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Author Topic: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!  (Read 185087 times)

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #225 on: March 04, 2009, 09:36:38 AM »
I am using 2 9 volt rechargeables on my replication if my shipment from all electronics ever gets here with my neons....

Bill

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #225 on: March 04, 2009, 09:36:38 AM »

Offline plengo

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #226 on: March 04, 2009, 04:59:23 PM »
I am creating a new series of video logs this time using only 2 SLAs. They are each 5 amp/h sizes. This way one can know faster if it works or not.

One thing I have notice in my last tests is this weird effect. I have the circuit tunned and spinning steadily voltage drops .01v and stabilizes there. Eight hours later I see a gain in 0.01v and the fan is spinning very well. All looks good and well. It seams to be a not only self-runner but also a gain. Then all of a sudden the fan just stops. Battery resting voltage is exactly where I started 8 hours ago, sometimes even flick a little bit going above the initial voltage.

I am puzzled, I give the fan a spin by hand and wait 5 minutes. Voltage drop 0.01v and fan stops spinning. Voltage goes back to where it was. I give another spin by hand and the same happen, BUT, if I try that a couple more times, without changing anything, then the fan spins good for another 8 hours but now the voltage only drops until the whole process starts again. It finds another bottom voltage plataform (usually the same as before) and goes up and stops.

I have a theory: The radiant spikes are creating the "negative electricity" on the battery (as Bedini says) and becomes so prevalent that no longer the battery is giving the "positive electricity" to the system and so the fan stops. Bedini clearly states in his videos and on the Monopole yahoo forum that you "can not switch the front and back batteries (primary and secondary) to run indefinitely the SSG machine, one must use an inverter when putting the charging battery (secondary) in place of the running battery (primary) because the negative electricity will not work with the SSG.

I think this is happening here because I can replicate this phenomena many times besides being extremely frustating. The same happend on my real first success and now on my new successes.

@gadgetmall,

how does yours system runs? does it ever stops?

Fausto.

Offline IceStorm

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #227 on: March 04, 2009, 05:30:02 PM »
........
Bedini clearly states in his videos and on the Monopole yahoo forum that you "can not switch the front and back batteries (primary and secondary) to run indefinitely the SSG machine, one must use an inverter when putting the charging battery (secondary) in place of the running battery (primary) because the negative electricity will not work with the SSG.
........

This limitation only apply for the standard SSG , not the trifilar or the "Cap pulser". Your cap is exactly where the secondary battery should be so we can assume the radiant get converted in the cap before going to the primary. Just remember the Cigar box john build, just one 9v NiCd , and ran for 7yrs+. its why i said you should use a 9v for your experiment, you have a realy low discharge rate so the 150mA on that type of battery should'nt be a problem. Even a 5Amp/H battery is not suitable for your experiment, even at 50mA discharge rate your battery can theoricaly run for 1000 hour, so near 42 Day. The main problem is the non-linearity of lead acid battery, the discharge curve is not linear and can go up/down for no reason even with a standard load if the power consumption is realy low, at each plateau the battery seem to not discharge anymore but its not realy that , each batterie have his own discharge curve, take 10 brand new fully charged identical batterie and they all be different in the discharge curve . That put ALOT of incontrolable variable to be able to say if the setup work or not.extremely small battery clean alot of variable.

Best Regards,
IceStorm

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #227 on: March 04, 2009, 05:30:02 PM »
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Offline Hoppy

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #228 on: March 04, 2009, 06:31:29 PM »

I am puzzled, I give the fan a spin by hand and wait 5 minutes. Voltage drop 0.01v and fan stops spinning. Voltage goes back to where it was. I give another spin by hand and the same happen, BUT, if I try that a couple more times, without changing anything, then the fan spins good for another 8 hours but now the voltage only drops until the whole process starts again. It finds another bottom voltage plataform (usually the same as before) and goes up and stops.

Fausto.

I have seen this myself. The problem is that even if the battery is heavily pulsed after it stops, the voltage can still eventually come to rest at where it was. As IceStorm says, we need to run the experiment on a very small battery. The battery needs a capacity where the load current represents a reasonable percentage of the battery capacity. If we are drawing 10mA, then this would translate to a capacity of 200mA/hrs at the C20 rate and a small PP3 type 9V battery would fit the bill nicely. If a small 9V NICAD battery does not show the effect, then an SLA under 1A/hr would be my next choice (if available). I agree with IceStorm that a 5A/hr battery is too big, especially if its in good condition, which it really must be to make the charging effect believable.

Hoppy

Offline plengo

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #229 on: March 04, 2009, 08:25:09 PM »
This limitation only apply for the standard SSG , not the trifilar or the "Cap pulser". Your cap is exactly where the secondary battery should be so we can assume the radiant get converted in the cap before going to the primary. Just remember the Cigar box john build, just one 9v NiCd , and ran for 7yrs+. its why i said you should use a 9v for your experiment, you have a realy low discharge rate so the 150mA on that type of battery should'nt be a problem. Even a 5Amp/H battery is not suitable for your experiment, even at 50mA discharge rate your battery can theoricaly run for 1000 hour, so near 42 Day. The main problem is the non-linearity of lead acid battery, the discharge curve is not linear and can go up/down for no reason even with a standard load if the power consumption is realy low, at each plateau the battery seem to not discharge anymore but its not realy that , each batterie have his own discharge curve, take 10 brand new fully charged identical batterie and they all be different in the discharge curve . That put ALOT of incontrolable variable to be able to say if the setup work or not.extremely small battery clean alot of variable.

Best Regards,
IceStorm

I agree with you partly IceStorm. Yes I will try with much smaller battery, I already bought the 9v NiCd to try out.

My disagreement is with the calculation of how big the battery should be. 42 days that a 5amp/h can run is theoretical but never pratical WITHOUT any voltage drop. I can see voltage dropping for 5ma and also NOT see the voltage drop for the same 5ma depending only on the changes on the configuration. I agree smaller the battery it will be faster to test but not necessarily to see the effect. I can see the voltage dropping with a bad configuration while not dropping at all with a good configuration. The battery must be recharging. May be not enough to pass the initial voltage (although gadetmall has done it).

What I am saying is that you can test this phenomena now with a 100amp/h or 5amp/h battery just fine. It is not about discharging the battery fully to its full 100 hour at 1amp or 10 thousand hours at 1 mili-amp. It is about dropping 0.01v in 1 day or less or not dropping at all in days at 5 ma.

Fausto.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #229 on: March 04, 2009, 08:25:09 PM »
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Offline Hoppy

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #230 on: March 04, 2009, 08:59:15 PM »

What I am saying is that you can test this phenomena now with a 100amp/h or 5amp/h battery just fine. It is not about discharging the battery fully to its full 100 hour at 1amp or 10 thousand hours at 1 mili-amp. It is about dropping 0.01v in 1 day or less or not dropping at all in days at 5 ma.

Fausto.



I agree when you say that the effect can be seen with bigger batteries and this has been verified by both of us. However, it is important to do the experiment with small batteries simply to see if the effect is observable. It may be that the effect relies on sufficient battery capacity. I do not find it particularly significant that the battery can either hold voltage for long periods of time or even climb in these very low current and high battery capacity conditions. IMO the significance of this experiment is to establish if the charging effect is real and that requires the obvservance of a significant rise of voltage above the 'at rest' voltage. This has not yet been demonstrated to my satisfaction. Further validation of 'real charging' is required over and above this observation in the form of load testing to ensure that battery capacity has not been compromised by the charging effect.

Hoppy

Offline plengo

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #231 on: March 04, 2009, 09:45:20 PM »
Yes. Let's test with smaller batteries.

Fausto.

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #231 on: March 04, 2009, 09:45:20 PM »
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Offline Groundloop

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #232 on: March 04, 2009, 09:59:00 PM »
@Plengo,

Have you considered the possibility that your fan stops because the total charge
in the battery is going down? If the circuit charge the battery then the fan should speed
up. Then when the current goes up the fan should slow down again. So if there is
a charging effect then the fan should never stop at all.

Groundloop.

Offline plengo

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #233 on: March 04, 2009, 10:03:10 PM »
@Plengo,

Have you considered the possibility that your fan stops because the total charge
in the battery is going down? If the circuit charge the battery then the fan should speed
up. Then when the current goes up the fan should slow down again. So if there is
a charging effect then the fan should never stop at all.

Groundloop.

Yes I considered that. But why would persisting to run the fan will work and still run for a long period of time. It is just those first 30 minutes after it stops that takes to start it again. It is almost as if it does not want to run at all then it changes its mind and runs.

If it was the charge level of the battery it would not run at all once it stops, but that is not the case and the battery still holds the same voltage as when it was started (even though it could be ghost voltage).

Fausto.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #233 on: March 04, 2009, 10:03:10 PM »
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Offline IceStorm

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #234 on: March 04, 2009, 10:10:00 PM »
I agree with you partly IceStorm. Yes I will try with much smaller battery, I already bought the 9v NiCd to try out.

My disagreement is with the calculation of how big the battery should be. 42 days that a 5amp/h can run is theoretical but never pratical WITHOUT any voltage drop. I can see voltage dropping for 5ma and also NOT see the voltage drop for the same 5ma depending only on the changes on the configuration. I agree smaller the battery it will be faster to test but not necessarily to see the effect. I can see the voltage dropping with a bad configuration while not dropping at all with a good configuration. The battery must be recharging. May be not enough to pass the initial voltage (although gadetmall has done it).

What I am saying is that you can test this phenomena now with a 100amp/h or 5amp/h battery just fine. It is not about discharging the battery fully to its full 100 hour at 1amp or 10 thousand hours at 1 mili-amp. It is about dropping 0.01v in 1 day or less or not dropping at all in days at 5 ma.

Fausto.



Hi Fausto,
                 
                Another thing who can play alot, is to know what type of charge the battery take when you run your setup.I made some experiment long time ago with the full bedini cap setup. What ive found interesting is when i used realy low capacitor , like 0.1uF, the voltage of the charging batterie was climbing realy realy fast , after 3 hour of charging i let the batterie the time to stabilize. 24 Hour later the voltage was 13.4. i found interresting to see a voltage like that because i had drain the battery to 11.5v before recharging it. Ive put a load on that battery to discharge it under the c20 rules and found it droped instantly to 12.3 volt, it ran for about 40 minute untile it reach 11.5v.

This experiment is easly replicable , there nothing special in the setup but it show clearly that a battery can show a voltage who is realy not representative of what is inside the battery, that can be realy misleading. Its like a static charge.

Best Regards,
IceStorm

Offline Hoppy

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #235 on: March 05, 2009, 12:11:51 AM »
Hi Fausto,
                 
                Another thing who can play alot, is to know what type of charge the battery take when you run your setup.I made some experiment long time ago with the full bedini cap setup. What ive found interesting is when i used realy low capacitor , like 0.1uF, the voltage of the charging batterie was climbing realy realy fast , after 3 hour of charging i let the batterie the time to stabilize. 24 Hour later the voltage was 13.4. i found interresting to see a voltage like that because i had drain the battery to 11.5v before recharging it. Ive put a load on that battery to discharge it under the c20 rules and found it droped instantly to 12.3 volt, it ran for about 40 minute untile it reach 11.5v.

This experiment is easly replicable , there nothing special in the setup but it show clearly that a battery can show a voltage who is realy not representative of what is inside the battery, that can be realy misleading. Its like a static charge.

Best Regards,
IceStorm

This is an interesting effect also seen with direct HV charging from an energiser with a considerable power level. The battery is highly pressured because there is little rest period between pulses which I think has the effect of highly charging the electrolyte which can result in a high terminal voltage. When this pressure is released there is a marked drop back in voltage and this continues under load until what is termed the 'surface charge' sometimes termed 'fluffy charge' is drawn off to leave 'plate charge' or 'deep charge'. Bedini advocates using any surface charge as soon as possible before it naturally dissipates over a period of time as it effectively represents capacity gain if it can be effectively transferred to a load.

By using larger caps the capacitor more effectively buffers the battery from the pulsed high potential pressure resulting in the charge being more efficiently absorbed by the plates as the capacitor transfers a higher current level at a lower voltage. Bedini advocates just a few volts above terminal voltage for best efficiency cap pulsing. The high voltage, high pressure pulsing is I think good for fast conditioning - desulfating but not for efficient charging. The Bedini 1 ohm test is a means to ensure that the coil discharge power level is not too excessive in energy level to cause inneficient charging. A slow and steady increase in voltage with little drop back is the preferred charging method to ensure best conditioning and battery life.

Hoppy

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #235 on: March 05, 2009, 12:11:51 AM »
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Offline plengo

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #236 on: March 05, 2009, 04:11:37 AM »
I have a question for my honorable friends:

If I use three 7.2v NiMh in series to run this circuit consuming about 7 to 9ma, how long do you guys expect this to run to be considered above COP of 1 ?

I need three batteries because my circuit is tunned for around 20 volts and I dont want to change it now.

Is it ok with three batteries like that in series or is it too much too?

The batteries are in the picture.

Please, let me know.

Fausto.

Offline IceStorm

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #237 on: March 05, 2009, 05:12:39 AM »
I have a question for my honorable friends:

If I use three 7.2v NiMh in series to run this circuit consuming about 7 to 9ma, how long do you guys expect this to run to be considered above COP of 1 ?

I need three batteries because my circuit is tunned for around 20 volts and I dont want to change it now.

Is it ok with three batteries like that in series or is it too much too?

The batteries are in the picture.

Please, let me know.

Fausto.

Hi Fausto,

               i think its realy good, in a perfect world your setup should run for about 17 hour (with 3 7.2v in series) so let say you are able to make that even better ,if it run for 24 hour without loosing anything that will be realy great, but dont forget one thing and i think its the most important, put a load on it at the end to discharge the battery to know exaclty how many usuable mA you are able to extract after your 24h run test. if it run the fan for 24 hour and 12 hour on a bleeding resistor for the last discharge that will be a fullproof.

Best Regards,
IceStorm

Offline Goat

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #238 on: March 05, 2009, 05:19:16 AM »
@ Fausto

From what I remember written or mentioned somewhere, the NiMh batteries were NOT recommended in the bedini circuits.

I personally have tried them in a shielded cage and they didn't blow up, but then I didn't get OU with the circuit I was playing with at the time  ;D

That's my 2 cents.

Regards,
Paul

Offline Hoppy

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Re: Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!
« Reply #239 on: March 05, 2009, 09:11:53 AM »
I have had no problems charging Nicad's or NiMh batteries with Bedini energisers but as to whether they fully benefit from Bedini charging in terms of capacity gain through the conversion of negative energy, I have no idea. To establish the absence of the charging effect using other types of battery would IMO be as important as observing it because it narrows down the search for the cause of the effect.

Hoppy


 

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