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2nd "law" violations => Heat to mechanical energy conversion => Topic started by: Bulbz on January 09, 2009, 01:55:35 PM

Title: Water circulation without an electric pump.
Post by: Bulbz on January 09, 2009, 01:55:35 PM
I just needed to know... in the attached image, if I was to keep the chamber (or plastic drain pipe) heated by the Sun or by some other means, and kept the bottom chamber(the one that's immersed in the consumer water tank)... Would it make the working fluid circulate, without the use of an electric pump ?.
Title: Re: Water circulation without an electric pump.
Post by: fritznien on January 09, 2009, 08:09:39 PM
i don't think it will do anything. however i have seen a heat driven pump on a solar collector.  a trip to a solar energy store is in order. you might want to rethink the plastic pipe, stagnation temps can be nasty.
Title: Re: Water circulation without an electric pump.
Post by: Bulbz on January 10, 2009, 01:30:01 AM
It's just a concept for the time being, although I do think I may need to re-think the entry and exit positions of the hoses.
Title: Re: Water circulation without an electric pump.
Post by: Yucca on January 10, 2009, 02:42:14 AM
Hi Bulbz,

Your design will work with a few tweaks, you need to raise the storage tank over the collector to take advantage of the natural convection flow:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermosiphon

The only downside to these designs is when roofmounting you don´t want to much weight on some types of wooden roof joists so a tank on such a roof must be kept quite small.
Title: Re: Water circulation without an electric pump.
Post by: Bulbz on January 10, 2009, 09:12:36 AM
Thanks for that wave of encouragement Yucca  ;)...

BTW, does anybody know what makes this tick ? http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uK3XYJLQsZ4 (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uK3XYJLQsZ4)
Title: Re: Water circulation without an electric pump.
Post by: spinner on January 10, 2009, 11:38:13 AM
I just needed to know... in the attached image, if I was to keep the chamber (or plastic drain pipe) heated by the Sun or by some other means, and kept the bottom chamber(the one that's immersed in the consumer water tank)... Would it make the working fluid circulate, without the use of an electric pump ?.
Your design would work, but very poorly.... As it is a direct conflict with the common convection principle (the basics of the fluid/thermal move mech. in the central heating), the only mechanism working in favour would be a (small quantity) expansions of the hot side with a combination of a semi- valve...
A kind of thermal engine....

So, either you'll use a principle mentioned by Yucca (thermal siphon by an elevated heat exchanger), or you'll use a circulating pump to force the thermal flow to the temp. exchanger unit below your sun collectors....

Cheers!