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Author Topic: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!  (Read 182980 times)

Offline Groundloop

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #210 on: March 01, 2009, 12:46:52 PM »
@gyulasun,

OK, I will try that.

Attached is a image of my moving Iron amp meter while the motor is running.
(The scale of the meter is 1 ampere. First marking after zero is 0,1 ampere.)

[Edit1] I did try capacitors ranging from 5pF 33pF 100pF 1nF 10nF 220nF. At 220nF the trigger coil started to
          work as an generator and slowed down the rotor due to Lentz law. So I did not work.

Groundloop
« Last Edit: March 01, 2009, 01:33:52 PM by Groundloop »

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #210 on: March 01, 2009, 12:46:52 PM »

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #211 on: March 01, 2009, 01:58:01 PM »
Many thanks for testing it,  it is pity Nature does not give in easily...

I would like to refer to this link and give credit to gadgetmall where he showed his schematic with the capacitor shunted potmeters, though in a bit different way: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6123.msg159208#msg159208

Keep up good work.

rgds,  Gyula

Offline Hoppy

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #212 on: March 01, 2009, 08:07:42 PM »
Hi all

I've had my Eureka moment!! Having watched Fausto's excellent set of videos, I altered my circuit a little to replicate his output diode network with the neon and cap. Initially I started to see small increases in voltage using two 2.8A/hr SLA 12V batteries in series. The voltage eventually stopped rising, I happened to be looking at my AVO current meter which is in series with the battery when I readjusted the pot and noticed that the sweet spot appeared to be in a sub-resonant dip where the current drops and then rises again. These dips will be familiar to anyone who has experimented with Bedini SG energisers. I very carefully adjusted the pot untill I was in the bottom of the dip and at this point I started to see the voltage rise again. This time it kept on rising even though I was drawing 48mA from the batteries and the fan was spinning quite fast (I need to measure the RPM). The initial rise was rather eratic with the voltage rising and falling but eventually it steadied and began to rise with no fluctuations. As the voltage steadied, the fan began to vibrate quite badly and I had to clamp it down to my bench!

I have attached three scope shots of the waveform taken across the transistor collector / emitter. The first photo is taken at 5V / 20uS. Photo 2 is at 5V/2mS and photo 3 is at 5V / 0.5mS. I'm quite staggered at these waveforms as they show the spikes developing into sinus waveforms in photo 1.

I think that Gadget has really found something here and thanks to him we can explore this in detail as its replicated by two of us now. I'm using a converted 24V fan, so the fan appears not to be too critical only the tuning.

Hoppy

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #212 on: March 01, 2009, 08:07:42 PM »
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Offline Groundloop

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #213 on: March 01, 2009, 08:26:13 PM »
@Hoppy,

What was the start up rest voltage on your batteries?
Did the voltage in the batteries climb above the start up voltage?

Groundloop.

Offline Hoppy

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #214 on: March 01, 2009, 09:50:48 PM »
@Hoppy,

What was the start up rest voltage on your batteries?
Did the voltage in the batteries climb above the start up voltage?

Groundloop.

That's a good question because I did not record the exact start up rest voltage because the charging effect started up suddenly whilst I was fiddling with the tuning without me being prepared to do a recorded test run. However, I can say that the rest voltage was higher than the voltage reached before I terminated the test run. I had hoped to let it run on but the neon leads shorted together and knocked it out of tune after the voltage had climbed up at about 0.2V.  I can only get good high charging with two poor conditioned 12V SLA batteries in series with a combined on-load voltage of around 18V. I tried out two well conditioned good batteries of the same make and labelled capacity but could not find a 'sweet spot' where I could get the voltage to climb very well.

I'm happy I've seen the effect that both Gadget and Fausto have seen over a period of time but I think the cause of it is something to do with the two batteries being bad and in in series because I cannot get the effect with just one bad 12V battery. It will be interesting to see if Fausto can get high charging with two small well charged and conditioned SLA  batteries.

This is an excellent project even if it turns out that this is not a true self-charging setup because it will have cleared a few mysteries about other motor projects running at very low power which appear to self-charge or at least hold unity.

Hoppy


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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #214 on: March 01, 2009, 09:50:48 PM »
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Offline Groundloop

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #215 on: March 01, 2009, 10:26:34 PM »
@Hoppy,

Thank you for taking time to answer my questions. I could also see some voltage gain with my
two coil pulse motor when tuned to very low current usage and ONLY when using two drained
12 volt 7 ampere batteries in series. When it happened the rotor slowed down and did stop after
a few minutes. Keep up the good work.

Groundloop.

Offline plengo

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #216 on: March 02, 2009, 12:30:10 AM »
@Hoppy,

I am very glad you are able to see this too. Today I only have been having bad moments. I changed my board trying to reduce the number of resistors and make it more compact preparing to make a real mica-board with parts solded but doing that I am not able to find that "second sweet" spot where the voltage rises only the "first sweet" spot where the voltage does not drop. So I am able to see two spots: first and second.

I am recording everything. I still have about 20 more videos to upload because at around video 20th or something is when I really had the voltage going up without any doubts that it was really working (at least for me).

With all that being said, one thing I would watch out for, which I did fall many times in the beginning of my research was that sometimes while I was trying to find the sweet spot and therefore changing the whole configuration (changing too many parameters) I would drain the battery but them I would find the "first sweet" spot (the one that only keeps the voltage steady) and the voltage would climb very fast giving the "false" impression that it was working. Indeed it was working but not perfectly. It was a combination of the battery not being used really (first spot - restoring the used energy back to the battery) and at the same time the battery resting to its stable voltage, giving in the end the idea that it was really climbing in voltage. Only the "second sweet" spot will do that, which I did record it camera very later (and only after that I really had courage to publish the videos so others could try it too).

That "second sweet" spot is very difficult to find it by measurement. Anything can change that, the board, the distance of the components, the wiring, the air, the day light, sun, moon you name it. It is sometimes very frustating, but at least now I know it does exists.

And concerning what you said about other motors, yes, I also agree with you. I have played a long time with the Adams motor (I have probably over 50 video logs but never publish neither I am planning to do it yet) and I notice the same phenomena too but it was very difficult to find it and repeat it neither was it believable. I was suspicious of it but only after gadedtmall published his findings I knew that it does exists. Now I know that this is what I had with my Adams motor.

@Groundloop,

Thank you for participating at this thread. You are a very valuable friend here. Thanks again for that board you sent (I still have not time for that research yet).

Fausto.


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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #216 on: March 02, 2009, 12:30:10 AM »
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Offline gadgetmall

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #217 on: March 02, 2009, 06:40:27 AM »
@all  I want to thank everybody here working on this project .  I will be Building a Big one this summer and starting a new thread modifying window fans that you see in dollar stores for a few bucks . Once you guys get this one nailed down and realize i dont kid about this stuff i will move on to the next project .. . I have been in electronics a long time but lost most it from not using it .you guys are doing very good and almost got it and i love the fact that there are some very Smart People with good details being recorded open source . . I hope My second one runs like this one . I will be using some different parts . I found most of the stuff and circuits i make use pre 1970 Vintage electronics that you cant get anymore. I wonder why ?? those parts did something special and its hard to get stuff to do the things they do . .. Anyways im going to try a darlington on the next 48 volt mod and see where it goes . If one switching transistor works i bet two will work better with faster charging power and more speed . My fan Creeps and charges . . I have three projects to finish up for some people and then i can play again . thank you guys again .
Fausto . simplify the stuff if you have it to spare . some of my project fans everything was soldered to a cap even the pots . has anyone tried a zener diode on the base emmiter  reversed . i think this is what i got but i am not sure .possible the transistor is acting like a negistor ..?  I guess i will find out on number 2 48 volt fan .  you are so very close . . It might be just a winding or two that makes the difference . Like the JT Circuit .. on more loop will throw it out of tune  possible PF capacitance was making the difference on you proto board could be simulated with Pf caps  to get her rolling again .   /?.  ?
 Gn
Gadget . 

Offline Hoppy

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #218 on: March 02, 2009, 09:58:38 AM »
@ Fausto

The 'second' sweet spot voltage rise is very convincing but we do need to ensure that the final charge voltage rises above the 'at rest' start voltage to be sure that the battery is in fact charging. Its very easy to miss recording this important piece of data when experimenting and its good that Groundloop raised this question. If I can see this happening I will be convinced but at the moment I feel we may be observing something very interesting but not necessarily a true charging situation that can be used practically by scaling up. I hope that you will be able to show us this important 'at rest' start voltage before you demo your 'sweet spot' battery charging in your later videos. I would suggest that we need to give our batteries at least four hours rest before taking this voltage measurement prior to filming the charging event.

Back to the bench!

Hoppy

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #218 on: March 02, 2009, 09:58:38 AM »
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Offline Goat

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #219 on: March 02, 2009, 10:09:54 AM »
@ Hoppy

Bedini mentioned the need to drain and recharge the batteries several times in order to achieve a shorter recharge time on the conditioned batteries, I'm not sure if it would be useful on this experiment being that there is only one battery involved but it might be worth a try.

Regards,
Paul

Offline Hoppy

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #220 on: March 02, 2009, 11:30:06 AM »
@ Hoppy

Bedini mentioned the need to drain and recharge the batteries several times in order to achieve a shorter recharge time on the conditioned batteries, I'm not sure if it would be useful on this experiment being that there is only one battery involved but it might be worth a try.

Regards,
Paul

Good point. The two small 2.8A/hr SLA's I'm using for my current test run have been cycled and conditioned numerous times using a Bedini energiser and in much better condition than the batteries in my previous test run. I have been able to reach the 'sweet spot' but with these batteries the voltage did rise a couple of hundreth's of a volt but have stabilised and at the moment just holding very well. At the moment I'm 0.07V below start voltage. The two batteries used in my previous test run were also Bedini conditioned but drained down. The charging effect was much more pronounced with these and perhaps significantly the voltages were very unequal.

Hoppy

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #220 on: March 02, 2009, 11:30:06 AM »
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Offline AbbaRue

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #221 on: March 04, 2009, 01:22:11 AM »
@gadgetmall
Have you tried charging a number of NiCd or Lithium rechargeables in series.
They are usually 1.25 volts each so you can combine as many as needed to get any voltage.
9 Volt rechargeables are made from six 1.25 batteries in series and are only 7.5 volts when fully charged.
So you could us 2 in series to get 15 Volts or 3 in series to get 22.5 Volts.
The reason I mention them is because they will charge and discharge much quicker then the Lead Acid batteries,
so the effect will be noticed much quicker.
Instead of having to run the setup all night you will know if the batteries are charging for sure within minutes.
Maybe these types of batteries don't work with the bedini circuit I haven't researched it.
I have never seen a very small 12 V lead acid battery, but I have seen 6 V ones that are quite small. 


Offline IceStorm

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #222 on: March 04, 2009, 02:10:38 AM »
Hi AbbaRue,
                 
                   You bring a excellent point here, and to anwser your question, NiCd battery work very well, John used a 9v battery in his Cigar Box who ran for 7 years non stop. The best test here to know for sure is to run it on a extremely small battery like AbbaRue said. A 9v battery is usualy 150mA rated so if your setup use under 50mA i think that will be the best choice for a fullproof.

Best Regards,
IceStorm

EDIT: Typo
« Last Edit: March 04, 2009, 05:48:32 AM by IceStorm »

Offline IceStorm

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #223 on: March 04, 2009, 06:14:34 AM »
If you want to stick to lead acid there some nice little one here http://www.interstatebatteries.com/cs_estore/Products/RT/PID-SLA1010(Other+Products).aspx?dsNavigation=Nu~Part%20Number,Ns~product%20Type|101|1|,N~44-2147384810-4294967267

12v 700mAh

Offline Hoppy

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #224 on: March 04, 2009, 09:16:21 AM »

Yes I agree, it is important to see the charging effect go above the 'at rest' voltage using small new batteries either Nicad or LA that are reasonably well pre-charged.

Hoppy

 

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