point.

Gadget
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: llewgnal on July 04, 2009, 05:13:13 AM
  You wiyh no idea what I even do, judge me without even knowing what I do...
  Check out my you tube little man.
                                                    llewgnal @ youtube
P.S. Not just a scrap cd player...
                                                      Grow up.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: comwarrior on August 03, 2009, 02:05:27 AM
fusionchip aka gadgetmall...
if you did your homework and actually looked at my vids you'd know that about 80% of what you just said was crap...

As for the rest... if you only knew what was bolted on to the rest of my pulse motor you would be more willing to listern...

Quote
You wiyh no idea what I even do, judge me without even knowing what I do...
 Check out my you tube little man.
                                                    llewgnal @ youtube

I couldn't have said it better Llewbnal...
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: guruji on August 04, 2009, 08:35:13 PM
Hi gagdetmall it's me again can you please tell me how to connect the bedini output wires to that battery switcher relay?
I put a 12v relay and it has 8 connections.
Two for the coil and the other six for the switch.
Can you please help me?
Thanks
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: johnkhutchison on August 05, 2009, 03:23:43 AM
hi all i was reading the Marcus Reid power cells . interesting technology darpa is involved in miniature management power systems as some of you know i been building power cells for some years crystal power cells ; we have most recently made great advances in these cells logged at my you tube channel johnkhutchison2008 and http//
:johnkhutchison.blogspot.com http://www.myspace.com/johnkhutchison where i post all the latest findings and information videos  still coming into you tube  we are in prototypes of half volt to 3 volt types  and ranges of a milliamper to several amperes if connected to the old electrolyitics and self chargeing capacitors made by the westing house process years ago for the navy to help you in this diodes play important roles self reactive type also and electrets  the race to zero point is on with news stories of noika self chargeing batteries and sbir dod programs of new energy sources fy-86 af pages 212  please read for info on myspaces and videos and my blogger for all the greates news thank you
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: llewgnal on August 09, 2009, 04:10:58 PM
  Right on... tell the jerk
Ledgin in his own mind.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: plengo on August 29, 2009, 01:46:15 AM
I would like to announce that this project IS ALIVE AND  BACK!!!

I think I DO have (finally) this system running the FAN and charging the batteries back.

But I would like to open a new thread instead of continuing this one. The reason is that this system that I have is a bit different than what we have seen. It is primordially what Gadgetmall have done but with some extra things and ideas.

What do you think Gadgetmall?

Fausto.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Goat on August 29, 2009, 01:49:04 AM
I would like to announce that this project IS ALIVE AND  BACK!!!

I think I DO have (finally) this system running the FAN and charging the batteries back.

But I would like to open a new thread instead of continuing this one. The reason is that this system that I have is a bit different than what we have seen. It is primordially what Gadgetmall have done but with some extra things and ideas.

What do you think Gadgetmall?

Fausto.

Yes Fausto! Go for it but please post it as a Gadgetmall Hybrid if you please.

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: lespaul109 on September 05, 2009, 12:41:12 AM
@ plengo

do you have your results from your new design yet?
if it's looking good, can you post a schematic?

jake
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on September 10, 2009, 01:43:11 PM
I would like to announce that this project IS ALIVE AND  BACK!!!

I think I DO have (finally) this system running the FAN and charging the batteries back.

But I would like to open a new thread instead of continuing this one. The reason is that this system that I have is a bit different than what we have seen. It is primordially what Gadgetmall have done but with some extra things and ideas.

What do you think Gadgetmall?

Fausto.
That is wonderful Fausto . I have seen your new thread and i think its a vast improvement over using non standard parts . You are the only one who has seen what i see and are a true Experimentor unlike the neysayers who have no idea what they are talking about . I just Ignor them as they have no Merit but a big mouth and are scared fools with nothing to contribuite but There stupid mumirings . As for Com worrier the one who proved i was right and admitted it on youtube why do you bring yourself down to low life levels like llewgnal a Dumb Newbie kid  who thinks he is grown . I would expect this kind of behavior on a posted video on youtube from deserphile whom everyone knows is a drunkard but to allow it here is inappropriate . you just show your immature jealousy  . I am old enuff to be your granddad llewgnal and don't care about your post . And i simply shared My projects with perspective builders, no tricks and i asked nothing from you  . I respect your continued experiments on MY project and advise you you post your results other than slander Me .I do respect you unlike some others . I am the only one on the internet with a customer base who actually sell FREE EXERGY Devices to the public . One is the E- Light and its Patent pending . I have sold Many and everyone who has them see i am a real inventor  of a free energy device that you can own . It operates in a simular way except there is magnetic rotation instead of a rotor and runs Leds on one aaa battery while charging a spare up to full capacity for swapping indefinatly . I have proved Myself without a doubt while losers continue to contribuite nothing but Slander .

Good Going Fauto and thank you for keeping this project alive and devising a normal parts list rater than My milatary surplus rare parts .
God Bless you and i will follow your progress and provide you with any insight you ask for however i will never post another project of mine as i am now in the process of patent pending everything i have and once that happens its top secret like My Eturnity light . I have also puchased www.eturnitylight.com to  promote My manufactures products once i have sold the right to Manufacture My invention to China and japan the Uk Tiwan and several other who have already contacted me . It worth Millions in royalties and that Schematic will never be Public or given away like this one has .

God Bless you Fausto and also Goat for Starting The thread here . If you all ever get it to the point i have a real stable resonance and once that is obtained you will see more out than in . I have proved it . It is not only a matter of parts but part location as well along with length of wire and where its routed . When you get to the point of self running start playing with parts locations

Gadget
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on September 10, 2009, 02:01:00 PM
hi all i was reading the Marcus Reid power cells . interesting technology darpa is involved in miniature management power systems as some of you know i been building power cells for some years crystal power cells ; we have most recently made great advances in these cells logged at my you tube channel johnkhutchison2008 and http//
:johnkhutchison.blogspot.com http://www.myspace.com/johnkhutchison where i post all the latest findings and information videos  still coming into you tube  we are in prototypes of half volt to 3 volt types  and ranges of a milliamper to several amperes if connected to the old electrolyitics and self chargeing capacitors made by the westing house process years ago for the navy to help you in this diodes play important roles self reactive type also and electrets  the race to zero point is on with news stories of noika self chargeing batteries and sbir dod programs of new energy sources fy-86 af pages 212  please read for info on myspaces and videos and my blogger for all the greates news thank you
Hi and welcome  john . I appreciate your post and insight to self running technology . It is here and it is real as you see . again thank you for the Valuable contribution and open mindness  .

Gadget
www.sunpowerwindpower.com
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Maqone on November 07, 2009, 12:06:42 AM
Can you run this motor?
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Goat on November 07, 2009, 07:29:47 AM
@ Maqone

I'm not 100% sure but what you have is an A/C motor and the plan calls for a D/C motor, I don't think it would work for this project, but I could be wrong.

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: guruji on November 07, 2009, 09:36:38 PM
Hi gadgetmall I saw your website very nice best regards. I'm still trying to work out that battery swapper >:( ;D.
So is it possible to use a 12v relay instead of using a 5vrelay than attached to 12v one?
Thanks for your circuits.
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on November 07, 2009, 10:01:24 PM
Can you run this motor?
No . this motor will not work for my Project . I use Dc Fans . the special one is 48 volts dc . What you have is an ac fan and it does not have Bifialar windings nor permanent magnets .

Gadget
aka fusionchip
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on November 07, 2009, 10:13:07 PM
Hi gadgetmall I saw your website very nice best regards. I'm still trying to work out that battery swapper >:( ;D.
So is it possible to use a 12v relay instead of using a 5vrelay than attached to 12v one?
Thanks for your circuits.
Hi . No you still need the 5 v relay but what you do is use the 5 volt relay to control a second 12 volt relay with its own coil supply using the primary source if its 12 volts . In other words use the 5 v relay as a switch to turn on the 12 olt . that swapper is a circuit i made for swapping Very low voltage circuits like a Joule thief that charges another battery . I have improved it with better components for a device i will sell Next Year called the Infinity Cube . Auto switching Light Source that continues to run indefinitely.right now i have a version 2 E-light that has a three position Switch and uses special coils and Fets to light up three 20 milliamp leds and create an Excess Charge of 10 volts 5 Milli ampere all from a 1.2 volt battery drawing 5-10 milliamps adjustable . Other projects are a small retor fit device to put on light bulbs and produce light after the AC to the house light is off . using Tophat Pure white 1 watt leds ,Solar cell and Supercaps and a special JT that runs on 0 .11 milliamps and 0.20 to 2.7 volts .  thanks

Gadget
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: nvisser on November 08, 2009, 09:43:14 AM
Hi Gadget
I noticed that on your schematic, FushionchipFeedBackToSource002, you use on your bifilar no 16 and 20 wire. Is that 16 and 20 awg?
IT is surely then very thick wire for your drive coil. With 500 turns the resistance must be very low. Is it not difficult to get the input current to under 20mA with these thick wires when you run the rotor or even with the cap switched in to chance it to solid state?
You also mentioned somewhere that the Hfe of the transistor should be high. I checked the gains of the transistor that Bedini uses and they are low.
I am currently switching the positive and uses a 2sb1375 pnp with a gain of  320 where the 2n3055 that is used by everybody only has a Hfe of 20
The circuit for using a pnp are nearly the same. You only swop the 2 battery polarities and the 2 diode polarities. Your charge diode and the diode on the base.
The only thing I still have to do is to turn a new bifilar coil with this thick wires.
Can that be the secret to your setup?
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on November 08, 2009, 08:26:32 PM
Hi Gadget
I noticed that on your schematic, FushionchipFeedBackToSource002, you use on your bifilar no 16 and 20 wire. Is that 16 and 20 awg?
IT is surely then very thick wire for your drive coil. With 500 turns the resistance must be very low. Is it not difficult to get the input current to under 20mA with these thick wires when you run the rotor or even with the cap switched in to chance it to solid state?
You also mentioned somewhere that the Hfe of the transistor should be high. I checked the gains of the transistor that Bedini uses and they are low.
I am currently switching the positive and uses a 2sb1375 pnp with a gain of  320 where the 2n3055 that is used by everybody only has a Hfe of 20
The circuit for using a pnp are nearly the same. You only swop the 2 battery polarities and the 2 diode polarities. Your charge diode and the diode on the base.
The only thing I still have to do is to turn a new bifilar coil with this thick wires.
Can that be the secret to your setup?
Hi i am not sure but i use thick wires . The secret on My piggy back coil system is to extend the main coils Core to allow many coils to slip over that core . Lots of energy from the back of My coil . I could probably put a foot of welding rods sticking out the back of my main coil and hang 10 coils off the back ,each producing its own volts all without and Lenz law affect to the main rotor !!This is one way i have achieved a self running Over the unity bedini . Dont listen to what Bedini says . Its to throw us off . I things like feedback from the secondary directly to the primary source . He says it cant be done with SG replication . I say and a handful of others thats not true. Transistor Amplification and switching times are important in some other fan Bedinis i have built .

gadget
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Maqone on November 09, 2009, 12:37:47 AM
is dhis run?
Dimensions: 203×50×48 mm
Supply voltage app: 48 V dc
Power consumption: 7 W
Capacity: 75 m³/h
Bearing: Ball
Sound pressure level: 48 dBA
Pressure: ≤62 Pa
Type tech: Tangential
Rotational speed: 4300 r/min
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Maqone on November 09, 2009, 12:39:06 AM
or this?
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: Maqone on November 09, 2009, 12:40:51 AM
Which  engine is better ?
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: gadgetmall on November 09, 2009, 01:35:12 AM
or this?
I have not experimented with this type of motor . All mine say Brushless DC on the back . When I open them By taking the rotor off with a small c clamp under the sticker and take the blades off there are 4 individual coils and a ring magnet in the hub of the blade.

Gadget .

Search for Imhotep on youtube and there is an instructional video for computer powersupply fans to modify them . All Computer power supplies have Dc brushless fans also but they are 12 volts . a good start .
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: nvisser on November 09, 2009, 02:04:44 PM
Hi i am not sure but i use thick wires .
gadget
Is it easy to get the input current under 20ma when running the rotor with this thick wires?
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: guruji on November 11, 2009, 08:57:03 PM
Hi Magone I think you can run that motor but it has to be rewinded if you're trying an imhotep fun.
I had winded one in the past;one clockwise and the other unticlockwise regarding windings.
Bye bye


Can you run this motor?
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: triffid on January 29, 2010, 04:05:53 PM
test
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: triffid on February 19, 2010, 05:21:15 AM
Looks like to me old tvs and stereos plus old computers would be a good source of parts to build these bedini fan motor/generators.triffid
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: shabamsev on April 21, 2010, 01:06:55 AM
hey guys, I'm in the proses of gathering the things up i need to try this out, but i ran across a vary interesting fan and need some input. This fan is 12vdc it looks like 2  Bifialar coils windings, i have never ran across fan like this, could this be something to test with or is it just not going to work at all? any input would be grate. Thanks, Russ
Title: Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
Post by: mscoffman on April 21, 2010, 03:31:55 AM
@shabamsev,

Does this motor have permanent magnets in the fan
rotor? If it does then I guess it could be a two coil
DC motor rather then the usual four.  It would use
the armature iron metal to couple the magfield into
the correct spots. One coil could be used as the Bedini
sense coil and the other used for the drive coil. You
may need to add another wire connection if the one
common connection is not in the correct place for
the Bedini circuit.

If there are no permanent magnets in the rotor it could
be AC motor drive synthesised by the IC. In which case
it would not be a feasible bedini conversion.

:S:MarkSCoffman